It would have been better, OP, if you offered reasons that this coach would lead the team to greater success next year. You chose not to. Right now we are staring at or walking away from a huge pile of rubble never seen before at Cal. I stayed to the end yesterday. Damn it. And what I saw was our coach deciding to punt repeatedly because his only goal was to keep the score down. Unbelievably, HE STILL FAILED. He got his money. He can handle the criticism he now so completely deserves.

movielover;842232304 said:

---

[Editorial Note: I am not Sonny, his wife, or Kline's Troll Father.]

If you can name one who has had an improvement with a team in Diapers, let us know. I'm serious. Team, year, coach, improvement achieved.

The Bears had numerous Freshmen starting at key positions, not All Americans or even 2nd string players.

OLine - 3 Freshmen

QB - Freshman, and backup a Frosh

MLB - a 4th string Frosh?

These are just 3 examples. I know there are issues with defensive coaching,

and the transition was hard for those recruited by long-term position coaches.

Go ahead. Whack away.

P.S. Yes, there needs to be a big step up this next year, not Rose Bowl, but marked, visible improvem






I did not see all of these teams but read a lot about CFB history - can not address number of frosh but here is what I have. Teams which overcame severe adversity. Note frosh not eligible till early seventies as I recall.


Iowa State 1959. Coaches started with 55 players in August. Brutal camp, many injuries, many quit including best player - All American LB. Started season with 30, suited up as few as 23 due to injuries. Went 7-3. Very undersized team with no quit. Came to be known as the Dirty Thirty due to their mud covered uniforms after a win in the mud. Still revered by Cyclone fans. granted Stapleton was second year coach.

SMU - 1976 - Ron Meyer's first year. Now granted he was probably already cheating but that roster was down to 45 ( this in era of 85 scholarships) by mid season . Injuries plus brutal August camp. They only went 3-8 but you could sense he was building something. Lost to Texas 13-12 in Austin. Upset Arkansas in finale. Played a ton of freshmen. I can think of four frosh who started on defense.


TCU 1971 - do not have injury totals but one of my buddies who was a third generation TCU player says they were ravaged with injuries and going nowhere. Obliterated by Penn State 66-14, Baylor is next and first year coach Jim Pittman dies of a heart attack during game. TCU rallies and wins that one and 4 of last five. 6-4-1.

There are others but you get the idea.

OaktownBear;842232330 said:

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I've got worst season in history to bolster my argument. You need a better counter. Like one positive on the field. Not excuses. One positive. Good luck finding it.

---

Goff broke the Cal passing record. One positive on the field. Spin it as you like. It's a positive.

JSML;842232550 said:

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Goff broke the Cal passing record. One positive on the field. Spin it as you like. It's a positive.

---

It's not hard to spin. Goff barely broke the passing yardage record. He shattered the pass attempts record. He threw 531 times. Next closest in Cal history is 422. If Maynard had thrown 531 times and averaged what he did per pass last year, he would have passed for 450 yards more than Goff did this year.

Meanwhile, look at passing efficiency. The following QB's who were primary starters were more efficient than Goff:

Senior Maynard
Junior Maynard
Senior Riley
Junior Riley
Senior Longshore
Junior Longshore
Sophomore Longshore
Senior Rodgers
Junior Rodgers
Junior Robertson
Senior Boller.

The following QB's who were primary starters were less efficient:

Sophomore Riley
Junior Ayoob.

Lot of QB's on the top list spent their seasons with fans screaming for them to be replaced.


Sorry, but seeing Goff getting the passing yardage record by passing it 25% more than the next closest QB as a positive reminds me of Tom Tolbert's theory. He always said that when he sees a statistic like a team has always won when they run the ball 30 times or more, why don't they just line up and run the first 30 plays and guarantee victory. Thing is, Tolbert is kidding and people here aren't.

OaktownBear;842232571 said:

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It's not hard to spin. Goff barely broke the passing yardage record. He shattered the pass attempts record. He threw 531 times. Next closest in Cal history is 422. If Maynard had thrown 531 times and averaged what he did per pass last year, he would have passed for 450 yards more than Goff did this year.

Meanwhile, look at passing efficiency. The following QB's who were primary starters were more efficient than Goff:

Senior Maynard
Junior Maynard
Senior Riley
Junior Riley
Senior Longshore
Junior Longshore
Sophomore Longshore
Senior Rodgers
Junior Rodgers
Junior Robertson
Senior Boller.

The following QB's who were primary starters were less efficient:

Sophomore Riley
Junior Ayoob.

Lot of QB's on the top list spent their seasons with fans screaming for them to be replaced.


Sorry, but seeing Goff getting the passing yardage record by passing it 25% more than the next closest QB as a positive reminds me of Tom Tolbert's theory. He always said that when he sees a statistic like a team has always won when they run the ball 30 times or more, why don't they just line up and run the first 30 plays and guarantee victory. Thing is, Tolbert is kidding and people here aren't.

---

It's still spin. You asked for an on field positive. That is one.

