hoop97;842165638 said:

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One minor rule adjustment would be to disallow staff coming on the field to give the other players water, or letting the players run to the sideline while the injured player is being treated.

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Good suggestion. It's the least that the powers that be should change.

CalBearsWinNC;842165465 said:

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We have no room to talk. We started it. I cannot blame NU. Smart strategy IMO.

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We started it?

We might have been the most obvious but we didn't start it by any means.

This is also the entertainment industry. To have all of these likely unnecessary delays turns off a crowd and many tv sets. Another reason why this shady practice needs to be addressed.

We had a coach suspended and were taken to task for it in the national media. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the same treatment here. The most important thing is that this CAN be ruled unsportsmanlike conduct, and it needs to get enough attention in our case that the PAC-12 (which has a significant interest in creating advantages for up-tempo teams) talks to the guys reffing our games about it. As we see with the targeting rule, if there's a clear way they're supposed to deal with it they'll call the penalty even if it's over the top. Right now they're uncomfortable calling unsportsmanlike conduct on injuries, but the NCAA/league could change that with clear instructions about how to deal with it.

The fact is, the rules about substitutions are at a cross-roads right now, because this is a new problem with all the up-tempo teams that exist. There WILL be a rule change in one direction or the other: The NCAA will either decide that you're entitled to a substitution on every play or that you're not. Any up-tempo team needs it to be the latter. In hockey if you're tired but the other team has the puck in your zone, you can't get a line change. That's how plenty of sports work. If the offense is ready to line up and play without a subsitution, the defense should have to do the same IMO.

Good idea about sitting out the rest of the quarter or the rest of the half. if you need assistance off the field you shouldn't return to the game. A little hypocritical for Cal to complain since we cheated in the exact same fashion. Fakegate will be more common as hurry up offenses proliferate. What if Oregon is in the BCS championship and some SEC team is playing hide the stretcher? Officials need to act on this without waiting for a rule change. Some people compared the NU players to the Europussies and the Latin drama queens that play futbol. In soccer, though, faking injuries is a penalty. Not called much but can get you a yellow card.

NJCalFan;842165462 said:

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I think if a coach has a complaint that he thinks is legitimate he takes it to the NCAA for a review where players and coaches are questioned. But I think when you are on the field that you give the team and coaches the benefit of the doubt.

But I strongly advise us as Cal fans to keep it "old school" and politely clap for the (pause) injured (pause) player.

I hope our fan base can be more classy than Oregunn's.

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I actually disagree. After it became clear that we had faked injuries (I was in denial for a bit) I thought Oregon fans had every right to boo us. Whether or not it's within the rules, it's a bush league tactic and has no place football.

Larry Scott is just a money guy. He came from professional tennis. He is good at what he does--making money for the conference. Don't expect Scott to enforce the legitimacy of football or basketball in the Pac 12. Officials need to act on their own to penalize the cheaters by not allowing players to return after injuries or throwing a delay of game penalty on the fakers. Let the cheaters like Fitzgerald complain all they want about the penalties for delay. Flag should have been thrown on the NU bench. The ref knew what was going on.

CalBearsWinNC;842165508 said:

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And we still cannot complain. If we were innocent, we could talk but we're not.

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I think we have every right to complain. We had one rogue assistant coach who acted without JT's authority. I don't believe that's the case with NW. Plus, after it was discovered that we did fake injuries, the overwhelming reaction by fans was that it was pathetic and embarrassing. Lupoi was rightly disciplined and we moved on. Only a few people still tried to defend it at that point.

I have seen nothing but excuses from NW fans. Most of them on the Tivals board are in complete denial still, and unless someone can put together the video evidence like Oregon fans did against Cal, they will continue to believe their innocence against all reason.

Why? Are we going to make the injury worse by booing? We are booing their coaches and the officials, not the players who are just following orders.

For the first time I really get where the Oregon fans were coming from - man that was annoying as hell. Ridiculous and embarrassing for NU. I do however cringe when we boo an "injured" player because you just don't know if that time it might be real. It makes us look bad. Our only defense is we only started booing after the third or fourth time NU pulled this.

Like I care what their fans think? I know what I saw and anyone with a brain knows they were faking. Fitzgerald can lie till he's blue in the face. You think he cares that we know he is a fraud? If the refs aren't calling penalties for unsportsmanlike conduct and delay of game on the fakers the practice will continue. It is a good strategy. We almost beat OU and NU beat us using hide the stretcher.

I just want to get this straight. There is absolutely no consequence for a player to fake an injury right? Why not do it if it helps you win?

