This thread needs to be closed.

Stanfurd fans have come onto our board and are ripping into our recent commits.

Duke = drunkoski

This kid might have all the makings of another Ryan Riddle/ Kenny Rowe for all we know. Good luck to the kid and wish him well as a future bear.

However,
losing Mixon or the El Cerrito gang to LA or OR will be an unmitigated disaster.

Hopefully we will get some solid qb play out of Kline or Goff and the recruits will
take notice that the last two years were an anomaly.

tommie317;842126854 said:

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Duke = drunkoski

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tommie317 = another conspiracy theorist with an overactive imagination. I couldn't stand drunk's unmitigated negativism and am glad he is gone.

I have also been falsely accused of being Barsky simply because I believe (along with Sandy Barbour) that the Athletics Department should produce a profit.

I have a few things I feel passionately about:

- Cal is the greatest university on earth
- Stanfurd is evil.
- Good people do not own or wear red things
- Cal not winning a Rose Bowl since 1938 is a tragedy. We should be winning Rose Bowls.
- The Athletics Department should stop losing money.
- Sonny Dykes seems like a really bright guy, but he isn't a savior until he actually saves us
- Cal academics need more new investments than athletics right now
- People who disagree with me about Jewish deli, pizza, and Banh Mi are wrong.

Are these positions really anathema? Or do you simply need a Drunk in your life, and now that he is gone you have simply assigned me his role?

The Duke!;842126941 said:

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tommie317 = another conspiracy theorist with an overactive imagination. I couldn't stand drunk's unmitigated negativism and am glad he is gone.

I have also been falsely accused of being Barsky simply because I believe (along with Sandy Barbour) that the Athletics Department should produce a profit.

I have a few things I feel passionately about:

- Cal is the greatest university on earth
- Stanfurd is evil.
- Good people do not own or wear red things
- Cal not winning a Rose Bowl since 1938 is a tragedy. We should be winning Rose Bowls.
- The Athletics Department should stop losing money.
- Sonny Dykes seems like a really bright guy, but he isn't a savior until he actually saves us
- Cal academics need more new investments than athletics right now
- People who disagree with me about Jewish deli, pizza, and Banh Mi are wrong.

Are these positions really anathema? Or do you simply need a Drunk in your life, and now that he is gone you have simply assigned me his role?

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Yes

Tedford;842126739 said:

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It doesn't matter if they are going after higher rated guys or not. The fact is they aren't landing any of them. Its been two and three star central.

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So, your position is that Sonny did not sign ANY four star guys last year?

And, your position is that NONE of the signings in this current class will be four star guys before their high school career is up?

Is that correct?

Jesus Christ, do people really think this coaching staff gives a damn about what Scout or Rivals ranks this kid? They made the offer because they think this player can make the team better. They are trying to get the best players at Cal, but Cal is at a point as a program where they are going to be closing on 3* talent for the most part. Tosh is gone and we sucked last season, we need some results on the field to change things. Until this staff shows the Cal program
Is on the upswing, the majority of Cal's recruits will be 3* players without offers from schools like Oregon or SC or Stanford. Cal is simply not at their level at this point, and whining about the reality of our situation does nothing to change it.

Besides, to be a 4*/5* player, recruiting services usually want a player participating in their combines, and if a recruit was hurt as a junior, I imagine that summer combine performance between junior/senior year will go a long way to determining what the ultimate ranking of the player is. More 3* rankings will be assigned to these players in short order, once they have some summer combine performance to evaluate.

vanity;842127017 said:

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Jesus Christ, do people really think this coaching staff gives a damn about what Scout or Rivals ranks this kid? They made the offer because they think this player can make the team better. They are trying to get the best players at Cal, but Cal is at a point as a program where they are going to be closing on 3* talent for the most part. Tosh is gone and we sucked last season, we need some results on the field to change things. Until this staff shows the Cal program
Is on the upswing, the majority of Cal's recruits will be 3* players without offers from schools like Oregon or SC or Stanford. Cal is simply not at their level at this point, and whining about the reality of our situation does nothing to change it.