JSML;842232580 said:

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It's still spin. You asked for an on field positive. That is one.

---

Sorry. It is not. It ain't spin. It's called thinking. By your formulation, it would be a positive if he threw it 1000 times for 3.6 yards an attempt. An inefficient passing game that produces the worst yards per play in over a decade but breaks the season passing yards record by throwing it 100 times more than any other time in history is not a positive.

That is as logical as touting your offensive system by hiring an offensive line coach who was fired from Henderson State and then claiming your system enabled him to get a job in the Pac-12.

OB is all over it.

Goff broke two Cal records this year (both previously held by Pat Barnes). He did so simply because he threw the ball more than any Cal QB in history.

In the single game passing record, he threw it 59x to get his 504 yards. He had a crappy 56% completion rate against the worst passing D in the conference, next to our D of course. Pat Barnes' 503 yards was in a quadruple OT victory where he threw for 76% (35/46). A masterful performance. Even with 4 OT's, he still threw the ball 13 fewer times than Goff...

As for the season, same thing. Goff threw 111 more times to break the record... If he wouldn't have been yanked in the Oregon games, the record would have been broken two games ago. BFD.

Completion %, QBR, Y/A are deemed to be the best QB metrics to ascertain quality play. As I said before, we are near the bottom. And as much grief many like to give Maynard, and he was not a good QB, even his numbers were better Goff's. Caveat it that he was a freshman if one wants, but our passing game is not good. Put a true freshman in a proset with more responsibilities, and more challenging passes, the numbers are likely to get worse.

True freshman Liufau came-in off the bench mid-season and has been pretty decent. I wouldn't say good, but all things considered quite respectable: 61.5%, 133.8 (QBR) and 7.5 (Y/A). All of these are better numbers than our starter...

If the only "spin" we can muster is some BS raw yardage figure that is simply a by-product of many wasted plays, there is clearly no meaningful indication that this team improved throughout the season.

Cal89;842232383 said:

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Let's not get carried away and say our passing game was good this year. Our completion % is in the bottom 25% for our conference, as is our TD to INT ratio.

Comparing Goff to Maynard, now that season is done:

Goff

Completion % = 60.3
QBR = 123.2
Y/A = 6.6
TD / INT = 18/10

Maynard

Completion % = 60.8
QBR = 130.3
Y/A = 7.5
TD / INT = 12/10

Compared to the conference, we are not a good passing team this year, unless good is in the bottom 25%. Our starter compared to last year's, who is generally considered a poor QB, has very comparable stats, actually a little worse...

---

Some people on this board will argue that your comparison is BS because Goff is a true freshman QB.

BearNIt;842232352 said:

---

Florida and Georgia Southern are two teams that had a lot of injuries. Florida lost 12 starters and 25 players have missed games due to injuries and Georgia Southern has lost 19 of their 65 scholarship players to injury this year. While Florida didn't improve, neither they or Georgia Southern are using injuries as an excuse either. By the way, both teams have a lot more wins than Cal does. It's the job of the coach that we're paying $2.3 million dollars a year to make the needed adjustments required to get more than 1 win a year, to show some type of improvement throughout the season. By his own admission, Dykes hasn't seen any improvement on the field. We're still out of position, missing tackles, unable to score in the red zone, giving 40+ points a game, giving up over 500+ yrds a game in total offense, giving up multiple 20+ yrds a plays, have below average production in the running game and giving up multiple sacks each game. What has Sonny & Co. done this year to garner the support of the Cal fan base? He looks and sounds defeated after feeding the Cal fan base sunshine and rainbows. He sounds like he doesn't have a clue what to do to fix this.

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Did either of those teams start the season under a completely different system and coaching staff and did they start a true freshmen QB?

HKBear97;842232482 said:

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Great example! And then look at this year where WSU is bowl eligible. There is a staff that has led to improvement.

What we've seen at Cal this year is not improvement.

---

Apples and oranges. Using a second year achievement of another team as the measuring stick for CAL coaching staff doesn't cut it. This was their first year.

cal2000;842232599 said:

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Some people on this board will argue that your comparison is BS because Goff is a true freshman QB.

---

First response: As this staff proudly states - "Are you a freshman or a football player!?". They sold it, I like it, now deal with it.

Second response: Of course he was true freshman - that is who the staff chose to start.

Third response: It has been said that this is a very simple offense to run, less responsibility than a more traditional offense, like what JT ran.

Fourth response: The aforementioned Liufau for the Buffs, a true freshman too, is actually performing better, on what was as worse team than ours last year.

And, before someone says (again), but Goff was sacked so much, had so much pressure. Sacks per attempted pass, we are in the middle of the conference. And, compared to last year, our 34 sacks this year was less (41 in 2012).

CALiforniALUM;842232612 said:

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Apples and oranges. Using a second year achievement of another team as the measuring stick for CAL coaching staff doesn't cut it. This was their first year.

