Daily Cal's James Grisom story

28,990 Views | 215 Replies | Last: 11 yr ago by BeggarEd
BabyBear
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At the half. I don't post much. This might be my 2nd post ever. But I do read the forum from time to time. I work with college students and through a family connection get to know student-athletes on campuses where I work pretty well.

These are kids, some 16, 17 years old. Not adults. Not businessmen. If they started reading what they were signing, they'd like be thought of as troublemakers. They sign these the first week of camp with no parents and certainly no lawyers. Who wants to be known as the troublemaker before you've even seen the field? And who has time to read all that? You've got physicals, you're getting sized for equipment, you get a playbook, you may still be registering for classes or finishing up summer bridge classes, you're moving into your dorms only perhaps to pile on buses a few hours later to some far-off camp.

They have a college football scholarship. Period. That's as far at their thoughts go. Not if it's a year. Not will I get another next year. They trust coaches and administrators are helping and protecting them - because that's what those coaches tell them they're doing for them. The team's got a game coming up in 3 weeks. That's where kids thoughts are. Oh, and that going to class thing, too.

Most kids who aren't asked back are told IN JANUARY. Barring academic or behavioral problems, many coaches help them transfer to other schools so if they want to, they can continue to play, whether they are walk-on or scholarship. On some teams and from what I understand this was true during the Tedford era, there is virtually no distinction between schollies and walk-ons. Many walk-ons earn schollies only their senior years. BUT if they earn one as underclassmen, yes, they do expect it will be renewed every year, like all the rest of the schollies without problems.

No one explains anything in detail to any of these kids. They're discouraged from looking at things besides film and the playbook with a critical eye. Yes, even at CAL.

You think Dykes stood up in front of the whole team, awarded walk-ons scholarships and said, "This kid is here for a year! Yay." That's anti-climatic. Coaches don't want any of these kids ESPECIALLY scholarship players even thinking that they could be asked to leave/go unfunded if they make their grades, keep their heads down and do what they're told to do. And scholarships are the carrot he holds out for the 20 kids on each team who are PAYING for the honor of being crash-test dummies on the practice squad. To a "good" kid, no coach is making it clear, a scholarship is not renewable. A kid with school or behavior problems - he's threatened all the time with the loss of the scholarship, but the "good" kid. No, he nor his parents are aware (and having knowledge something is different from being fully aware of something) that his schollie is renewable annually, whether he earned one as a walk on or earned one as a freshman or transfer schollie.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a business. Coaches don't motivate these kids with the business aspects of college sports - they motivate them by promoting a "family" atmosphere. And in what functional family does an adult kick a kid - who has given him no problems - out of the house before he can support himself?
freshfunk
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BabyBear;842354194 said:

At the half. I don't post much. This might be my 2nd post ever. But I do read the forum from time to time. I work with college students and through a family connection get to know student-athletes on campuses where I work pretty well.

These are kids, some 16, 17 years old. Not adults. Not businessmen. If they started reading what they were signing, they'd like be thought of as troublemakers. They sign these the first week of camp with no parents and certainly no lawyers. Who wants to be known as the troublemaker before you've even seen the field? And who has time to read all that? You've got physicals, you're getting sized for equipment, you get a playbook, you may still be registering for classes or finishing up summer bridge classes, you're moving into your dorms only perhaps to pile on buses a few hours later to some far-off camp.

They have a college football scholarship. Period. That's as far at their thoughts go. Not if it's a year. Not will I get another next year. They trust coaches and administrators are helping and protecting them - because that's what those coaches tell them they're doing for them. The team's got a game coming up in 3 weeks. That's where kids thoughts are. Oh, and that going to class thing, too.

Most kids who aren't asked back are told IN JANUARY. Barring academic or behavioral problems, many coaches help them transfer to other schools so if they want to, they can continue to play, whether they are walk-on or scholarship. On some teams and from what I understand this was true during the Tedford era, there is virtually no distinction between schollies and walk-ons. Many walk-ons earn schollies only their senior years. BUT if they earn one as underclassmen, yes, they do expect it will be renewed every year, like all the rest of the schollies without problems.

