Cal Panda Bear;842019466 said:

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Here's an interesting question : When Keenan gets drafted in the first round, would all of you cheer for it or continue to hate on him for "ruining" the team?

I have no opinion yet. If the allegations in this thread are true, I can't look at Keenan the same way I did when I was a student cheering for him to succeed. But that being said, he was pretty electrifying to watch.

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I've come to dislike him and his brother, but don't really harbor any bad feelings or resentment towards him, either.

I'll just be happy when ZM and KA are gone, period. Doesn't matter to me where they go. If KA becomes successful as a pro, then I won't really feel like he's a true bear like AR, DJax or ML, though.

MoragaBear;842019382 said:

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There are A LOT of bearents on these boards. Many post and many don't.

I've heard from a lot of bearents over the years and know many pretty well and I can tell you from personal experience that you need to take everything with a grain of salt, especially from disgruntled parents. Sometimes there's a lot of truth in what they say and sometimes there's very little. You'd be surprised how little they actually know sometimes because many players don't let their parents into their world and a lot of what parents say and believe is their own conjecture.

I can tell you that most players on the team love and respect Tedford even if they don't agree with all his decisions and that this was not a team swirling with dissention. I can tell you, though, that a very sizeable percentage were extremely frustrated with Tedford's insistence on playing Maynard at all costs and not playing and developing any of the other qb's and that the rumors about Maynard not going to class, cutting out on workouts and nearly being on academic probation were all true. I don't buy at all that 15-20 starters weren't going to class.

I also don't believe that Allen made it clear to the whole team that he wouldn't play if Maynard didn't play. I believe that keeping Keenan happy factored into Tedford's decision-making process but I don't believe it was quid pro quo.

It's also clear that Tedford started to lose a handle on the team in '07. In that year, factions and dissention were very real. Once the cat was out of the bag, I think he began to struggle in ways that weren't much of a factor in previous years, though it was never as bad in the following years as it was in late '07.

To me, it reached the point of no return. There was no way they could bring Tedford back in 2013.

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I agree.
When you hear one side, it's often not the whole truth. It contains personal biases and perhaps some exaggerations.
However, it does suggest that the team chemistry is horrible under Tedford over the past few years. It suggests that at least some divisions exist within the team and Tedford couldn't handle it.

Cal_Fan2;842019460 said:

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If Maynard started skipping training schedules and sleeping on training tables, rest assured that half the Bama team would kick his butt before Saban pulled his schollie.

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Yep, the poor culture of Cal's team is pretty apparent, disgruntled parent or not.

So glad that Sandy pulled the plug finally.

Rotton Robbie;842019495 said:

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Let's be real. Nobody would care about what was going on had Cal won. The feelings harbored here are significant because we went 15-22 (12-22 against FBS teams) during Allen's time here.

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Probably true, but it's also probably true that if JT had a better handle on the team, Cal would have been winning more.

Cal Panda Bear;842019466 said:

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Here's an interesting question : When Keenan gets drafted in the first round, would all of you cheer for it or continue to hate on him for "ruining" the team?

I have no opinion yet. If the allegations in this thread are true, I can't look at Keenan the same way I did when I was a student cheering for him to succeed. But that being said, he was pretty electrifying to watch.

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it's cool that Keenan was a Bear, played for us, gave at least a good effort in these seasons.

the fact that he earned his half-brother a schollie to Cal, considering no other D1 schools would touch him, much less start him, has sullied KA's image in my mind.

all that notwithstanding, it always seemed to me that it was all business with Keenan. the guy could go pro no matter where he played, he knew that, we knew that. Cal was just a pitstop for him, no more, no less.

Etchebeary;842019483 said:

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I'll just be happy when ZM and KA are gone, period. Doesn't matter to me where they go. If KA becomes successful as a pro, then I won't really feel like he's a true bear like AR, DJax or ML, though.

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One of these things is not like the other, one of these things, doesn't belong. Can you tell which thing is not like the other?... Before I finish this so... post.

Cal Panda Bear;842019466 said:

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Here's an interesting question : When Keenan gets drafted in the first round, would all of you cheer for it or continue to hate on him for "ruining" the team?

I have no opinion yet. If the allegations in this thread are true, I can't look at Keenan the same way I did when I was a student cheering for him to succeed. But that being said, he was pretty electrifying to watch.

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I'd cheer for him for his physical abilities.
I don't put all the blame on a player for favoring his half-brother on the same team. Tedford offered him the scholarship (and apparently his half-brother as well) for his physical abilities. It's Tedford's job to teach other aspects of life and football into Keenan.
It's Tedford's fault that he couldn't be a leader and handle a couple of teenagers.

