okaydo;842019716 said:

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Just to reiterate:

31 hours elapsed between the time I received this PM and the time I posted it. I was seriously considering ignoring it, but then I found out others had received it, and I consulted with them, including Cal_Fan2 and NYCGOBEARS and several others.

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To continue to disparage players is really low regardless of their actions. We had a coach and staff paid many millions of dollars to manage them. Blame him. Leave these young men alone.

BerlinerBaer;842019021 said:

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The thing that worries me is if the declining APR we've seen so far is just the tip of the iceberg. We only have data from the players who came in before 2005.

I also worry it will be too late for the future coach to prevent sanctions. :headbang

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That's my worry. If Allen & Maynard (along with others) leave this year without graduating, doesn't that hurt our academic ratings and thus lead us closer to sanctions?

ayetee11;842019097 said:

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Definitely, but still waiting to here why someone is trying so hard to prove who their son is and what is the benefit of sending a pm to posters?

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I don't know if the allegations are true (though my hunch is that many of them are based in truth though exaggerated due to the parent being disgruntled by lack of playing time for his/her son as well as the miserable 3-9 record compounded by blow-out losses), but perhaps the parent is "outing" the situation to be sure the problem is corrected by new staff.

GoBears58;842020325 said:

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This...

Tedford deserved the boot for playing Hack Maynard for two full seasons when everyone knew he didn't belong on a D2 squad.

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I think Maynard was our best QB and put us in the best position to win. I'm not defending Tedford, because in the end he deserved to be let go for failing to recruit a QB who was capable of being among the top 3-4 in the conference.

MiltyBear;842020178 said:

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MB is probably the closest first hand source that we have on this board. Okaydo has also never posted anything that was deliberately false.

Basically, it doesn't matter what the details were, but all signs point to a lost locker room. Maynard/Allen situation has also been a huge source of controversy, and it definitely is not as simple as Tedford just being stubborn. I see it akin to a fund manager screwing up something and then digging his own grave to cover it. It's hard to tell what exactly was screw up and when the hole started, but it's painfully obvious to see that something was very very very wrong.

People that are saying this is pure hearsay has their own agenda and beliefs. The fact that they keep attacking the exact words or identity of the source means that they have no interest in contemplating about a Tedford who is less than perfect in their world. The exact facts may be exaggerated or the whole thing might even be a hoax, but there's been too many separate incidents, posts, and a look at the product on the field, to deny that there was nothing lacking in Tedford's leadership. Nearly all of the problems can be pointed to management, and people like freshfunk, beezle, and shaden just refuse to even consider it.

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To say I refuse to consider is a gross exaggeration and simplification. If you can't think in nuance that's fine. Don't. But don't put your simpleton thinking on others and say its a refusal to acknowledge something.

People want to create their own realities and will only look at proof that supports that reality. They ignore all else. Look at how some Republicans thought they were going to sweep in the last election. When you only pay attention to the sources you want even the wrong picture can seem so clear.

I can see how there would be team issues but there's a difference between some bitter players and a "lost team" or "divided locker room." Like I've said already, she me a 3-9 team and ill show you controversy. Also, naturally teams form tribes (defense, offense, OL) that may look like a "divided team" but isn't. Given that a lot of blame and praise goes to the QB I wouldn't be surprised if some players wanted to see a new QB (after all many of the fans did too.. Not a stretch).

I also look at the public statement by our players instead of second hand PMs from a player's parent playing telephone.

MiltyBear;842020179 said:

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This is a necessary closure to the Tedford era. He was fired not without some controversy from the media and supporters. This is necessary to give the fan base some explanations and closures so that they can give the next coach, and Cal football, a new start come next season.

Some people have wanted him gone since 2007, but it didn't happen until now, so you're going to have a lot of long time grudges held. I think people, and myself included, should get to hear some of the truths and validate and move towards closure.

In the end, Tedford was a flawed coach who did some great things at Cal, until those flaws finally overcame him. We will give him a statue, or name a field after him soon enough, but he was definitely not without fault. No one is purely black and white. Nixon is still remembered fondly by some. Heck I bet even Hitler himself can still gather quite a following to this day. I believe Tedford did much more good than bad, but he still has his faults.