No one explains anything in detail to any of these kids. They're discouraged from looking at things besides film and the playbook with a critical eye. Yes, even at CAL.

You think Dykes stood up in front of the whole team, awarded walk-ons scholarships and said, "This kid is here for a year! Yay." That's anti-climatic. Coaches don't want any of these kids ESPECIALLY scholarship players even thinking that they could be asked to leave/go unfunded if they make their grades, keep their heads down and do what they're told to do. And scholarships are the carrot he holds out for the 20 kids on each team who are PAYING for the honor of being crash-test dummies on the practice squad. To a "good" kid, no coach is making it clear, a scholarship is not renewable. A kid with school or behavior problems - he's threatened all the time with the loss of the scholarship, but the "good" kid. No, he nor his parents are aware (and having knowledge something is different from being fully aware of something) that his schollie is renewable annually, whether he earned one as a walk on or earned one as a freshman or transfer schollie.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a business. Coaches don't motivate these kids with the business aspects of college sports - they motivate them by promoting a "family" atmosphere. And in what functional family does an adult kick a kid - who has given him no problems - out of the house before he can support himself?


Thank you, Baby Bear! If I recall correctly you worked somewhere in the program or has close connections. I'm glad you've cleared things up with all the naysayers here trying to muddle the situation by creating imaginary distinctions.

Anyway, I care more about Grissom than the BI members here who will go to any extent to defend the staff. If you hear of ways we can help Grissom financially, please let us know. I'll gladly put money towards him and his future.
NYCGOBEARS
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freshfunk;842354248 said:

Thank you, Baby Bear! If I recall correctly you worked somewhere in the program or has close connections. I'm glad you've cleared things up with all the naysayers here trying to muddle the situation by creating imaginary distinctions.

Anyway, I care more about Grissom than the BI members here who will go to any extent to defend the staff. If you hear of ways we can help Grissom financially, please let us know. I'll gladly put money towards him and his future.

You are beyond sanctimonious.
ecb
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freshfunk;842354248 said:

Thank you, Baby Bear! If I recall correctly you worked somewhere in the program or has close connections. I'm glad you've cleared things up with all the naysayers here trying to muddle the situation by creating imaginary distinctions.

Anyway, I care more about Grissom than the BI members here who will go to any extent to defend the staff. If you hear of ways we can help Grissom financially, please let us know. I'll gladly put money towards him and his future.


It's not necessarily either or. The staff clearly messed up, but it might be more innocent than you seem to think. Doesn't mean that those people wouldn't also be happy to help Grissom if possible.
freshfunk
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ecb;842354256 said:

It's not necessarily either or. The staff clearly messed up, but it might be more innocent than you seem to think. Doesn't mean that those people wouldn't also be happy to help Grissom if possible.


I don't think it was malicious but I still think he got screwed. I think BabyBear has made it clear what the expectations are of the athletes and the environment in the program which are counter to what happened. I think what's worse are the attitude of some here who will find any potential excuse possible even to the point where they call our players liars.
jyamada
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freshfunk;842354248 said:

Thank you, Baby Bear! If I recall correctly you worked somewhere in the program or has close connections. I'm glad you've cleared things up with all the naysayers here trying to muddle the situation by creating imaginary distinctions.

Anyway, I care more about Grissom than the BI members here who will go to any extent to defend the staff. If you hear of ways we can help Grissom financially, please let us know. I'll gladly put money towards him and his future.




You're at the other end of the spectrum......you will go to great lengths to try and discredit Dykes and his staff by creating imaginary scandals/conflicts with your incessant nitpicking. Your treatment of Dykes reminds me of what the republicans try to do to Obama.
freshfunk
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jyamada;842354346 said:

You're at the other end of the spectrum......you will go to great lengths to try and discredit Dykes and his staff by creating imaginary scandals/conflicts with your incessant nitpicking. Your treatment of Dykes reminds me of what the republicans try to do to Obama.


