Aaron Rodgers poised to become highest-paid player in NFL history

6,159 Views | 47 Replies | Last: 13 yr ago by HaasBear04
okaydo
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Rodgers is way underpaid, as this article notes, and the price will only go up the longer the Packers wait to lock him up. (But Ted Thompson was smart to sign-Rodgers to a 6-year deal early in Rodgers' first season as a starter, before he took off.)
http://www.packersnews.com/article/20130213/PKR01/302130483/Green-Bay-Packers-QB-Aaron-Rodgers-underpaid-at-10M-per-year


71Bear
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Until Kaep signs his mega-deal in a couple years....
okaydo
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71Bear;842090742 said:

Until Kaep signs his mega-deal in a couple years....


We'll see if Kaep could keep it up.

Will there be a sophomore (junior?) slump?

Will teams figure him out?

Will the Green Bay Packers' defensive staff learn from their trip to Texas A&M?


It's interesting to note that Kaepernick is 4 years younger than Rodgers.

He became starter when he was 24, as did Rodgers.
GMP
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71Bear;842090742 said:

Until Kaep signs his mega-deal in a couple years....


beelzebear
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What is the guaranteed money for Flaco and Rodgers? That's the thing about the NFL, half of the money is not "real" and/or rarely does a player see it all.

re: Kap...salary goes up AFTER you win a SB and demostrate you can run the show and win it all. If he wins one, he'll get paid well.
TiredBear
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The Pack will lock up CMIII first. Then, get ready for a ridiculous deal. Good for you, Aaron!
Phantomfan
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beelzebear;842090759 said:

What is the guaranteed money for Flaco and Rodgers? That's the thing about the NFL, half of the money is not "real" and/or rarely does a player see it all.

re: Kap...salary goes up AFTER you win a SB and demostrate you can run the show and win it all. If he wins one, he'll get paid well.


Yeah... what QB has ever been given more money after not winning the SB. None...thats who!
Cal88
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71Bear;842090742 said:

Until Kaep signs his mega-deal in a couple years....


Not in the same class... As well, Kaepernick takes a lot more punishment. his career is not going to be as long as that of a pure passer.
71Bear
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Jim Kelly? Dan Marino? I'm sure there are others but those names come right to mind....
71Bear
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Kaep takes zero punishment. That is the beauty of his style of play. As Green Bay learned, you can't hurt a guy that you can't catch.

He has a ways to go before achieving the same results as Rodgers but he is off to a terrific start. Heck, he is already listed as a top level talent. I would not be so quick to dismiss him as "not in Rodgers' class". Maybe we can revisit that statement once he reaches the same experience level as Rodgers.
HaasBear04
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71Bear;842090849 said:

Kaep takes zero punishment. That is the beauty of his style of play. As Green Bay learned, you can't hurt a guy that you can't catch.

He has a ways to go before achieving the same results as Rodgers but he is off to a terrific start. Heck, he is already listed as a top level talent. I would not be so quick to dismiss him as "not in Rodgers' class". Maybe we can revisit that statement once he reaches the same experience level as Rodgers.


I'm thinking nfl defenses will learn to take a shot at Kap every single time they run that pistol fake. If you pretend to have the ball, you aren't entitled to protection. That'll learn 'em.
Cal88
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Right, NFL DCs were not used to defend the 9er offense with Kaep this season. Next season there is going to be a lot more focus on him through the regular season, especially from division rivals.
71Bear
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You guys are not giving Kaep enough credit. I still can't believe he is as far along as he is after only ten starts. Let's continue this discussion in about twelve months.
Unit2Sucks
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71Bear;842090953 said:

You guys are not giving Kaep enough credit. I still can't believe he is as far along as he is after only ten starts. Let's continue this discussion in about twelve months.


+1. Everything we've seen from Kap indicates that he has the ability and work ethic to be a top QB. He didn't wilt under playoff pressure which puts him in rare company.

Also, not that I should be surprised, but very misleading thread title. There is no indication that the Packers are going to make AR the highest-paid player in the league. I would make the case that he deserves it as much, if not more, than any other player in the league, but AR wants to win and likely understands that he can make more money in endorsements by winning Super Bowls and taking too much (1/6th) of the team's payroll will make it harder to win. Add in Clay Matthews and you're talking 1/4 of the Packer's payroll. And this is a roster that is in deep need of upgrades - they weren't really in the niner's league this year this year and without significant offseason improvement they won't be able to compete next year either.