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Closure?

Why didn't you just ask for a hug? It's not you, it's me. We wouldn't have made a good couple anyway. The new girlfriend is uglier anyway.

If you're holding a grudge now (which would be ridiculous and childish) then no amount of mudslinging is going to make that grudge go away. But go ahead and tear people down if it makes you feel good about yourself.

NYCGOBEARS;842020352 said:

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To continue to disparage players is really low regardless of their actions. We had a coach and staff paid many millions of dollars to manage them. Blame him. Leave these young men alone.

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And how does spreading one alleged parent's message about what he or she thinks happened going to accomplish that? The season is over, Tedford is finally gone and we can look forward to wiping the slate clean in 2013. Unfortunately the TMZ contingent on BI doesn't want to let that happen.

Etchebeary;842020196 said:

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I agree. In many ways, Tedford's program was like the ostrich that buries its head in the sand. Tedford's mantra seemed to be 'If I can't see the problem, or refuse to acknowledge it, then it isn't there.'

Most disconcerting about the blowout losses or Toshgate in the past 4 years was the lack of any legitimate answers from the coaching staff. Just saying "I want to move on and talk about the game this week" or "we just need to work harder and execute" and "I don't want to talk about Tosh anymore, I want to talk about the athletes who did choose us" didn't solve any of the problems. If anything, ignoring them made them worse.

Allowing the rumors and rumblings to come to the surface and finally be out in the open can have a positive cathartic effect on the entire team and Cal community. I'm all for it.

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This seems more a problem withthe fans tha the players. Look at how the players embraced Tosh after the UW game. Contrast that with what fans wanted.

And to sum up the last 19 pages. Cal Football sucked ( or was not very good if " sucked " hurts your feelings ). This was mostly the duties of the HC, which at this time is not employed at Cal anymore. JT ( Mr. Nice Guy ), let them run all over him. next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unit2Sucks;842020414 said:

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And how does spreading one alleged parent's message about what he or she thinks happened going to accomplish that? The season is over, Tedford is finally gone and we can look forward to wiping the slate clean in 2013. Unfortunately the TMZ contingent on BI doesn't want to let that happen.

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Actually, I kind of agree about moving forward. This information is going to be processed through ones bias. I look at it as not too surprising news considering the way the team performed this year. Why should we be surprised that finger pointing is happening inside the program? Mismanagement was obvious.

MB said it best. It should all be taken with a grain of salt. That's what I'm choosing to do. I also however support okaydo releasing the info in the manner that he did. 99% of the stuff on this board is pure conjecture anyway.

NYCGOBEARS;842020423 said:

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99% of the stuff on this board is pure conjecture anyway.

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Wait so Hue Jackson, Mike Bellotti and Andre the Giant aren't the leading candidates for the HC job? And Bob Gregory won't be coming in as our DC with Tedford as our new OC? I can breathe easier then!

:woohoo

Unit2Sucks;842020441 said:

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Wait so Hue Jackson, Mike Bellotti and Andre the Giant aren't the leading candidates for the HC job? And Bob Gregory won't be coming in as our DC with Tedford as our new OC? I can breathe easier then!

:woohoo

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Wilcox is getting the job.

Rotton Robbie;842020405 said:

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Maybe it's just me, but I found this ironic.

College players are never going to come out publicly to talk about team dissent. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

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That's fair. But that's why I think there's a high bar to determining what is dissent.

Compare that to videos of post game wins this season where practicallyeveryoneon the team is giving Tedford a hug and key players saying they respect him. This coincides with what MoragaBear said.

Players may not openly talk about dissent but if they didn't respect him then they wouldn't go out of their way to say so.

Other players said they had Maynard's back (OL not KA) in post game videos. Again, if you don't support the guy why go out of your way and say that?

tequila4kapp;842020249 said:

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No offense but I find a need for closure to be kind of pathetic, at least equally so as those who continue to defend JT. This was an employment decision, not a death. "Closure" starts to come pretty darn close to meaning "just want to prove I was right all along".