LethalFang;842019490 said:

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I agree.
When you hear one side, it's often not the whole truth. It contains personal biases and perhaps some exaggerations.
However, it does suggest that the team chemistry is horrible under Tedford over the past few years. It suggests that at least some divisions exist within the team and Tedford couldn't handle it.

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You show me a team that goes 3-9 and I'll show you a team that has internal controversy (with lots of finger pointing) and angry parents asking why little Timmy isn't playing.

freshfunk;842019522 said:

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You show me a team that goes 3-9 and I'll show you a team that has internal controversy (with lots of finger pointing) and angry parents asking why little Timmy isn't playing.

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Well, that aside freshfunk, I guess it depends on what position little Timmy plays? Is it Bridgfords mom? Kline's? If that were true, I'd be pretty pissed off too and would have no trouble running my mouth off once the coach is gone.

As an aside, it would be interesting to know what Alabama's take on this whole situation is. They're probably laughing at us, pointing a finger and saying, "Suckers!".

philly1121;842019533 said:

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Well, that aside freshfunk, I guess it depends on what position little Timmy plays? Is it Bridgfords mom? Kline's? If that were true, I'd be pretty pissed off too and would have no trouble running my mouth off once the coach is gone.

As an aside, it would be interesting to know what Alabama's take on this whole situation is. They're probably laughing at us, pointing a finger and saying, "Suckers!".

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oh, you know for SURE Saban's already started laughing after last year's season, "THAT'S why i couldn't give Maynard a scholly."

I can understand that logic except saying something before he was fired might have affected change. Saying something after the fact is little more unclear. My first response, was close to "who cares," but considering I have now posted 3 times in the thread, that's fairly hypocritical...

Rotton Robbie;842019509 said:

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I won't deny that. I guess my main point is that I don't blame Tedford (shocker, I know) for pulling this off if he was convinced it would lead to wins. Obviously it didn't, and it backfired. But let's look at Auburn: they were pretty closely linked with a scandal to get Cam Newton onto campus. They won their national championship and their Heisman Trophy. Even if the NCAA takes away that championship, the experience they provided for their fans and the genuine football is something that they will be linked with, forever.

All the programs take risks to win games, ethical and unethical. The talk that "JT did things the right way" is a delusional statement made by fans on this board because they want to believe that JT is different and morally superior. However, there is plenty of evidence to support that Tedford pulled stunts that could be construed as doing it "the wrong way." I don't blame him for that, as those moves were pulled with the intenton to get Cal wins.

Let's analyze: injurygate was utilized to try and beat #1 Oregon 2 years ago, Keenan Allen was done to add a superior athlete and playmaker to our WR core and get wins, etc.

What I blame Tedford for is for his in-game coaching, his poor motivational skills, and how he never took responsibility for anything. Maybe agreeing to something like pulling in Maynard + Allen together was a bad move, but it was only a bad move because he ultimately could not get the team to back Maynard and create a divide (if the rumors are true). JT's intentions, though, should not be criticized. He did it with the intention of getting W's.

IOW, the result and the handling should be criticized. The intentions should not be. Tedford tried to pull in elite talent. That is neither the 'wrong way' to do things,and it should not be criticized.

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The big issue is that Tedford pulled in elite talent that could not cut it in the classroom. This has worked for awhile, but now that it's not, he doomed himself.

I wonder how much not having an SAHPC the last five years hurt him. Scared off players that fit the Cal profile and forced Cal to take a lot of Plan "B" and "C" options.

It seems like the last two classes better fit the type of player we want here, so hopefully we can keep on getting those guys.

Unit2Sucks;842019028 said:

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Whatever happened to exercising discretion before spreading rumors that would be detrimental to a program? I know I can't stem the wave of attention-whoring and gossiping of the failures of 2012, but it still pains me to see our fanbase getting involved in this and debasing ourselves.

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Is discretion censorship in this case?

Let's talk about it. It's good to get this out in the open, and get at the truth of the situation.

It was obvious from the get-go that Maynard was a second-rate QB. Now its becoming clearer why he was starting.

GoldenYears;842019578 said:

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The big issue is that Tosh pulled in big talent that Tedford could not manage.

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Wow, that's a stretch. Tosh was a gawd till he defected, then became a demon. Now all the bad things that happened in the locker room can be heaped on him.

You know I'll buy into the Maynard/Allen conspiracy a bit, as in sure there's something there but how much is reality, who knows.

