Considering that 3-9 season included a loss to Sac State and was preceded by a 5-7 season.

I say no because I don't think the next guy was going to be Pete Carroll, Les Miles, Saban, or Haurbaugh and like would have been a step down.

Depends on if you enjoy winning huge games. Then no.

MR is king of reinventing his teams and shocking the world. This current uptick should be no surprise to those who follow PAC football. His trend is to coach up lesser talent and to win against odds. We don't enjoy the same trend.

bigcocoon007;841957972 said:

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Considering that 3-9 season included a loss to Sac State and was preceded by a 5-7 season.

I say no because I don't think the next guy was going to be Pete Carroll, Les Miles, Saban, or Haurbaugh and like would have been a step down.

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If you are considering a comparison between Tedford and Riley

Riley only had 2 bad seasons. Tedford has had 5
Riley has beaten SC more recently
Riley can beat a team that is favored (when is the last time we did that? Stanfurd 09? That is more our players than tedford. We always get jacked up for stanfurd)
Riley can get players to play above their potential

The most maddenig thing is the fact that tedford plays not to lose, and loses

Not with the money he makes, the facilities and lack of swag Oregon State has. That's their lot but our lot is much different when you invest this kind of coin in your head coach and facilities.

Phantomfan;841957976 said:

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Depends on if you enjoy winning huge games. Then no.

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They didn't win ANY huge games in 2010 and 2011.

I just think its interesting how they are off to a great start after being horrible and Riley being on the "Hot Seat" last season.

Bigcocoon for AD!!!

Arcadiabear;841957999 said:

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If you are considering a comparison between Tedford and Riley

Riley only had 2 bad seasons. Tedford has had 5
Riley has beaten SC more recently
Riley can beat a team that is favored (when is the last time we did that? Stanfurd 09? That is more our players than tedford. We always get jacked up for stanfurd)
Riley can get players to play above their potential

The most maddenig thing is the fact that tedford plays not to lose, and loses

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How?
Riley had a season in 2010 (3-9) worse than anything we have had under Tedford and in 2011, both teams were equal (5-7) which was Tedford's worst season

Oregon State doesn't have a half billion dollar tab to pick up. So yes, they can afford subpar years. We literally cannot.

STAY THE COURSE!!!

Arcadiabear;841957999 said:

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If you are considering a comparison between Tedford and Riley

Riley only had 2 bad seasons. Tedford has had 5
Riley has beaten SC more recently
Riley can beat a team that is favored (when is the last time we did that? Stanfurd 09? That is more our players than tedford. We always get jacked up for stanfurd)
Riley can get players to play above their potential

The most maddenig thing is the fact that tedford plays not to lose, and loses

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Pretty much all of your points are subjective and an outsider's perspective. Here are the facts: Riley has never lost fewer than 4 games a season and he hasn't beaten Oregon since 2006.

Riley rightfully gets a ton of slack at OSU for the reasons mentioned above. The Beavers also never have much depth. While their first string can hang with anybody, injuries can doom their season (see last year and 2010).

bigcocoon007;841958005 said:

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How?
Riley had a season in 2010 (3-9) worse than anything we have had under Tedford and in 2011, both teams were equal (5-7) which was Tedford's worst season

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What about the limitations of his recruits and players? My point was not that Riley has had better seasons. But he gets the most out of his players

Give riley our players and i have no doubt we would be at least 2-2 if not 3-1

Just look at guys drafted and guys that stick in the big league. We have the best punter in the last 15 years and we ended up doin rugby punts

OSU has also been more relevant than we have much more recently. They will be ranked next week. Where are we? Bottom of Pac 12 right next to colorado

is this another rationale we should keep the gum chewing tadpole on the sideline?

no he shouldn't be fired. he makes a lot less money and a lot less nfl talent

BerlinerBaer;841958026 said:

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Pretty much all of your points are subjective and an outsider's perspective. Here are the facts: Riley has never lost fewer than 4 games a season and he hasn't beaten Oregon since 2006.

Riley rightfully gets a ton of slack at OSU for the reasons mentioned above. The Beavers also never have much depth. While their first string can hang with anybody, injuries can doom their season (see last year and 2010).