---

I wasn't trying to compare Leach's second year to Dykes' first. I was agreeing with Nasal Mucus Goldenbear's example of Leach's first year. There was improvement in the first season that led to results, which in turn has led to more success this year. That is what you look for in a coaching staff.

As Oaktown Bear and Cal89 both pointed out above, it is really, really difficult to find anything in Dykes' first year to hang our hats on. Yes, there were injuries, youth, new systems, etc. No question. But we've just finished not simply a bad year of Cal football - we're finishing the worst year in our program's history. Injuries, youth, new systems, etc. do not excuse that away.

HaloBear;842232322 said:

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UCLA has had a top 10 class for something like 4 or 5 out of the last 6 years.

We might have one top 10 recruiting class in our school's history.

They were LOADED when Mora coached his first game.

From that standpoint, the situations aren't remotely similar.

---

Neuheisal (who I thought was a weasel until I met him and talked with him for some time, turns out to be a great guy), was at UCLA from the 2008 to 2011 season. Assuming for the moment that Neuhiesal influenced Mora first 2012 class, then you get the following ratings (ESP, Rivals, Scout):

2012: 19, 18, 12 (realizing Mora picked-up a lot of late talent like McCarthy)
2011 45, 45, 56
2010 10, 8, 8 (his only top 10 class)
2009 17, 14, 15
2008 14, 13, 13 (realizing Neuhiesal helped a mediocre class late)

Sorta like Tedford during this period, who had one really good class, and and some classes in the teens or twenties depending on the rating service (though nothing as bad as 2011). So I guess you just looked at the USC line, rather than the UCLA line when looking at rankings.

So let's talk about the loaded team. This year UCLA started 3 freshmen on the oline, and a center who started last year as a frosh. One WR who started as a frosh last year, and depending on how you view Jack, a frosh who starts at RB or LB. One frosh starts as a DE, and the DT McCarthy started some times as a true frosh last year. When Marsh is missing games for suspensions, etc. the substitute is a frosh, when Kendricks has been injured this year, the starter has been a frosh, Adams and Priest at cornerback our RS frosh and frosh, and the back-up safeties who have played a lot our both frosh. So yea, just flippen loaded with veteran players.

WASU's first year under Leach is indeed a more appropriate comparo...

They got 3 wins his first year. They closed-out the season on a high note beating ranked UW, their "cross-town" rival. Us? The biggest beatdown in BG history to contemplate for 9 months...

Also, for WASU in 2012:

#17 UCLA (lost by 8)
#19 Stanford (lost by 7)
#13 Oregon ST (lost by 13)

Pretty damn competitive against some tough competition. Three wins compared to our one and several competitive games against ranked teams is much more than we can say in our first year.

This is the Cougs mind you, not a team laden with top recruits...

JSML;842232580 said:

---

It's still spin. You asked for an on field positive. That is one.

---

I don't see that record as a positive at all. If anything it's an indictment of our running game and a simple manifestation of running more plays. Let's face facts: Goff stats are very similar to Maynard's last year in completion percentage, YPA and YPC. He just out it up more. The positive is that it was a senior Maynard and a freshman Goff, so there's good reason to hope that Goff improves over his career. But let's not kid ourselves that Goff had a great year.

Cal89;842232624 said:

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WASU's first year under Leach is indeed a more appropriate comparo...

They got 3 wins his first year. They closed-out the season on a high note beating ranked UW, their "cross-town" rival. Us? The biggest beatdown in BG history to contemplate for 9 months...

Also, for WASU in 2012:

#17 UCLA (lost by 8)
#19 Stanford (lost by 7)
#13 Oregon ST (lost by 13)

Pretty damn competitive against some tough competition. Three wins compared to our one and several competitive games against ranked teams is much more than we can say in our first year.

This is the Cougs mind you, not a team laden with top recruits...

---

Exactly. Your last point is even more important - Leach did it with less talent than what Dykes had to work with.

wifeisafurd;842232622 said:

---

Neuheisal (who I thought was a weasel until I met him and talked with him for some time, turns out to be a great guy), was at UCLA from the 2008 to 2011 season. Assuming for the moment that Neuhiesal influenced Mora first 2012 class, then you get the following ratings (ESP, Rivals, Scout):

2012: 19, 18, 12 (realizing Mora picked-up a lot of late talent like McCarthy)
2011 45, 45, 56
2010 10, 8, 8 (his only top 10 class)
2009 17, 14, 15
2008 14, 13, 13 (realizing Neuhiesal helped a mediocre class late)

Sorta like Tedford during this period, who had one really good class, and and some classes in the teens or twenties depending on the rating service (though nothing as bad as 2011). So I guess you just looked at the USC line, rather than the UCLA line when looking at rankings.

So let's talk about the loaded team. This year UCLA started 3 freshmen on the oline, and a center who started last year as a frosh. One WR who started as a frosh last year, and depending on how you view Jack, a frosh who starts at RB or LB. One frosh starts as a DE, and the DT McCarthy started some times as a true frosh last year. When Marsh is missing games for suspensions, etc. the substitute is a frosh, when Kendricks has been injured this year, the starter has been a frosh, Adams and Priest at cornerback our RS frosh and frosh, and the back-up safeties who have played a lot our both frosh. So yea, just flippen loaded with veteran players.

