rocketsBLUEglare;842104124 said:

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Who was involved? It was mentioned, but not shown, on the broadcast.

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It was Lapite on D and someone, I think a lineman (Okafur?) on offense.

bearfan;842104523 said:

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Who cares if CalGaoTe favors Kline or not. Let him be.

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Seriously. Like anybody else here doesn't have their biases.

CalGaoTe;842104227 said:

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Not true. Great catch, but he put the ball where only his guy could get it. And all 4 long balls in last posseasion were catchable. The first to #81 was perfect but misplayed by receiver - short armed it. Hinder threw one nice long ball. Otherwise Kline was only one to give offense a chance on 3rd and long or when time is short at end of a half.

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I disagree completely. That pass gets picked in a real game 6 out of 10, and falls incomplete the rest of the time. HORRIBLE decision to throw that... from my angle in E there were two guys who could have picked or deflected it who both flubbed it letting up for some reason and a 3rd guy who would have hospitalized the receiver.


Some good playing but some bad decisions that bad defense made look like good plays were all over. Ie typical spring ball.


This team looks better at qb than last years. Everything else is equal or worse. Long season ahead I think.

chazzed;842104612 said:

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Seriously. Like anybody else here doesn't have their biases.

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I am bias against Maynard and vedder. Also Tedford. But tedford less than holmoe. I also hate Washington and Oregon, UCLA and USC...and Furd

Phantomfan;842104613 said:

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This team looks better at qb than last years. Everything else is equal or worse. Long season ahead I think.

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QB = better
RB = worse, but will get better when Bigs/Lasco are back
WR = even/trending down
OL = slightly up

DL = up
LB = even (but this is because the unit was already pretty good last year)
DB = worse

Good biases. I concur.

Phantomfan;842104615 said:

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I am bias against Maynard and vedder. Also Tedford. But tedford less than holmoe. I also hate Washington and Oregon, UCLA and USC...and Furd

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+1 ... a list worthy of bias or worse :p

ykes

BlueAndGold;842104616 said:

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QB = better
RB = worse, but will get better when Bigs/Lasco are back
WR = even/trending down
OL = slightly up

DL = up
LB = even (but this is because the unit was already pretty good last year)
DB = worse

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Considering the players who are in rehab stages and didn't play, this assessment is actually pretty damn good. When the rehab guys put on the pads, get contact, reclaim there starting roles, there's some decent depth in back of them.

As everyone seems to agree, DBs are a concern so hopefully some depth can be built there when the recruits come on the scene, and maybe some position switching.

BlueAndGold;842104616 said:

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QB = better

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If you go back to the video of last year's game, I just don't see that at all. I think you are influenced by what they did in the season. The quarterbacks were solid last year. They were mostly poor in this game. What I took from the performance is:

1. The reason we have a 3 quarterback race is because we haven't identified the right guy yet, not because they are all so good we can't choose. That's okay, they are learning the offense while they compete. You can see the talent. But "the guy" hasn't stepped up yet.

2. Speaking of learning the offense, the ridiculous notion that they would learn the offense in a day (which Franklin already tried to dispel) should be gone now. The offense was filled with bad snaps, poor timing on hand offs, bad timing in the passing game, really poor blocking, and general disorganization. As you would expect with a team that has had a couple weeks learning the offense. Bottom line is, learning an offense is not easy.

We can get to reality now. Dykes is not a magician and he doesn't have an offense that can be learned in a day as has been a popular meme here. Quite frankly this team looked a lot like last year's team with most of last year's issues. This will be a process. The scheme, like all schemes, is nothing without execution. Now these guys have the summer to work on it, and then Fall camp. IMO, the key is not going to be the scheme, but how well the coaches are able to get these guys to execute by game 1 and game 12.

OaktownBear;842104695 said:

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If you go back to the video of last year's game, I just don't see that at all. I think you are influenced by what they did in the season. The quarterbacks were solid last year. They were mostly poor in this game. What I took from the performance is:

1. The reason we have a 3 quarterback race is because we haven't identified the right guy yet, not because they are all so good we can't choose. That's okay, they are learning the offense while they compete. You can see the talent. But "the guy" hasn't stepped up yet.

2. Speaking of learning the offense, the ridiculous notion that they would learn the offense in a day (which Franklin already tried to dispel) should be gone now. The offense was filled with bad snaps, poor timing on hand offs, bad timing in the passing game, really poor blocking, and general disorganization. As you would expect with a team that has had a couple weeks learning the offense. Bottom line is, learning an offense is not easy.

