called him the "long term" answer....according to Hunter Hewitt

unfu**ingbelievable

emanbears24;842208255 said:

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called him the "long term" answer....according to Hunter Hewitt

unfu**ingbelievable

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Worse than Tedford in that goff doesn't have any 5 star relatives

I am not happy but I am not apoplectic. Goff can throw some VERY nice passes. More worrisome is that I don't think this "system" is really that great.

Weird. I see what he's doing. But he's basically giving up on winning any games the rest of this season -- for the sake of the future. Goff can make plays. But Goff cannot lead an offense under these conditions right now. I am not sure if Kline can do it either. But why not try, esp. knowing that what you are going to get is bad production (on the scoreboard, not the stat line) each week? I couldn't care less about what kind of stats he is going to produce for TFS.

He is essentially forcing Kline to transfer.

emanbears24;842208255 said:

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called him the "long term" answer....according to Hunter Hewitt

unfu**ingbelievable

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Ha. My freshman year was 93. We had the 9-0 with Barr, 2 Big Game wins before the Big Drought. Then the fumble, Mooch, and Holmoe.

I always saw the Old Blues look at me with this "Son, you don't know what misery is!" look on their face.

Now I know. I'll be in my seats for UofA and $C. Grinning and bearing it. Got 50+ more years of this ahead of me.

Go Bears.:gobears:

Nothing against Goff...but I just think Kline should get a chance to prove himself before Dykes hands over the program to Goff

Well we bought the snake oil they were selling, time to pack up the tent.

MiltyBear;842208272 said:

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Well we bought the snake oil they were selling, time to pack up the tent.

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Lone Ranger and Tonto ride into the canyon. Suddenly on the hills appear the entire Arapaho, Apache, Navajo, and Cheyenne nations.

"Tonto, what are we going to do"
"What you mean we, white man"

hhnate - I'm from the same era and this feels all too familiar ... even Holmoe won 3 games his first year - 2 conference games ... Looks like Dykes will not reach that lofty standard - more concerning EVERY GAME is a BLOW OUT. Best game = a 14 point loss AT HOME to a NW team that is now 0-4 in the B10. Dykes may deserve more time BUT it is looking pretty bad ...

Honestly I don't think Kline would do much better - but I'm not a big fan of sticking with what's really not working so ...

There goes the QB competition. Told you guys it was lip service. He just wanted to preempt all the talk about when Kline will start.

This coaching staff is a joke.

freshfunk;842208283 said:

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There goes the QB competition. Told you guys it was lip service. He just wanted to preempt all the talk about when Kline will start.

This coaching staff is a joke.

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The QB competition was more rigged than the Zimbabwe election.

Kline must have said or did something during practice last week that really pissed off Dykes. I don't blame Dykes for sticking with what he thinks best. But I question whether he's such a great thinker, not based on his QB decision today, but on his play calling and staff hiring. It's going to be a long 2-3 years before a new coach & new hope.

pingpong2;842208287 said:

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The QB competition was more rigged than the Zimbabwe election.

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In Soviet Russia, election rig YOU.

I wonder if Sonny has thin skin? Maybe McCain mouthed off - and he was gone. Maybe Kline wanted to play more - and now he may never. Whoo hoo - this is great Cal football drama. Tune in Wednesday on the Pac-12 Networks for a very special. . . THE DRIVE.

I think we should hold off till watching the tape. My guess is that he was asked the question in the Press conference. Honestly Goff was not the problem. It is the fairly pedestrian play calling and a severe mismatch (I guess) between what you need to run this system and who we have.

I would have liked to see how the team responded to Kline but I thought that generally we played with the fire I think Zach brings and simply were overmatched - both in talent and on the sidelines,

(the more I think about it you absolutely have to have a guy who is a great 210-220 pnd running back who FORCES the safety to come up to help with the run support. That, in turn, allows the WR to be matched up one on one with the CB and puts them at risk, every play, of having the dinks go to the house if the tackle is missed)

HungryCalBear;842208293 said:

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Kline must have said or did something during practice last week that really pissed off Dykes. I don't blame Dykes for sticking with what he thinks best. But I question whether he's such a great thinker, not based on his QB decision today, but on his play calling and staff hiring. It's going to be a long 2-3 years before a new coach & new hope.