---

Ucla was 5-0 before injuries on OL forced them to play frosh. 3-3 after. Jack and Vanderdoes are top recruits. So was McCarthy. We wanted all three. Not arguing Dykes is a good coach but you aren't painting the entire UCLA picture accurately.

OaktownBear;842232330 said:

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It is absolutely amazing how stunningly clueless these arguments are. No one expected a Rose Bowl. Very few expected a winning season. Most of us would have been satisfied with three wins, being competitive in some of our losses and some decent progress. Those are very low expectations and they are so low because we take into account all that you say. Your points are good if you are trying to justify a 3 or 4 win season. They are horrible if you are trying to justify barely beating a FCS team and only being somewhat competitive in one

---

Right. Op might have still been able to at least make his argument though, until the Colorado debacle.

Cal89;842232383 said:

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Comparing Goff to Maynard, now that season is done:

Goff

Completion % = 60.3
QBR = 123.2
Y/A = 6.6
TD / INT = 18/10

Maynard

Completion % = 60.8
QBR = 130.3
Y/A = 7.5
TD / INT = 12/10

Compared to the conference, we are not a good passing team this year, unless good is in the bottom 25%. Our starter compared to last year's, who is generally considered a poor QB, has very comparable stats, actually a little worse...

---

OaktownBear;842232571 said:

---

It's not hard to spin. Goff barely broke the passing yardage record. He shattered the pass attempts record. He threw 531 times. Next closest in Cal history is 422. If Maynard had thrown 531 times and averaged what he did per pass last year, he would have passed for 450 yards more than Goff did this year.

---

Cal89;842232589 said:

---

Completion %, QBR, Y/A are deemed to be the best QB metrics to ascertain quality play. As I said before, we are near the bottom. And as much grief many like to give Maynard, and he was not a good QB, even his numbers were better Goff's. Caveat it that he was a freshman if one wants, but our passing game is not good. Put a true freshman in a proset with more responsibilities, and more challenging passes, the numbers are likely to get worse.

---

TheSouseFamily;842232630 said:

---

I don't see that record as a positive at all. If anything it's an indictment of our running game and a simple manifestation of running more plays. Let's face facts: Goff stats are very similar to Maynard's last year in completion percentage, YPA and YPC. He just out it up more. The positive is that it was a senior Maynard and a freshman Goff, so there's good reason to hope that Goff improves over his career. But let's not kid ourselves that Goff had a great year.

---

How can all of you (and others) continue to compare Goff to Maynard while ignoring the single biggest and most obvious difference between their circumstances: KA21, who is on his way to being a number one receiver in the NFL. I like our receivers now, but none of these guys is KA21 (not to mention that Maynard also had these same guys last year, and Marvin Jones the year before).

And while there is a point to be made about Goff's rate stats being mediocre, everyone on here should know that higher volume makes your rate stats go down. If Maynard had thrown 531 times, then he would not have averaged what he did per pass last year. I mean come on, do you think that maybe the defense was ready for the bubble screen against us?

Look, I saw Goff miss throws, inexplicably drop the ball, and step into sacks, just like you all did. But I also saw him make some throws that many NFL QB's can't make consistently. Have you ever seen a better fade pass than the one he threw to Harris in the end zone? He was far from perfect, but comparing him to Maynard? For real? I have no problem with anything anyone wants to say about Dykes. (He's a man. He's 40.) But please, get off Goff.

movielover;842232304 said:

---

[Editorial Note: I am not Sonny, his wife, or Kline's Troll Father.]

If you can name one who has had an improvement with a team in Diapers, let us know. I'm serious. Team, year, coach, improvement achieved.

The Bears had numerous Freshmen starting at key positions, not All Americans or even 2nd string players.

OLine - 3 Freshmen

QB - Freshman, and backup a Frosh

MLB - a 4th string Frosh?

These are just 3 examples. I know there are issues with defensive coaching, and the transition was hard for those recruited by long-term position coaches.

Go ahead. Whack away.

P.S. Yes, there needs to be a big step up this next year, not Rose Bowl, but marked, visible improvement.

---

Even with all the injuries and freshmen, would you agree that we still have more talents than Colorado? They also have a first year coach, isn't that correct? Forget the other 10 games. Why did we lose to CU by 17 points?

And name me a coach who put in his backup QB for just 7 plays and then pulled him immediately. And then threw him under the bus the following week after his first QB went down with an injury. Kline had done nothing but supporting his team and submitting to the coaches. Things like this make us lose confidence in Dykes' decision making ability.

CALiforniALUM;842232602 said:

---

Did either of those teams start the season under a completely different system and coaching staff and did they start a true freshmen QB?