We can get to reality now. Dykes is not a magician and he doesn't have an offense that can be learned in a day as has been a popular meme here. Quite frankly this team looked a lot like last year's team with most of last year's issues. This will be a process. The scheme, like all schemes, is nothing without execution. Now these guys have the summer to work on it, and then Fall camp. IMO, the key is not going to be the scheme, but how well the coaches are able to get these guys to execute by game 1 and game 12.

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Yeah, I think you put it well. Different scheme but same weaknesses and same strengths. Also it will take time and reps for this scheme to become a well-oiled machine.

bearfan;842104523 said:

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Who cares if CalGaoTe favors Kline or not. Let him be.

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i care. if i'm going to be reading his posts about why Kline is so great, and if i read about others comments in response, i want to know if he has an ulterior motive.

but you can go read and believe whatever you want.

BlueAndGold;842104616 said:

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QB = better
RB = worse, but will get better when Bigs/Lasco are back
WR = even/trending down
OL = slightly up

DL = up
LB = even (but this is because the unit was already pretty good last year)
DB = worse

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Center = horrible

Kline is only qb the nfl arm. And he actually was better than hinder at keeping his eyes downfield while scrambling. I would like improvement from him on shorter timing routes.

I would like to see hinder and goff improve their long passing, which I don't know if they can. I actually expected a stronger arm from goff.

RealDrew2;842104966 said:

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Kline is only qb the nfl arm. And he actually was better than hinder at keeping his eyes downfield while scrambling. I would like improvement from him on shorter timing routes.

I would like to see hinder and goff improve their long passing, which I don't know if they can. I actually expected a stronger arm from goff.

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NFL? wtf :axe

The coaches will start the guy who can lead THIS offense and t'hell with NFL talk in March before any of them have played a down of COLLEGE football.

Coaches will be watching a lot of film and determining who can do what without any thought about one fan's views or fantasies about the future. It's a long time until Northwestern comes to town.

What a hoot. :rollinglaugh:

beeasyed;842104934 said:

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i care. if i'm going to be reading his posts about why Kline is so great, and if i read about others comments in response, i want to know if he has an ulterior motive.

but you can go read and believe whatever you want.

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Not a mystery. I admit I am very biased towards Kline. Why doesn't matter.

SonOfCalVa;842104986 said:

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NFL? wtf :axe

The coaches will start the guy who can lead THIS offense and t'hell with NFL talk in March before any of them have played a down of COLLEGE football.

Coaches will be watching a lot of film and determining who can do what without any thought about one fan's views or fantasies about the future. It's a long time until Northwestern comes to town.

What a hoot. :rollinglaugh:

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C'mon. He doesn't mean actually ready for NFL. He is making an analogy.

beeasyed;842104934 said:

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i care. if i'm going to be reading his posts about why Kline is so great, and if i read about others comments in response, i want to know if he has an ulterior motive.

but you can go read and believe whatever you want.

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And feel free to not read my posts.

There were what?? 14 practices? Many without the 1's and some 2's from last season. What was a reasonable expectation?????
A bunch of guys got experience. McClure got back, Jefferson looks like a player, there is a lot of depth at wide receiver and the program seems to have some excitement after a losing season. That's not bad.
Finally, the staff has a lot to look at and they seem like a group that will work very, very hard trying to prove themselves.

This will be our starting defense day 1 - Northwestern. I'm cool with it.

DE - Brennan Scarlett
DT - Deandre Coleman
DT - Moose Jahlil
DE - Chris McCain

OLB - Khairi Fortt
MLB - Nick Forbes
OLB - Jalen Jefferson

CB - Stefan McClure
CB - Kam Jackson
S - Avery Sebastian
S - Michael Lowe

89Bear;842105017 said:

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There were what?? 14 practices? Many without the 1's and some 2's from last season. What was a reasonable expectation?????
A bunch of guys got experience. McClure got back, Jefferson looks like a player, there is a lot of depth at wide receiver and the program seems to have some excitement after a losing season. That's not bad.
Finally, the staff has a lot to look at and they seem like a group that will work very, very hard trying to prove themselves.

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+1 ... and, lest we forget, anyone who is not a nega-bear will be a sunshine pumper ... oh, BI is going to go through a long wait until fall practice begins and that period will be especially interesting if the coaches, in their wisdom, do not immediately designate the starting QB. Dykes (the HC) has said the process may take a while into fall practice.