Imaginary scandals? Care to tell me what they are? The Grissom issue was reported by the Daily Cal. The Hale incident also reported in the media. What great lengths have I gone to? Did I dig up some obscure story? Did I even post either story? The person who posted this story has been an avid Dykes supporter if you've followed this board.
jamonit
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KevBear;842353640 said:

All Cal FB players have 1 year renewable scholarships. Didn't you read what the Cal AAD said in the article?



I am almost certain I gave more weight to the possibility that Grisom is at fault here than you did to the possibility that the staff was at fault. smdh...



I've signed many, many documents without reading them and with getting only the most summary explanation of what was inside. A lot of them could have had clauses giving away my first born and I'd never know, because I didn't read them and the person handing it to me tells me in six words what this 1,200 word three-page document is about. Bottom line about the contract: it's the same one all Cal scholarship players have, recruit or former walk-on alike. Since according to Cal's own ADs, Cal automatically renews athletic scholarships in almost all cases but major misconduct, I don't see this as something that casts significant doubt on Grisom's claims that he was never aware that the scholarship would only be made available for him for that one year.

I want to be sure you understand the nuance, so I'm going to walk you through it:

(1) Every single Cal football player officially and legally has the exact same one-year renewable scholarship

(2) According to Stivers, if a student-athlete is not having major conduct issues, their scholarship will be renewed

So Grisom has the same contract as every other Cal FB player, and every Cal FB player who isn't involved in misconduct always gets re-upped (at least until the graduate). According to Grisom, he was never told by the staff that this was a "gift" that was never intended to be renewed. If all of these things are true, how could he be at fault for going into this year assuming he would continue as a scholarship player?





Yeah, sure. It's entirely possible that Grisom is lying or mistaken. Of course, I already acknowledged that was a possibility in my first post, but that couldn't matter less.

You are correct in that all we have is Grisom's side of the story. It's not proof of anything--or at all necessarily true, but it's pretty plain and entirely plausible and so far not a single word has been given by anyone party to the incident to dispute the truth of what he says. All we have is Grisom's side of the story because Dykes opted for 'no comment.' This should matter to you, this is a serious allegation, not in a legal sense but in a public relations sense and frankly in a sense of decency and responsibility. People who aren't associated with the program or big time CFB read that and were disgusted. If how Grisom says it happened is not accurate/truthful, Dykes should speak up because he's being accused of doing a garbage thing. This is not a 'take the high road' situation. It seems very significant to you that we do not know the "whole story," but that's because Dykes preferred it that way. Interestingly, in your many posts in this thread I don't see one word of criticism for Dykes for failing to come up with the rest of the story.


You are so obtuse... recruited scholarship athlete and walk on receiving a one year scholarship is not the same. Please read that. They are different. Not sure why u cant understand. It has been explained over and over to you. Yes all scholarships are one year deals, but for a recruited athlete you need sign off to revoke a scholarship while giving a walk on a one year schollie u don't. Read that and understand it. If u keep saying the wrong thing then ur deliberately being a contrarian.
KevBear
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BabyBear;842354194 said:

At the half. I don't post much. This might be my 2nd post ever. But I do read the forum from time to time. I work with college students and through a family connection get to know student-athletes on campuses where I work pretty well.

These are kids, some 16, 17 years old. Not adults. Not businessmen. If they started reading what they were signing, they'd like be thought of as troublemakers. They sign these the first week of camp with no parents and certainly no lawyers. Who wants to be known as the troublemaker before you've even seen the field? And who has time to read all that? You've got physicals, you're getting sized for equipment, you get a playbook, you may still be registering for classes or finishing up summer bridge classes, you're moving into your dorms only perhaps to pile on buses a few hours later to some far-off camp.

They have a college football scholarship. Period. That's as far at their thoughts go. Not if it's a year. Not will I get another next year. They trust coaches and administrators are helping and protecting them - because that's what those coaches tell them they're doing for them. The team's got a game coming up in 3 weeks. That's where kids thoughts are. Oh, and that going to class thing, too.