Niners are in great shape right now in part because Kap is basically free and they can go out and spend money on the rest of the roster. I think the niners biggest impediment to continued success is having to spend $$$ to retain the great players they've drafted. As we're seeing with Goldson this year, and Bowman, etc. next year, it isn't going to come cheap.
GoldenBear76
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71-Your prejudice is clearly evident here. I don't believe if he played for another NFL team you would be making these same statements based on only a partial season of data. There are many cases where early success does not mean enduring success. That is not to say it will or will not in this case, just that the jury is still out.
71Bear
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LOL... I was thinking the same thing. Namely, that Cal fans are so blind, they can't see the facts. Kaep is a budding star. Rodgers is an established star. Kaep may reach or exceed Rodgers' accomplishments. Given that Kaep is protected by the best OL in football and because he possesses extraordinary speed, chances are good that he will join Montana and Young at the top of the 49er QB mountain.

Note: As for your comment that I am blinded because I am a Niner fan, may I just say that I also think Russell Wilson is headed for stardom. He is another guy who combines the passing skills, running ability and leadership qualities necessary to become a megastar.

We knew that Rodgers would be a great NFL player based on what we saw in college. He was very fortunate to be able to learn from one of the greatest QB's in this era during his early pro years. I believe Keap will be a major player because of his association with Harbaugh which is a similar to the Walsh/Montana combo....
Unit2Sucks
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GoldenBear76;842090985 said:

There are many cases where early success does not mean enduring success.


Please name some QBs with early success like Kap's which didn't lead to enduring success. I think with NFL QBs, once they show they can play well, they generally do for a long time. It was just as apparent after AR's first season that he would be a top player as it is to me that Kap will be.

And if you want numbers, I will happily provide. Kap had a 98.3 passer rating this season. There have been 73 seasons by NFL QBs with passer ratings at or equal to 98.3. Dan Marino, RGIII, Russell Wilson and Ben Roethlissberger are the only guys to have done it younger than Kap. Brian Griese did it in his 3rd year and was never close to as good after that. The rest of the list is full of HOFers and current stars.
cal98
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Unit2Sucks;842091000 said:

Please name some QBs with early success like Kap's which didn't lead to enduring success. I think with NFL QBs, once they show they can play well, they generally do for a long time.


Mark Sanchez?
SchadenBear
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Unit2Sucks;842091000 said:

Please name some QBs with early success like Kap's which didn't lead to enduring success. I think with NFL QBs, once they show they can play well, they generally do for a long time. It was just as apparent after AR's first season that he would be a top player as it is to me that Kap will be.

And if you want numbers, I will happily provide. Kap had a 98.3 passer rating this season. There have been 73 seasons by NFL QBs with passer ratings at or equal to 98.3. Dan Marino, RGIII, Russell Wilson and Ben Roethlissberger are the only guys to have done it younger than Kap. Brian Griese did it in his 3rd year and was never close to as good after that. The rest of the list is full of HOFers and current stars.


Jay Schroeder.
Unit2Sucks
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cal98;842091005 said:

Mark Sanchez?


Can't tell if serious. Sanchize has yet to have a good season. If I take his best numbers from his 4 seasons, his stat line would look like this: 26 TDs, 17 TOs, 56.7% completion percentage, 6.71 ypa. His highest career passer rating is 78 and his highest career QBR is 48 (remember - 50 is average). In half a season, here's what Kap did: 15 TDs, 5 TOs, 62.3% completion percentage, 8.32 ypa. His passer rating (as stated above) was 98.3 and his QBR was 76.8 (3rd in the league after Brady and Manning).

They haven't been doing QBR for very long (just since 2008), but in that time Kape's QBR is tied for 8th. The 7 better seasons belong to AR, Brees, Manning and Brady. Note that I didn't mention Mark Sanchez.

It sucks for niners haters, but barring injury or a historic breakdown, Kaepernick is going to be a star.

SchadenBear;842091006 said:

Jay Schroeder.


