Bobodeluxe;842309454 said:

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I don't think so. At most high schools, large players with ball control skills do not play interior line positions. Consistency is not as important in the much slower high school game.

Didn't we recently have one of the highest rated high school centers in the nation? Almost nothing.

A crap shoot.

:cheer

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I'm not saying that you can pull just anyone off the street and get him do it.

What I am saying is that practically all other college football program are able to find someone who can do this very effectively. It is one of the most fundamental aspects of the game, but we have failed to get this right for a long time now.

Bobodeluxe;842309454 said:

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I don't think so. At most high schools, large players with ball control skills do not play interior line positions. Consistency is not as important in the much slower high school game.

Didn't we recently have one of the highest rated high school centers in the nation? Almost nothing.

A crap shoot.

:cheer

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Yeah, highly rated Brezinski :headbang
Did damn well in the classroom, good for him, but failed on the field.

Then there was Mack, and several before him.

Indeed, a crap shoot, especially with the role the center plays in TF's offense. It's more than just snapping and blocking.

SonOfCalVa;842309452 said:

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see the post directly above yours ... it'll get fixed.

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My post is directly above The Duke's and its thrust wasn't that this will assuredly get fixed. If the coaches are just telling our Cs to 'get it done' or 'play fast' or 'practice more' they are missing the salient point. Ask Chuck Knobloch or Steve Sax how easy the throw from second base to first base is. Ask any pro golfer who has the putting yips how easy a two foot putt is. I hope our coaches recognize that the bad snaps are not just a technique problem. There just isn't that much technique involved.

82gradDLSdad;842309444 said:

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Really? We've been have snapping issues for 3 years now. Obviously snapping is mainly about confidence and letting the body just do what it is trained to do more so than technique. Many can snap a football but can you do it when you are in front of 50,000 people? Can you do it after making OL calls? Can you do it when you are about to get hit in the face by a 300 lber? Can you do it after you've made a few bad snaps? Having been a bit of a choker (ie. over-thinker) in my past athletic life I can tell you that the ability to just 'make the motion' without over-thinking takes a lot of work and it takes someone or something giving you the keys to turning off your brain and just letting your muscles do what they are trained to do. Some kids have this ability right from the start. I suspect many at Cal tend to be over-thinkers and thus they need someone to train them to just 'go play'. So far, at center, it looks like guys still think too much when snaps start going awry. It's not as easy to fix as you think.

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Same thing you listed applies to everything else an OL needs to do. They do everything else in front of 50,000 people too.

Plus I didnt say it was easy. I said it was easier. Its all relative man

Davidson;842309466 said:

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Same thing you listed applies to everything else an OL needs to do. They do everything else in front of 50,000 people too.

Plus I didnt say it was easy. I said it was easier. Its all relative man

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Initiating the offense (ie. snapping the shotgun snap) is not the same as all the other tasks an OL needs to do. Everything else is reacting. It's like saying why Steve Sax could hit a 90 mph fastball so he could make the throw from second base to first base. Until you've choked on one of these routine athletic movements you don't know what it's like. The simple motions where you have time to think can sometimes be the hardest to do when the pressure starts to build.

i think you're overstating it. they'll fix it by fall.

82gradDLSdad;842309472 said:

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Initiating the offense (ie. snapping the shotgun snap) is not the same as all the other tasks an OL needs to do. Everything else is reacting. It's like saying why Steve Sax could hit a 90 mph fastball so he could make the throw from second base to first base. Until you've choked on one of these routine athletic movements you don't know what it's like. The simple motions where you have time to think can sometimes be the hardest to do when the pressure starts to build.

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We could use a review/refresher course on the role of the center in our offense. Post-Mack, the position has been adequate at best but the responsibilities reportedly have increased.
Does the pre-snap role of the center somehow affect concentration and distract from the snap and blocking?

Berk, front and center, please, if you can.

We have several possibilities for center, assuming Adcock and "little" Cochran recover fully and are ready. Got to find one (and a backup) who can do the job. It's not encouraging to see Franklin teaching the QB how to cover the ball (for a big loss) after a bad snap.

Davidson;842309473 said:

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i think you're overstating it. they'll fix it by fall.

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We have been saying that for several years now.

The Duke!;842309509 said:

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We have been saying that for several years now.

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Last year wasn't awful.

turkey02;842309510 said:

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Last year wasn't awful.

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what? :facepalm it looked horrendous enough.

The Duke!;842309509 said:

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We have been saying that for several years now.

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Adcock was fine. he was injured.

