Time for our 2 jc ends to step up.

going with rehab on knee will he be ready for this season? or will kyle get in there i guess fall practice will be telling in so many ways ...

sycasey;842129413 said:

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Unfortunately, it looks like this is what Tedford's last few "great" recruiting classes are getting us: guys we recruited who aren't actually able to handle the academic load. The man was trying to save his job and sold academics out to do it.

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Why would you conclude McCain is not "able" to handle the academic load? He did so before.

GoldenBearofCalifornia;842129520 said:

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Why would you conclude McCain is not "able" to handle the academic load? He did so before.

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Define "handle". His academics have been an issue since his first day on campus.

The Duke!;842129468 said:

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I agree that Tedford and his staff failed to create and maintain a culture of accountability these past few years. But that being said, the primary responsibility for McCain's academic failings lie with McCain. He failed himself and the team. Hopefully he can pull it together.

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I would go a step further and say that McCain is entirely responsible for his academic issues. Just like every other student, it is McCain's responsibility to manage his academics. Further, he has the benefit of all of the academic support that the football team receives. Tedford did some things wrong, but blaming him because McCain did not study enough is ridiculous.

sycasey;842129495 said:

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I think part of the point here is that Tedford started running a much looser ship near the end of his time. Perhaps McCain stayed "eligible" last year, but as Dykes has come in he's finding these guys were doing worse than anyone thought and Tedford was letting it slide. He may well be cleaning up Tedford's mess here (and I suspect this is the case), much as, yes, Obama inherited Bush's mess and had to do some unpopular and short-term damaging things to try cleaning it up (which is not an excuse for every mistake Obama has made, but for the deficits run up in his term, yes it is).

I should also note here that I have no real inside information as to how Tedford was running things last year -- this is pure speculation on my part, based on what we do know.

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Ah, blame the predecessor. Always a good tactic. We (this board) used to do it for Tedford when the grad rates were "reflecting Holmoe recruits".

Earlier in the thread you speculated that Tedford went after more marginal guys to save his job. Mccain was a 2010 recruit which means he signed during an offseason where Tedford got an automatic contract extension. Kafusi (if he was an academic casualty) was in the 2009 class.

Now the speculation is that Tedford was letting academics slide last year or that Dykes somehow has a higher standard for academically eligible (it's an NCAA standard I believe). It's quite possible that Tedford got more lax with oversight on the academics.

However, in terms of maintaining eligibility, I'm not sure we should blindly blame it on the prior regime. These guys were eligible last year. I think they were eligible in the spring, which means they did well enough during the old regime to enter the first full semester of the new regime academically eligible. I'm not saying its necessarily the new regime's fault - we're talking about upper classmen who really should know how to stay eligible without having the staff (new or old).

GoldenBearofCalifornia;842129523 said:

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I would go a step further and say that McCain is entirely responsible for his academic issues. Just like every other student, it is McCain's responsibility to manage his academics. Further, he has the benefit of all of the academic support that the football team receives. Tedford did some things wrong, but blaming him because McCain did not study enough is ridiculous.

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+1
The players get a significant amount of academic support and it's up to the individual to capitalize on that...spot on GBC

GoldenBearofCalifornia;842129523 said:

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I would go a step further and say that McCain is entirely responsible for his academic issues. Just like every other student, it is McCain's responsibility to manage his academics. Further, he has the benefit of all of the academic support that the football team receives. Tedford did some things wrong, but blaming him because McCain did not study enough is ridiculous.

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Well said. Coaches shape the broader team culture, but it is up to each player to do his own part. McCain did not do his job.

I dont think anyone here is denying that McCain is to be blamed for this.

People are simply noting that McCain had these issues from Day 1 under Tedford's watch. Because Tedford recruited someone who's primary focus wasnt on studying, he bares some of the blame for bringing him onto the team knowing fully that this kid isnt the best in school. Still ultimately McCain's fault though.

Yes he might have been eligible by NCAA standards all these years. But seems like Dykes has a higher standard and/or McCain totally messing up.

socaliganbear;842129522 said:

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Define "handle". His academics have been an issue since his first day on campus.

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I have not previously heard of him having any academic issues prior to now. It is definitely possible that I missed that. Can you provide a link that provides information about his prior academic issues? He seemed to "handle" his academics in that he did well enough to remain eligible for every prior semester over the course of a few years. It seems strange to say that a guy who remained eligible for a few years is not "able" to handle the academics because he is now allegedly ineligible for a semester.

