MiltyBear;842225421 said:

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I just hope they will have better coaching soon.

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You willing it to happen and a million posts on the subject won't make it so.

staygolden2001;842225279 said:

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Interesting comment from Goff after the game.


Goff said the Bears have wholesale changes to make before next season.

"We need to change our mentality about stuff, [U]the way we practice[/U]," he said. "We're going to need to change a bunch of stuff if we want to be successful next year."

link

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11 games in and they need to change their mentality on practice. Coaching failure.

dimitrig;842225362 said:

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The defense is the bigger issue.

However, I am VERY concerned that he is not improving. I would have expected for him to throw for twice as many yards against Colorado - and he did not manage to throw a single TD!

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He's been bad on the road all year.

Last week was his best game. He's hot then cold. I don't see a continuous slump in his performance, rather a lack of consistency.

dimitrig;842224995 said:

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He looked very promising when the season started, but as he has gained experience he has regressed. He looked like the QB of the future (and he may still be) but I would open the competition back up in the spring.

3.8 yards/attempt on a night against a bad defense and when the backs were running the ball with the receivers we have?

Either Goff isn't the guy or the TFS system sucks! Or both!

Yes, he is a freshman and he should improve a lot, but... man... he is regressing in my eyes. He has a full season of experience by now!

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Goff isn't accurate beyond 15 yards at most and he doesn't put much zip on the ball. Watch the games we played, especially after Oregon. Most of the long passes only have one defender who works to use the sideline to rub the receiver out. There is no fear of a long pass over the middle being accurate. The safeties instead are rolling up to blow up the screen and quick-out passes that seem able to go for 3-5 yards, but that's about it.

Supposedly TFS is about YAC, but the passes thrown usually have no chance of any long yards because its either too slow arriving and the defense can set up, or it isn't accurate, and the receiver can't catch the ball in stride.

Sadly, I don't think Goff is a good enough QB to make things work. If he's honestly better than Kline than we better how Luke Rubenzer is good because otherwise we have 3-4 more seasons of futility. (I'm assuming that any first year QB in this system will stink as bad if not worse than Goff did overall. yes we will probably see Goff break some Cal single season records, but they are meaningless and I hope every HS coach considering paying for the TFS looks at its real results on the field and refuses to pay a penny for a system that cannot work against any decent defense.)

mvargus;842225536 said:

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The safeties instead are rolling up to blow up the screen and quick-out passes that seem able to go for 3-5 yards, but that's about it.

Supposedly TFS is about YAC, but

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This is the ugliest short pass offense I have ever seen. We are lucky if they gain 3 yards. This team, this year, YAC is a negative statistic. I wonder what % of our short passes go for negative yards. I would think about 1/3 of them. Particularly yesterday.

And won't someone please gripe about our choice to throw 5 yards down field on 3rd and 10!

I am certainly not a qb coach. But I've watched qb alot through helping and working with Zach and helping find him coaches, camps etc for 13 years. So I've pretty much exclusively watched qb play along the way. So I guess I've picked up a little. My comments here assume Jared is the guy chosen long term as they have said. So I am not taking a position about my son or Austin in any way. With that said, I think everyone should cut Jared some slack right now. Sure it's been a tough season. Wheels have come off the bus. And that has effected his development. So has running game, OL issues and D injuries issues that all contribute to him playing from behind against a D that knows what he is going to do. He threw with much more confidence early in the year. I suspect he will do that again after an offseason "reset". Qb play is like none other in football. It is 90% mental. And unfortunately it's also 90% physical. That's tough math. Keep in mind that this system doesn't seem to ask that the qb be a charismatic leader. The offense doesn't go as the qb goes. Instead the qb is a cog in the machine. When that machine was humming, Jared had confidence and timing etc and did really well. See first three game. It's like the first time you go put to play golf. Most people don't suck first time and think it easy. Then the second and third time out the issues start. Defenses started adjusting, taking run game away etc. But Jared showed he can do this. I am not making or taking a position that he can do it better than anyone else on roster - just addressing his perceived "regression". He showed he can do it. And I think he can again. So let's not overblown his "regression".

mvargus;842225536 said:

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Goff isn't accurate beyond 15 yards at most and he doesn't put much zip on the ball. Watch the games we played, especially after Oregon. Most of the long passes only have one defender who works to use the sideline to rub the receiver out. There is no fear of a long pass over the middle being accurate. The safeties instead are rolling up to blow up the screen and quick-out passes that seem able to go for 3-5 yards, but that's about it.

Supposedly TFS is about YAC, but the passes thrown usually have no chance of any long yards because its either too slow arriving and the defense can set up, or it isn't accurate, and the receiver can't catch the ball in stride.