At least I know you are joking.
SchadenBear
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Michael Vick?
beelzebear
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Sam Bradford did well his rookie season but has since fallen.
SchadenBear
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Bad Football knowledge.

Quote:

Schroeder gained the starting spot on the Redskins in his third NFL season, and led them to a 12-4 record while throwing for a franchise record 4,109 passing yards and making the Pro Bowl. He managed to lead Washington all the way to the NFC title game, where his team was shut out 17-0 by the New York Giants.
Unit2Sucks
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SchadenBear;842091010 said:

Bad Football knowledge.


Right back at you, although I still don't think you are being serious. That year was Jay's second year with substantial PT. He completed 51% of his passes, threw 22 TDs and 22 INTs and he fumbled 9 times. He was 26 years old.

I'm not just talking about team success. The packers did not have team success in AR's first year as a starter but he demonstrated high-level skill passing the football in terms of completion percentage, TD/INT ratio and yards per attempt. That's what I'm talking about - outstanding quarterbacking. I'd be willing to lower the threshold to QBs who in their first season as a starter completed 60% of their passes with better than a 2 to 1 TD to INT ratio. Find me one of them who turned out not to be a good QB.

beelzebear;842091009 said:

Sam Bradford did well his rookie season but has since fallen.


Bradford played better this year than his rookie season, but still not as well as Kap. He didn't play as well last season but his injury cut his season in half. I think Bradford is going to be fine but to compare him to guys with truly great rookie seasons (Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson and RGIII) would be a mistake.
SchadenBear
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4000 passing yards. Then nada.

Of course your analysis fails to take into effect the fact that the offense the niners were running, some type of spread option, had it's zenith in 2012.

Defenses will adjust. Kap will run (just like Vick) then break a leg and never fully recover.
Cal Panda Bear
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Cal fans are a bunch of 49ers Hatters
:hatters
PhillyBear
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It should be a balancing act for these QB, how much do you want when it starts to negatively impact what your team will be able to sign as support and maintain a quality team. Tom Brady just signed a new contract that was cap friendly and will help to keep key players. The other thing Aaron's got going for him is all the advertising revenue coming in "discount double check", pizza hut - if he's smart he will go for a cap friendly amount keep his team competitive and relevant, which keeps him relevent and continues to get those endorsement checks!
cubzwin
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Ravens figured him out already and all the other teams saw it. Hit Kap hard on every play was the the Raven tactic and it worked. Kap is one hit away from spending the season on the bench. Yeah, so is every player but a running QB is at big risk. Talk to the dog killer.
71Bear
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Baltimore couldn't stop Kaep in the 2nd half until the self-inflicted screwup that led to the TO just before the ball was snapped on a play (a Kaep keeper) that would have been a TD.

Credit Flacco not the Raven D for the win.

Kaep is not a running QB. He is a QB who runs when necessary. Take a look at the NFC title game for proof of that statement.

You guys don't make any sense which isn't surprising given that you don't like the team. Heck, it would be like asking me to assess the Raiders. I don't have a clue because I don't follow them nor do I care about them.
WildBear
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Kaep is a running QB who gets a lot of wide open receivers because the defense has to keep 1-2 extra people in to protect against his threat. That's the key to a lot of these young QBs doing well. Even Kaep said he waits till he sees the receiver open before throwing it a lot of the time and needs to work on that. Brady, AR, Manning, they throw it before the WR is open. If you take away the run option from Kaep, Wilson, RG3, and they aren't as good bc the defense can play for the pass.

These guys are all young and will improve. WIll they become as good as AR, Brady, Manning when it comes to throwing? Probably not, because they won't have to, but they could be just as effective in their own ways.

These guys will also rarely, if ever, see 8 guys drop back in pass coverage and be forced to win games that way because teams are afraid of the run option. Until they do and are forced to beat defenses like that, their throwing skills probably won't get to the AR level. But as mentioned many times, football is about more than just throwing the ball.
Phantomfan
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HaasBear04;842090878 said:

I'm thinking nfl defenses will learn to take a shot at Kap every single time they run that pistol fake. If you pretend to have the ball, you aren't entitled to protection. That'll learn 'em.

People keep saying this...

Even Ray Lewis (one of the best LBers in the NFL especially in terms of preparation) said before the game he was going to hit Kap every play he potentially would have the ball...