DLSbear;842129526 said:

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+1
The players get a significant amount of academic support and it's up to the individual to capitalize on that...spot on GBC

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Disagree to some extent. Yes McCain is responsible for his studies, but it's Tedford's, the athletic dept's, and the admission committee's responsibility to identify and admit players who have at least demonstrated the desire to take their studies seriously.

There has been a total systemic failure at Cal regarding our grad rate and Apr for football players. Tedford and his coaches (most notably Tosh and Keneick Thompson) failed to recruit players capable of succeeding on and off the field. If Tedford recruited a player who was slow and weak you would blame the coach for recruiting that player, not the player for being weak and slow. He also recruited a bunch of players who are barely literate and had no business being admitted to Cal even with their athletic prowess factored into the 'holistic' admission's process.

The athletic dept also failed for not stepping in and stopping Tedford from gettin some of these players admitted and for not doing a better job of anticipating this and preparing for it.

Finally, our admission's committee was a complete and utter failure in this process. It is their job to only admit student athletes who have a chance of academic success at cal. Instead they just let Tedford bully them into getting anyone and everyone he wanted admitted. If I were the Chancellor, I would fire every person in our admission's
Committee office. They have failed to protect the academic integrity of our university and for this reason they should all be fired. Every one of them.

GoldenBearofCalifornia;842129531 said:

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I have not previously heard of him having any academic issues prior to now. It is definitely possible that I missed that. Can you provide a link that provides information about his prior academic issues? He seemed to "handle" his academics in that he did well enough to remain eligible for every prior semester over the course of a few years. It seems strange to say that a guy who remained eligible for a few years is not "able" to handle the academics because he is now allegedly ineligible for a semester.

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Insider board. Anyway there has been a known group of players with highly questionable academics for a couple years now. He is one of them. This is not a surprise to people who have followed this issue. All I'm saying is hanging on and just barely getting by (until he couldnt) is not the same as "handling" it. Especially when it comes to course work at Cal.

Didn't McCain greyshirt to get his academics in order? McCain was a high academic risk recruit from day one.

Unit2Sucks;842129535 said:

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Didn't McCain greyshirt to get his academics in order? McCain was a high academic risk recruit from day one.

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Exactly.

It'll be interesting to see how Dykes handles Takk and Trey Cheek. Both guys are considered academic risks but both have shown dedication to get their studies in order so they can play for Cal.

I trust Dykes in ensuring these two graduate.

GoldenBearofCalifornia;842129531 said:

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I have not previously heard of him having any academic issues prior to now. It is definitely possible that I missed that. Can you provide a link that provides information about his prior academic issues? He seemed to "handle" his academics in that he did well enough to remain eligible for every prior semester over the course of a few years. It seems strange to say that a guy who remained eligible for a few years is not "able" to handle the academics because he is now allegedly ineligible for a semester.

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These allegations were raised and proven in "the Bear Insider" Insider double secret FISA Court. Of course all records remain sealed so you will have to take my word for it.

SmellinRoses;842129469 said:

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Yes, Tedford was truly awful off and on the field (ah yes - the brilliant game management in the Ohio State game) - remarkable how many folks on this board defended him regardless.

I digress, taboo to discuss the man anymore. Move on!!

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Yep, I saw our first team PAC 12 kicker missing all three field goals - can't figure out how Tedford couldnt see how our first team all PAC 12 kicker was capable of that before the game started - horrible game management

Cal Panda Bear;842129529 said:

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I dont think anyone here is denying that McCain is to be blamed for this.

People are simply noting that McCain had these issues from Day 1 under Tedford's watch. Because Tedford recruited someone who's primary focus wasnt on studying, he bares some of the blame for bringing him onto the team knowing fully that this kid isnt the best in school. Still ultimately McCain's fault though.

Yes he might have been eligible by NCAA standards all these years. But seems like Dykes has a higher standard and/or McCain totally messing up.

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Dykes follows NCAA eligibility standards not some higher ethic of his own - player could sue the school if he was eligible by NCAA standard but ruled ineligible by the institution. -

bearblast;842129555 said:

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Dykes follows NCAA eligibility standards not some higher ethic of his own - player could sue the school if he was eligible by NCAA standard but ruled ineligible by the institution. -

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McCain has been suspended from the team, not ruled inelgible.

hanky1;842129532 said:

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Disagree to some extent. Yes McCain is responsible for his studies, but it's Tedford's, the athletic dept's, and the admission committee's responsibility to identify and admit players who have at least demonstrated the desire to take their studies seriously.