---

How about this:

Since 2005:
Cal football players drafted and still playing currently in NFL: 33
OSU football players drafted and still playing currently in NFL: 16 (+4 undrafted)

I know recruiting rankings dont mean much, but according to ESPN.
Since 2005, number of players >= a 78 ranking (usually means 4 stars):

Cal: 4 in 2006, 3 in 2007, 6 in 2008, 6 in 2009, 12! in 2010, 15! in 2011, 9 in 2012
OSU: 2 in 2009, 2 in 2010, 6 in 2012



We are out recruiting OSU, no doubt about that. We have better players than OSU, nobody will argue that either.

Yet Riley gets a lot of his guys to the NFL. Most important, the record for the past years:

Riley:
2004: 7-5
2005: 5-6
2006: 9-4 ranked #21
2007: 9-4 ranked #25
2008: 9-4 ranked #24
2009: 8-5
2010: 5-7
2011: 3-9

Tedford:
2004: 10-2 ranked #9
2005: 8-4 ranked #25
2006: 10-3 ranked #14
2007: 7-6
2008: 9-4 ranked #25
2009: 8-5
2010: 5-7
2011: 7-6

Shouldn't we expect Tedford's record to be much better?

(side note: i have absolutely no problem with tedford till 2009. But recently we all noticed that he has "lost it" and the tedford since 2009 has gotten blown out consistently, play bad QBs and can't win the big games)

Since 2007, Riley has had mostly equal success (save last season) and sometimes better record. This year they are 2-0 with 2 wins against top 25, while we are 1-3 with 2 loses against top 25

BerlinerBaer;841958026 said:

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Pretty much all of your points are subjective and an outsider's perspective. Here are the facts: Riley has never lost fewer than 4 games a season and he hasn't beaten Oregon since 2006.

Riley rightfully gets a ton of slack at OSU for the reasons mentioned above. The Beavers also never have much depth. While their first string can hang with anybody, injuries can doom their season (see last year and 2010).

---

First off, small quibble.....we beat Oregon in 2007 AND 2006. And yes, we regularly beat SC....See 2000, 2006, 2008, 2010.

Some background.....Riley last year decided early on to sacrifice that season so we could have the one we are having now.....Went with a youth movement...obviously saw something in Mannion, who is soon to be the next NFL QB out of good 'ol OSU, which supposedly doesn't get good talent...hmmm..

Riley has an eye for talent to fit his system....also, the players like the guy. Can't say that's the case for Cal and Tedford....(the guy seriously needs to lighten up!)

The scary thing is that OSU is starting mostly sophomores and juniors....I expect another Rose Bowl run within the next couple years.

You ARE correct, however, about our depth....we simply cannot afford injuries like some other schools....see 2010 as example,, and 2011 for that matter.

bigcocoon007;841958005 said:

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How?
Riley had a season in 2010 (3-9) worse than anything we have had under Tedford and in 2011, both teams were equal (5-7) which was Tedford's worst season

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Tedford hatters => Riley apologists

Arcadiabear;841958063 said:

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How about this:

Since 2005:
Cal football players drafted and still playing currently in NFL: 33
OSU football players drafted and still playing currently in NFL: 16 (+4 undrafted)

I know recruiting rankings dont mean much, but according to ESPN.
Since 2005, number of players >= a 78 ranking (usually means 4 stars):

Cal: 4 in 2006, 3 in 2007, 6 in 2008, 6 in 2009, 12! in 2010, 15! in 2011, 9 in 2012
OSU: 2 in 2009, 2 in 2010, 6 in 2012



We are out recruiting OSU, no doubt about that. We have better players than OSU, nobody will argue that either.

Yet Riley gets a lot of his guys to the NFL. Most important, the record for the past years:

Riley:
2004: 7-5
2005: 5-6
2006: 9-4 ranked #21
2007: 9-4 ranked #25
2008: 9-4 ranked #24
2009: 8-5
2010: 5-7
2011: 3-9

Tedford:
2004: 10-2 ranked #9
2005: 8-4 ranked #25
2006: 10-3 ranked #14
2007: 7-6
2008: 9-4 ranked #25
2009: 8-5
2010: 5-7
2011: 7-6

Shouldn't we expect Tedford's record to be much better?

