socaliganbear;842107056 said:

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This is from my old school's website:. After comprehensive study and community dialogue, Crossroads School decided that the Advanced Placement (AP) program did not best serve our students as an advanced level curriculum and compromised our ability to fulfill commitments made in our school philosophy.
Close

We, therefore, decided to replace AP courses with our own internally designed and University of California approved Crossroads Advanced Studies (CAS) courses. Students who take these classes will still receive AP/Honors credit and may take the relevant AP exam, should they choose. We believe that this change, one that many nationally recognized independent schools are making, will assure a more stimulating, challenging and relevant academic program for all our students.

Many other private schools have also decided to drop "AP".

I don't rember space being an issue, but I don't think everything was offered every semester. I think the classes rotated.

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The truth lies somewhere in the middle, and it is school dependent.
I went to high school 10 years ago, so this is still relatively fresh news.

AP classes are broken into 3 categories at my school

1) classes that needed to be tested into (because of limited space). These are classes that a lot of people wants to sign up for, but because of space issues and difficulty in separating students, there is a separate essay test to rank qualified students.

AP US history, AP Government, AP English


2) Classes that has a minimum GPA, class, prerequisite or grade requirement
These are classes that needed you to take certain classes before you can enroll, with the minimum of getting Bs or As in the prerequisite classes.

AP Chemistry, AP Physics, AP Language classes, AP Biology

3) Classes that everybody can sign up for

AP Art History, AP Environment Science

Hope this helps ;D

Arcadiabear;842107096 said:

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I have plenty of friends who did Chem Bio and moved onto pharm school, med schools, etc.

Judging from how hard it is to get in. I would say College of Engineering is hardest, college of chem and college of L&S is a toss up. Though be warned, for College of Engineering, certain majors like EECS do NOT accept transfers (unless its a special case). I wouldn't actually say College of Chemistry is a backdoor, maybe not as impacted as College of Engineering, but definitely on par, if not better than all of the other colleges IMO.

Oh also College of Chem is renowned in the world with one of the most respected history in the field, I mean just look at the periodic table.

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Apologies, I wasn't saying COC was 'easier' to get into or that they have a lesser quality of student.... but it may be easier for someone with a more math/science background in HS to get into because you do not apply to L&S with a major.... so you are evaluated against everyone for varying skills and talents. Their admission might choose some one who is a great speaker with no math skills for that spot, who knows? The way you get a good engineering school or science school is to base admission on those qualities that are necessary for success in those fields. L&S can look for any number of talents.

I guess it's just something to think about and ask around about.

For moving on in the fields you specify, there probably isn't a better degree in the world, actually.

Here's a link to a scatter chart showing gpa/test scores for Berkeley admissions. With a 4.19 GPA, it's looking good.

http://collegeapps.about.com/od/GPA-SAT-ACT-Graphs/ss/berkeley-admission-gpa-sat-act.htm

UrsaMajor;842106884 said:

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SAT scores are the least important criterion. Grades matter most (and the # of honors and AP classes attempted). SAT II is second (i.e., her Biology score), personal statement is probably third, and the base SAT fourth (as long as it isn't low enough to be disqualifying). Hers are high enough to be helpful, but grades, recommendations, etc. will be the determining factor.

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2400 gets you in automatically. 2100 is pretty good, too. But right, need a strong GPA and other components in the resume.

gocalbear;842106876 said:

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Her 3 top schools of choice are:
1. Berkeley
2. Stanford
3. Davis

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This must be a bitter disappointment, having a child whose second choice is the Junior University on the Peninsula. Does she know that only the strongest and the most ethically well grounded can leave that institution without turning evil? Does she have a desire somewhere within to test how well she can resist turning to the dark side?

I realize that there are many reasons to avoid both the UC and the Cal State systems these days, and I believe for many it is wise to have as first choice private schools, especially since for many, aid is such that a private will be roughly the same or cheaper than a UC. For a great many, Stanford will be a lot cheaper than a UC, and it is a lot easier to graduate from privates in 4 years, when 5 years will only increase costs. But those factors don't seem to be big issues here, since Berkeley and Davis are 1 and 3. And most private schools actually allow a majority to graduate without becoming evil, unlike LSJU, where it is only the outstanding few who can accomplish such a feat.

Perhaps she is ignorant of the fact that studies have shown that 92.6% (with a margin for error of plus or minus 3.5%) of all entering Stanford students will exit as evil. To go there, one has to a) believe one is stronger and more ethically grounded than most other entering students and can make it through without turning to the dark side, b) be ignorant of the evil nature of the institution, or c) don't have a problem coming out on the dark side (including some who have already turned before applying).