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I disagree, 100% the students fault. How can anyone identify how a student will change once in college.

ayetee11;842129562 said:

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I disagree, 100% the students fault. How can anyone identify how a student will change once in college.

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ABSOLUTELY :p
How can anyone even suggest that the head coach, making millions of dollars, year after year, has ANY responsibility for the student-athlete ???? :headbang

Gawd, what do people expect for a few million (or more) bucks a year (year after year)?
The head coach is responsible for WINNING FOOTBALL GAMES ... omg
... oops

:blush :blush :blush :blush

It's sad to see two guys who have been here a while struggling like this. It's their future and I hope they figure things out and turn around whatever stuggles they have in a positive way for themselves.
Once you are in school and have an opportunity like graduating from Cal the vast majority of people will benefit by taking advantage if it.
Cal needs to continue to invest and beef up our recruiting efforts to identify student athletes of character, personal responsibility and work ethic that will value an opportunity from the top public University in the world. It means a lot to graduate from California.
In the grand scheme of things it's not that hard!!!

SchadenBear;842129544 said:

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These allegations were raised and proven in "the Bear Insider" Insider double secret FISA Court. Of course all records remain sealed so you will have to take my word for it.

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Wiki-leaker

ayetee11;842129562 said:

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I disagree, 100% the students fault. How can anyone identify how a student will change once in college.

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Why do you think he "changed"? He was here because he is a football player not a sterling student.

Coach Dykes is following through on discipline. And it should not matter if the student athlete is a starter or not on the depth chart. If McCain weeds himself out then best of luck to him elsewhere. The team is better off with everyone doing what they know they need to do.

Suggestion to Cal student/athletes who need foreign language requirement completed prior to graduating Cal...get it done at a JC over the summer and not at Cal. I would be willing to bet money that a high number of student athletes who do not graduate Cal and fall short a class or two of graduating fell short because of not completing the foreign language requirement....yeah Cal has difficult foreign language classes...imagine that!!

Just wondering b/c you guys were talking about JC transfers. Can you guys name some of the JC transfers in the class of 2013? Just wanna look them up (highlights and stuff) for fun.

icecream12345;842129586 said:

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Just wondering b/c you guys were talking about JC transfers. Can you guys name some of the JC transfers in the class of 2013? Just wanna look them up (highlights and stuff) for fun.

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Kyle Kragen, Sione Sina, Marcus Manley, and Drake Whitehurst

Cal Panda Bear;842129529 said:

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I dont think anyone here is denying that McCain is to be blamed for this.

People are simply noting that McCain had these issues from Day 1 under Tedford's watch. Because Tedford recruited someone who's primary focus wasnt on studying, he bares some of the blame for bringing him onto the team knowing fully that this kid isnt the best in school. Still ultimately McCain's fault though.

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Basically this. Yes, it is McCain's fault that he personally could not keep his academics up to snuff. However, it does seem that there has been a systemic problem in the latter half of Tedford's tenure in keeping his players strong in academics. The individuals are responsible for themselves, as always, but when there are a lot of academic problems (which are reflected in the most recent APR numbers) then there is something wrong at the top -- either the coaching staff is recruiting the wrong guys or not handling academics well while they are here or something.

This isn't all about blaming the predecessor. I don't think Dykes has been around long enough to have a particularly large effect on the team's academic performance (at least not one that is measurable). I also give credit to Tedford for the improvement the football team saw in academic numbers in the first half of his tenure. It's not that JT was always bad; it's that he did all the right things at first and then we saw it slip away.

SacBear87;842129583 said:

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Coach Dykes is following through on discipline. And it should not matter if the student athlete is a starter or not on the depth chart. If McCain weeds himself out then best of luck to him elsewhere. The team is better off with everyone doing what they know they need to do.

Suggestion to Cal student/athletes who need foreign language requirement completed prior to graduating Cal...get it done at a JC over the summer and not at Cal. I would be willing to bet money that a high number of student athletes who do not graduate Cal and fall short a class or two of graduating fell short because of not completing the foreign language requirement....yeah Cal has difficult foreign language classes...imagine that!!

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Or they could just do it in hs. Most CA hs require you to do two years of a foreign language...which transfers over to the UC system

bearblast;842129442 said:

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You sound like an Obama voter blaming Bush - Mccain was academically eligible under Tedford, this past semester was entiely under Dykes - But this is not a Dykes or Tedford issues, it is a Chris McCain issue. But blowing classes this last semester has NOTHING to do with Tedford - McCain was eligible for three years somehow under Tedford, so he did demonstrate an ability to handle the academic load. He battled injury - for the average person on this board to knock kids who have to endure surgery apart from family support and keep up their grades at Cal while the rehab their way back to elite D-1 performance status is ridiculous, we have no idea what that world is like. Just saying

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Why do some poster's have to turn everything into a political issue.