(side note: i have absolutely no problem with tedford till 2009. But recently we all noticed that he has "lost it" and the tedford since 2009 has gotten blown out consistently, play bad QBs and can't win the big games)

Since 2007, Riley has had mostly equal success (save last season) and sometimes better record. This year they are 2-0 with 2 wins against top 25, while we are 1-3 with 2 loses against top 25

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I don't know if this is the greatest way to measure talent for college players in a college system.

This argument pretty much falls apart when you look at Oregon's success and how many players they've put in the NFL. If this correlation were true, then Oregon should very much be a middle-of-the-road team.

I'm sure there are a lot of ADs who would have let him go. And it does depend on how much you are investing in building a winning football team and how big and vocal your fan base is. For all I know there are vocal Beav fans that want Riley fired (probably not so vocal this year). From the outside there are probably many people who still think Tedford is a good coach who just has bad players right now. Until Tedford resembles the old Tedford I will think he should be fired. Having some turnaround years like Riley sometimes does would certainly help his cause. I just don't see Tedford doing this, it is not his style to coach-up a team for unexpected brilliance. For some reason Riley can do this.

Forget everything except the answer to the following question...

Could the Beavers lure a better coach to Corvallis to replace Riley if they let him go?

If the answer is no, they should keep him. If the answer is yes, they should let him go.

We saw what happened at Arizona when they let Tomey go, they had no plan in place to find a better coach and they hired a guy that was worse than Tomey and were lousy for years.

Th moral of the story - don't let a guy go unless you have a solid plan in place to find a better coach.

freshfunk;841958090 said:

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I don't know if this is the greatest way to measure talent for college players in a college system.

This argument pretty much falls apart when you look at Oregon's success and how many players they've put in the NFL. If this correlation were true, then Oregon should very much be a middle-of-the-road team.

---

Actually. That enhances my argument. Oregon is a system team. They might not have the best players (though their recruiting has really taken off in the last few years). But Chip is a master at getting the best from his players. They anually over achieve based on his players.

To invalidate my argument. You need to find a team with excellent talents but a bad record. Looking around the pac 12. Let me give u one. UCLA
They annually underachieve. However, their coach got fired and they look better. We look like we are on the same boat at this point

So we should strive to be like Oregon St. That's awesome.

bigcocoon007;841958005 said:

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How?
Riley had a season in 2010 (3-9) worse than anything we have had under Tedford and in 2011, both teams were equal (5-7) which was Tedford's worst season

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You mean - worse than any Tedford season... until now. When we finish 2-10 with a surprising win over Washington, is that enough to save his job? Cal will be decided underdogs in EVERY game from here on out, with the possible exception of Wazzu, and you know the house of horrors Martin Stadium was for Cal from 1978 until the new millenum, right?

:headbang

Actually Cal is favored against ASU and will probably be favored against Utah, Arizona, WSU and perhaps UW. All of those teams are in worse shape than us with many disappointed fans and little hope for a bowl game.

bigcocoon007;841957972 said:

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Considering that 3-9 season included a loss to Sac State and was preceded by a 5-7 season.

I say no because I don't think the next guy was going to be Pete Carroll, Les Miles, Saban, or Haurbaugh and like would have been a step down.

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Give me a break. Riley doesn't get anywhere near the recruits we get. In fact, talent in Corvallis is near the bottom of the conference. 3-9 was just 1 year with poor talent. Usually he gets about 8 or 9 wins with poor talent.

So, to sum up... JT has been underperforming his talent for 5 years while overall, Riley has been overperforming his talent.

But, in answer to your question, I think they should fire Riley so that we can hire him.

Riley can coach ... flat out coach.

Great evaluator of talent. Takes 2 stars players and maximizes their potential

tenplay;841958315 said:

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Actually Cal is favored against ASU and will probably be favored against Utah, Arizona, WSU and perhaps UW. All of those teams are in worse shape than us with many disappointed fans and little hope for a bowl game.

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Last I saw ASU was favored and Cal doesn't play Arizona this year, but if that game was on the schedule, Arizona would be favored, even in Berkeley.

Arcadiabear;841958256 said:

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Actually. That enhances my argument. Oregon is a system team. They might not have the best players (though their recruiting has really taken off in the last few years). But Chip is a master at getting the best from his players. They anually over achieve based on his players.

