Yeah, definitely beware of these coaches.

4-8
5-7
8-5
12-1 - Only good year, and it involved one of the best Quarterbacks the school has ever had, and a guy that many people believe has a bright NFL future.

Anyone know what happened to that Jim Harbaugh guy?

CalBearRJ;842007021 said:

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Yeah, definitely beware of these coaches.

4-8
5-7
8-5
12-1 - Only good year, and it involved one of the best Quarterbacks the school has ever had, and a guy that many people believe has a bright NFL future.

Anyone know what happened to that Jim Harbaugh guy?

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Harbaugh is an ex-NFL QB and his legitimate experience in a tougher, faster arena helped him shape the effective college offense we see at Stanford, one that is counter-intuitive in a Spread World. (likewise current Stanford HC Shaw also has NFL experience and that's now his edge over NFL-pretenders running their so-called "pro-style" offenses).

Even during Harbaugh's down years early on at Stanford, a neutral CFB Fan could see the method to his madness (heavy lineups with TEs and H-backs even OLM, unbalanced lines, counter-running to weak side after setting up a strongside, etc.) and that's why it must have been forgivable to most/all Tree Fans that knew Football. He had a plan and an edge and all you needed was some patience to see those plans come into fruition.

Bad early record and all, that's what separates Harbaugh from the run-of-the-mill, look good in the WAC clowns mentioned in this thread -- his plan and where he came from.

Our Domicile;842007665 said:

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Harbaugh is an ex-NFL QB and his legitimate experience in a tougher, faster arena helped him shape the effective college offense we see at Stanford, one that is counter-intuitive in a Spread World. (likewise current Stanford HC Shaw also has NFL experience and that's now his edge over NFL-pretenders running their so-called "pro-style" offenses).

Even during Harbaugh's down years early on at Stanford, a neutral CFB Fan could see the method to his madness (heavy lineups with TEs and H-backs even OLM, unbalanced lines, counter-running to weak side after setting up a strongside, etc.) and that's why it must have been forgivable to most/all Tree Fans that knew Football. He had a plan and an edge and all you needed was some patience to see those plans come into fruition.

Bad early record and all, that's what separates Harbaugh from the run-of-the-mill, look good in the WAC clowns mentioned in this thread -- his plan and where he came from.

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The only point I was making was that the OP's exact same criticisms can be leveled on successful coaches. If there's a reason to dislike MacIntyre, Dykes and Andersen it's not because they got lucky with a great QB. Sometimes great QB and good coaching go hand in hand.

To be clear, I'm not necessarily defending these coaches either, I just think the original criticism is particularly weak.

CalBearRJ;842007720 said:

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The only point I was making was that the OP's exact same criticisms can be leveled on successful coaches. If there's a reason to dislike MacIntyre, Dykes and Andersen it's not because they got lucky with a great QB. Sometimes great QB and good coaching go hand in hand.

To be clear, I'm not necessarily defending these coaches either, I just think the original criticism is particularly weak.

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Granted. I see where you're coming from. Your point is valid.

I still think Harbaugh is an exception because of his NFL background alone, but I actually started hearing about Harbaugh when he was a successful HC at the University of San Diego (FCS). At that school he did produce what some may consider a "pre-Luck QB" in Josh Johnson (Marshawn's cousin), a QB worthy enough to get drafted into the NFL so, in Harbaugh's case, we see somebody who found success at more than one school and with more than one QB.

Of course, the WAC HCs mentioned in this thread can say they have developed more than one QB on their resume, but personally, I'm wary of the WAC HCs mentioned in this thread simply because of the competition level in their conference and feel Cal could find better candidates elsewhere, on a more national scale.

Our Domicile;842007757 said:

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Granted. I see where you're coming from. Your point is valid.

I still think Harbaugh is an exception because of his NFL background alone, but I actually started hearing about Harbaugh when he was a successful HC at the University of San Diego (FCS). At that school he did produce what some may consider a "pre-Luck QB" in Josh Johnson (Marshawn's cousin), a QB worthy enough to get drafted into the NFL so, in Harbaugh's case, we see somebody who found success at more than one school and with more than one QB.

Of course, the WAC HCs mentioned in this thread can say they have developed more than one QB on their resume, but personally, I'm wary of the WAC HCs mentioned in this thread simply because of the competition level in their conference and feel Cal could find better candidates elsewhere, on a more national scale.

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Harbaugh is quite possibly a once in a generation coach. If he continues to have this type of success with the Niners, he's set himself up to be considered among the best coaches ever. He's pretty much the definition of "exception." Chances are, Cal's not finding his equal.

Frankly, I don't know who Cal should hire. None of us really do. Many of us poked fun at Stanfurd when Harbaugh was hired. I also don't think there is any evidence that Doeren (his signature win is a loss to Iowa?) is superior to the other options, and anyone who thinks otherwise is going to overreact to whatever coach is hired. Speculation is all well and good, but speaking with relative certainty about coaching prospects is a little silly.

Our Domicile;842007757 said:

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Of course, the WAC HCs mentioned in this thread can say they have developed more than one QB on their resume, but personally, I'm wary of the WAC HCs mentioned in this thread simply because of the competition level in their conference and feel Cal could find better candidates elsewhere, on a more national scale.