Just remember there are plenty of republicans and democrats and independents who are true blue Cal fans. By making the issue political you manage to insult and irritate Cal fans who do not share your view point (including me).
Are those posters "small tent" Cal fans who do not want to welcome Cal fans of different political views. Lincoln referred to this as "politics of subtraction" He preferred "politics of addition" what is now called "Big Tent" politics.

The "small tent" Cal fans should beware. Without Cal fans of all stripes, they will not be able to keep Memorial Stadium filled, enough seats sold, and Division 1 football in Berkeley.

[Note: I tried to keep anything political out of my comments. I cannot promise that for later posts on similar topics.]

Cal Panda Bear;842129597 said:

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Or they could just do it in hs. Most CA hs require you to do two years of a foreign language...which transfers over to the UC system

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Basic UC Admissions requires only 2 years of high school Foreign language to be admitted as a freshman. If a high school student does 3 years of HS foreign language then that satisfies the UC undergrad requirements for a BA. But I would guess that football student athletes are not doing the 3rd year of foreign language in HS so they need to get that done by completing one year of college level foreign language at UC or a JC. It is the UC foreign language classes that are really difficult to pass.

As a UC football coach if you admit the HS athlete that only has 2 years of foreign language then you can set up your football program for low grad rates because of this foreign language requirement to graduate UC. My guess is that Tedford admitted these minimally qualified HS football players which set up the program for low grad rates on the back end...this is what we see with the most recent APRs for Cal. This is a major reason Tedford is out, but the AD AND UCB admissions should have already seen this trend happening long before and put a stop to recruiting lower qualified student athletes...

The sad thing is that the 3rd year of HS foreign language need only be passed with a C- or higher in order to satisfy this UC BA grad requirement. So early on in the recruitment process coaches need to be stressing the importance of getting that 3rd year of FL completed in HS for the benefit of everyone involved.

The problem is a high school football recruit will qualify for other Pac-12 schools with only 2 years FL, and completing any FL requirement to graduate with a BA at these other schools will be easier too. (with the exception of UCLA and Furd). This is a reason the Cal degree is worth more than these other schools...

MB -- When a player like McCain gets suspended indefinitely for academic reasons, does he lose his access to the extraordinary academic support available only to football players? Is he still allowed to use the SAHPC facilities and weight room? Is he still on scholarship?

Or is he really suspended from all the privileges and benefits of being an athlete unless and until he pulls things together on his own?

SacBear87;842129668 said:

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Basic UC Admissions requires only 2 years of high school Foreign language to be admitted as a freshman. If a high school student does 3 years of HS foreign language then that satisfies the UC undergrad requirements for a BA. But I would guess that football student athletes are not doing the 3rd year of foreign language in HS so they need to get that done by completing one year of college level foreign language at UC or a JC. It is the UC foreign language classes that are really difficult to pass.

As a UC football coach if you admit the HS athlete that only has 2 years of foreign language then you can set up your football program for low grad rates because of this foreign language requirement to graduate UC. My guess is that Tedford admitted these minimally qualified HS football players which set up the program for low grad rates on the back end...this is what we see with the most recent APRs for Cal. This is a major reason Tedford is out, but the AD AND UCB admissions should have already seen this trend happening long before and put a stop to recruiting lower qualified student athletes...

The sad thing is that the 3rd year of HS foreign language need only be passed with a C- or higher in order to satisfy this UC BA grad requirement. So early on in the recruitment process coaches need to be stressing the importance of getting that 3rd year of FL completed in HS for the benefit of everyone involved.

The problem is a high school football recruit will qualify for other Pac-12 schools with only 2 years FL, and completing any FL requirement to graduate with a BA at these other schools will be easier too. (with the exception of UCLA and Furd). This is a reason the Cal degree is worth more than these other schools...

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Hopefully, now, people providing "academic support" have a clear understanding of each player's academic status including areas of need such as a 3rd year of FL as well as other areas needing assistance.
It seems we're concentrating on and getting athletes who know how to study and who want to graduate from Cal. I really don't care if we don't put another player into the f'ing NFL.

Are there any stats out there that compare football academic casualties to the general student population?

As an undergrad, I knew a few people that weren't prepared for the academic rigors of Cal and dropped out. It wouldn't surprise me if the general student body failure rate is higher than the Cal football player failure rate.