My answer to the question: I find this interesting because it potentially provides some insight into how a well respected and talented coach could lose it. No matter how this ended JT is not some Holmoe-esque coach, he does have talent. I also find it valuable because it gives us hope that our turnaround may not be too long in the coming, as potential discipline and morale problems should be relatively easy to fix (as opposed to say, hypothetically, have terrible facilities and an untalented roster).

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Since people have issue with the word closure, you can replace that with simply "moving on". If not, why do you want to find "insight" with this? If everything was cut and dry and done, just don't even bother posting in here about this anymore. Obviously people still care about this issue and getting "insight" into this will help people understand and move on. History often changes with perspective and information, and it is most malleable when history is first being made. Right now people crave information and that is because they do in fact, need "closure", for lack of a better word. No one said it was a life or death situation for anyone personally. However it was close to a life or death situation for the Cal football program to continue with Tedford or not. What are we doing here if not for the fact that we care about Cal football? That is what "closure" means.

freshfunk;842020398 said:

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To say I refuse to consider is a gross exaggeration and simplification. If you can't think in nuance that's fine. Don't. But don't put your simpleton thinking on others and say its a refusal to acknowledge something.

People want to create their own realities and will only look at proof that supports that reality. They ignore all else. Look at how some Republicans thought they were going to sweep in the last election. When you only pay attention to the sources you want even the wrong picture can seem so clear.

I can see how there would be team issues but there's a difference between some bitter players and a "lost team" or "divided locker room." Like I've said already, she me a 3-9 team and ill show you controversy. Also, naturally teams form tribes (defense, offense, OL) that may look like a "divided team" but isn't. Given that a lot of blame and praise goes to the QB I wouldn't be surprised if some players wanted to see a new QB (after all many of the fans did too.. Not a stretch).

I also look at the public statement by our players instead of second hand PMs from a player's parent playing telephone.

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Yes, you refused to consider that Tedford was the problem and instead kept yammering on about how if only Maynard was better or if he wasn't our QB. People have considered for years that it's not Tedford's fault. But after so many changes around Tedford, the only constant is him.

MoragaBear - thank you for clarifying this thread. I believe your take on this situation is correct. Although I certainly can't match your insider position, I can see the validity in your points. Although we have certainly disagreed at times, I trust you and the positions you take on various issues as being your real positions.

MiltyBear;842020563 said:

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Since people have issue with the word closure, you can replace that with simply "moving on". If not, why do you want to find "insight" with this? If everything was cut and dry and done, just don't even bother posting in here about this anymore. Obviously people still care about this issue and getting "insight" into this will help people understand and move on. History often changes with perspective and information, and it is most malleable when history is first being made. Right now people crave information and that is because they do in fact, need "closure", for lack of a better word. No one said it was a life or death situation for anyone personally. However it was close to a life or death situation for the Cal football program to continue with Tedford or not. What are we doing here if not for the fact that we care about Cal football? That is what "closure" means.

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Parse words and try to define closure for me all you want. The essence of my answer revolves around mere curiosity. The essence of those who seek closure is an inability to move on without this information. I find this need somewhat pathetic.

This "parent" has no class and is an attention whore. What good does calling out the coach and players online do? Sounds like sour grapes... Maybe if this parent sent the rigjt message of being a fighter INSTEAD of a winny bi*_h then their kid would start. Only a whimp sends am message to someone else online to tell other. Wtf is this a middle school girls facebook? If I think Cal players suck I say it to their face and own it with my name. This stuff on here is gossip from a pussy to weak and scared to own a damn thing they say! Grow some balls "parent" and own this! Otherwise ur just being a jerk.

jordangoldnbear;842020957 said:

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This "parent" has no class and is an attention whore. What good does calling out the coach and players online do? Sounds like sour grapes... Maybe if this parent sent the rigjt message of being a fighter INSTEAD of a winny bi*_h then their kid would start. Only a whimp sends am message to someone else online to tell other. Wtf is this a middle school girls facebook? If I think Cal players suck I say it to their face and own it with my name. This stuff on here is gossip from a pussy to weak and scared to own a damn thing they say! Grow some balls "parent" and own this! Otherwise ur just being a jerk.