---

Florida started Skyler Mornhinweg who is a RS Freshman and also the 3rd string QB. Georgia Southern started Kevin Ellison who is a RS Freshman and also the 2nd string QB. The coaching staffs on both of these teams to their credit are not using their QB's youth or the offensive systems as excuses. Maybe Sonny & Co. could take some lessons from them in that regard.

HKBear97;842232321 said:

---

How about name a coach at Cal who led the team to a 1-11 season, who oversaw a season without a win against an FBS opponent, who suffered the worse loss in a Big Game or who oversaw a team that gave up 551 points in a season?

---

Which came first: the Chicken or the Egg?

The Chicken. We know that Jeff Tedford had 2 very bad years, and was reportedly 2-18 versus teams .500 or above. (I haven't checked.) Recruiting dropped off, I don't know why. Burn out? We thought we had hit bottom and we brought in Sonny.

The Egg: we already started with an egg, or should I say a Turkey. On top of this, add 13 major injuries to frontline players.

So this was a disaster on top of a disaster. I can't hold this against Dykes. He has a team in Diapers, and a beated up team in Diapers at that.

CALiforniALUM;842232602 said:

---

Did either of those teams start the season under a completely different system and coaching staff and did they start a true freshmen QB?

---

A major selling point of TFS was that it supposedly requires less than a week to learn and is understandable to 3rd graders. Was that a lie? To now use its supposed complexity and newfound long-learning curve (it will after all take at least 1 full season plus 2 offseasons for college age students with several years of football-playing experience to grasp) as an excuse for historically poor play is 2-faced. The problem or delay is not in the system's supposed complexity but in what appears to be its predictability and lack of efficacy vs Pac-12 defenses.

Similarly, the choice to start a true frosh over several older QBs, including 3 upperclassmen, was made by TF & SD. So, to use his class status as an excuse for the entire team's historically poor play is also 2-faced. Lastly, why put so much of the blame on JG's shoulders? There are many other much more significant factors, including line & run coaching, playcalling, blocking, Buh's general incompetence, etc. etc.

These excuses end up exposing other problems with the staff (and their promises), point the finger right back at them, or show themselves to be useless distractions.

OaktownBear;842232330 said:

---

It is absolutely amazing how stunningly clueless these arguments are. No one expected a Rose Bowl. Very few expected a winning season. Most of us would have been satisfied with three wins, being competitive in some of our losses and some decent progress. Those are very low expectations and they are so low because we take into account all that you say. Your points are good if you are trying to justify a 3 or 4 win season. They are horrible if you are trying to justify barely beating a FCS team and only being somewhat competitive in one other game.

How many injuries did we have when we lost to Northwestern by 14 at home? Northwestern is 0-7 in conference. How many injuries when we barely beat PSU?

I've got worst season in history to bolster my argument. You need a better counter. Like one positive on the field. Not excuses. One positive. Good luck finding it.

And a lot of frosh played because Dykes chose to play them, partially because experienced players quit on him. In a few cases literally quit the team.

---

Basically the red flags were up when were getting gashed by Portland State. I wasn't on the fire Buh bandwagon at that time as I wanted to give the man some time to sort things out (I certainly am now). The matador defense conga line never stopped. I was watching the Furd game. It wasn't about just speed and talent on D. It was about assignments (or rather blown assignments like every other play), not staying in your lanes, and being reckless (i.e. not being disciplined). Week 2 I can understand. Week 12, it's abominable.

CALiforniALUM;842232612 said:

---

Apples and oranges. Using a second year achievement of another team as the measuring stick for CAL coaching staff doesn't cut it. This was their first year.

---

:bravo

And per whacking the frosh QB, remember, the "Big Uglies" he is playing behind, who are protecting him, include 3 FRESHMEN. And I don't hear anyone sining the praises of the receiving core.

I also bet that there are a number of players who don't like the focus on academics, the study halls, etc. Things have changed, and Sonny has inserted these changes due to the mess he inherited, so that is another positive for these student-athletes.

Yes, Sonny has his hands full. I'd expect he bring in maybe a half dozen JC players, maybe a dozen, if he can get quality guys, to fill in sports where there is urgent need. Evaluate who he has coming back from injuries, and who showed signs of improvement. Show malcontents the door, or those that quit, and bring in some hungry guys. Try to find a way to limit injuries in the Spring. Look long and hard at your DC and any position coaches who didn't cut the mustard. Expand the playbook this spring, and evalate whether you really need 6 QBs on the roster. (How many are walk ons?) I'd hope he'd win 3 or 4 games next year, which I think is a realistic goal, and reduce the blowouts.

oski003;842232643 said:

---

Ucla was 5-0 before injuries on OL forced them to play frosh. 3-3 after. Jack and Vanderdoes are top recruits. So was McCarthy. We wanted all three. Not arguing Dykes is a good coach but you aren't painting the entire UCLA picture accurately.

---

Thank you. The Bears had a bad and young team to start with, which progressed into a bad, young, and injury-marred year.