Besides, to be a 4*/5* player, recruiting services usually want a player participating in their combines, and if a recruit was hurt as a junior, I imagine that summer combine performance between junior/senior year will go a long way to determining what the ultimate ranking of the player is. More 3* rankings will be assigned to these players in short order, once they have some summer combine performance to evaluate.

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This is not the way I see it.

I think if Sonny and Co. show an exciting brand of football that excites kids then they will be able to land players who have offers from schools like $c, oregon, etc...AND they will turn out to be players the staff feel will be excellent Bears AND they will turn out to be highly ranked.
The team will not need to be 8, 9, or 10 game winners for this to happen, in my opinion.

No whining here. I see bright days ahead soon:gobears:

This thread went from what should have been congratulatory to attacks on individual posters and lamenting of * ratings. Well done :headbang

vanity;842127017 said:

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Jesus Christ, do people really think this coaching staff gives a damn about what Scout or Rivals ranks this kid? They made the offer because they think this player can make the team better. They are trying to get the best players at Cal, but Cal is at a point as a program where they are going to be closing on 3* talent for the most part. Tosh is gone and we sucked last season, we need some results on the field to change things. Until this staff shows the Cal program
Is on the upswing, the majority of Cal's recruits will be 3* players without offers from schools like Oregon or SC or Stanford. Cal is simply not at their level at this point, and whining about the reality of our situation does nothing to change it.

Besides, to be a 4*/5* player, recruiting services usually want a player participating in their combines, and if a recruit was hurt as a junior, I imagine that summer combine performance between junior/senior year will go a long way to determining what the ultimate ranking of the player is. More 3* rankings will be assigned to these players in short order, once they have some summer combine performance to evaluate.

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You're making a few arguments here. I'll pick out one, the argument that we shouldn't expect anything but 3* talent. I sure hope that's not the case. If it is, Sonny is being overpaid because at a $2M+ salary, he should be expected to recruit well. So far, despite expensive coordinators (don't know what the position coaches are being paid) he's no Jim Mora on the recruiting front--and UCLA was sucking in Skippy's last few years at UCLA.

- he is expected to win. that is the reason for his salary, not his ability to pull 4* talent before he has coached a game at cal. yes, he is expected to recruit well, but 3* talent, with a smattering of 2* and 4* types, is a reasonable expectation for year 1.

if you expect a jim mora jr. type class, you're gonna have a bad time. dykes doesn't have the nfl pedigree, and cal is not located in los angeles.

Looperbear;842127050 said:

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You're making a few arguments here. I'll pick out one, the argument that we shouldn't expect anything but 3* talent. I sure hope that's not the case. If it is, Sonny is being overpaid because at a $2M+ salary, he should be expected to recruit well. So far, despite expensive coordinators (don't know what the position coaches are being paid) he's no Jim Mora on the recruiting front--and UCLA was sucking in Skippy's last few years at UCLA.

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- i don't necessarily disagree with that. yes, if we can craft the right narrative -- exciting offense, team on upswing -- we can compete with teams like ucla and oregon. but with the schedule cal has this season, it's going to be difficult to do that, as losing games trumps all to recruits.

and come on, without serious winning seasons, cal isn't pulling many kids from usc. maybe oregon, depending on how the chip transition goes, but when cal was at its best, we were pulling only sc afterthoughts anyway, with a couple exceptions. the last time cal beat usc for a top recruit was Djax. that is not -- and should not be -- cal's objective. with a superior strategy, cal doesn't need a team full of 5* players to win the pac. see oregon.

89Bear;842127023 said:

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This is not the way I see it.

I think if Sonny and Co. show an exciting brand of football that excites kids then they will be able to land players who have offers from schools like $c, oregon, etc...AND they will turn out to be players the staff feel will be excellent Bears AND they will turn out to be highly ranked.
The team will not need to be 8, 9, or 10 game winners for this to happen, in my opinion.

No whining here. I see bright days ahead soon:gobears:

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89Bear;842127009 said:

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So, your position is that Sonny did not sign ANY four star guys last year?