Most kids who aren't asked back are told IN JANUARY. Barring academic or behavioral problems, many coaches help them transfer to other schools so if they want to, they can continue to play, whether they are walk-on or scholarship. On some teams and from what I understand this was true during the Tedford era, there is virtually no distinction between schollies and walk-ons. Many walk-ons earn schollies only their senior years. BUT if they earn one as underclassmen, yes, they do expect it will be renewed every year, like all the rest of the schollies without problems.

No one explains anything in detail to any of these kids. They're discouraged from looking at things besides film and the playbook with a critical eye. Yes, even at CAL.

You think Dykes stood up in front of the whole team, awarded walk-ons scholarships and said, "This kid is here for a year! Yay." That's anti-climatic. Coaches don't want any of these kids ESPECIALLY scholarship players even thinking that they could be asked to leave/go unfunded if they make their grades, keep their heads down and do what they're told to do. And scholarships are the carrot he holds out for the 20 kids on each team who are PAYING for the honor of being crash-test dummies on the practice squad. To a "good" kid, no coach is making it clear, a scholarship is not renewable. A kid with school or behavior problems - he's threatened all the time with the loss of the scholarship, but the "good" kid. No, he nor his parents are aware (and having knowledge something is different from being fully aware of something) that his schollie is renewable annually, whether he earned one as a walk on or earned one as a freshman or transfer schollie.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a business. Coaches don't motivate these kids with the business aspects of college sports - they motivate them by promoting a "family" atmosphere. And in what functional family does an adult kick a kid - who has given him no problems - out of the house before he can support himself?


Thanks for the perspective, Babybear. Pretty much all of it is the impression I had.
KevBear
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jamonit;842354432 said:

You are so obtuse... recruited scholarship athlete and walk on receiving a one year scholarship is not the same. Please read that. They are different. Not sure why u cant understand. It has been explained over and over to you. Yes all scholarships are one year deals, but for a recruited athlete you need sign off to revoke a scholarship while giving a walk on a one year schollie u don't. Read that and understand it. If u keep saying the wrong thing then ur deliberately being a contrarian.


What are you sourcing for all the authority you're claiming for this?
jamonit
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KevBear;842354435 said:

What are you sourcing for all the authority you're claiming for this?


Way better sourcing than you... plus the article even states it. It is sad u read the article and can't understand the partial quotes the writer uses from Cal... All scholarships are one year. We don't revoke a scholarship for poor production. Grisom had his scholarship not renewed... Hmmm how is that possible if we dont revoke for bad play? I don't expect u to try and come up with an answer. I will expect more of the same misunderstanding ur posting. Walk on players who are awarded a one year scholarship because we have room under our 85 player roster is not the same as a recruited athlete.
KevBear
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jamonit;842354441 said:

Way better sourcing than you... plus the article even states it. It is sad u read the article and can't understand the partial quotes the writer uses from Cal... All scholarships are one year. We don't revoke a scholarship for poor production. Grisom had his scholarship not renewed... Hmmm how is that possible if we dont revoke for bad play? I don't expect u to try and come up with an answer. I will expect more of the same misunderstanding ur posting. Walk on players who are awarded a one year scholarship because we have room under our 85 player roster is not the same as a recruited athlete.


That's it?!? That's your only source for all of your certainty about the mechanics of underclassmen walk-ons and scholarships?

I don't think the quotes from the AD in the article are explicitly decisive either way, but you have to be pretty stupid to think they actually validate your position. If anything, they imply that performance, i.e. how good a football player is at football, has nothing to do with renewal. Barring misconduct, scholarships are automatically renewed. You have to be some special species of stupid to think these quotes in any way strengthen your position.

“At Cal, generally, no, we do not revoke scholarships on the basis of performance,” Stivers said. “If it’s somebody who’s not as good as the coach thought they were going to be, we make the coach live with it. That’s why we feel we don’t even need to give four-year scholarships. If the student’s not having major conduct issues, it will be renewed.”

Seems pretty cut and dried, except for one thing: it doesn't explicitly reference former walk-ons. That leaves some ambiguity, but it does nothing to help you.