The idea however that Maynard started over Bridgford, even as Bridgford is better, is a sketchy idea. Yes Bridgford needed reps, a better OL etc., but he wasn't better than ZM. The fact is, Cal had a load of sub-par or under-developed QBs, for whatever reason.

Most important position in FB and it's still a crap shoot for the NFL and CFB. Heck, ask Mack Brown how the QB stuff is going...he has had terrible luck in that area and they're Texass.

Rotton Robbie;842019600 said:

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In my one attempt to not troll your post and perhaps engage in intelligent discussion...

I agree that there is not sufficient evidence that Bridgford is better than Maynard. I don't think Bridgford is that good to begin with. I just wish, in a way, that Tedford would have just gone with Kline. If the rumors are true, then we probably would have had a good year, with a smaller locker room split, with a fanbase who had actual reason to believe that things were getting better.

Instead, we're stuck in the this muck, that cost Tedford his job.

Why do we highlight Texas sucking, and their QB sucking? They are 8-3 and were ranked 16 going into this weekend (before losing to TCU).

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Okay lets give this a shot...

I would have liked to see Kline but he's a frosh and the OL would have let him get mangled. Not a good combo. IF the OL was okay, I'd say sure why not put a frosh in there. Bad OL makes that a risky move.

The reason why I highlight Texas is because they're a major program, perhaps one of the perennial Top 10 to 20 teams. UT is the flag ship school in a place where football is VERY IMPORTANT to culture, the school, everything.

Football is KING in Texas...and my point is if they have those kinds of resources, that amount of tradition, the fan base and every FB player in TX wants to go there and yet they still have QB issues, well it's still a crap shoot.

I think a school gets one exceptional QB every 8-10 seasons. On that note, lets hope Kline is the next at Cal...and that would be about 8-10 years.

AirOski;842019582 said:

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Is discretion censorship in this case?

Let's talk about it. It's good to get this out in the open, and get at the truth of the situation.

It was obvious from the get-go that Maynard was a second-rate QB. Now its becoming clearer why he was starting.

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I don't think you know what censorship means. I will defend Okaydo's right to show no discretion in what he chooses to post, but that doesn't mean he should be free from criticism for exercising his right to post freely.

I also don't agree that it's good to get it out in the open, particularly as it is unproven conjecture. It's just another symptom of Tedford's failure to manage the team and no longer relevant since the man has been relieved of his duties. I don't know whether this gossip will spread broader than BI, but it certainly doesn't make the football program look good and I fail to see what the positive impact on the program will be from spreading this gossip.

If the bearent wanted to post this information, he or she was free to do so and stand up to the questioning - but that obviously isn't the path that he or she chose. As for Okaydo's motivations or exercise of discretion, I don't know what Okaydo did or didn't think about before posting this information because he has not given us any indication of what he was aiming for. This same bearent contacted a number of other posters and yet Okaydo was the only one to choose to post about it. This shouldn't surprise anyone since Okaydo starts probably 5x as many threads as the next most prolific BI poster.

I think fellow posters should be allowed to criticize this decision, and denying them that right would be censorship.

sketchy9;842019012 said:

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Obviously the million dollar question is whether or not this person is indeed the parent of a player and his/her info is accurate. If it is clearly it was an untenable situation. Unfortunately I don't think there's any way to verify its veracity, but the Allen/Maynard deal with the devil is certainly plausible.

-R

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It can be easily verified by one of the players. And, now, I bet it could be verified by many. By the sound of it many were PO'd at ZM & KA.

And, if this is true, and Sandy found out it is no wonder why she gave JT the axe (pun intended).

Unit2Sucks;842019637 said:

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I don't think you know what censorship means. I will defend Okaydo's right to show no discretion in what he chooses to post, but that doesn't mean he should be free from criticism for exercising his right to post freely.

I also don't agree that it's good to get it out in the open, particularly as it is unproven conjecture. It's just another symptom of Tedford's failure to manage the team and no longer relevant since the man has been relieved of his duties. I don't know whether this gossip will spread broader than BI, but it certainly doesn't make the football program look good and I fail to see what the positive impact on the program will be from spreading this gossip.

If the bearent wanted to post this information, he or she was free to do so and stand up to the questioning - but that obviously isn't the path that he or she chose. As for Okaydo's motivations or exercise of discretion, I don't know what Okaydo did or didn't think about before posting this information because he has not given us any indication of what he was aiming for. This same bearent contacted a number of other posters and yet Okaydo was the only one to choose to post about it. This shouldn't surprise anyone since Okaydo starts probably 5x as many threads as the next most prolific BI poster.

I think fellow posters should be allowed to criticize this decision, and denying them that right would be censorship.