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Doubt it. I don't see Kline acting up like this. The only thing I can see is Kline saying he's transferring and I don't think he's said it this early.

Sonny knows a large part of the fan base wants to see Kline. He doesn't think Kline is the guy and he's accepting a 1-11 season. So he's preempting the press by shutting down the QB competition.

It's a pretty bold move that might result in him losing over more of the team. Kline looks like he's getting royally f*cked over.

BearTerritory1995;842208281 said:

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Honestly I don't think Kline would do much better - but I'm not a big fan of sticking with what's really not working so ...

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I get the guys that say the backup QB is the most popular guy on the team....I get that.

At the same time, if we're 1-6 and haven't covered the spread....? To quote Robert Stack at the end of Airplane!: "Pull a lever. Push a button!!"

Goff was 32 of 54 with at least three drops and really nothing spectacular in the catch category. I don't think he played poorly at all and I didn't see the "flatness" that I had seen previously. I actually LIKE the new OL look - we did some things better.

Yes, these are baby steps but I don't have any problem supporting a guy who threw 60% completion rates and didn't have a pick (and didn't have a forced throw that would have led to a pick)

The only reason to play Kline is to see if he is a game player rather than a practice one. The reason to play Goff is because, by the time he hits junior year _IF_ we make some changes in "the system" he could be good.

(What changes? Recognizing that PAC-12 safeties are a LOT faster than Wac's and so you HAVE to force teams out of cover 2).

socaltownie;842208306 said:

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Goff was 32 of 54 with at least three drops and really nothing spectacular in the catch category. I don't think he played poorly at all and I didn't see the "flatness" that I had seen previously. I actually LIKE the new OL look - we did some things better.

Yes, these are baby steps but I don't have any problem supporting a guy who threw 60% completion rates and didn't have a pick (and didn't have a forced throw that would have led to a pick)

The only reason to play Kline is to see if he is a game player rather than a practice one. The reason to play Goff is because, by the time he hits junior year _IF_ we make some changes in "the system" he could be good.

(What changes? Recognizing that PAC-12 safeties are a LOT faster than Wac's and so you HAVE to force teams out of cover 2).

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The funny thing is, many see things 100% the same way. It's just a question of, what do we have to lose by seeing if Kline is a 'gamer'?

It's like expected value in investments: based on the body of work so far, we have an 85% chance of losing $10, or a 15% chance of making $50 (admittedly, these are my biased payout scenarios). Why not take the chance?

Considering the circumstances of the oline, Goff didn't do too bad... some of the real killers were the drops especially 3rd/4th down... those are on the receivers. I was impressed of Goff's end zone pass to Harper... that was probably more luck than anything else

mechaniCAL;842208321 said:

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Considering the circumstances of the oline, Goff didn't do too bad... some of the real killers were the drops especially 3rd/4th down... those are on the receivers. I was impressed of Goff's end zone pass to Harper... that was probably more luck than anything else

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might as well give him credit for the throw though. was one of the best throws hes made all year

socaltownie;842208306 said:

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Goff was 32 of 54 with at least three drops and really nothing spectacular in the catch category. I don't think he played poorly at all and I didn't see the "flatness" that I had seen previously. I actually LIKE the new OL look - we did some things better.

Yes, these are baby steps but I don't have any problem supporting a guy who threw 60% completion rates and didn't have a pick (and didn't have a forced throw that would have led to a pick)

The only reason to play Kline is to see if he is a game player rather than a practice one. The reason to play Goff is because, by the time he hits junior year _IF_ we make some changes in "the system" he could be good.

(What changes? Recognizing that PAC-12 safeties are a LOT faster than Wac's and so you HAVE to force teams out of cover 2).

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This is the first sane thing I have read tonight. After the first quarter, Goff was very good. His intermediate to long throws are NFL quality. I think of the 25 yarder to Treggs from the goal line that arrived half a yard before the safety got there, the perfect 35 yard lofted ball to Treggs (or was it Harper) down the left sideline, and the amazing back shoulder throw of about 25 yards to Treggs. After so many years of crappy quarterbacking, I would be pissed if an amazing quarterback life Goff were benched because Cal fans can't face the reality that the rest of the team is not very good. And you remember those three drops (Treggs, then Powe, then Harris) because they killed three drives. As Gisele said, Goff can't catch his own passes.