Sadly, I don't think Goff is a good enough QB to make things work. If he's honestly better than Kline than we better how Luke Rubenzer is good because otherwise we have 3-4 more seasons of futility. (I'm assuming that any first year QB in this system will stink as bad if not worse than Goff did overall. yes we will probably see Goff break some Cal single season records, but they are meaningless and I hope every HS coach considering paying for the TFS looks at its real results on the field and refuses to pay a penny for a system that cannot work against any decent defense.)

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This is pretty much what I am left feeling too.

If the TFS is to work at this level, every edge possible might be needed. From the QB spot, a guy who is fast to set, has a quick release and with some pace on the ball. All of this is to speed-up the time for the ball to get to the receiver, affording him more time (and space) to get YAC. Of course the passer needs to be accurate. We've heard about Zach throwing too hard, but we've heard that from the some of the greats too. The sooner the ball can get to intended the target the better. The receivers, besides being fast and elusive, might also need to be ideally bigger than what we have. Maybe we don't need such elite wr's, but it would certainly seem to help. They would need to be able to catch hard-thrown balls. OC's in the NFL don't tell the likes of Elway, Favre, Manning and Rodgers to take pace off the ball or sit. The receivers need to learn to catch darts because having a fraction of a second advantage can allow for the necessary space for plays, or bigger plays to happen...

If the TFS, as we know it today, will thrive at this level, it would seem that getting the ball to the wr ASAP is a must. A strong-armed QB who is accurate is a hot commodity though too.

I said this in another thread a week or so ago, but I would not be surprised if SD / TF go shopping for a QB next year. Someone with years already, possibly experience too (JC ranks or even a transfer in).

MisterNoodle;842225182 said:

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Their guy threw for like 375, with two wideouts over 100.

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Also a FR. Who did NOT have spring practice, and who set a personal record.

Maybe we weren't playing on the same field.

YROYOdad;842225584 said:

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I am certainly not a qb coach. But I've watched qb alot through helping and working with Zach and helping find him coaches, camps etc for 13 years. So I've pretty much exclusively watched qb play along the way. So I guess I've picked up a little. My comments here assume Jared is the guy chosen long term as they have said. So I am not taking a position about my son or Austin in any way. With that said, I think everyone should cut Jared some slack right now. Sure it's been a tough season. Wheels have come off the bus. And that has effected his development. So has running game, OL issues and D injuries issues that all contribute to him playing from behind against a D that knows what he is going to do. He threw with much more confidence early in the year. I suspect he will do that again after an offseason "reset". Qb play is like none other in football. It is 90% mental. And unfortunately it's also 90% physical. That's tough math. Keep in mind that this system doesn't seem to ask that the qb be a charismatic leader. The offense doesn't go as the qb goes. Instead the qb is a cog in the machine. When that machine was humming, Jared had confidence and timing etc and did really well. See first three game. It's like the first time you go put to play golf. Most people don't suck first time and think it easy. Then the second and third time out the issues start. Defenses started adjusting, taking run game away etc. But Jared showed he can do this. I am not making or taking a position that he can do it better than anyone else on roster - just addressing his perceived "regression". He showed he can do it. And I think he can again. So let's not overblown his "regression".

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Kudos to you sir. This post was all class and spot on. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Cal89;842225586 said:

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This is pretty much what I am left feeling too.

If the TFS is to work at this level, every edge possible might be needed. From the QB spot, a guy who is fast to set, has a quick release and with some pace on the ball. All of this is to speed-up the time for the ball to get to the receiver, affording him more time (and space) to get YAC. Of course the passer needs to be accurate. We've heard about Zach throwing too hard, but we've heard that from the some of the greats too. The sooner the ball can get to intended the target the better. The receivers, besides being fast and elusive, might also need to be ideally bigger than what we have. Maybe we don't need such elite wr's, but it would certainly seem to help. They would need to be able to catch hard-thrown balls. OC's in the NFL don't tell the likes of Elway, Favre, Manning and Rodgers to take pace off the ball or sit. The receivers need to learn to catch darts because having a fraction of a second advantage can allow for the necessary space for plays, or bigger plays to happen...

If the TFS, as we know it today, will thrive at this level, it would seem that getting the ball to the wr ASAP is a must. A strong-armed QB who is accurate is a hot commodity though too.

I said this in another thread a week or so ago, but I would not be surprised if SD / TF go shopping for a QB next year. Someone with years already, possibly experience too (JC ranks or even a transfer in).

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Our WRs need to learn how to block. I haven't seen a good one this year, otoh, every big opponent play outside seems to have great WR blocking.

NYCGOBEARS;842225650 said:

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Kudos to you sir. This post was all class and spot on. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

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Yep. I hate it when the greens start playing a. 2 deep zone when I'm expecting man, and those fairway zone blitzes can kill you.