Davidson;842105041 said:

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This will be our starting defense day 1 - Northwestern. I'm cool with it.

DE - Brennan Scarlett
DT - Deandre Coleman
DT - Moose Jahlil
DE - Chris McCain

OLB - Khairi Fortt
MLB - Nick Forbes
OLB - Jalen Jefferson

CB - Stefan McClure
CB - Kam Jackson
S - Avery Sebastian
S - Michael Lowe

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that is a nice base defense if you ask me ... who will be there back ups

Davidson;842105041 said:

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This will be our starting defense day 1 - Northwestern. I'm cool with it.

DE - Brennan Scarlett
DT - Deandre Coleman
DT - Moose Jahlil
DE - Chris McCain

OLB - Khairi Fortt
MLB - Nick Forbes
OLB - Jalen Jefferson

CB - Stefan McClure
CB - Kam Jackson
S - Avery Sebastian
S - Michael Lowe

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This is a nice line-up but I have a couple of questions?
1. Does Wilkerson win a LB spot if he is healthy and, if so, who does he replace?
2. Are you sure McCain is strong enough to be a starting DE over guys like Barr, Camporeale, Sina and Kramer?

Here would be my guess for the back-ups.
DE Camporeale
DT Moala
DT King/Kaufusi
DE Barr

OLB Barton
ILB Wilkerson
OLB Broussard/Gibson, if healthy

CB Dozier/Okwudiafor
CB Lee (nickel back?)
S Drew
S Logan/Morgan

Some notes: It wouldn't surprise me to see 1 of our incoming freshman CBs win the back-ups CB spot over Dozier. Lapite is a possibility as well.

The front 7 back-ups could be starters for some pac-12 schools.
All of our 2 deep will be back for 2014, except Coleman, Kaufusi, Camporeale and Logan. :bravo

CalGaoTe;842104227 said:

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Not true. Great catch, but he put the ball where only his guy could get it. And all 4 long balls in last posseasion were catchable. The first to #81 was perfect but misplayed by receiver - short armed it. Hinder threw one nice long ball. Otherwise Kline was only one to give offense a chance on 3rd and long or when time is short at end of a half.

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I agree. Kline looked like he had a better long pass than Goff. Goff could get the ball out quickly and accurately (in the first half, not as much in the second half). Hinder can really run but his passing is good but not as good as Kline or Goff.

But I was very disappointed by the Center. Bad snaps were hard for the QB's to catch and messed up timing of the plays. This has got to be FIXED.

Overall, it was a real kick to see the QB's in action.

Hail2Calif;842104433 said:

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While all the QB's had their moments of inconsistency, when they got into their last drive with about 3 minutes left (running clock), the balls Kline threw were pretty much only possible catches by his receivers.

I thought he was going to connect with Whitehurst on his first throw of the last series as well, but that throw to move the Bears into scoring position sure looked like he dropped it into a really tight window with defenders all around. Few QB's can make that throw.

On the other hand, not sure if Kline made that throw because of the situation (2 minute drill) or he just tried to fit it in there - because you gotta figure with the multiple defenders around the ball, that there might have been a check down receiver open on that play as well.

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Agree that Kline has better long pass; Goff better short pass; Hinder less zip but better legs. Makes a tough decision for SD.

annarborbear;842104580 said:

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l
Agree. If the O-Line doesn't pick it up substantally, we are going to need someone who can roll out alot and run for their life. But, hopefully, the O-Line will eventually jell, and will undergo a huge amount of S&C between now and Fall.

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Maybe we should bring back Maynard :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by annarborbear
l
Agree. If the O-Line doesn't pick it up substantally, we are going to need someone who can roll out alot and run for their life. But, hopefully, the O-Line will eventually jell, and will undergo a huge amount of S&C between now and Fall.

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GivemTheAxe;842105209 said:

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Maybe we should bring back Maynard :p

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A bad line favors Hinder--quick accurate release in the short passing game, throws on the run well and can run himself. His lack of arm strength for deep throws is rendered more or less moot--we may not have the time. His height is a plus given the high snaps too :p

Let's just hope the line gels and is not a factor or even better, becomes a strength.