The pass blocking looked a lot better. I think Goff started trusting it as the game progressed and that is why he improved. If receivers actually got some separation (not sure if it is their ability or the play calling, but almost every play requires a nearly perfect pass) I think Goff could get up to 70%.

I look forward to watching Goff improving the rest of the season, and maybe, perhaps, you never know, a win over Colorado. Do we still want their coach?

Sluggo

sluggo_Cal;842208334 said:

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This is the first sane thing I have read tonight. After the first quarter, Goff was very good. His intermediate to long throws are NFL quality. I think of the 25 yarder to Treggs from the goal line that arrived half a yard before the safety got there, the perfect 35 yard lofted ball to Treggs (or was it Harper) down the left sideline, and the amazing back shoulder throw of about 25 yards to Treggs. After so many years of crappy quarterbacking, I would be pissed if an amazing quarterback life Goff were benched because Cal fans can't face the reality that the rest of the team is not very good. And you remember those three drops (Treggs, then Powe, then Harris) because they killed three drives. As Gisele said, Goff can't catch his own passes.

The pass blocking looked a lot better. I think Goff started trusting it as the game progressed and that is why he improved. If receivers actually got some separation (not sure if it is their ability or the play calling, but almost every play requires a nearly perfect pass) I think Goff could get up to 70%.

I look forward to watching Goff improving the rest of the season, and maybe, perhaps, you never know, a win over Colorado. Do we still want their coach?

Sluggo

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Agree 100% Goff did well. I jumped off my sofa for that throw from the end zone to Harper. But at the end of the day, he found the end zone once. For argument's sake, say he's a B+ grade tonight.

Now Kline might be an A. He might be a C too. Or a D. But we won't know until he's in there and gets the chance. And at 1-6...do you really think giving Goff those extra reps makes a material difference to the long-term success of our program, to not take a chance and see what's on the bench?

We saw ZK's added mobility at the end of the OSU game. I'd like to see that added element to our offense's play. Move the chains and give the defense a chance to rest.

hehatenate;842208341 said:

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Agree 100% Goff did well. I jumped off my sofa for that throw from the end zone to Harper. But at the end of the day, he found the end zone once. For argument's sake, say he's a B+ grade tonight.

Now Kline might be an A. He might be a C too. Or a D. But we won't know until he's in there and gets the chance. And at 1-6...do you really think giving Goff those extra reps makes a material difference to the long-term success of our program, to not take a chance and see what's on the bench?

We saw ZK's added mobility at the end of the OSU game. I'd like to see that added element to our offense's play. Move the chains and give the defense a chance to rest.

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A B+ for Goff is fair.

The coaches saw Kline in the spring, then in the fall, then in this week's competition. They know. With all the problems that the team has, there is no reason to add a quarterback "controversy," with the quotes because there is no controversy at all. Plus even though the team is not going anywhere, I think it matters that they finish as strong as possible. Stay the course.

Sluggo

I'm not sure this helps Goff. It's continuing to put the pressure (and criticism) on Goff every week. Will his confidence be shattered? I bet Goff has had thoughts of wanting coach to pull him the last few weeks. It may be a really rough last few weeks of the season for young Goff.

KoreAmBear;842208359 said:

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I'm not sure this helps Goff. It's continuing to put the pressure (and criticism) on Goff every week. Will his confidence be shattered? I bet Goff has had thoughts of wanting coach to pull him the last few weeks. It may be a really rough last few weeks of the season for young Goff.

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What criticism? Internet message boards? Maybe if his coaches criticized him, but the rest is just background noise. Or at least that is how I would think about it if I were he.

I would also think I am a freshman, I am starting in the pac12, I have already set the Cal single game yardage record, and the NFL will have a big contract waiting for me in a few years. No reason to get down.

Sluggo

socaltownie;842208306 said:

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I actually LIKE the new OL look - we did some things better.

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sluggo_Cal;842208334 said:

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The pass blocking looked a lot better.