And, your position is that NONE of the signings in this current class will be four star guys before their high school career is up?

Is that correct?

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Bumping for "Tedford."

stanfurdbites;842127041 said:

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This thread went from what should have been congratulatory to attacks on individual posters and lamenting of * ratings. Well done :headbang

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Welcome to every commitment thread that ever existed.

89Bear;842127009 said:

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So, your position is that Sonny did not sign ANY four star guys last year?

And, your position is that NONE of the signings in this current class will be four star guys before their high school career is up?

Is that correct?

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chazzed;842127203 said:

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Bumping for "Tedford."

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OK, well I was willing to let it go but....

My position, 89, took exception with you lauding Dykes for simply "going after" the 4/5 star guys like that is worth mentioning. Who really cares if you go after players if they don't sign in the end? Nothing in recruiting matters except who you sign, and according to scout Sonny thus far has not landed one 4 or 5 star prospect.

My position is not he will never sign a 4 star guy. It's that thus far, recruiting is not at the level it needs to be for Cal to make a BCS push. This is the Pac-12, you can't build your program around only 2-3 star players and be anything more than middling. We need multiple blue chip recruits, and those are the 4/5 star guys by and large.

Dykes needs to do a lot better than he has so far. That's my stance. It's not that he CAN'T do it, or that he never will. It's just that to this point it hasn't happened yet.

Tedford;842127288 said:

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OK, well I was willing to let it go but....

My position, 89, took exception with you lauding Dykes for simply "going after" the 4/5 star guys like that is worth mentioning. Who really cares if you go after players if they don't sign in the end? Nothing in recruiting matters except who you sign, and according to scout Sonny thus far has not landed one 4 or 5 star prospect.

My position is not he will never sign a 4 star guy. It's that thus far, recruiting is not at the level it needs to be for Cal to make a BCS push. This is the Pac-12, you can't build your program around only 2-3 star players and be anything more than middling. We need multiple blue chip recruits, and those are the 4/5 star guys by and large.

Dykes needs to do a lot better than he has so far. That's my stance. It's not that he CAN'T do it, or that he never will. It's just that to this point it hasn't happened yet.

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This seems far too reasonable to be processed on this board.

From what I can tell, Sonny is a very smart and personable guy. He could end up being a lot better than Jeff Tedford. He could even be better than Chip Kelly or Jim Harbaugh for all we know. Or he could be worse than Tom Holmoe or Buddy Teevans. It is too early to tell. We just don't know at this point.

He may be Cal's savior, but not until he actually saves us. Until then, he is just a big question mark. This goes for recruiting just as much as academics and on field performance.

It is important to give him time. But it is also legitimate for you to point out the lack of elite recruits thus far.

vanity;842127059 said:

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and come on, without serious winning seasons, cal isn't pulling many kids from usc. maybe oregon, depending on how the chip transition goes, but when cal was at its best, we were pulling only sc afterthoughts anyway, with a couple exceptions. the last time cal beat usc for a top recruit was Djax. that is not -- and should not be -- cal's objective. with a superior strategy, cal doesn't need a team full of 5* players to win the pac. see oregon.

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Not true at all. Middling Cal teams competed with Oregon, UCLA, Stanford for recruits and won quite a few. There were also years Cal got a handful of players SC wanted... Im not just talking about last minute offers like with Treggs either. In hindsight it was mostly Tosh, but that doesn't change the fact we took many of the top dline/lb recruits away from SC... Gabe king, moala, moose, Jason
Gibson, whiteside (oh joy!), Martin (super oh joy!), Scarlett... Just off the top of my head.

I was just taking the consensus opinion. I like both Farmer and Harvey. However, Farmer is a 3 star on scout, ESPN and 24/7. Three out of four services.

Harvey as well is a 3 star on scout and rivals. Not yet ranked on ESPN. Once again though, here most of the services have leaned towards a three star ranking.


Again though, this isn't a bash on the recruits. This is a decent start. Who knows, as you say they may be upgraded later.

