I would be installing a different offensive system early tomorrow morning.

it is an incomplete system .

waltwa;842249486 said:

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I would be installing a different offensive system early tomorrow morning.

it is an incomplete system .

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Been saying this all season, it is a horrible system. Zero clock control and an incomplete pass basically insures that you will have to convert a 3rd and long.

I was happy last year we were getting an "air raid" system that was 50% run/pass...but I was wrong

Basing this off of Cal and WSU* isn't reasonable. An Air Raid team has the #14 scoring offense in the country this season and is 10-2. In one game they scored 49 points against the #17 scoring defense in the country. Their two losses were both by 9, one to another Air Raid team and the other against the #13 defense in the country (against which they scored an alright 24 points). This team started running the Air Raid in 2010, and has won 11, 12, 8, and 10 games since then. In 2011 this team beat teams that were ranked #4, #8, #14 (x2), and #22 at the time they played. The win over #4 was in a BCS bowl. In 2012, a down year, they beat two teams that were ranked when they played. They're just the forgotten Air Raid team because, after their Air Raid guru left for a HC job, they've hired a series of no-name OC's to keep their offense intact. Most importantly, though, their plays from this season will look very, very familiar to anyone who payed attention to our offense this year. This team is, of course, Oklahoma State.

The Air Raid is like any other system. There are a few good coaches and a lot of bad coaches within it. There are lots of shitty pro-style and spread-to-run offenses too, but no one sees that as an indictment of the respective systems.

*Let's remember, though, that WSU just went to their first bowl game since 2003, so I wouldn't write off the Air Raid up there just yet.

berk18;842249538 said:

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Basing this off of Cal and WSU* isn't reasonable. An Air Raid team has the #14 scoring offense in the country this season and is 10-2. In one game they scored 49 points against the #17 scoring defense in the country. Their two losses were both by 9, one to another Air Raid team and the other against the #13 defense in the country (against which they scored an alright 24 points). This team started running the Air Raid in 2010, and has won 11, 12, 8, and 10 games since then. In 2011 this team beat teams that were ranked #4, #8, #14 (x2), and #22 at the time they played. The win over #4 was in a BCS bowl. In 2012, a down year, they beat two teams that were ranked when they played. They're just the forgotten Air Raid team because, after their Air Raid guru left for a HC job, they've hired a series of no-name OC's to keep their offense intact. Most importantly, though, their plays from this season will look very, very familiar to anyone who payed attention to our offense this year. This team is, of course, Oklahoma State.

The Air Raid is like any other system. There are a few good coaches and a lot of bad coaches within it. There are lots of shitty pro-style and spread-to-run offenses too, but no one sees that as an indictment of the respective systems.

*Let's remember, though, that WSU just went to their first bowl game since 2003, so I wouldn't write off the Air Raid up there just yet.

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Oklahoma State is very different than Cal and WSU because they have a very good defense. OSU gave up an average of 18.5 points per game this season; if we gave up only 18.5 points in each game this season, our record would have been 7-5 instead of 1-11. Our defense was horrible this season, as was WSU's.

Golden One;842249600 said:

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Oklahoma State is very different than Cal and WSU because they have a very good defense. OSU gave up an average of 18.5 games this season; if we gave up only 18.5 points in each game this season, our record would have been 7-5 instead of 1-11. Our defense was horrible this season, as was WSU's.

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An excellent point. This puts to rest the myth that an Air Raid offense is necessarily accompanied by a terrible defense. It's not the system, it's the preparation in terms of individual technique, game-planning, and teaching/repping that game-plan for your players. My biggest point over the last year has been that people worry too much about the system, whether it's the 2-point stance, the 3-4 vs. the 4-3, or the Air Raid vs. pro-style. Good coaches are good coaches and bad coaches are bad coaches. Oklahoma State is, once again, the perfect example. Their last two OC's were NOT Air Raid guys. Gundy liked the Air Raid but didn't hire guys from that system after Holgorsen. He looked for guys who made good adjustments with whatever offense they were running, and then taught them the Air Raid. They succeeded, because good coaches are good coaches no matter what they're running.

ok here is what I would do. I would hire really good asst. coaches and invite them to my house tomorrow morning and get to work installing a different system.

waltwa;842249613 said:

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ok here is what I would do. I would hire really good asst. coaches and invite them to my house tomorrow morning and get to work installing a different system.

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Why do you think the system is incomplete?

here's what the "experts" should do: get hired as a HS HC coach then do whatever to show how great your "expertise" is.

it focuses too heavily on the passing game. it certainly in many cases can reduce the gap between a really good team and an average team. however there are simply too many times when a semblance of a running game is needed to create some balance to an offense and that is when the air raid comes off as an incomplete system.
never was this imbalance more clear than in the wsu disaster.

oh and by the way I did get hired as a hs coach and along the way had the #1rated team in the state of California.

waltwa;842249790 said:

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it focuses too heavily on the passing game. it certainly in many cases can reduce the gap between a really good team and an average team. however there are simply too many times when a semblance of a running game is needed to create some balance to an offense and that is when the air raid comes off as an incomplete system.
never was this imbalance more clear than in the wsu disaster.

oh and by the way I did get hired as a hs coach and along the way had the #1rated team in the state of California.

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Fair points. Lots of spread teams do run the ball very well, though. Do you think our problem is something schematic that other spread teams don't have to deal with, the position coaching at RB and OL, or the game-planning/adjustments by the OC?