Matt cochran would have been fine, but he was injured.

Our third string center was too busy to ensure that he would graduate with 2 degrees to give a sh1t

and our 4th string converted guard had some issues, but will be fine in the fall, assuming he stays there.

Davidson;842309523 said:

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Adcock was fine. he was injured.

Matt cochran would have been fine, but he was injured.

Our third string center was too busy to ensure that he would graduate with 2 degrees to give a sh1t

and our 4th string converted guard had some issues, but will be fine in the fall, assuming he stays there.

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:acclaim:

:gobears:

Davidson;842309523 said:

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Adcock was fine. he was injured.

Matt cochran would have been fine, but he was injured.

Our third string center was too busy to ensure that he would graduate with 2 degrees to give a sh1t

and our 4th string converted guard had some issues, but will be fine in the fall, assuming he stays there.

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we gotta recruit academically-oriented athletes--but not TOO academically oriented.

:facepalm

beeasyed;842309545 said:

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we gotta recruit academically-oriented athletes--but not TOO academically oriented.

:facepalm

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How do we know when they mean it when they say they want to use football as a means to a college education?

NYCGOBEARS;842309659 said:

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How do we know when they mean it when they say they want to use football as a means to a college education?

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:p All those who express an interest in a hard science major are suspect.
:p Those who express an intense interest in "occupational" majors (e.g. business, legal studies, engineering) might have a goal other than the NFL on their mind.
:p We need to hire staff to ensure players aren't sneaking into the libraries or are doing research on their devices instead of twittttttering.
:p Contemplating Xrays instead of xBox strategy has to be monitored and controlled.

Recruiting is tough for non-football factories.
Recruiting was so much easier and predictable when the coffee cup guy was here.
Of course, the xBox guru who served coffee, and his boss, never got us to the Rose Bowl.

Maybe we can get back to the Holiday bowl if some of these students perform as athletes.
The athletes who faked academics didn't do it.

:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

SonOfCalVa;842309665 said:

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:p All those who express an interest in a hard science major are suspect.
:p Those who express an intense interest in "occupational" majors (e.g. business, legal studies, engineering) might have a goal other than the NFL on their mind.
:p We need to hire staff to ensure players aren't sneaking into the libraries or are doing research on their devices instead of twittttttering.
:p Contemplating Xrays instead of xBox strategy has to be monitored and controlled.

Recruiting is tough for non-football factories.
Recruiting was so much easier and predictable when the coffee cup guy was here.
Of course, the xBox guru who served coffee, and his boss, never got us to the Rose Bowl.

Maybe we can get back to the Holiday bowl if some of these students perform as athletes.
The athletes who faked academics didn't do it.

:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

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Perhaps those on BI with the skill can read their body language?

Bobodeluxe;842306558 said:

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Footwork and agility, or lack thereof, are exposed in many drills that everyone runs at one time or another. The difference in quickness and agility between offensive linemen and defensive linemen is marked.

I am not saying that the effort is not there. I AM saying that the natural talent may not be there. How hard will the youngish linemen work in the next six months? I have no idea what is between each respective set of ears. Leadership, vocal or not, is at a premium on the field.

Maybe 4roses has some insights.

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OL ... ( i am still learning about the TFS/spread O LINE operation) as i also assume this goes for the OL at Cal ... now they(mostly) should be well versed in what it will take to give jared the time/ open running lanes

if you go back to last season... there were a lot of wiffs aka missed blocks this system plus new guys / lacking on chemistry plus early injuries ... meant trouble

all those factors mean hard knocks and thats we saw oh boy

as to snaps ... summer time will be key ( ncaa just changed summer time practice rules ... teams can now have mandatory summer workouts ??)

now they all have better idea of whats expected of them .. they are responding to yensers coaching ( learning to believe in him lil more day by day aka believing in themselves )

the chemistry foundation started once #66 started getting PT... chris is a brite physical mauler ... exactly the type of road grader we need

they are working together ... building confidence that the other 4 guys will be doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing so all i excute is MY JOB ...
hopefully this way of thinking gets stronger thru the summer .. they are very aware game is won with them ... they have Nice dude at QB .. WRs up the ying yang and serviceable RBs .... the S/c results wil truly be there in aug ..

concerns : lingering injuries matt and chris need to be in rotation but they are still not 100% thus not 100% able to work out

snaps must be on point !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

will they sacrifice summer/ chilling time to run reps ,work on technique ie footwork and etc plus the lifting

side note Ariz st qb kelly mentioned on ricks show under the center .. that he did not take a spring break to mexico or anywhere... he was watching game film

now i know everyone on CAL's roster did not do that ... will it matter hope not


back the O LINE ... technique wise Dls bear mentioned "how the hell do u get low in a 2 pt stance" ... well they do get as low as possible in the 2 pt stance


need a C that can snap with consistency and they guy needs to stay healthy none of that gone for the rest of the season stuff like last year that really hurt ...the C is crucial not just for snaps in the offenseu

summer work must be u put in ... 3 more months to gel ,build trust in one another thus a building a strong bond = chemistry

they got coach that they believe in ... me guessing by body language they are having fun .. supporting each other helping each other ..