Best of luck, I hope she either doesn't end up at choice #2, or is strong enough to resist the forces of the dark side.

gocalbear;842106876 said:

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My daughter just recived her SAT scores today and I was wondering if they are good enough to get accepted into Berkeley?

Her 3 top schools of choice are:
1. Berkeley
2. Stanford
3. Davis

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You mean Cal, right!!!
Our school needs a lesson in branding, IMO!

Cal8285;842107125 said:

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This must be a bitter disappointment, having a child whose second choice is the Junior University on the Peninsula. Does she know that only the strongest and the most ethically well grounded can leave that institution without turning evil? Does she have a desire somewhere within to test how well she can resist turning to the dark side?

I realize that there are many reasons to avoid both the UC and the Cal State systems these days, and I believe for many it is wise to have as first choice private schools, especially since for many, aid is such that a private will be roughly the same or cheaper than a UC. For a great many, Stanford will be a lot cheaper than a UC, and it is a lot easier to graduate from privates in 4 years, when 5 years will only increase costs. But those factors don't seem to be big issues here, since Berkeley and Davis are 1 and 3. And most private schools actually allow a majority to graduate without becoming evil, unlike LSJU, where it is only the outstanding few who can accomplish such a feat.

Perhaps she is ignorant of the fact that studies have shown that 92.6% (with a margin for error of plus or minus 3.5%) of all entering Stanford students will exit as evil. To go there, one has to a) believe one is stronger and more ethically grounded than most other entering students and can make it through without turning to the dark side, b) be ignorant of the evil nature of the institution, or c) don't have a problem coming out on the dark side (including some who have already turned before applying).

Best of luck, I hope she either doesn't end up at choice #2, or is strong enough to resist the forces of the dark side.

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The studies cited by 8285 are backed up by actual photographic evidence of what Furdies look like after graduation

I got a view of undergrad admissions in the 1990's at UCD engineering. First off, when I first applied I wondered why all the departments had acceptance rates of 74% +/_ 1% (except for Computer Science). Later I sat on a committee where it was explained that the 74% was a target negotiated with hire ups (not clear whether they were at UCD or UC headquarters). At that time the admission was done using a formula combining SAT, GPA, and other factors. Each engineering department went through their previous years data and selected a target score to yield 74% acceptance. The +/_ 1 came from a more refined consideration of students on the bubble.

Its sort of odd to look at it from this perspective, but it does really emphasize the UC's mission to educate California's students. Much of the quality associated with a UC education comes from the quality of the applicants/students themselves, not because some educator draws an arbitrary line determining acceptable from unacceptable.

Bear_Territory;842107074 said:

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If she doesn't get into Cal look into a local community college.

I pretty much failed Highschool. I think I graduated with a 1.9 or 2.0 (never took the SAT), but went to DVC and got into Cal with a 3.8. I had absolutely no extra curricular activities and no long list of rewards that kids who get into cal out of highschool tend to have. IMO getting good grades at DVC was way easier than it was in highschool

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+1 I am going to write a post on this.

gocalbear;842106876 said:

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My daughter just recived her SAT scores today and I was wondering if they are good enough to get accepted into Berkeley?

Her 3 top schools of choice are:
1. Berkeley
2. Stanford
3. Davis

Her SAT scores are:

680 Reading
740 Math
700 Writing

760 Biology

Any suggestion would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help!

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I got my SAT scores this morning too! Best of luck to your daughter!

barabbas;842107014 said:

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If she fills the application out saying her parents didn't go to college:SHE'S IN AT CAL

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Ha Ha, I wish it was that easy. :rollinglaugh:

brcal69;842107098 said:

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There is a lot of well-meaning but mistaken information in this thread, although there are a few who appear to be familiar with the current process. Go to the PM that I sent you.

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Hi brcal69,

I want to publicly thank you for the great information you have send me. That's very kind of you. I will be in touch if I have more questions.

Best Regards,
gocalbear (Mike)

calumnus;842106920 said:

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So last century.

California Prop 209 ended affirmative action at the UCs in 1996, i.e when Mooch was our coach.

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you're right for her choice no.1. hooray for cal!!!

not so for her choice no. 2. it pisses me off to no end that my child has to deal with this, THIS CENTURY. the article i posted earlier does a nice analysis.

I see 2 top choices and one alternate there

1. Top Choice
2. Alternate
3. Top Choice

Essay/application readers think about the essay...does it 'match' what the rest of the application shows? gpa other types of achievements awards, SAT IIs, ACT, etc.....they get a pretty good feel when an essay is written by other people.