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It's unfair to talk down these coaches just because of the conference their team plays in, as if that's their fault. As a head coach, you gotta start somewhere. Tons of good BCS level coaches got their start in the non-AQ leagues and some even in FCS.

The fact is that the coaches in the WAC are all on roughly equal footing as far as resources and overall talent are concerned. There is no reason to think the better coaches in this league couldn't succeed in the Pac 12. They would have access to more resources for assistants and have the ability to recruit for a program with a far bigger draw.

Both Andersen and Dykes have taken their squad of 2*/3* WAC players and upset a few BCS teams this year.

BerlinerBaer;842008335 said:

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It's unfair to talk down these coaches just because of the conference their team plays in, as if that's their fault. As a head coach, you gotta start somewhere. Tons of good BCS level coaches got their start in the non-AQ leagues and some even in FCS.

The fact is that the coaches in the WAC are all on roughly equal footing as far as resources and overall talent are concerned. There is no reason to think the better coaches in this league couldn't succeed in the Pac 12. They would have access to more resources for assistants and have the ability to recruit for a program with a far bigger draw.

Both Andersen and Dykes have taken their squad of 2*/3* WAC players and upset a few BCS teams this year.

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That describes Pat Hill back in the day. Why isn't he a candidate?

BerlinerBaer;842008335 said:

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It's unfair to talk down these coaches just because of the conference their team plays in, as if that's their fault. As a head coach, you gotta start somewhere. Tons of good BCS level coaches got their start in the non-AQ leagues and some even in FCS.

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Exactly. No one gets their first head coach job at USC. You start off on a lower level like Kiffin and the Raiders, or whatshisname with New England. In all this talk about the next Urban Meyer, we need to remember that he came from Bowling Green, and was at Utah for just a flash. Previous Ohio St sweater vest was at Youngstown St. Where was Chip Kelly from? And ND Kelly came from Cincy, which was just a brief stop on his way up after Dantonio got his HC experience for a couple of years before going to Mich St. Let's get someone up and coming, not a retread like richrod. San Diegos, SJSU's, NIUs are where people cut their teeth as a HC. If they are good, they can handle the increased competition. Much better risk in my book than a coordinator at a big time program but who has not been a HC. Let's face it. JT never really figured out how to be a HC, or didn't want to. He is a coordinator.

The three WAC coaches are of interest because they turned their programs around from abject losers to winners. They did this by doing things all good managers do: recognize and recruit talent, motivate and develop a plan and execute. And that is what a coach is: a manager-of 100 people or so with five times the support any corporate manager of a 100 people would receive. And the turnaround argument is also true of Franklin at Vanderbilt. Why would we hire a guy who is .500 in a major conference and lost to Georgia 48-3? Because he obviously came into a horrible situation and changed the culture. Few coaches win because they are truly innovative. They win because they recognize and recruit talent and take advantage of it. Those are scalable.

And the argument that they are only good because of flash in the pan QBs is silly. If that was an argument, the 49ers would have been crazy to hire Harbaugh who only won big with the qb of a lifetime.

Harbaugh won big at san diego as well. If were going to hire some small school coach, he should have dominated at that level.

Ok for all you macintyre supporters, you need to explain to me exactly what it is you like about him. Cause I'm not seeing it. Is it his schemes? His leadership ability? The way he uses his personnel? What?

I get the feeling that most people just see him having an 8-2 record and saying "well if he can do that with Sjs imagine what he can do at cal". Yes it's true he will have more talent and resources at cal, but he also won't get to play Texas state or nmst anymore. Again, Mac has yet to beat a decent team yet.

And the comparison to harbaugh is poor. It was clear after a few years that harbaugh was a star and had special qualities. He had a unique offensive system. He was able to hire exceptional assistants. He was a former nfl coach and could teach qbs. And it was clear he was a leader of men.
All these traits were clear when he was at Stanford.

So again, someone tell me what traits you see in Mac that make him special.

Harbaugh also came from a coaching family and he played at Michigan. You have to hand it to Stanford for hiring him. They out foxed everyone on that one.

++

ducky23;842008471 said:

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Ok for all you macintyre supporters, you need to explain to me exactly what it is you like about him. Cause I'm not seeing it. Is it his schemes? His leadership ability? The way he uses his personnel? What?

I get the feeling that most people just see him having an 8-2 record and saying "well if he can do that with Sjs imagine what he can do at cal". Yes it's true he will have more talent and resources at cal, but he also won't get to play Texas state or nmst anymore. Again, Mac has yet to beat a decent team yet.

And the comparison to harbaugh is poor. It was clear after a few years that harbaugh was a star and had special qualities. He had a unique offensive system. He was able to hire exceptional assistants. He was a former nfl coach and could teach qbs. And it was clear he was a leader of men.
All these traits were clear when he was at Stanford.

So again, someone tell me what traits you see in Mac that make him special.

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So we've convinced you of the other two guys?

As for Mac, I'll say he's the weakest of the 3, and I'm not sure how well he can coach on gameday, but he's winning at SJSU primarily on recruiting. It would be fair to say that we could expect him to recruit well at Cal.