Sonny-Goff-Kline: I agree that Kline should not have been pulled after 7 plays, but I don't also have all the details. I also don't agree with Sonny's slight swipe at Kline after the BG, but don't say that Kline "did nothing" - he was very politely spouting off in the press about wanting "an opportunity", a quite gentlemanly whine. While I might agree with him, he is a freshman, he is the no. 2 QB at a Pac-12 school with 6-7 QBs, he has had playing time, and there have been few QBs of his age in his spot over the decades. Again, I'm not saying Sonny has made every perfect move, but when I read Kline's quotes I thought "Opps".

Gizzly Bear;842232657 said:

---

How can all of you (and others) continue to compare Goff to Maynard while ignoring the single biggest and most obvious difference between their circumstances: KA21, who is on his way to being a number one receiver in the NFL. I like our receivers now, but none of these guys is KA21 (not to mention that Maynard also had these same guys last year, and Marvin Jones the year before).

And while there is a point to be made about Goff's rate stats being mediocre, everyone on here should know that higher volume makes your rate stats go down. If Maynard had thrown 531 times, then he would not have averaged what he did per pass last year. I mean come on, do you think that maybe the defense was ready for the bubble screen against us?

Look, I saw Goff miss throws, inexplicably drop the ball, and step into sacks, just like you all did. But I also saw him make some throws that many NFL QB's can't make consistently. Have you ever seen a better fade pass than the one he threw to Harris in the end zone? He was far from perfect, but comparing him to Maynard? For real? I have no problem with anything anyone wants to say about Dykes. (He's a man. He's 40.) But please, get off Goff.

---

Apologies if a nerve was struck. Not the intent, at least from me, and I'd guess others too.

KA21 is looking to be a star in the NFL alright. His contributions last year were notable and certainly aided Maynard. KA21 caught 61 passes for 737 yards last year. That's about 12.1 yards per reception.

This year, Harper had very comparable numbers: 70 receptions for 852 yards for around 12.2 yards per catch. They both caught a little over 6 balls a game, on average.

One might say that KA21 saved Maynard's butt with a few great catches last year. That's certainly true. I recall several even more miraculous catches this year by Lawler and Harris, aiding Goff's numbers too.

Keenan is not the x factor here. Of note, Treggs too has contributions up there with KA21: 77 catches for 751 yards. Each Harper and Treggs had more catches and yards than KA21 last year. One could argue that having two go to receivers is more desirable than just one... Along those lines, spreading it out, each game we average over 10 guys with receptions. As a QB, that must be a good feeling to have so many receivers that the D thinks might get the next pass... That wasn't the case last year.

Also, with respect to 2012, Harper and Treggs were not not big contributors, combined 62 receptions. That's a little over 2 catches for each a game, on average. KA21 was the man, and opposing D's knew it.

The intent here is not to pile on Goff or any player for that matter. In this discussion, in trying to find positives in this season, something we should not have to look hard for, it was said that we have a good passing game. With the QB being a major component of the passing game, our starter's performance was then germane...

Reasons (stats) were provided showing that our passing game compared to conference foes is not good, and near the bottom. In relation to last year, starting QB's compared, our current starting QB performed a little worse than a guy who is generally despised around here.

With respect to "everyone on here should know that higher volume makes your rate stats go down", I like to know more about that. Seriously, I had not heard that before. If there is a article or study, please direct me. It does not seem commonsensical to me...

Within a game, I've seen it go both ways. Goff started on fire against Stanford. Wow, our best opening drive of the season, I feel. Very impressive. He connected on his first 5 passes, culminating with a TD. He finished with around 52% as I recall... The week before in CO, he started 2 for 5 (40%), and finished with 51%. Within games, I'd imagine that completion rates go either way...

As for the season, I'd be inclined to think that the more passes made leads to improved effectiveness in the passing game, not the opposite. It all equates to increased reps, improving, getting more in sync with receivers, learning from past mistakes, etc...

I find the TFS suspect. I think many of us have concerns about such play calling in the Pac-12. It's mind-numbing at times to watch...

Yes, Goff throws a beautiful fade, one of the best I've ever seen. His deep balls unfortunately have a fade look to them though. The comparison to Maynard is a solid one, as validated by looking at their performance metrics.

While Maynard had some poor games, we remember those, he had some very good ones too. At tOSU, over 70%. UCLA, 83%, 4 TD's, 1 INT. In 2011, his last 3 games were quite good: OSU 68%; Stanford 69%, 173 QBR, 2 TD's, 0 INT's (bettered Luck); ASU 73%, 162 QBR.

Whether it's the inadequacies of the TFS, QB effectiveness, poor coaching, all of these and other factors, our passing game is not good.

BearNIt;842232686 said:

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Florida started Skyler Mornhinweg who is a RS Freshman and also the 3rd string QB. Georgia Southern started Kevin Ellison who is a RS Freshman and also the 2nd string QB. The coaching staffs on both of these teams to their credit are not using their QB's youth or the offensive systems as excuses. Maybe Sonny & Co. could take some lessons from them in that regard.