Average admit last year was gpa 4.325 AVERAGE!
You get credit for two AP classes each semester, even tho Cal will note if you have taken more.

I always tell applicants don't even report SAT IIs unless well over 700.
SAT IIs are optional now so many applicants don't even take them.

ACT 32, 33, 34 are top of the line.

SAT 2250 and up helps.

Cal doesn't want a bunch of time/clubs. They want one or two activities at most where the student has had increased responsibility thru out HS.

This appears to be a tough tougher year.
We just had an applicant, UC wtd gpa 4.45, ACT 32, SAT IIS over 750.
Declined.
We are shocked.
From a HS that generally gets over 20 admitted each year. Very rare.
The average # of admits from 95% of the HSs is 1-5.

We have 27 applicants hoping to play our club sport here, all A gpas.
We hope to have 4-7 admitted. But this Decline was our top recruit.
No clue. He is likely to appeal. Occasionally an appeal works.

Essays are read for uniqueness, not what everyone else writes. One's English teacher can say the essay is a fine one, but Cal is looking for what applicants are passionate about, how they can contribute to broad campus community, why they want Cal over other fine schools, what the applicant has learned about life as she/he has matured in HS.

RenoBear90;842107149 said:

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you're right for her choice no.1. hooray for cal!!!

not so for her choice no. 2. it pisses me off to no end that my child has to deal with this, THIS CENTURY. the article i posted earlier does a nice analysis.

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Gotcha. The study in the article was for the Ivy's who are pretty obviously discriminating against Asians as they have discriminated against Jews for a century. Cal Tech was used as a counter-example. UC would be an extreme counter-example as Asians are now the majority at the most selective UC campuses. My hunch is Stanford would not look as bad as the Ivy's, but not as good as Cal Tech and certainly not as good as Cal.

I mistakenly thought you were complaining about affirmative action. The quotas on Asians at selective privates are not a result of affirmative action for other racial minorities, they are pretty obviously the result of an attempt to preserve the overwhelming white majorities at those institutions.

calumnus;842107208 said:

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Gotcha. The study in the article was for the Ivy's who are pretty obviously discriminating against Asians as they have discriminated against Jews for a century. Cal Tech was used as a counter-example. UC would be an extreme counter-example as Asians are now the majority at the most selective UC campuses. My hunch is Stanford would not look as bad as the Ivy's, but not as good as Cal Tech and certainly not as good as Cal.

I mistakenly thought you were complaining about affirmative action. The quotas on Asians at selective privates are not a result of affirmative action for other racial minorities, they are pretty obviously the result of an attempt to preserve the overwhelming white majorities at those institutions.

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Cal (first column) Stanford (second column)
African American 3.4% 8%
Mexican American 8,9% 7.4%
Other Hispanic 3.1% 6.5%
White 24.3% 36.1%
Asian 43.4 % 22.7%
Native American 0.7% 2.4%

The numbers don't totally add up because of other categories that don't match up or -decline to state, etc. There is no doubt that Stanford discriminates against Asians but it's not just to add more white people. Stanford has higher %'s of Hispanics, African Americans and Native Americans.

Bear_Territory;842107074 said:

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If she doesn't get into Cal look into a local community college.

I pretty much failed Highschool. I think I graduated with a 1.9 or 2.0 (never took the SAT), but went to DVC and got into Cal with a 3.8. I had absolutely no extra curricular activities and no long list of rewards that kids who get into cal out of highschool tend to have. IMO getting good grades at DVC was way easier than it was in highschool

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I was on a similar boat with an overall GPA from high school at 2.8 and 1300 SAT(760 math and 540 English). Got into Cal because of a near perfect math sat, did calculus in 10th grade and finished all the calculus series, took a few science courses in jc during high school, boy scout, club, and varsity sports.

The admission is definitely much more than just gpa and overall sat score.

I'd say shoe-in for Davis, unlikely for Stanfurd, and she better have a good essay for Berkeley.

Robocheme;842107016 said:

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My two youngest sons had GPA's over 4 with lots of AP classes and SAT's over 1400 (only two scores back then), and they didn't get into CAL. I think the key thing that's missing is what major she wants to get into. All of the engineeriing majors are impacted so it's much tougher to get into those than some of the liberal arts majors.

Good luck

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Yup. I was going to say this too. It really depends which school she's applying to. I applied to the school of engineering and every student probably has similar stats. I was ranked 1 at my hs, a straight A student (4.6 or 4.8 adjusted, don't remember exactly), 1400+ SATs, took practically every AP course, excellent SAT IIs. At the time I didn't know how competitive it was and assumed it would be easy to get in. Only after seeing the caliber of people in my major did I realize how average I was.