Just admit the truth: you have no idea how it really works. Your reaction in this thread is the reflex of a homer wanting to see the program protected, and ultimately even if everything Babybear claimed about how it works was accurate and everything Grisom said was true, you still wouldn't give a flying ****.
jamonit
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KevBear;842354489 said:

That's it?!? That's your only source for all of your certainty about the mechanics of underclassmen walk-ons and scholarships?

I don't think the quotes from the AD in the article are explicitly decisive either way, but you have to be pretty stupid to think they actually validate your position. If anything, they imply that performance, i.e. how good a football player is at football, has nothing to do with renewal. Barring misconduct, scholarships are automatically renewed. You have to be some special species of stupid to think these quotes in any way strengthen your position.

"At Cal, generally, no, we do not revoke scholarships on the basis of performance," Stivers said. "If it's somebody who's not as good as the coach thought they were going to be, we make the coach live with it. That's why we feel we don't even need to give four-year scholarships. If the student's not having major conduct issues, it will be renewed."

Seems pretty cut and dried, except for one thing: it doesn't explicitly reference former walk-ons. That leaves some ambiguity, but it does nothing to help you.

Just admit the truth: you have no idea how it really works. Your reaction in this thread is the reflex of a homer wanting to see the program protected, and ultimately even if everything Babybear claimed about how it works was accurate and everything Grisom said was true, you still wouldn't give a flying ****.


You can't even read what I wrote. No wonder you can't understand anything. U, like freshfunk, are a waste of time. U can believe anything ur dumb mind wants to believe. Ur beyond help and not worth reading or responding too... Love the ignore feature!
Shocky1
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stalefunk, is it really true that you're still mad at a girl you went on a date 10 years ago to olive garden because you thought it was a lifetime commitment?
MiZery
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Not to worry guys. The money that freshfunk saved by refusing to donate to the University as long as Dykes is coach will be used to help Grisom
BearGoggles
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KevBear;842354489 said:

That's it?!? That's your only source for all of your certainty about the mechanics of underclassmen walk-ons and scholarships?

I don't think the quotes from the AD in the article are explicitly decisive either way, but you have to be pretty stupid to think they actually validate your position. If anything, they imply that performance, i.e. how good a football player is at football, has nothing to do with renewal. Barring misconduct, scholarships are automatically renewed. You have to be some special species of stupid to think these quotes in any way strengthen your position.

“At Cal, generally, no, we do not revoke scholarships on the basis of performance,” Stivers said. “If it’s somebody who’s not as good as the coach thought they were going to be, we make the coach live with it. That’s why we feel we don’t even need to give four-year scholarships. If the student’s not having major conduct issues, it will be renewed.”

Seems pretty cut and dried, except for one thing: it doesn't explicitly reference former walk-ons. That leaves some ambiguity, but it does nothing to help you.

Just admit the truth: you have no idea how it really works. Your reaction in this thread is the reflex of a homer wanting to see the program protected, and ultimately even if everything Babybear claimed about how it works was accurate and everything Grisom said was true, you still wouldn't give a flying ****.


I think you need to take a step back and consider a few larger concepts at play here.

First of all, the general practice is that walk ons are awarded scholarships that are [U]temporarily [/U]available - often at the last minute - when there is unexpected attrition or a recruit doesn't make it in. Donovan Frazier is the most recent example - he got his scholly last week and he's unlikely ever to see the field. Basically a good, hardworking guy who got a nice reward. Good for him.

There seems to be a general consensus on the board that walk on schollies are implicitly for one year. I recognize there is some disagreement about that. But let me ask you this: why would staff award a scholarship that is temporarily available to a non-senior walk on for more than one year? Doing so would mean that the walk on - a guy who likely is not contributing in a major way on the field - is now taking a spot in your next recruiting class. 99% of the time, a coach will not make that choice unless there are lots of extra schollies or the walk on is a huge contributor. In virtually any event, the coach is going to reserve the right to evaluate the decision after the next recruiting class plays out.