CalBearsWinNC;842165465 said:

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We have no room to talk. We started it. I cannot blame NU. Smart strategy IMO.

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We didn't start it. I remember part of the reason Oregon fans were so pissed with us is that Stanfurd did it to them the week before. And I don't think 'Furd was the first either...

CalBearsWinNC;842165508 said:

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And we still cannot complain. If we were innocent, we could talk but we're not.

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Interesting question, who is "we"? The coaching staff, the strength and conditioning staff, the players... do "we" have a single person remaining in the program from that game? (Honest question).

^my thoughts exactly. I keep hearing we this and we that....but the "We" that everyone is referring to have been flushed from the program. And once it was exposed that "We" we're faking injuries....there was some action taken.

Unit2Sucks;842165526 said:

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I don't think it had any impact on the game and to be honest I didn't think we were running plays very quickly. Not once did we go into the much ballyhooed "attack mode."

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Totally, 100% disagree. We had them on their heels. The fake injuries totally took our offense out of our game (which we need to improve on).

Quote:

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If anything, the fake injuries extended the game by giving us additional time outs.

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Wrong again, the fake injuries meant Northwestern didn't have to call a time out. They simply faked an injury. We didn't need timeouts, they did. They are the ones who benefited from this tactic, it's not even debatable.

Quote:

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The real injury problem once again is with our team - we lost a number of defensive players in this game to injury and if we can't keep those guys healthy we'll be seeing a lot more high scoring games.

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That I can agree with. Hope the news on Fortt, Sebastian, Jalil (who didn't even play) etc is not bad...

Calcoholic;842165680 said:

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I actually disagree. After it became clear that we had faked injuries (I was in denial for a bit) I thought Oregon fans had every right to boo us. Whether or not it's within the rules, it's a bush league tactic and has no place football.

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So you thought it was fine when Oregon booed when Sean Cattouse was lying on the field out cold after being taken out by a vicious illegal cross-back block by an Oregon WR?

elpbear;842165729 said:

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We didn't start it. I remember part of the reason Oregon fans were so pissed with us is that Stanfurd did it to them the week before. And I don't think 'Furd was the first either...

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Both ASU and furd did it against Oregon earlier in the season. The Oregon offense still rolled in those games, so Duck fans didn't think it was any big deal. Cal was a tight game where their offense was being stifled by Cal's penetrating line (and Tipoti was a horrible actor), so it became an issue.

I don't really have a problem with faking injuries. It's a natural response to the the hurry-up offense, and it's up to the officials to determine whether or not to call a foul for it. Just like fouling at the end of a basketball game is considered part of the game, even though everybody (including the refs) knows it's really intentional and the rules call for the fouled team to get shots and the ball.

BearsWiin;842165746 said:

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I don't really have a problem with faking injuries. It's a natural response to the the hurry-up offense, and it's up to the officials to determine whether or not to call a foul for it. Just like fouling at the end of a basketball game is considered part of the game, even though everybody (including the refs) knows it's really intentional and the rules call for the fouled team to get shots and the ball.

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That's a really bad analogy, for a lot of reasons.

NU got unlimited free timeouts by faking injuries. Maybe we should just let teams have unlimited timeouts.

Since it keeps getting stated that officials can call a penalty; HAVE officials EVER called a penalty for 'excessive injurificiation'? I don't recall ever hearing about such a thing.

burritos;842165719 said:

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I just want to get this straight. There is absolutely no consequence for a player to fake an injury right? Why not do it if it helps you win?

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Sportsmanship. If that has no value, then yes, doing whatever you can get away with to win makes most sense.

cubzwin;842165691 said:

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Why? Are we going to make the injury worse by booing?

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Sportsmanship...

my god.

cubzwin;842165700 said:

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Like I care what their fans think? I know what I saw and anyone with a brain knows they were faking. Fitzgerald can lie till he's blue in the face. You think he cares that we know he is a fraud? If the refs aren't calling penalties for unsportsmanlike conduct and delay of game on the fakers the practice will continue. It is a good strategy. We almost beat OU and NU beat us using hide the stretcher.

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So, when Oregon ran a pick and injured our best corner (who didnt return for two weeks) it was OK for them to boo because the "know what [they] saw?"

Ridiculous.

Your last two posts are pretty damn stupid.

elpbear;842165759 said:

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That's a really bad analogy, for a lot of reasons.

NU got unlimited free timeouts by faking injuries. Maybe we should just let teams have unlimited timeouts.