From my HS, we had around 4 people attend (so maybe up to 8 admitted) and they were pretty similar to me. The size of my class was around 450 and I'd day my HS was pretty average.

I love you, man. If it's not for tapping into your college basketball knowledge in general, or daydreaming that I can almost match you in Cal Basketball in the Kuchen Years expertise, it's for the sh!t like you posted below.

I wonder if I know you? Naw, nobody I really know personally is like you... Really, it's love, but in a manly, very "Cal" way.

Go Bears!

Cal8285;842107125 said:

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This must be a bitter disappointment, having a child whose second choice is the Junior University on the Peninsula. Does she know that only the strongest and the most ethically well grounded can leave that institution without turning evil? Does she have a desire somewhere within to test how well she can resist turning to the dark side?

I realize that there are many reasons to avoid both the UC and the Cal State systems these days, and I believe for many it is wise to have as first choice private schools, especially since for many, aid is such that a private will be roughly the same or cheaper than a UC. For a great many, Stanford will be a lot cheaper than a UC, and it is a lot easier to graduate from privates in 4 years, when 5 years will only increase costs. But those factors don't seem to be big issues here, since Berkeley and Davis are 1 and 3. And most private schools actually allow a majority to graduate without becoming evil, unlike LSJU, where it is only the outstanding few who can accomplish such a feat.

Perhaps she is ignorant of the fact that studies have shown that 92.6% (with a margin for error of plus or minus 3.5%) of all entering Stanford students will exit as evil. To go there, one has to a) believe one is stronger and more ethically grounded than most other entering students and can make it through without turning to the dark side, b) be ignorant of the evil nature of the institution, or c) don't have a problem coming out on the dark side (including some who have already turned before applying).

Best of luck, I hope she either doesn't end up at choice #2, or is strong enough to resist the forces of the dark side.

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okaydo;842107046 said:

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A question for those who went to elite high schools:

Is there, for instance, 1 AP History class and 1 AP Language Class and so on and so forth?

Or are there multiple AP classes on the same subject?

For instance, at my "urban" high school we had 1 AP History class that we had to compete to get into. So the best 25 got in the class. And the same goes for a lot of other subjects (though we really didn't have that many AP subjects).

What I'm asking is that at a "smart" high school like say North Hollywood High, if there are like 300 really, really smart people in a class, can only 25 of them take AP History (or any other subject)? Or are there a number of AP classes to accommodate all the "smart" people in the same subject?

Am I making sense?

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At the "somewhat above average (on a good day)" high school that I teach at, they will accomodate great demand to take AP classes by creating more sections. This is good, in a way, but also not, in a way.

Some AP classes are watered down. The colleges should be looking at how the students do on the actual AP tests themselves, not simply how they did, grade-wise, in a bunch of AP classes, especially since grades, themselves, are often watered down.

About 7 or 8 years ago, Newsweek, not to be outdone by US News & World Report, came out with a list of Top 100 high schools. Their SOLE CRITERIA was number of AP classes TAKEN by students. Can you imagine how this further screwed things up?

AP classes are, in theory, under scrutiny by "AP Central". However, in reality, it kinda ends up being like the IRS scrutinizing everybody's tax returns.

calumnus;842106920 said:

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So last century.

California Prop 209 ended affirmative action at the UCs in 1996, i.e when Mooch was our coach.

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the thrust of the article -- as I read just enough of the 22k words to glean -- is that Asian applicants are being discriminated against by Ivy League admissions. I guess they'd gotten tired of writing about discrimination against white students.

calumnus;842106937 said:

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If you really want your daughter to get into Cal the best thing might be to transfer to a school (poor/rural/remote) that sends few kids to Cal where she will be in the top 1% of her class. I am semi-serious (I believe half the class is admitted based on "Local Context").

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My family tried that with me, and it backfired like you wouldn't believe. It really depends on the student. For me, I grew up going to schools where your social life in school was completely dependent on your academic success (i.e. nobody wanted to hang out with you if you didn't do well). When I wound up at a high school where getting B's was considered good and everyone was a major slacker, I fell into the same mold and ended up getting a 2.4 GPA freshman year. That pretty much killed any shot of getting into an elite non-UC, but luckily the UC's don't look at freshman year GPA. Ironically, my school barely had any AP classes, so I ended up taking the bulk of my classes the next few years at the high school across town that I would have been at to begin with, and wound up with a 3.5 overall unweighted GPA (killed my class rank) but a 4.4 UC weighted GPA...