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Thanks. So the answer is no.

TheSouseFamily;842232630 said:

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I don't see that record as a positive at all. If anything it's an indictment of our running game and a simple manifestation of running more plays. Let's face facts: Goff stats are very similar to Maynard's last year in completion percentage, YPA and YPC. He just out it up more. The positive is that it was a senior Maynard and a freshman Goff, so there's good reason to hope that Goff improves over his career. But let's not kid ourselves that Goff had a great year.

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The record is blemished by Cal's season and Goff did not have a great season, but it's still a hell of a job by Goff. Let's give our players their due when deserved.

OaktownBear;842232493 said:

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j - I like you. You are a supremely nice guy. But this response has me incredulous. As the exact same points had me incredulous 12 years ago.

1. I didn't say nobody got better. I said give me a positive, not an excuse. You still haven't. The point is, you can look at this as giving reasons to fire him, or you can think of this as giving reasons to keep him. Dykes' defenders give lots of reasons why he can't be blamed for negative. But no one gives any argument that he has done something good. (as for the punter, a guy who has always been good just got benched by your coach a couple weeks ago for his lousy performance, so I think i can say "even the punter")

2. C'mon man. You are better than to think that I have to attend every football practice to judge a team that I have watched play 12 games. Your response to my asking people to demonstrate anything positive (an easy proposition if anything positive has happened) is to tell me I have to prove nothing positive has happened. I have to somehow prove I watched every second of practice and nothing positive happened. The classic proving a negative which is impossible. The point of practice is to be prepared for games. I saw all the games. We just had the worst season of our bad history. What happened in practice in that context is virtually irrelevant.

3. Am I basing my assessment on 1-11? You are damned right I am. Now I could go deeper and give you a lot of stats. I can describe what I saw at games. But I'm going to say what I said under Holmoe. I don't need to demonstrate that every phase of every unit is shyte. 1-11 is enough. If a coach goes 11-1, and you want to say he is an idiot, you need to bring some really good arguments that overcome 11-1. On the flip side, 1-11 is objective abject failure. I don't need to demonstrate that it is awful or why it is awful. You need to demonstrate that it isn't.

In law there is the concept of res ipsa loquitur. Meaning the thing speaks for itself. Dykes is coach and he went 1-11. That is failure. It speaks for itself. If you want to demonstrate that he shouldn't be held responsible for it, you need to make a good argument. This concept that I'm ONLY basing it on 1-11 is hilarious. It is like saying "you are only basing that murder charge on the fact that he was standing over the body with a smoking gun in his hand with blood spatters all over him screaming 'eat lead loser!' What else you got?"

I can make plenty of arguments that Dykes sucks beyond going 1-11, but I can rest my case on 1-11 if I want to. No one has come up with anything to rebut that.

And seriously. You were with Holmoe to the end, weren't you?

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OTB.....I love you, too, bro.....you are one of the more reasonable posters on the board and usually will try to read whatever you have to say on any given topic. And I too was incredulous......that you had jumped off the Dykes bandwagon so early. It might have been the Northwestern game but not really sure.

You didn't say nobody got better but you certainly inferred it:

"One positive thing. Not an excuse for negatives. Give me one positive thing. Even our punter got worse."

That last sentence gives me impression that nobody got better in your opinion i.e. "even the punter got worse" suggests that nobody got better. If this is not what you meant, my bad.

Anyway, you may certainly be right in your assessment of Dykes and Co. The reality of the matter is that Dykes is going to be here for at least another year, maybe two. 1-11 certainly looks like an overwhelming amount of evidence for the anti-Dykes crowd and there may not be any positives from this season but I'll try.

I asked you whether you've been to practices because what you see on game day doesn't necessarily mean the players aren't incrementally improving as players in practice. The post by Moragabear talking about how the OL respected the OL coach was one of the few I've read that I would consider insider information. Reading about all the team dissension on the board, perhaps this could be considered a positive.

You don't feel the numbers in the passing game reflect an improvement from last year. The positive I get and you may not agree is that Goff threw the ball over 500 times. That's the equivalent of 2 seasons. A lot of experience from which to draw from and will undoubtedly help Goff in the future. Our number two, Kline got 82 throws which is the equivalent of nearly 4 games, two of those games in quality, non mop up situations. Maybe Dykes is waiting for Rubenzer who probably fits the TFS best but looking ahead to next year, we have at least two experienced QBs. The numbers may not reflect it but the repetitions do and they will have another spring and summer to get bigger, stronger and more comfortable with the system.

When you throw the ball over 600 times, many receivers are targeted. Again the experience factor of getting game time for a lot of receivers bodes well for next year. We had 11 players who had at least 10 receptions. The only player leaving excluding any transfers is Bouza. Our receiving corps will be very good next year with experienced QBs throwing them the ball.