Since it keeps getting stated that officials can call a penalty; HAVE officials EVER called a penalty for 'excessive injurificiation'? I don't recall ever hearing about such a thing.

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It's up to the officials. And I expect they'll be looking for it going forward, and calling it if they see it.

Linemen try to get away with as much holding as possible without getting called for it. Defensive backs try to get away with as much bumping and handchecking as they can without getting called for it (OSU's aggressive DB play was a big reason Aaron Rodgers went 9 of 34 for 56 yards against the Beavers the week after Cal beat USC in 2003; Cal did something similar to UW in their victory in Seattle the year before). It's not unheard of to push the rules and challenge the referees to call you on it; in fact, it's rather common. Faking injuries is just the most recent thing, and it's a direct response to the hurry-up offense which is in itself an effort to push the rules on how fast you can get plays off.

i emailed and got a reply from espn's Ivan Maisel concerning the faking injuries. He said that he wanted to research it more and look into it. hopefully he writes a column on it.

tim94501;842165154 said:

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I was ready to fight every nw fan in section d.

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there was a near-fight in Section D last night. Somewhere around Row 18 or 20, I'd guess. A big guy in a black 49ers baseball cap was getting into it with another smaller guy. I have no idea what the disagreement was about.

But the body language indicated that the situation was on the verge of escalation. Suddenly, the big guy in the 49ers hat left as did a few others in the immediate vicinity, not to return.

elpbear;842165759 said:

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That's a really bad analogy, for a lot of reasons.

NU got unlimited free timeouts by faking injuries. Maybe we should just let teams have unlimited timeouts.

Since it keeps getting stated that officials can call a penalty; HAVE officials EVER called a penalty for 'excessive injurificiation'? I don't recall ever hearing about such a thing.

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It's called "unsportsmanlike conduct". 15 yard penalty.

But unless it's outright taunting or an unnecessary hit, game officials are reluctant to call "unsportsmanlike conduct".

hanky1;842165163 said:

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Fitzgerald cramping up during his press conference while answering questions about fake injuries.

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hahaha

I just thought it was interesting that on one of the injuries, NU's training staff was half way across the field, then stopped because they realized that the player wasn't down yet. However, once they retreated, a NU player was down.

I mean, if you are going to have "planned" injuries, then at least get the players, staff, and bench in sync. Don't they practice these things?

How about if the player is deemed to be faking an injury after reviewing the video, the commissioner will suspend player for 2 quarters the following game. It may not help the game that is being played but you will think twice about doing it if you lose the player for the next game.

Brainsmile;842165938 said:

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How about if the player is deemed to be faking an injury after reviewing the video, the commissioner will suspend player for 2 quarters the following game. It may not help the game that is being played but you will think twice about doing it if you lose the player for the next game.

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player and coach should have to sit out

gobears725;842165970 said:

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player and coach should have to sit out

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I'm not sure there is really any way to know if someone has a legitimate injury or a faux injury.

I think what should be done is simply charge the team a regular time-out if more than one injury happens during any particular drive or more than two in a half. So one injury - fine. A team starts rolling and, oops, another injury... time-out charged. Team has four injuries in a quarter, mo more time-outs for them. It seems the only fair way to do it. If there are no more time-outs, than you give a 5 yard delay of game penalty for the injury time.

one of the injuries was blatant on replay. he walked off the field limping and then when he got to the sideline he shooed the trainers away. he also forgot what was hurt as he then started favoring his shoulder and not his leg. could easily assess a penalty after the game on that one.

Calcoholic;842165680 said:

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I actually disagree. After it became clear that we had faked injuries (I was in denial for a bit) I thought Oregon fans had every right to boo us. Whether or not it's within the rules, it's a bush league tactic and has no place football.

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nice revisionist history....


Oregon was booing us when they took our CB out for two games with an illegal pick early in the game...

Oregon was not booing our "fake" injuries. They were booing every injury, from the first snap to the last snap. They had been booing injuries the entire season up to that point, as well.

OTOH, Cal fans typically are completely ignorant of anything that happens outside of memorial stadium.

gobears725;842165803 said:

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i emailed and got a reply from espn's Ivan Maisel concerning the faking injuries. He said that he wanted to research it more and look into it. hopefully he writes a column on it.

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I texted a friend last night about it saying it was "less obvious but higher frequency" than Cal vs Oregon.

He mentioned it right at the top of his recap on the blog.

Phantomfan;842166002 said:

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I texted a friend last night about it saying it was "less obvious but higher frequency" than Cal vs Oregon.

He mentioned it right at the top of his recap on the blog.

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awesome glad theres some chatter about it