OL trending up ways to go but on the right track.. a lil luck with injuries and health they will be fine

need to see them in fall and if the blocks and footwork are crisp and clean

Vandalus;842308671 said:

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I think the issue here is that unless you played and/or coached offensive line, you aren't going to be able to have any cogent commentary on what's happening out there. It's a complicated position, requiring a ton of technique and skill, so all anyone can really make is general commentary that they looked good, so-so, bad or some combination thereof. Anything more than that is asking a bit much I think from a regular journalist unless they played that position.

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I played OL in HS. And even I have a very tough time with this - offensive line play has evolved a lot in the nearly 15 years (wait what?) since I graduated high school. Zone blocking wasn't even a thing then.

But even more difficult is that offensive line play is very intricate - sometimes an offensive lineman gets beat, but what we have NO idea about are things like - did he expect the lineman next to him to help on the block at the point of attack before moving onto the second level? If your buddy forgets or whiffs, you look like an idiot because you are expecting to double team and shade to one side, but then your teammate is not there and the DL blows right by you. Or maybe you expected a chip from the RB or the TE. The list goes on.

If you want to know if our OL are winning one on one battles in drills...I guess it's interesting. But it tells you very little about how the line will play as a unit come September.

Even watching the scrimmages - without knowing the play calls and the oline assignments, you will not be able to learn much.

SonOfCalVa;842309665 said:

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:p All those who express an interest in a hard science major are suspect.
:p Those who express an intense interest in "occupational" majors (e.g. business, legal studies, engineering) might have a goal other than the NFL on their mind.
:p We need to hire staff to ensure players aren't sneaking into the libraries or are doing research on their devices instead of twittttttering.
:p Contemplating Xrays instead of xBox strategy has to be monitored and controlled.

Recruiting is tough for non-football factories.
Recruiting was so much easier and predictable when the coffee cup guy was here.
Of course, the xBox guru who served coffee, and his boss, never got us to the Rose Bowl.

Maybe we can get back to the Holiday bowl if some of these students perform as athletes.
The athletes who faked academics didn't do it.

:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

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Good news is that a "yes" on any of those boxes means that the player is a "student athlete" not an "employee" and would not be allowed in the union, nor would we have to pay them. But, dammit, looks like we would still have to feed them to prevent "hungry nights", and with Brazinski that might have run up a little.

This whole " need to learn the blocking assignments" has really become a thin umbrella for poor O Line play. These players have been admitted to Cal. They are supposed to be smart enough to figure this part out. I'm really tired of this excuse. You think Stanford has dumb lineman? How about Oregon? This is a caliber of athlete problem. When a true freshman (#66) starts ahead of all the 4 to 5 Star busts on the roster that speaks more to the talent levels and **** poor choices for scholarships by the coaches. The fact that the original center and left tackle from last season were the 'starters' also speaks to the overall talent level to the group. Sonny needs to find better O Line players and to picking the 'will of the wisp' undersize running backs. They are not 'Big' by EBAL standards. We are not big enough or athletic enough now to be competitive in Pac 12 football right now. No more busts or misses on recruits, we have excelled in that area for almost seven years now.

Dduster;842309754 said:

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This whole " need to learn the blocking assignments" has really become a thin umbrella for poor O Line play. These players have been admitted to Cal. They are supposed to be smart enough to figure this part out. I'm really tired of this excuse. You think Stanford has dumb lineman? How about Oregon? This is a caliber of athlete problem. When a true freshman (#66) starts ahead of all the 4 to 5 Star busts on the roster that speaks more to the talent levels and **** poor choices for scholarships by the coaches. The fact that the original center and left tackle from last season were the 'starters' also speaks to the overall talent level to the group. Sonny needs to find better O Line players and to picking the 'will of the wisp' undersize running backs. They are not 'Big' by EBAL standards. We are not big enough or athletic enough now to be competitive in Pac 12 football right now. No more busts or misses on recruits, we have excelled in that area for almost seven years now.