In this case, it seems clear that staff and the Cal admin didn't communicate properly. Maybe staff wanted to spread the wealth around and show some love to other walk ons - guys like Donovan Frazier? Maybe staff thought Grisom had other aid that was available to him (as he apparently did to some extent)? Maybe staff didn't think they had an extra scholly until recently (I know we had a few players that were supposed to come but didn't). Maybe they were upset with Grisom (doesn't seem to be the case, but who knows). The bottom line is there are many reasonable justifications and the fault is in the lack of communication, not NECESSARILY the decision itself.

And it is exceedingly difficult to believe Grisom didn't know he was receiving extra $. He was receiving cash (and no small amount) and a full ride and thought that was ok, when no one else gets that deal? Doesn't excuse Cal admin's incompetence, but he had to know something wasn't quite right.

This situation is unfortunate and I wish Grisom would have been renewed. However, the problem was the communication from staff (and incompetence of Cal admin) - not that Grisom was deprived of a "right" to a scholarship.
SurvivorOf1and10fkaLEA
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Eeyore;842354152 said:

Wow, you're comparing Grisom's situation to that of child sex slaves. Didn't think anyone on BI would stoop to this level. I suppose Grisom should also consider it a privilege to entertain you on Saturdays. And if he's of no use to the team, throwing him off since he's a walk-on who doesn't need to have scholarship renewed... I'd like to think Cal alums consider walk-on as valuable as those with scholarships b/c these walk-on bust their asses and care about their academic experience. This is what separates Cal alums from SEC alums.


No. I'm saying exactly the opposite. You can't compare Grisom's non-problem to a real problem like child sex slavery. I was contrasting not comparing.

He was rewarded for his prior hard work, wasn't promised anything beyond one year, and failed to perform well enough to deserve renewal. Where is the tragedy? Finish school and pay for your education like everybody else. No one put a gun to his head to play football. I'm disappointed to see the Daily Cal stoop to this kind of sensationalistic journalism like so many of the other worthless rags that are out there.
SurvivorOf1and10fkaLEA
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You people need to learn how to read or get basic lessons in logical reasoning. Did I say only people who have it as bad as child sex slaves deserve sympathy, you moron? I mentioned it as an example of people in this world with real problems. People with ALS, cancer, AIDS, people starving to death, disabled veterans, illegal immigrants with no hope of getting a college education. Child sex slaves are just one example. There are things in this world that are more deserving of our attention and sympathy than a healthy young man with the good fortune of getting a Cal education.
RighteousGoldenBear
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Well, one thing is for certain. After this fiasco, you can pretty much guarantee never seeing another non-senior walk-on receive a scholarship. Anyone else notice that the only walk-ons that received a scholarship this year were all seniors?
going4roses
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hold on now player ... starting out with YOU PEOPLE is a problem ..." some of you people " would a bit more appropriate imo
freshfunk
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Shocky1;842354679 said:

stalefunk, is it really true that you're still mad at a girl you went on a date 10 years ago to olive garden because you thought it was a lifetime commitment?


Can't make an argument worth a damn so you resort to personal attacks. Nice. Guess you don't give a damn about Grissom since you think this is a laughing matter. Same goes for you, Mizery and NYCGO. Biggest disappointment is in you NYC.
freshfunk
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BearGoggles;842354805 said:


There seems to be a general consensus on the board that walk on schollies are implicitly for one year.


That is actually the biggest danger here. If you've ever studied social psychology, then you know the strength of the pressure of conformity. Studies by Asch show that most people are susceptible to conformity in exactly these situations (extreme pressure and discomfort). The repeated abrasive and mocking behavior of posters like Mizery (and now NYCGO) hark back to the Stanford Prison Experiment which showed that common everyday people can assume certain roles and take on very power hungry behavior, especially when their identity can be concealed. If we used real identities here and if this were all face to face, you can bet these people would not have the temerity to behave as they do now.

The consensus of those who've clearly been extremely biased and show no potential for objective judgment means nothing. It also sits in contradiction to the position of someone very close to THIS program and public words by the people who head the AD. Consensus by rando board members is pretty meaningless, especially by the likes of posters like jamonit who've repeatedly made up facts to support his arguments. If there were consensus among former Cal student athletes and people in the program, that would be meaningful.
txwharfrat
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I can't follow this at all. One year temporary scholarships to Walk-on players when we are under 85 are different. Period. End of story. I wouldn't expect Sfephen Anderson's scholarship to be automatically renewed for his senior season next year.