(I think you must have played best ball in a foursome your first time out, made a couple of putts and thought you contributed).

biely medved;842225653 said:

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Our WRs need to learn how to block. I haven't seen a good one this year, otoh, every big opponent play outside seems to have great WR blocking.

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+1

Did our wr coach come from la tech? Or somewhere else where wr blocking is so critical?

Some of it is that defenses are better prepared for him now that we've shown little ability to run the ball effectively. Also, trying to make a career of coming back from 21 point deficits is not conducive to success.

biely medved;842225657 said:

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Yep. I hate it when the greens start playing a. 2 deep zone when I'm expecting man, and those fairway zone blitzes can kill you.

(I think you must have played best ball in a foursome your first time out, made a couple of putts and thought you contributed).

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Actually hit a big drive then had a beer when got to the greens. :-).

biely medved;842225653 said:

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Our WRs need to learn how to block. I haven't seen a good one this year, otoh, every big opponent play outside seems to have great WR blocking.

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Our receivers blocked exceptionally well under Wes Chandler. A pretty stark contrast...

Teams figured out how to defend us.

YROYOdad;842225584 said:

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I am certainly not a qb coach. But I've watched qb alot through helping and working with Zach and helping find him coaches, camps etc for 13 years. So I've pretty much exclusively watched qb play along the way. So I guess I've picked up a little. My comments here assume Jared is the guy chosen long term as they have said. So I am not taking a position about my son or Austin in any way. With that said, I think everyone should cut Jared some slack right now. Sure it's been a tough season. Wheels have come off the bus. And that has effected his development. So has running game, OL issues and D injuries issues that all contribute to him playing from behind against a D that knows what he is going to do. He threw with much more confidence early in the year. I suspect he will do that again after an offseason "reset". Qb play is like none other in football. It is 90% mental. And unfortunately it's also 90% physical. That's tough math. Keep in mind that this system doesn't seem to ask that the qb be a charismatic leader. The offense doesn't go as the qb goes. Instead the qb is a cog in the machine. When that machine was humming, Jared had confidence and timing etc and did really well. See first three game. It's like the first time you go put to play golf. Most people don't suck first time and think it easy. Then the second and third time out the issues start. Defenses started adjusting, taking run game away etc. But Jared showed he can do this. I am not making or taking a position that he can do it better than anyone else on roster - just addressing his perceived "regression". He showed he can do it. And I think he can again. So let's not overblown his "regression".

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After a night of questioning the changing nature of the Cal community and my own personal enjoyment of Cal football afar 30 years, this one post by you has lifted a cloud. I can't tell you how classy it is for you to come here and speak fairly about the program and Jared. Fantastic.

I hope that we turn this program so that you, your son, and the other high character members of the team are rewarded.

YROYOdad;842225584 said:

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I am certainly not a qb coach. But I've watched qb alot through helping and working with Zach and helping find him coaches, camps etc for 13 years. So I've pretty much exclusively watched qb play along the way. So I guess I've picked up a little. My comments here assume Jared is the guy chosen long term as they have said. So I am not taking a position about my son or Austin in any way. With that said, I think everyone should cut Jared some slack right now. Sure it's been a tough season. Wheels have come off the bus. And that has effected his development. So has running game, OL issues and D injuries issues that all contribute to him playing from behind against a D that knows what he is going to do. He threw with much more confidence early in the year. I suspect he will do that again after an offseason "reset". Qb play is like none other in football. It is 90% mental. And unfortunately it's also 90% physical. That's tough math. Keep in mind that this system doesn't seem to ask that the qb be a charismatic leader. The offense doesn't go as the qb goes. Instead the qb is a cog in the machine. When that machine was humming, Jared had confidence and timing etc and did really well. See first three game. It's like the first time you go put to play golf. Most people don't suck first time and think it easy. Then the second and third time out the issues start. Defenses started adjusting, taking run game away etc. But Jared showed he can do this. I am not making or taking a position that he can do it better than anyone else on roster - just addressing his perceived "regression". He showed he can do it. And I think he can again. So let's not overblown his "regression".

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Agreed. This is on the coaches, not Goff.

dimitrig;842224995 said:

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He looked very promising when the season started, but as he has gained experience he has regressed. He looked like the QB of the future (and he may still be) but I would open the competition back up in the spring.

3.8 yards/attempt on a night against a bad defense and when the backs were running the ball with the receivers we have?

Either Goff isn't the guy or the TFS system sucks! Or

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Neither

MiZery;842538401 said:

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Neither

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Lol well done

Love that zach's dad was the voice of reason defending Goff! Classy dude.

Whew. Glad I didn't comment on this thread looking like an idiot (I have other threads for that).