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umm its a newer scheme ... furd runs regluar pro style .. i think most OL in high shools run pro style but the numbers are changing ... now more HS kids are running 2 pt stance spread type o line therefore ... the next batch of o line commits will prob well versed in 2 pt stance blocking

ie cal offered one of luke's OL .. they run 2 pt spread o line blocking if he commits techinques are not so much what he would have to learn but the speed of the game take adjustment .. and if the Oline is not working as a unit its wrap we are just now starting to build up exiperence with the new guys ... now if aug30 comes and they are missing blocks totally ... problem

the concepts are very different espeically if you have been blocking with you hand in you hand in the ground since 8-9 yrs old ...

some people learn at different rates ... thus far its coming together

Dduster;842309754 said:

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...No more busts or misses on recruits ...

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Uh, are you saying that anything less than 100% (by some mysterious measure(s) before the fact) is unacceptable, and you have secret criteria for ensuring "no more busts or misses".
Good luck with that. :axe
But, please, do post your criteria, or send them to Sonny secretly.

OL IS a crap shoot.

furd's recent success occurred when they finally hired an excellent coach and recruiter. But, he's gone. How did furd do under their coaches prior to HairBall?

How, in your judgement, could a highly rated player like Brezinski turn into a football bust while achieving great success academically. Tag was yet another example of a huge body in HS, dominating and devastating undersized DLs, but ran into great difficult at the D1 level.
Was there any way to predict the future performances, or lack thereof, before LOI was signed, with them, with anyone?

We have two commits now ... big guys for their positions, looking pretty damn good on paper (academics) and on video (athletic performance).
Are they football hits, or misses? Booms or busts?
Based upon ... what?

SonOfCalVa;842309769 said:

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How, in your judgement, could a highly rated player like Brezinski turn into a football bust while achieving great success academically. Tag was yet another example of a huge body in HS, dominating and devastating undersized DLs, but ran into great difficult at the D1 level.

Was there any way to predict the future performances, or lack thereof, before LOI was signed, with them, with anyone?

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Both Brezinski and Tagaloa were most likely huge players in there respective high school leagues. Brezinski was from a private school church league in New Jersey. I have no idea how he was given such a high rating other than just being bigger than everyone else? Did anyone go watch this kid in person or just stick to the ratings services 'star' points? As You mentioned both were probably very effective against ~200 lb opponents. The truth to their 'overrated' talent was quickly realized once either was up against athletic equal size players. Neither was athletic or motivated from the history of performance. Brezinski found ways to stay 'off the field' in both practice and games. Bunte sounds like Brezinski all over again with the injury business. Bunte has been injured since high school. Why does this continue to happen,.. damaged goods or just not very good? Sonny needs to gamble on at least five O Line recruits per class if You feel the 'no way to know for success' rules apply.

SonOfCalVa;842309769 said:

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Uh, are you saying that anything less than 100% (by some mysterious measure(s) before the fact) is unacceptable, and you have secret criteria for ensuring "no more busts or misses".
Good luck with that. :axe
But, please, do post your criteria, or send them to Sonny secretly.

OL IS a crap shoot.

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sure OL is hard to project, but Cal's had a much harder time than other P12 schools developing that position. you can blame some of the problems on JT, but the reality is, SD and his staff need to make up for that slack.

Dduster;842309843 said:

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Both Brezinski and Tagaloa were most likely huge players in there respective high school leagues. Brezinski was from a private school church league in New Jersey. I have no idea how he was given such a high rating other than just being bigger than everyone else? Did anyone go watch this kid in person or just stick to the ratings services 'star' points? As You mentioned both were probably very effective against ~200 lb opponents. The truth to their 'overrated' talent was quickly realized once either was up against athletic equal size players. Neither was athletic or motivated from the history of performance. Brezinski found ways to stay 'off the field' in both practice and games. Bunte sounds like Brezinski all over again with the injury business. Bunte has been injured since high school. Why does this continue to happen,.. damaged goods or just not very good? Sonny needs to gamble on at least five O Line recruits per class if You feel the 'no way to know for success' rules apply.

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Yep.
Bunte got signed and we can only hope he recovers.
No less than 3 OL in every class, 5 would be great.

beeasyed;842309845 said:

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sure OL is hard to project, but Cal's had a much harder time than other P12 schools developing that position. you can blame some of the problems on JT, but the reality is, SD and his staff need to make up for that slack.

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Get busy, Yenser !!!