But I think it's fair to say the recruits Dykes has landed so far, by and large, will not cut it if he wants to compete seriously in the Pac-12.

Tedford;842127309 said:

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But I think it's fair to say the recruits Dykes has landed so far, by and large, will not cut it if he wants to compete seriously in the Pac-12.

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You must not follow recruiting very much. Oregon built a team from 3 stars that compete for championships.

ayetee11;842127311 said:

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You must not follow recruiting very much. Oregon built a team from 3 stars that compete for championships.

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Yeah, that's false. According to scout:

2007 - 11 4 stars
2008-6 4 stars, 1 5 star
2009- 6 4 stars
2010- 6 4 stars, 2 5 stars
2011- 11 4 stars, 1 5 star
2012- 9 4 stars, 1 5 stars
2013- 8 4 stars, 1 5 star

MoragaBear;842127314 said:

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Well, it's fair to say that's your opinion but many with background on these recruits would argue with you. These guys are legit and there's little to no reason in my mind and many others that players like this will lead Cal to an average or worse future.

Time will tell but it doesn't make much sense to me to draw definitive conclusions about these guys this early unless they legitimately look like average to worse players. If that's what you see in their size, speed, game film and programs they come from, that's what you see but you'll get a lot of argument from people that aren't just being knee-jerk homers.

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Fair enough.

Tedford;842127288 said:

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OK, well I was willing to let it go but....

... My position is not he will never sign a 4 star guy. It's that [U]thus far[/U], recruiting is not at the level it needs to be ... Dykes needs to do a lot better than he has [U]so far[/U]. ...

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[SIZE="3"][SIZE="3"]It's JUNE 1 ... wtf[/SIZE][/SIZE]

MoragaBear;842127314 said:

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Well, it's fair to say that's your opinion but many with background on these recruits would argue with you. These guys are legit and there's little to no reason in my mind and many others that players like this will lead Cal to an average or worse future.

Time will tell but it doesn't make much sense to me to draw definitive conclusions about these guys this early unless they legitimately look like average to worse players. If that's what you see in their size, speed, game film and programs they come from, that's what you see but you'll get a lot of argument from people that aren't just being knee-jerk homers.

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I think it's obvious that these armchair "analysts" are oblivious to size, speed and programs and have seen NO game film on our current and future verbals.

ykes :gobears:

Tedford;842127315 said:

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Yeah, that's false. According to scout:

2007 - 11 4 stars
2008-6 4 stars, 1 5 star
2009- 6 4 stars
2010- 6 4 stars, 2 5 stars
2011- 11 4 stars, 1 5 star
2012- 9 4 stars, 1 5 stars
2013- 8 4 stars, 1 5 star

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Which means Oregon has had over 30 4-5 star players on the roster every year for the last 4 years. So much for they do it with 3 stars canard.

SonOfCalVa;842127322 said:

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I think it's obvious that these armchair "analysts" are oblivious to size, speed and programs and have seen NO game film on our current and future verbals.

ykes :gobears:

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This is a sleeper from a school that regularly sends kids to D1 programs. You seem oblivious to the fact that he has been evaluated by other schools. Other than ISU and CU those schools just chose not to offer for whatever reason.

Darby;842127326 said:

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This is a sleeper from a school that regularly sends kids to D1 programs. You seem oblivious to the fact that he has been evaluated by other schools. Other than ISU and CU those schools just chose not to offer for whatever reason.

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So? On June 1, he doesn't have 10, 20, 30, 40+ offers.
You're a number of offers, number of stars kinda "fan" ... Just another BUT butt. :p

His credentials, personal, athletic and academic, are very sound.
Read MB's column.

ykes :gobears:

It seems to me that there are two issues here:

1) Outing himself, whom we should be happy about. It is very early in his development. No one has any idea where he will be ranked in several months.

2) The fact that we haven't landed any elite recruits under the Dykes regime (other than the ones who had already committed to Tedford). This is indeed a very serious concern, but it is too early to condemn Sonny and his staff right now. Give it a few months, and then get mad.