To invalidate my argument. You need to find a team with excellent talents but a bad record. Looking around the pac 12. Let me give u one. UCLA
They annually underachieve. However, their coach got fired and they look better. We look like we are on the same boat at this point

---

I agree with you that recruiting to your system is the way to go.

But your argument seemed to be saying that there's a correlation between performance and the number of guys sent to the NFL. Ergo I pointed out Oregon.

Better yet look at our #1 and #2 QB. These are guys who belong in two very different systems.

I would trade Tedford for Riley in a heartbeat.

Brainsmile;841958404 said:

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Riley can coach ... flat out coach.

Great evaluator of talent. Takes 2 stars players and maximizes their potential

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Easy to say now after they are 2-0 and ranked. Wasn't so easy to say last year..

Nonetheless, I agree he is a good coach. Just think it's interesting there was a realistic chance he would not be the coach this year after 3-9 and 5-7 the last two years.

http://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/Nobody-foresaw-Oregon-State-s-success-3888216.php

Looks like Riley himself thought he might have been fired. It is refreshing to hear a coach just answer questions like a regular human.

I am a Stanford fan so please don't get mad if I offer an unbiased view here.

Comparing Riley and Tedford is apples and oranges. They are both decent, classy men but the programs are way different.

Riley is probably at the worst program in the Pac 12, with the possible exception of WSU. Corvalis is in the middle of nowhere and OSU will never be able to compete with Oregon in name recognition or resources. Riley makes that program better than what it should be. I don't know how else to say it. If you look at the recruits they can potentially get (2 and 3-star guys), he coaches them to close to their full potential and is able to stay competitive in the Pac 12.

Compare that with Tedford and Cal. I really like and respect Tedford. Again, he is a class guy. But I don't think he is a very good football coach. He has a bad track record of getting success out of his talent. Berkeley has none of the disadvantages that OSU has. It is the biggest program in the Bay Area and it gets great Northern California recruits. Cal should be outperforming OSU on a year-in, year-out basis given these advantages.

Cardinal96;841958789 said:

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I am a Stanford fan so please don't get mad if I offer an unbiased view here.

Comparing Riley and Tedford is apples and oranges. They are both decent, classy men but the programs are way different.

Riley is probably at the worst program in the Pac 12, with the possible exception of WSU. Corvalis is in the middle of nowhere and OSU will never be able to compete with Oregon in name recognition or resources. Riley makes that program better than what it should be. I don't know how else to say it. If you look at the recruits they can potentially get (2 and 3-star guys), he coaches them to close to their full potential and is able to stay competitive in the Pac 12.

Compare that with Tedford and Cal. I really like and respect Tedford. Again, he is a class guy. But I don't think he is a very good football coach. He has a bad track record of getting success out of his talent. Berkeley has none of the disadvantages that OSU has. It is the biggest program in the Bay Area and it gets great Northern California recruits. Cal should be outperforming OSU on a year-in, year-out basis given these advantages.

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R90, take this fool aside and give him a severe tongue lashing. How dare you call our Tedford not very good.

BTW, the way this works is that as an opponent of Cal you are suppose to say our coach is really good but just going through a rough patch right now and that with a contract extension he will right the Cal football ship. For examples see our posts during the Teevans years.

ArcadiaBear - agree with all your posts on this thread. It is a pleasure to read them.

Cardinal: I agree.

However, it's still early in the season. Lets see where the teams end up come December.

Also, from a long term perspective, Riley and JT have similar records. One could expect JT should have a better one.

I still think the tree sitter years did some damage to the program. Look at the recruits then vs the recruits now.

I do think that we have a lot of talent being left on the bench. I don't know if its so much seniority based playing vs running an offensive system that is too complex for younger kids to just come in and run.

We have young talent playing this year that I think will make a big difference as the season goes on. Treggs, Harper, Tagaloa, Bigelow to name a few.

As you can see, though, QB is questionable and that makes a big diff. We're also down 2 starters at OL. Look at what happened to SC when their starting center was out.

bigcocoon007;841958002 said:

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They didn't win ANY huge games in 2010 and 2011.


Riley seems like a very good coach whose coaching with one hand tied behind his back recruiting-wise. Wonder if he'd be interested in trying his hand at a school with awesome new facilities and a better recruiting draw. I hear that school might be looking for a new coach...