Golden One;842249600 said:

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Oklahoma State is very different than Cal and WSU because they have a very good defense. OSU gave up an average of 18.5 points per game this season; if we gave up only 18.5 points in each game this season, our record would have been 7-5 instead of 1-11. Our defense was horrible this season, as was WSU's.

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The Golden One has it! Cal's defense this year riddled with injuries and staffed by recent HS graduates could not keep the Bears' HS grad offense in the game.
Bigelow running single wing would not have done any better. It's not on coaching.

The Denver Broncos have scored 51 TD's through the air. Their running game is not exactly fearsome.

I think everyone has made understandable points.

We don't know yet if the Bear Raid offense is going to succeed at CAL. What we lacked this year to make it successful was a good OL. Without a good OL, we had no running game that was a threat to a defense.

The only times we could effectively run the ball is when the defense went to three down linemen and played for the pass.

What we need is an improved OL that poses a threat to the defense that we can run the ball. We need the defense to play us honestly for both the run and pass threat, which is true for any offense to be effective.

Of course, the defense has to improve; that's a no brainer.

With all that said, I am no fan of this offense.

BTW, did we throw one screen pass this year; does anyone remember.

isnt the air raid simply the "west coast offense" of Bill Walsh? You pass instead of run to make a first down.

GBMARIN;842250056 said:

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The Golden One has it! Cal's defense this year riddled with injuries and staffed by recent HS graduates could not keep the Bears' HS grad offense in the game.
Bigelow running single wing would not have done any better. It's not on coaching.

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not on coaching? did you see that way these guys were taught to tackle?

GBMARIN;842250056 said:

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The Golden One has it! Cal's defense this year riddled with injuries and staffed by recent HS graduates could not keep the Bears' HS grad offense in the game.
Bigelow running single wing would not have done any better. It's not on coaching.

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If the offensive or defensive system are not working for a team then who else could be at fault but the coaches. The coaches know the systems and the players don't. The players are taught what the coaches know. The coaches know what personnel they have and should evaluate and make modifications so their freakin offensive or defensive systems work. Not on the coaches? :rollinglaugh::rollinglaugh::rollinglaugh:

6bear6;842250211 said:

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isnt the air raid simply the "west coast offense" of Bill Walsh? You pass instead of run to make a first down.

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yeah, but we don't have tight ends or fullbacks. or do we?

BBBGOBEARS;842250245 said:

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not on coaching? did you see that way these guys were taught to tackle?

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This is a good point, but I think you have to look at the no-tackle practice policy, which started with depth. We had a lack of physicality at every single position this year with a few players excepted, and it shows up in a lot of places that you wouldn't even expect. You have to instill physicality before the season starts.

okaydo;842250248 said:

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yeah, but we don't have tight ends or fullbacks. or do we?

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That's personnel, not scheme. If you use a FB and a TE you have seven blockers to block 8 defenders. If you don't, you have five blockers to block six defenders, because the defense removes guys from the box as the offense does. The Air Raid was originally run out of a split back, 1 TE formation, and still is at a lot of high schools. The plays are the same, it's just a matter of where people start pre-snap. There are obviously things you can do with run blocking that you can't do from a 1-back, zero TE set, but you gain things as well. The zone read is a perfect example. If you run an outside zone and have a full-back in the game, you use the FB to kick out the backside DE. If you get rid of the FB, you can accomplish the same thing by reading that DE instead of blocking him. In many ways this is better. If you block the DE but he beats his block, you're in bad shape. If you read the DE, he can't be right. There are a lot of ways to get a run blocked.

This thread was never intended as a criticism of the staff but rather the offensive system.

I think in the long run Cal is a program that can recruit well enough to play with the best ( and did a few years ago) and the Air raid is more of a system that is a WSU or team that simply can't recruit with the best teams and has to take an approach that can upset a good team but can never be consistent enough to beat the top teams in the Pac12

waltwa;842249486 said:

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I would be installing a different offensive system early tomorrow morning.

it is an incomplete system .

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I would get a top-flight, 4/5-star RB to complete it. A rock-solid O-line is mandatory as well.

Right now the ballyhooed TFS has all the flaws of the Run-and-Shoot offense from yesteryear and History is merely repeating itself for the clown-coaches who have ignored it.

BBBGOBEARS;842250245 said:

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not on coaching? did you see that way these guys were taught to tackle?

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Taught to tackle? Ah, how many years has each player been playing football. In essence, what you are implying is that Cal recruited players that had no tackling skills and furthermore current coaches failed to teach them thus.

Give me a brake.

waltwa;842250496 said:

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...

I think in the long run Cal is a program that can recruit well enough to play with the best ( and did a few years ago) and the Air raid is more of a system that is a WSU or team that simply can't recruit with the best teams and has to take an approach that can upset a good team but can never be consistent enough to beat the top teams in the Pac12

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Excellent point.

the TFS is supposed to better equalize talent deficits, but it is still reliant on personnel. The goal is to complete high-percentage short passes, but ultimately requires the ability to run the football -- hence the red zone issues for Cal; they couldn't run the football.

TF acknowledges that if you get a couple completions, you will fatigue the defense and make them vulnerable later on that drive and the rest of the game for not only short stuff but deep plays. When you can't do this, you're in trouble. But the point, form their perspective, is that it is so high percentage (e.g. short passes, quick snaps), it's hard to fail. TF does not shy away from being unbalanced -- meaning if he can't do one thing (run) he believes you SHOULD abandon it more or less.

AT the end of the day, I'd prefer a pro-style offense that uses elements of the spread/option, ala Harbaugh.