I think the issues got mixed up when some posters used this commitment to laud Dykes and Company for their recruiting prowess. This seems overblown. Others responded, and then all hell broke loose.

Any disappointment about the lack of elite recruits should not include specific mentions of Outing, as if he were not a good player. That seems unfair.

SonOfCalVa;842127329 said:

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So? On June 1, he doesn't have 10, 20, 30, 40+ offers.
You're a number of offers, number of stars kinda "fan" ... Just another BUT butt. :p

His credentials, personal, athletic and academic, are very sound.
Read MB's column.

ykes :gobears:

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The problem with your "analysis" is that this is a kid from Texas and his only reported Big 12 offer is from Iowa State. That is the definition of a sleeper. You are the one butt butting and blindly pumping. I am just reviewing the facts of the situation. He may develop into a great player like any recruit but right now he is on par with the guys Sonny signed last year.

Darby;842127333 said:

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The problem with your "analysis" is that this is a kid from Texas and his only reported Big 12 offer is from Iowa State. That is the definition of a sleeper. You are the one butt butting and blindly pumping. I am just reviewing the facts of the situation. He may develop into a great player like any recruit but right now he is on par with the guys Sonny signed last year.

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I think Sonny signed a very nice class.
You're entitled to your "facts". :rollinglaugh:
I think MB has a much closer view and more accurate assessment.
Enjoy your BUT butting. :p

SonOfCalVa;842127336 said:

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I think Sonny signed a very nice class.
You're entitled to your "facts". :rollinglaugh:
I think MB has a much closer view and more accurate assessment.
Enjoy your BUT butting. :p

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They are not my facts. They are Bob Stoops and Mack Browns facts but whatever feel free to pump away.

Btw, you said in another thread you didn't know who Everett Golson is. I am just curious, how much CFB do you actually watch? :rollinglaugh:

SonOfCalVa;842127321 said:

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[SIZE="3"][SIZE="3"]It's JUNE 1 ... wtf[/SIZE][/SIZE]

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Well I'm dating it back to 2012 too. You can say Dykes didn't have a fair shot last year, I guess, however most of the recruits he got weren't offered by anyone other than mid major schools. And he couldn't keep our highest rated recruit from leaving.

Seems like you attack any poster who isn't 100% positive all the time. At least other posters who support recruiting so far, like moraga, are objective. Its hard to take you serious.

Tedford;842127355 said:

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Well I'm dating it back to 2012 too. You can say Dykes didn't have a fair shot last year, I guess, however most of the recruits he got weren't offered by anyone other than mid major schools. And he couldn't keep our highest rated recruit from leaving.

Seems like you attack any poster who isn't 100% positive all the time. At least other posters who support recruiting so far, like moraga, are objective. Its hard to take you serious.

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Let's forget about last year's class for a moment.
So Tedford, what are the things that you do not like about the guys in this current class of 4? Do you see all four of them as being guys who are average to below average players by the time their senior seasons are over?

Tedford;842127355 said:

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Well I'm dating it back to 2012 too. You can say Dykes didn't have a fair shot last year, I guess, however most of the recruits he got weren't offered by anyone other than mid major schools. And he couldn't keep our highest rated recruit from leaving.

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He beat out Oklahoma for Cochran and kept Oklahoma from stealing our TE. Stole one from Iowa State. Stole Ragin from BYU and kept Oregon from stealing him. Stole Austin, although Boise State is a mid major. Secured almost the whole Oline class that has offers from other BCS conference schools.

ayetee11;842127363 said:

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He and his staff beat out Oklahoma for Cochran and kept Oklahoma from stealing our TE. Stole one from Iowa State. Stole Ragin from BYU and kept Oregon from stealing him. Stole Austin, although Boise State is a mid major. Secured almost the whole Oline class that has offers from other BCS conference schools.

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i concur... win/ and or compete and show up and everything will be fine struggling could bring some issues

gotta wait to see we are all riding shotgun take a chill pill... recruiting: its way way too early to say anything at all agreed ??? no