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I don't see any harm in the rumor. It only says Tedford has no control over the program, which is no secret to any observer. This only provides an example how he has no control over the program. Those kind of things are expected in a dysfunctional organization, and I expect them fixed by a competent staff.
This rumor only confirms Tedford's lack of leadership.
It does not suggest any wrongdoing on Tedford's part.

So if you think it's harmful, tell me how.

LethalFang;842019644 said:

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I don't see any harm in the rumor. It only says Tedford has no control over the program, which is no secret to any observer. This only provides an example how he has no control over the program. Those kind of things are expected in a dysfunctional organization, and I expect them fixed by a competent staff.
This rumor only confirms Tedford's lack of leadership.
It does not suggest any wrongdoing on Tedford's part.

So if you think it's harmful, tell me how.

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I don't see how it's harmful at this point, given that it's about Tedford losing control of things and now Tedford is gone anyway.

LethalFang;842019644 said:

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So if you think it's harmful, tell me how.

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sycasey;842019647 said:

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I don't see how it's harmful at this point, given that it's about Tedford losing control of things and now Tedford is gone anyway.

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I'm going the other way - I don't see how it's helpful. It may or may not be true, and the harm is in painting the program in a negative light that may be untrue. It could lead to infighting among current teammates or finger pointing - which is not helpful. There are probably lots of other reasons that it could be harmful.

Assuming the bearent is who he or she purports to be, I don't see how spreading one person's agenda on their behalf helps us win more games. Happy to listen to reason as to why that's the case. Certainly the reason it was posted had nothing to do with helping the program and everything to do with what SchadenBear said earlier.

Unit2Sucks;842019648 said:

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I'm going the other way - I don't see how it's helpful. It may or may not be true, and the harm is in painting the program in a negative light that may be untrue. It could lead to infighting among current teammates or finger pointing - which is not helpful.

Assuming the bearent is who he or she purports to be, I don't see how spreading one person's agenda on their behalf helps us win more games. Happy to listen to reason as to why that's the case.

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If it's basically neutral w/r/t the program's strength (and I believe it is), then I'm just interested in knowing more about what happened to the Tedford era that seemed to start out so promisingly. More information helps paint a clearer picture.

beelzebear;842019590 said:

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You know I'll buy into the Maynard/Allen conspiracy a bit, as in sure there's something there but how much is reality, who knows.

The idea however that Maynard started over Bridgford, even as Bridgford is better, is a sketchy idea. Yes Bridgford needed reps, a better OL etc., but he wasn't better than ZM. The fact is, Cal had a load of sub-par or under-developed QBs, for whatever reason.

Most important position in FB and it's still a crap shoot for the NFL and CFB. Heck, ask Mack Brown how the QB stuff is going...he has had terrible luck in that area and they're Texass.

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Many of us who were at the Spring 11 Practice at Grant HS in Sac saw Bridgford outplay Maynard. I fully expected him to be the starter last season. Tedford's "he can do things with his legs" bit is somewhat true, but... If anyone closely watched Bridgfords passes he was consistantly more on target than ZM, who is famous for throwing the ball high or behind receivers.

As far as the under-developed QB's, that's the $64M question. How much time was Tedford spending with the QB's? Or did he leave it all up to Arroyo & previously Ludwig?

And, worse, the fact that your #2 QB never had any reps all year long with the 1st Team? Uneffenbelievable!

beelzebear;842019380 said:

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Colonel Mustard killed Teddy with a candlestick in the SAHPC and Professor Plum covered it up.

p.s. Teddy, Maynard and Allen have left the building

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How many people think Maynard comes back to finish this quarter? Allen will only because he needs the medical, rehab, & training facilities for the NFL Indy Combine.

I posted above so you all could get off pressing as to this particular parent. I've heard it for years from players and their parents...this is nothing more than the latest confirmation, taking the sweeter and more naive among you as shocking news requiring hard evidence. Bless your innocence but question your judgment...what else could explain such lackluster and worse performances through the last several years???

Nor-Cal Scott;842019654 said:

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Many of us who were at the Spring 11 Practice at Grant HS in Sac saw Bridgford outplay Maynard. I fully expected him to be the starter last season. Tedford's "he can do things with his legs" bit is somewhat true, but... If anyone closely watched Bridgfords passes he was consistantly more on target than ZM, who is famous for throwing the ball high or behind receivers.

As far as the under-developed QB's, that's the $64M question. How much time was Tedford spending with the QB's? Or did he leave it all up to Arroyo & previously Ludwig?