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Call it what you want, but for one Cal fan, I thank the info. I suspected same all along and was in my own way feeling guilty for having such feelings. Well, it is sounding like the brothers played the game to the hilt. I so tire of prima donna athletes (and entertainers/politicians) that I sometimes want to gag.

With that said, do I believe everything said hook/line and sinker? Hell no. But it sure supports what I suspected. I, for one, abhor the antics of the Kobes, Sprewells, Tigers, and even DeSean J. They are all so gifted and such a wasteland of personal integrity. Sounds like KA and ZM may be also in that boat, although ZM does not have the gift other than that accorded to him by his step brother.

jordangoldnbear;842020957 said:

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This "parent" has no class and is an attention whore. What good does calling out the coach and players online do? Sounds like sour grapes... Maybe if this parent sent the rigjt message of being a fighter INSTEAD of a winny bi*_h then their kid would start. Only a whimp sends am message to someone else online to tell other. Wtf is this a middle school girls facebook? If I think Cal players suck I say it to their face and own it with my name. This stuff on here is gossip from a pussy to weak and scared to own a damn thing they say! Grow some balls "parent" and own this! Otherwise ur just being a jerk.

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Need an Rx for some Xanax. Jumping to conclusions. Way overboard. Happy Holidays!!!! See you had 2 dentists post right after you. Not a good sign. Yikes

jordangoldnbear;842020957 said:

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This "parent" has no class and is an attention whore. What good does calling out the coach and players online do? Sounds like sour grapes... Maybe if this parent sent the rigjt message of being a fighter INSTEAD of a winny bi*_h then their kid would start. Only a whimp sends am message to someone else online to tell other. Wtf is this a middle school girls facebook? If I think Cal players suck I say it to their face and own it with my name. This stuff on here is gossip from a pussy to weak and scared to own a damn thing they say! Grow some balls "parent" and own this! Otherwise ur just being a jerk.

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omg wtf lol

ttfn

BearyWhite;842020995 said:

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omg wtf lol

ttfn

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Amy's new handle Beary

jordangoldnbear;842020957 said:

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This "parent" has no class and is an attention whore. What good does calling out the coach and players online do? Sounds like sour grapes... Maybe if this parent sent the rigjt message of being a fighter INSTEAD of a winny bi*_h then their kid would start. Only a whimp sends am message to someone else online to tell other. Wtf is this a middle school girls facebook? If I think Cal players suck I say it to their face and own it with my name. This stuff on here is gossip from a pussy to weak and scared to own a damn thing they say! Grow some balls "parent" and own this! Otherwise ur just being a jerk.

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:facepalm

Not everyone agrees that this PM:

1) is from a Bearant;
2) isn't intended to be malignant towards the Cal football program;
2) is accurate; or
3) that it is worthy of disclosure on BI as any type of evidence.

I could almost agree with jordangoldnbear, but maybe not the way he put it. Everytime someone says something about Allen or Maynard people are going to say it's in line with what they thought. Anything negative will fall in line with what people want to believe.

SchadenBear;842021038 said:

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Not everyone agrees that this PM:

1) is from a Bearant;
2) isn't intended to be malignant towards the Cal football program;
2) is accurate; or
3) that it is worthy of disclosure on BI as any type of evidence.

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jordangoldnbear;842020957 said:

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This "parent" has no class and is an attention whore. What good does calling out the coach and players online do? Sounds like sour grapes... Maybe if this parent sent the rigjt message of being a fighter INSTEAD of a winny bi*_h then their kid would start. Only a whimp sends am message to someone else online to tell other. Wtf is this a middle school girls facebook? If I think Cal players suck I say it to their face and own it with my name. This stuff on here is gossip from a pussy to weak and scared to own a damn thing they say! Grow some balls "parent" and own this! Otherwise ur just being a jerk.

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Get lost Otis...

I didn't want to believe that stuff was true but after I received the PM I sadly realized it was time for Tedford to leave.

Don't understand the vitriol toward the parent. His kid didn't cause any waves just told his dad what was happening in the locker room.

Dad felt like letting some folks know their inclinations might have some legs to stand on.

This thread should be locked a lot of the same stuff being repeated and taking up space

wow. almost 30K views....

I also do appreciate the information from the parent. I can always make my own decision, but I do appreciate the info.