Ie his actual game plan was to hit kap on handoffs.

When he finally had the chance, he completely froze, more than a couple times, and didnt hit anyone. Taking himself completely out of the game. Eventually he gave up on that idea and started playing the ball...win some lose some vs lose them all.



The problem with your line of thinking is that the play relies on a LB and/or DE keying on the QB to take them out of the play... that gives the RB more room to get his yards. The defense has to avoid that trap to be successful.

Secondly, ZERO players or teams in the NFL are going to hit the QB needlessly to POTENTIALLY take him out down the road as a trade for making a stop... perhaps because they keyed on the wrong guy, but not as any actual effort... why? Winning by stopping the offense trumps winning with body shots that pay off 3 months or years later.




Bottom line, nothing stops the "just hit the QB every time" game like watching the RB jog away with the ball right in front of your face...




It is far more likely Kap falls off because he gets old and loses a step than players "adjust" and take shots at him. Also, FWIW, Kap has the arm and work ethic to overcome age slowing him down, where previous running QBs did not.
HaasBear04
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Phantomfan;842091302 said:

People keep saying this...

Even Ray Lewis (one of the best LBers in the NFL especially in terms of preparation) said before the game he was going to hit Kap every play he potentially would have the ball...

Ie his actual game plan was to hit kap on handoffs.



Lewis wasn't in position to do what I advocate: hit Kaep right after the mesh point whether he has the ball or not. That would be the Defensive End or OLB, not the ILB.

Phantomfan;842091302 said:


When he finally had the chance, he completely froze, more than a couple times, and didnt hit anyone. Taking himself completely out of the game. Eventually he gave up on that idea and started playing the ball...win some lose some vs lose them all.



His 37 year old legs took him out of the game before it even began. Even the Lord Above couldn't change that fact.

Phantomfan;842091302 said:



The problem with your line of thinking is that the play relies on a LB and/or DE keying on the QB to take them out of the play... that gives the RB more room to get his yards. The defense has to avoid that trap to be successful.




The defense can't avoid the numbers trap unless they run some sort of risky blitz. If the olb/DE is going to be neutralized by the zone read, you might as well pop the qb every single time.

Phantomfan;842091302 said:


Secondly, ZERO players or teams in the NFL are going to hit the QB needlessly to POTENTIALLY take him out down the road as a trade for making a stop... perhaps because they keyed on the wrong guy, but not as any actual effort... why? Winning by stopping the offense trumps winning with body shots that pay off 3 months or years later.




Big time shots can pay immediate dividends.
Phantomfan
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HaasBear04;842091357 said:

Lewis wasn't in position to do what I advocate: hit Kaep right after the mesh point whether he has the ball or not. That would be the Defensive End or OLB, not the ILB.

Watch the game again... Because he wiffed twice when in position to hit Kap at that "mesh point" on run blitzes. Second, the quote "...It's been crazy, watching the tape and not seeing him get hit," defensive tackle Haloti Ngata told the San Francisco Chronicle. "If we get a shot, we have to take it. You have to slow him down, make him think about not wanting to get hit."
"I've been surprised," insider linebacker Dannell Ellerbe said. "You want to hit the quarterback anyway, and now you get a chance to take shots because he is out in the open and not protected."

Along with several others from most of the defense and coaches is pretty telling...

THE SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS (ie the best team in the country, with several of the best players) WANTED TO HIT HIM, and when the time came, they reacted just like everyone else... flat footed and reacting. Ray Lewis is just the most glaring example, if you rewatch the game. With all his preparation, focus, and desire to hit him, when the time came to do it, he froze and didnt hit anyone... at LEAST twice.



Quote:

His 37 year old legs took him out of the game before it even began. Even the Lord Above couldn't change that fact.
He was within arms reach of a stationary Kaepernick and (iirc) a moving Gore and hit no one. That was not his legs, it was that when the chips are down, you try to make the play on the ball, not go after a guy who does not have the ball in the hopes that your body shot might pay off next year.



Quote:

The defense can't avoid the numbers trap unless they run some sort of risky blitz. If the olb/DE is going to be neutralized by the zone read, you might as well pop the qb every single time.