And, worse, the fact that your #2 QB never had any reps all year long with the 1st Team? Uneffenbelievable!

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I was at the Spring game at Edwards. I thought ZM was better than Bridgford in that game. Can't argue with the reps however. The other logic I kept hearing was if the OL sucks, better to have a mobile QB.

Nor-Cal Scott;842019669 said:

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How many people think Maynard comes back to finish this quarter? Allen will only because he needs the medical, rehab, & training facilities for the NFL Indy Combine.

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Hmmm..quarters? Old timer? I'd re-enroll if I were Allen since it all comes down to the combine.

Semester?

Just to reiterate:

31 hours elapsed between the time I received this PM and the time I posted it. I was seriously considering ignoring it, but then I found out others had received it, and I consulted with them, including Cal_Fan2 and NYCGOBEARS and several others.

I want to state yet again that it is my belief that okaydo let this out for the very best reasons and in the most unimpeachable way possible.

Most of what is said on this board is pure conjecture. That being said, reporting comments made by someone who is much closer to the program than most of us are is news worthy, even if it is hearsay and opinion. Also, the source gave permission for okaydo to do so.

Nor-Cal Scott;842019669 said:

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How many people think Maynard comes back to finish this quarter? Allen will only because he needs the medical, rehab, & training facilities for the NFL Indy Combine.

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New Bear? Quarter?

Damn maybe we do need more troll witch hunts here. You guys are slippin'.

If this story has any legs to it, you'd have to think that some sports reporter is salivating at the chance to write the story, be interesting to see if this appears in SI or something in the future.

I have no reason not to believe it, the story is congruent with the performance on the field. But I also think that there is more to be told, I'd be interested in having the whole thing aired out. And these days with all the stories about the negative sides of college football being promoted....

GrizzledBear;842019738 said:

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If this story has any legs to it, you'd have to think that some sports reporter is salivating at the chance to write the story, be interesting to see if this appears in SI or something in the future.

I have no reason not to believe it, the story is congruent with the performance on the field. But I also think that there is more to be told, I'd be interested in having the whole thing aired out. And these days with all the stories about the negative sides of college football being promoted....

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The story would only be of interest to Cal fans.
There is no real dirt in this story, so it wouldn't be interesting to a wider national audience. It only suggest that Tedford lacks leadership, and does not have a strong personality.
Tedford isn't the only head coach who has his personnel decision strong-armed by a star player.

LethalFang;842019757 said:

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The story would only be of interest to Cal fans.

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disagree, but we'll see won't we?

okaydo;842019716 said:

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Just to reiterate:

31 hours elapsed between the time I received this PM and the time I posted it. I was seriously considering ignoring it, but then I found out others had received it, and I consulted with them, including Cal_Fan2 and NYCGOBEARS and several others.

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I can vouch for this...Okaydo didn't just post this willy nilly without some soul searching and advice from others. If JT was still HC it might be a different matter, but with him gone, I think the more info that gives some insight into what happened with this team is warranted.

MoragaBear;842019382 said:

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There are A LOT of bearents on these boards. Many post and many don't.

I've heard from a lot of bearents over the years and know many pretty well and I can tell you from personal experience that you need to take everything with a grain of salt, especially from disgruntled parents. Sometimes there's a lot of truth in what they say and sometimes there's very little. You'd be surprised how little they actually know sometimes because many players don't let their parents into their world and a lot of what parents say and believe is their own conjecture.

I can tell you that most players on the team love and respect Tedford even if they don't agree with all his decisions and that this was not a team swirling with dissention. I can tell you, though, that a very sizeable percentage were extremely frustrated with Tedford's insistence on playing Maynard at all costs and not playing and developing any of the other qb's and that the rumors about Maynard not going to class, cutting out on workouts and nearly being on academic probation were all true. I don't buy at all that 15-20 starters weren't going to class.

I also don't believe that Allen made it clear to the whole team that he wouldn't play if Maynard didn't play. I believe that keeping Keenan happy factored into Tedford's decision-making process but I don't believe it was quid pro quo.

It's also clear that Tedford started to lose a handle on the team in '07. In that year, factions and dissention were very real. Once the cat was out of the bag, I think he began to struggle in ways that weren't much of a factor in previous years, though it was never as bad in the following years as it was in late '07.

To me, it reached the point of no return. There was no way they could bring Tedford back in 2013.

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Thanks, MB, and I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving in So. Cal. Yes, this kind of thing, esp. when results are going bad, seems to always come out, whether in sports, work, school, church, little league baseball, reading club, etc. We are all political creatures and on political beast mode when not feeling good about things.