One thing I have noticed (which I love) is that the base passing plays begin with play action that looks just like the running plays. If Bigelow is doing some damage on his carries that is going to make our pass protection look a whole lot better. I don't get the sense that our defense is giving the guys carrying the ball right now a lot of respect and are just trying to get into the back field.

heartofthebear;842105133 said:

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This is a nice line-up but I have a couple of questions?
1. Does Wilkerson win a LB spot if he is healthy and, if so, who does he replace?
2. Are you sure McCain is strong enough to be a starting DE over guys like Barr, Camporeale, Sina and Kramer?

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#1, considered the amount he's been injured or fighting injuries, that's a big if...but if he does and plays into the top 3, he replaces jefferson.

#2, I think you won't be able to keep McCain off the field. Yes, he's a little nicked up right now, yes he's underweight, yes he's moving to a position that requires more weight, but I think he's a dynamic athlete that will be on the field somehow.

SonOfCalVa;842105063 said:

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+1 ... and, lest we forget, anyone who is not a nega-bear will be a sunshine pumper ...

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That's actually a pretty good litmus test to qualify someone as a nega-bear/sunshine pumper... someone who thinks there is no middle ground.

calumnus;842105250 said:

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A bad line favors Hinder--quick accurate release in the short passing game, throws on the run well and can run himself. His lack of arm strength for deep throws is rendered more or less moot--we may not have the time. His height is a plus given the high snaps too :p

Let's just hope the line gels and is not a factor or even better, becomes a strength.

One thing I have noticed (which I love) is that the base passing plays begin with play action that looks just like the running plays. If Bigelow is doing some damage on his carries that is going to make our pass protection look a whole lot better. I don't get the sense that our defense is giving the guys carrying the ball right now a lot of respect and are just trying to get into the back field.

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Kline had two throws on the run when the pocket broke down. One was rolling right and he hit Maurice probably about 30-40 yards out. The second was rolling left around the 20 hitting Espitia in the corner for a TD.

I don't see Hinder really having the edge here.

^ do you think the TD pass to maximo when rolling left was due to a pocket breakdown?

I thought he rolled right away, like a designed rollout.

freshfunk;842105307 said:

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Kline had two throws on the run when the pocket broke down. One was rolling right and he hit Maurice probably about 30-40 yards out. The second was rolling left around the 20 hitting Espitia in the corner for a TD.

I don't see Hinder really having the edge here.

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True about Kline's mobility but my comment was not about an [U]absolute[/U] edge but a [U]relative[/U] edge (in economics this is called a "comparative advantage"). If line protection is great, then the advantage is clearly to the other stronger-armed quarterbacks, especially Kline. That is why a poor line gives a boost to Hinder because his strength is the quick short passing game and running the ball (not just escaping). That does not mean he would be the best choice, even with a bad line, it is just the scenario where he has the best [U]chance[/U] of being the best choice.

To put it another way, I think if we have good line protection, Hinder has little chance of being the best choice. That is why poor line play gives a boost to Hinder's chances, even though Kline (for example) might end up being the best choice in every scenario.

freshfunk;842105307 said:

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Kline had two throws on the run when the pocket broke down. One was rolling right and he hit Maurice probably about 30-40 yards out. The second was rolling left around the 20 hitting Espitia in the corner for a TD.

I don't see Hinder really having the edge here.

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I agree. Kline looked like he could scramble well.
I really liked the way he kept looking downfield for the receiver; and by doing so, he made some very good throws and gains out of what looked like a certain sack.

Hinder on the other hand looked like he could actually run. His passing was not bad.

damn ... to pick the QB, the coaches could just read BI and save themselves all the time and talk and energy of watching films and coaching :rollinglaugh:

SonOfCalVa;842105420 said:

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damn ... to pick the QB, the coaches could just read BI and save themselves all the time and talk and energy of watching films and coaching :rollinglaugh:

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To help BI members help the coaches make the QB decision, I made a shorter offensive highlights video showing the good plays:



The main thing missing that would help you evaluate the QBs are the bad throws that were off-the-mark or overthrown, but it's a lot easier to get through this than to re-watch the whole game.

Goff is still my favorite.

:axe

TouchedTheAxeIn82;842105440 said:

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To help BI members help the coaches make the QB decision, I made a shorter offensive highlights video showing the good plays:



The main thing missing that would help you evaluate the QBs are the bad throws that were off-the-mark or overthrown, but it's a lot easier to get through this than to re-watch the whole game.

Goff is still my favorite.

:axe

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I was surprised at times Saturday how good Goff looked. And Hinder is right there with them both.