In an ideal world where people are single minded and not worried about winning or losing, this is a good idea. The issue is that football does not actually work like this. The VAST majority of the time, there are a good number of steps taken before the defense gets close enough to make a play. At that point the defender can hit the QB anyway (as you think everyone should/will, and the Ravens claimed they would) - leading to a VERY likely penalty given the amount of time that has passed between the play and the hitting of the NFL QB (just like with ANY play-action type play), taking himself out of the play completely (this is a big one because usually their mind thinks they are still close enough to make a play on the ball after the see what happened) all for the trade off of POSSIBLY making him think twice in another game or after several times doing in in this game, compounding the risk of penalties...

Not going to happen. And is EXACTLY why something called "play action" (the same idea as the Pistol) still works now. Free shots are not as common as you seem to think. Watch possibly the best defenses in the game play the 49ers last year... MAYBE an opportunity to get a free significant hit came a once a game. In those, Kap is still moving and the hit is not the kind that makes a 230lb guy worry.

The rest of the time the play has developed so significantly, that either the "hit" would be superficial or superficial and a 15 yard penalty on the end of a run.

Basically: the play where you and the ravens seem to think there is opportunity to take a free shot is very rare.

You can see this in a super bowl where the defensive PLAN was to hit Kap when he did not have the ball, and he was almost never even TOUCHED after he let go of the ball.
Quote:

Big time shots can pay immediate dividends.

Big shots against players without the ball very often pay immediate dividends to the offense, and rarely pay off by in the way you are claiming.





For it to work you have to adjust the way NFL players THINK, not for one game, but entirely, because plays happen to fast. You have to change the midset of the defense from trying to stop the offense to running down people without the ball.

You also have to change that the NFL is trying to PREVENT hitting players who dont have the ball, defenseless players and QB's.

The first might be possible if more teams run the pistol as a major part of their playbook (even they 49ers run it a minor part)...the second will never happen.





Here is a simple mental exercise that will help you think about how likely your idea is.
1. We KNOW that hitting Kap every play would slow him down, make him hesitate and potentially take him completely out of the game (per conventional wisdom)
2. We know defenses are aware of this and have been trying to do just that (per the quotes above)
3. We know that it has not happened and he seems to be getting babied by defenses he sees (per your own recollections)

Answer these questions:
Why is he not being hit as you think he should be?
Why have defenses not started hitting QB's on runs based on the Play Action?
What is fundamentally different between a QB pretending to hand off on a play action and pretending to throw on a run and the pistol?
Why have defenses not "adjusted" after decades of running QB's?
What needs to happen for QBs to be hit more?
philbert
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Good analysis. The opportunities to hit Kaep while running the pistol are fairly limited. There's a better shot to hit him if he stays in the pocket to pass.

This discussion reminds me of the people who were convinced Stanfurd would plummet back to mediocrity once:

1. Gerhart left
2. Harbaugh left
3. Luck left
Cal88
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why? because defenses have not adjusted to the pistol in the NFL because it is still a novelty, and Kaepernick has only been the starter this season. It's not because Kaepernick is some kind of superhuman athlete who can't be hit, or that the scheme is going to totally protect the QB, the homerism here is over-the-top...

You will see a lot of teams key in on him and hitting him next season, particularly their division rivals. The next time he gets to the superbowl, he's going to have a lot more abuse in the 20+ games he would have played.

Phantomfan;842091302 said:

Secondly, ZERO players or teams in the NFL are going to hit the QB needlessly to POTENTIALLY take him out down the road as a trade for making a stop... perhaps because they keyed on the wrong guy, but not as any actual effort... why? Winning by stopping the offense trumps winning with body shots that pay off 3 months or years later.

Bottom line, nothing stops the "just hit the QB every time" game like watching the RB jog away with the ball right in front of your face...


Teams do this all the time, trading off short-term gains in exchange for wear and tear on their opponents, for instance when they try to run repeatedly for small gains in the first half in order to wear out the opponent's D and net bigger runs later in the game.

As well in the NFL it is all about the playoffs, winning or losing a regular season game is not going to make or break a season for most teams, that's why a rival like Seattle can afford to focus on physically wearing out a crucial cog in their opponent's team in their regular season games knowing that it could help them eliminate a significant hurdle to the superbowl.

In the long run, the 9ers will need at least one good backup QB if they plan to stick with a pistol-style offense.
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