Our OL saw improvement during the course of the year. And Moraga's post about the OL respecting Yenser, I believe, is a positive. We ran for 190 yards against SC.....I doubt we've done that in the last 10 years. The game prior, we ran for 130 yards at a 5 yd per clip average. The game following SC, we ran for over 200 yards with Bigelow having his best game of the year.
Stanford, we fell back to earth but I think their defense was probably the tops in the conference. Still, hope for a young OL looking ahead to next year.

As far as the defense, the only thing I can say is a lot of players, young players, got game experience. A lot. We should be deeper next year when the injured players come back. Refer to MbBear's comments on the DBs today.

Coaching is a process that takes longer than 12 months. Sure 1-11 looks like Holmoe....the positive to take from Dykes is that he did this in his first year, not his last year, like Holmoe. Maybe Sonny realized the futility of this year and sacrificed the year for the longer term prospects of the team. The Bears will have a lot of game experience for its roster next year with a key position, QB, well stocked. Dykes is going to get 2 more years at least.....let's allow the guy some slack for the next couple of years to see whether he can turn it around. If he doesn't then he's toast. The state of Cal football lies with Dykes whether we like it or not. I'm taking the look and see approach and will support the guy until I truly believe it's him and his staff that's the problem. 12 months is not enough to make that determination, given the circumstances presented to him this year.

The original question is impossible to answer at best and disingenuous at worst.

No two football teams are exactly equal in injuries. And if they were, you wouldn't be able to compare them. Comparison requires at least some difference.

And when one tries to compare Sonny's performance this year against other teams that had to play a lot of young players after a new staff inherited a disastrous situation (2012 WSU, 2009 Washington, etc.), then the Dykes pumpers attempt to invalidate the comparisons since the situations weren't [U]exactly[/U] equal. (Even though Sonny has a lot of advantages at Cal that Sark and Leach didn't have at their institutions).

Besides, there is no feasible way to look up how many young players had to play for UW in 2009, much less WSU in 2012. Regardless, it is clear that Sonny and McIntyre inherited similarly terrible situations this year and both had to play Freshmen QBs. But one coach won 4 games, including a blowout victory over the other coach. But again, the Sonny apologists will counter that the comparison isn't valid because the situations aren't [U]exactly[/U] equal. (Again, ignoring all the ways in which Sonny inherited a much better situation).

The mark of a good coach is winning all of the games in which his team has more talent than their opponents, and a good number of the games in which they were fairly similarly matched. And keeping it close and occasionally beating teams in which they are really overmatched. Despite our injuries we still had more or comparable talent than several of our opponents.

For example:

Cal had more talent than at least 3 teams they played this year -- PSU, WSU, Colorado. And probably also Northwestern. We went 1-3 against these teams with 3 blowout losses.

Cal didn't beat any of the teams that were in the same general ballpark as us talent-wise. And we were blown out by all but one of them.

And we were blown out and embarrassed by all three teams that had significantly more talent than us (tOSU, Oregon, stanfurd).

Gizzly Bear;842232657 said:

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How can all of you (and others) continue to compare Goff to Maynard while ignoring the single biggest and most obvious difference between their circumstances: KA21, who is on his way to being a number one receiver in the NFL. I like our receivers now, but none of these guys is KA21 (not to mention that Maynard also had these same guys last year, and Marvin Jones the year before).

And while there is a point to be made about Goff's rate stats being mediocre, everyone on here should know that higher volume makes your rate stats go down. If Maynard had thrown 531 times, then he would not have averaged what he did per pass last year. I mean come on, do you think that maybe the defense was ready for the bubble screen against us?

Look, I saw Goff miss throws, inexplicably drop the ball, and step into sacks, just like you all did. But I also saw him make some throws that many NFL QB's can't make consistently. Have you ever seen a better fade pass than the one he threw to Harris in the end zone? He was far from perfect, but comparing him to Maynard? For real? I have no problem with anything anyone wants to say about Dykes. (He's a man. He's 40.) But please, get off Goff.

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I'm not trying to rate Goff. I 'm talking about our passing game as a whole and arguing against the yardage record being a positive in context. I was impresses with Goff in game 1. He didn't improve during the season which I put on the coaches. I expect him to be signicantly better than Maynard during his career if he gets any kind of coaching.

Point is, our passing offense in total was not improved over last year or even over almost all the primary QBs of the last 12 years. Pointing to yardage passing that you get by running more passing plays is ridiculous. Bottom line is we had the worst yards per play in at least 12 years.

We were getting torched with big plays before Sebastian and McClure went down.

Uh Oh, Sac State beat PSU this year!

oski003;842232643 said:

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Ucla was 5-0 before injuries on OL forced them to play frosh. 3-3 after. Jack and Vanderdoes are top recruits. So was McCarthy. We wanted all three. Not arguing Dykes is a good coach but you aren't painting the entire UCLA picture accurately.

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That would be significant if their strength of schedule in the first half of the season equaled the sos of the second half, which is not the case. None of those first 5 opponents are ranked in the top 25 (the closest is Nebraska at #32), while the 3 teams to which they lost are all highly ranked (#8, #12, #13).