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Where was the OL better? 5 sacks allowed, making it the highest sack total all year. I counted 5 tackles for loss; there might well have been more (I stopped paying full attention some time in the third quarter). Several of the nice passes/completions by Jerad (and many of the incompletions) came under great pressure with him being hit right after release. The run game (and run blocking) was almost completely absent until Khalfani's big run late against 3rd stringers which easily more than doubled the rushing total. Jared ran more than usual (2nd highest # of carries; just one less than Ervin) because the pocket kept collapsing. OL <<< Jared.

BearTerritory1995;842208281 said:

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Best game = a 14 point loss AT HOME to a NW team that is now 0-4 in the B10.

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I had to check that is true. Given the rest of Northwestern's schedule (@ 5-2 Nebraska, vs 6-1 Michigan, vs 7-1 Michigan State, @ Illinois), they could well finish 1-7 in conference.

sluggo_Cal;842208371 said:

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What criticism? Internet message boards? Maybe if his coaches criticized him, but the rest is just background noise. Or at least that is how I would think about it if I were he.

I would also think I am a freshman, I am starting in the pac12, I have already set the Cal single game yardage record, and the NFL will have a big contract waiting for me in a few years. No reason to get down.

Sluggo

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Sounds good in theory but I have seen his pressers after games and on The Drive and he seems to take losses hard, as if it were all his fault. Young guys tend to do that.

mechaniCAL;842208321 said:

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Considering the circumstances of the oline, Goff didn't do too bad... some of the real killers were the drops especially 3rd/4th down... those are on the receivers. I was impressed of Goff's end zone pass to Harper... that was probably more luck than anything else

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I'm not trying to defend Dykes anymore because I think the offensive system sucks and puts the defense on the field too much, but I don't get all the stuff coming down of Goff. Yeah he was pretty bad before, but last nigh he didn't commit a TO and ran out of trouble several times. He was sacked too much and his QBR is 32, for some reason, but I doubt Kline would have done any better.

Nasal Mucus Goldenbear;842208373 said:

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Where was the OL better? 5 sacks allowed, making it the highest sack total all year. I counted 5 tackles for loss; there might well have been more (I stopped paying full attention some time in the third quarter). Several of the nice passes/completions by Jerad (and many of the incompletions) came under great pressure with him being hit right after release. The run game (and run blocking) was almost completely absent until Khalfani's big run late against 3rd stringers which easily more than doubled the rushing total. Jared ran more than usual (2nd highest # of carries; just one less than Ervin) because the pocket kept collapsing. OL <<< Jared.

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Actually the drive where we scored our first TD, the run blocking was solid, and Ervin used the blocking for some good tough yards. That was one of the best non-big play drives of the season.

HungryCalBear;842208293 said:

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Kline must have said or did something during practice last week that really pissed off Dykes. I don't blame Dykes for sticking with what he thinks best. But I question whether he's such a great thinker, not based on his QB decision today, but on his play calling and staff hiring. It's going to be a long 2-3 years before a new coach & new hope.

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Speaking of play calling.
Question:
When we get a good gain but no first down on first down what play will we call on second?

You guessed it!!!! Run up the middle.

P.S.

Has anyone else noticed that not only is the Franklin system not working, were not even running it anymore, watch closely. This is the second week I noticed this. Of course it may be simply because it hasn't been working.

My suspicion has always been that if your running only a few plays over and over eventually this can not work for obvious reasons but at least run it right. Washington threw 3-5 yard passes all day on us. We routinely (I'm guessing) throw passes much longer. Is this the Franklin system?

The craziest thing is, now, Buh is our best coach. Yikes!!!!

Putting hinder in there almost seems like he was trying to make a statement. I really hope this wasn't personal. Yeah, it was uber garbage time, but under these "controversial" circumstances, why fuel the fire? Which leads me to believe he doesn't think much at all, and that's a big problem. Not only that, but now you've got a top qb on the bench with perhaps even less confidence. And what happens win goff gets injured,which is more likely than possible with our luck and oline? You bring Kline in until goff recovers and we get longshore 2.0, in goff.

Agree. I expect Kline to transfer. Hinder to be the backup next year while Rubenzer is developed. He cannot have 2 Qbs in the same class (frosh). He has chosen Goff and Kline must be pushed out.