Unit2Sucks;842020414 said:

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And how does spreading one alleged parent's message about what he or she thinks happened going to accomplish that? The season is over, Tedford is finally gone and we can look forward to wiping the slate clean in 2013. Unfortunately the TMZ contingent on BI doesn't want to let that happen.

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"TMZ contingent on BI"
Best new BI term I've seen in a long time, I like it and agree it fits here.

BearyWhite;842021069 said:

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26 minutes well spent

ayetee11;842021050 said:

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I could almost agree with jordangoldnbear, but maybe not the way he put it. Everytime someone says something about Allen or Maynard people are going to say it's in line with what they thought. Anything negative will fall in line with what people want to believe.

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I can't imagine a true Cal fan "want(ing) to believe" things like this about any Cal athlete. There seems to be a large body of thought that suggests bad stuff. Like it? No. Suspect it might be true? Maybe. Just because it is put out there does not suggest that everyone believes it without question. I would hope our educations prepared us better to process information.

BerlinerBaer;842021159 said:

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26 minutes well spent

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it was a sunday..

jordangoldnbear;842020957 said:

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This "parent" has no class and is an attention whore. What good does calling out the coach and players online do? Sounds like sour grapes... Maybe if this parent sent the rigjt message of being a fighter INSTEAD of a winny bi*_h then their kid would start. Only a whimp sends am message to someone else online to tell other. Wtf is this a middle school girls facebook? If I think Cal players suck I say it to their face and own it with my name. This stuff on here is gossip from a pussy to weak and scared to own a damn thing they say! Grow some balls "parent" and own this! Otherwise ur just being a jerk.

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The guy is a whistleblower with info we wouldn't know because of the secrecy of the JT realm. You on the other hand don't know anything about this guy and have no idea what he did behind the scenes...therefore, I rate you as the pussy who is hysterical and besides himself. Get a grip and go help Maynard pack you wimp.

freshfunk;842019324 said:

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JT is a man who is stubborn in his ways. I just don't see him enforcing discipline during the early years and then not doing it later. He took out the starting QB for the first quarter of the first game for missing a tutorin session. That is a man who's a stickler for rules even if it screws him.

As far as public comments: It's just more plausible that KA was mouthing off to protect his brother. Nothing unexpected there. Him saying he wouldn't play is a stupid, empty threat that would throwaway his own future knowing full well how bad his own brother is. Come game time KA would probably play than sacrifice his NFL future for a brother who won't even play in the CFL.

Division in the team is really a matter of opinion. When any team is losing, people will point fingers. I'm sure the last few years the defense has felt like the offense has been the real problem. We all know that the QB gets a lot of the praise during wins and blame durin losses. Given that we were losing a lot this year, naturally there would be tension.

The use of the word "factions" seems overly dramatic. The defensive players are probably closer and so are the offensive players. The OL guys play as a unit and the RBs also form a unit. You could call these "factions" but I see a group of players by position that probably share common opinions.

This is just my read and if I talked to more players then perhaps I'd think differently. I'm just not so quick to buy into all the drama given how bad the season went. I also go by what I see / hear directly from the players (post game) as opposed to second hand accounts.

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That's as good a summary on what likely really occurred as anyone has presented.

Cal_Fan2;842021257 said:

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The guy is a whistleblower with info we wouldn't know because of the secrecy of the JT realm. You on the other hand don't know anything about this guy and have no idea what he did behind the scenes...therefore, I rate you as the pussy who is hysterical and besides himself. Get a grip and go help Maynard pack you wimp.

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Ahhhh that made me laugh... another parent of a player that quit? If you actually knew Zack and Kee you wouldn't talk **** about their behind his back. You wanna talk about Avery celebrating when were done ok. But to say that Zack and Kee quit is bull. You guys are so tough behind your computers. You wanna ask Zach and Kee first hand come to Campus and ask! You talk to other players like I do you'd know that kee and zach are not looked down upon. CJ himself said that BI people are idiots and don't know **** so go ahead and talk **** including that puss parent with no balls to call people out themselves. The fact remains THEY play you don't and neither does your wimpy kid on the bench watching like the rest of us