My parents learned their lesson and we moved back into that school's district, and my brother wound up with a 4.0, 2390 SAT, 800s on all his SAT2s, and got into a bunch of Ivy's, furd, MIT, etc. So yeah, it really depends on how the student is motivated; by peers or by themselves.

P.S. All the other UCs except for Cal use a scoring rubric to determine your score (something like UC weighted GPA * 1000, max of 4500, + SAT score + highest SAT2 score + 500 if you're disdvantaged + 500 if your parents are military + up to 1000 for leadership exp, etc.). Max is something like 16000 pts. I don't know about now, but it used to be published on the UC website. Back when I applied I even had a friend who got rejected by UCLA but accepted on appeals because she pointed out that the score she calculated was higher than another friend's who had gotten in...turns out the admissions office miscalculated her score.

But can she defend the deep ball?

Boot;842107441 said:

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But can she defend the deep ball?

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Just live at Stern, and you won't have to worry about any balls going deep.

...

gocalbear;842106876 said:

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My daughter just recived her SAT scores today and I was wondering if they are good enough to get accepted into Berkeley?

Her 3 top schools of choice are:
1. Berkeley
2. Stanford
3. Davis

Her SAT scores are:

680 Reading
740 Math
700 Writing

760 Biology M

Any suggestion would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help!

---

My partner's daughter, a senior, just got accepted to Cal with a 1950 combined on her SATs and a 3.5 GPA, but she's a wiz at math, less so in a few other subjects. So sounds like your daughter has a shot with her grades and SATs. Have her take them more than once, and she can combine her best scores from each section.

pingpong2;842107445 said:

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Just live at Stern, and you won't have to worry about any balls going deep.

...

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Lol

Both of my kids graduated from Cal. Their paths to get in were so different.
My daughter was incorrigible in hs. She graduated at the very bottom of her class at Acalanes.
She graduated six years later from a local business college. Armstrong or Kennedy. She spent a couple of years as a legal secretary and then decided she wanted a four year degree, preferably from Cal Again she was a 1.9 gpa student from hs.
She got only A's at DVC and then wrote an amazing letter to admissions as to why she should get in. She dwelled on her 'awakening'. It was a hell of a letter. She got in. She graduated in 2002 in geography with a 3.9 gpa. BTW her younger brother graduated from Cal thirteen years earlier.

AirOski;842107627 said:

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My partner's daughter, a senior, just got accepted to Cal with a 1950 combined on her SATs and a 3.5 GPA, but she's a wiz at math, less so in a few other subjects. So sounds like your daughter has a shot with her grades and SATs. Have her take them more than once, and she can combine her best scores from each section.

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It seems like you do your best and then it's all voodoo magic from there. My son just got rejected even though he's #2 in his class (out of 250), has an honors GPA of 4.88, got 2210 on his SAT, got 5's on all his AP exams, and 34 on the ACT...

I got into Berkeley 45 years ago because in those days it was possible to be admitted simply on the basis of SAT and achievement test (what I think is now called SAT II) scores. Indeed, I owe my entire higher educational career to the Educational Testing Service's tests. Times certainly have changed.

gocalbear;842106876 said:

---

My daughter just recived her SAT scores today and I was wondering if they are good enough to get accepted into Berkeley?

Her 3 top schools of choice are:
1. Berkeley
2. Stanford
3. Davis

Her SAT scores are:

680 Reading
740 Math
700 Writing

760 Biology M

Any suggestion would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help!

---

Last semester at Cal here. I got in with a SAT score of...wait for it...1660!! hahahah. I would say SATs don't have a huge impact on your application. I got 1660 on my first test, retook and got 1620. Decided to take the ACTs and got 27.

I would say your personal statement is the BIGGEST factor along with GPA and extracurriculars. I got into fUCLA, UCSD, Cal, and UCD (all the UCs I applied to) probably cause I wrote one hell of a personal statement. Finished HS with a 4.2 GPA

Cal79;842107911 said:

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It seems like you do your best and then it's all voodoo magic from there. My son just got rejected even though he's #2 in his class (out of 250), has an honors GPA of 4.88, got 2210 on his SAT, got 5's on all his AP exams, and 34 on the ACT...

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Wow. Unbelievable.

freshfunk;842108039 said:

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Wow. Unbelievable.

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Agree. Unbelievable.

Cal79;842107911 said:

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It seems like you do your best and then it's all voodoo magic from there. My son just got rejected even though he's #2 in his class (out of 250), has an honors GPA of 4.88, got 2210 on his SAT, got 5's on all his AP exams, and 34 on the ACT...

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I'm sure he has some nice options with those stats.

Where will he attend?...