Let's not have the same irrational reaction If that happens.....
93gobears
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KoreAmBear;842353124 said:

By the way, this is about as well-written a story as I have seen by the Daily Cal, maybe ever.


Gotta agree with that one.
93gobears
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14 pages already and I haven't added my opinion? I apologize. I've been busy with work.

Only got through the first 4 pages, then decided to work my way back from 14 to 1.

Can someone fill me in? Who is the jerk here? Or am I the last one in the room?
GB54
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93gobears;842354896 said:

14 pages already and I haven't added my opinion? I apologize. I've been busy with work.

Only got through the first 4 pages, then decided to work my way back from 14 to 1.

Can someone fill me in? Who is the jerk here? Or am I the last one in the room?


BI is like prison rape.
mvargus
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The thing I haven't seen in all these posts is a realization that the problem isn't that James Grisom's scholarship got pulled. The financial aid office is demanding payment from 2013 because due to an error he got his athletic scholarship money, but they also paid him his regular financial aid that he was getting before he was offered the one year scholarship. It has nothing to do with his scholarship being pulled.

I agree that its bad and sad because the way the NCAA regulates everything no alumni could help him with the payback without making him ineligible to play football. However, it seems the mistake was the university's financial aid office so we shouldn't be trying to put the blame on the coaches in this case.
93gobears
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GB54;842354935 said:

BI is like prison rape.


Don't bother me, I'm busy updating Pat Haden's Wiki page.
powripp
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freshfunk;842354887 said:

Can't make an argument worth a damn so you resort to personal attacks.


SOP for that poster
going4roses
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anybody come up with a resolution ? yet ... im trying help not talk not insult each other .. over really F up situation ..
NYCGOBEARS
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freshfunk;842354887 said:

Can't make an argument worth a damn so you resort to personal attacks. Nice. Guess you don't give a damn about Grissom since you think this is a laughing matter. Same goes for you, Mizery and NYCGO. Biggest disappointment is in you NYC.

For my poor joke, I apologize. I've deleted it. After going back and reading it, it seemed like unnecessary piling on.

As for my other posts, I stand by them. You have many times in this thread come across as unbelievably sanctimonious. I believe that though your heart is in the right place, your anger is misplaced.

Let's be clear. I have nothing personally against you and have in fact defended you many times in the past even though it wasn't necessarily popular to do so.
WhipItOutJoe
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NYCGOBEARS;842355122 said:

For my poor joke, I apologize. I've deleted it. After going back and reading it, it seemed like unnecessary piling on.

As for my other posts, I stand by them. You have many times in this thread come across as unbelievably sanctimonious. I believe that though your heart is in the right place, your anger is misplaced.

Let's be clear. I have nothing personally against you and have in fact defended you many times in the past even though it wasn't necessarily popular to do so.


Bummer - looks like this thread got Peter, aka freshfunk, permanently banned. Too bad, I hate to see that happen to anyone and even if you disagree with him, Peter is a genuinely good guy who does bleed blue and gold.
NYCGOBEARS
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WhipItOutJoe;842355786 said:

Bummer - looks like this thread got Peter, aka freshfunk, permanently banned. Too bad, I hate to see that happen to anyone and even if you disagree with him, Peter is a genuinely good guy who does bleed blue and gold.


I had no idea. That makes me sad as I genuinely like him as a person and would never question his love for Cal.
burritos
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Hope it's a temporary time out. We've all made internet mistakes. I certainly have. FF contributes way more than he detracts. It's not like he's Trojan Al, Amy, or a furdie troll who deserve banishment. If his passion and lines of reasoning annoy you, ignore.
NYCGOBEARS
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burritos;842355804 said:

Hope it's a temporary time out. We've all made internet mistakes. I certainly have. FF contributes way more than he detracts. It's not like he's Trojan Al, Amy, or a furdie troll who deserve banishment. If his passion and lines of reasoning annoy you, ignore.

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