calumnus;842487539 said:

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"Campus outreach" efforts are to the high schools (think Central Valley) where the top 2% often do not apply--it is to encourage kids to apply to Cal not a stated admission preference.

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Of course, you can't state that but it's a good not a bad thing; such kids may be flagged and considered under local circumstances

GB54;842487556 said:

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Of course, you can't state that but it's a good not a bad thing; such kids may be flagged and considered under local circumstances

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Sure you could state that, but they don't need to--as I said, top 2% from every high school is pretty much guaranteed admission--so the key is getting them all to apply.

In 1995, if you had a certain gpa and sat, you were guaranteed admittance. That must have changed. I really don't like the out of state preference thing, especially for lesser qualified students. And I live out for state! I refuse to go to the New England events where you're supposed to pump cal to prospective freshmen. Just doesn't seem right. They should be elated to go there anyway, and I'm not going to lobby for a kid to take a California kid's place.

Data for admits as of June 2014:

GPA:
In-State: 3.89
Out-of-State: 3.92

SAT:
In-State: 2124
Out-of-State: 2171

ACT:
In-State: 32
Out-of-State: 33

http://admissions.berkeley.edu/studentprofile

berk18;842487563 said:

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Data for admits as of June 2014:

GPA:
In-State: 3.89
Out-of-State: 3.92

SAT:
In-State: 2124
Out-of-State: 2171

ACT:
In-State: 32
Out-of-State: 33

http://admissions.berkeley.edu/studentprofile

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That must've taken you hours to dig up!

UCBerkGrad;842487529 said:

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Just post it and be done with the argument

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I would if I weren't at Disneyland right now but i believe it's right on the admissions website. Can't miss it.

"Data for admits as of June 2014..."

Admits are not matriculants. Many of those admits attend elsewhere after looking at the $57k price tag vs. a private college at not much more $$; much lower yield than instate applicants. (And those at the higher end of that admit pool also have great private options.)

pingpong2;842487569 said:

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I would if I weren't at Disneyland right now but i believe it's right on the admissions website. Can't miss it.

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Is this the info you are talking about?....sure seems OOS students have higher everything by a tad. This says "student profile" so not sure those are the stats in question.

CA Resident Out-of-State International
*Based on Office of Undergraduate Admissions freshman data as of 06/05/14.
Admits/Apps 8,307 / 43,883 3,322 / 16,629 1,356 / 13,260
Admit Rate 18.9% 20% 10.2%
Avg. GPA Apps 3.61 3.72 3.68
Avg. GPA Admit 3.89 3.92 3.89
Avg. SAT Apps 1837 2018 1992
Avg. SAT Admit 2124 2171 2124
Avg. ACT Apps 28 31 29
Avg. ACT Admit 32 33 32

http://admissions.berkeley.edu/studentprofile

YuSeeBerkeley;842487431 said:

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I don't understand the point of this post. Is it to humble brag about how great your essay was despite spending little time and effort on it? Or do you actually want a copy of some meaningless essay from years ago?

I swear there are some real dbags here. A guy comes here to vent about how his kid got rejected at his alma mater, and everybody's reaction is to just tell him that his kid is nothing special. To the OP, chin up. If your kid really wants to go to Cal, there's always a chance he or she could transfer. If not, there's always grad school. It could also be a blessing in disguise to go somewhere less academically competitive/cutthroat.

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Sorry if it came off like bragging, it wasn't my intention. My comment was made in the context of everybody else throwing around their admittance stats and me comparing my GPA and SAT to what others posted. I can only conclude that my essay must have been the difference maker for me since I didn't measure up quite as well as to what others said they did on the GPA or SAT. Getting into and graduating from Cal was a very meaningful experience for me, as I would assume it was for many on this board. For all of us it started with submitting an application that included an essay. I'd like to read my essay again. I don't get your point of calling it meaningless or making it personal by calling people dbags.

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-c1-cal-freshmen-20130816-dto-htmlstory.html

MrGPAC;842487525 said:

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My sister and I are fourth generation Cal grads and both of us transfered from JCs to Cal. I dropped out of high school but maintained a 4.0 GPA at my JC. I was admitted to all 3 UCs I applied to and had a full scholarship offer from UCLA.

Keep in mind the grade inflation at JCs is a lot more contained than it is in highschool and the ability to go over a 4.0 doesn't exist (there are no +/- in JC).

You tend to have two groups of people at JCs. People who are busting their rump to get to the next level and get into a UC school, and those who are there because their parents say they have to be...but if you work your ass off you are rewarded with a good education and undergrad classes with 30 people in them instead of 300 like you might get at UC Berkeley. You are also taught by people passionate about the subject matter AND about teaching instead of getting a majority of your information from someone who has to teach to fund their research and GSIs.

As far as Cal and UCLA go...I did notice a huge bias towards sending nor cal kids to UCLA and socal kids to Cal if all other things are equal. If you are in the bay area there is a chance that there was some in state location bias to get kids living away from home for college. I know 90% of my frat was from socal and I was the only person I met at Cal in my time there that grew up in Berkeley.

~MrGPAC

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Was meeting yourself at Cal a result of a magic mushroom trip above the big C?

Big Dog;842487571 said:

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"Data for admits as of June 2014..."

Admits are not matriculants. Many of those admits attend elsewhere after looking at the $57k price tag vs. a private college at not much more $$; much lower yield than instate applicants. (And those at the higher end of that admit pool also have great private options.)

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But the point still stands, of the out of state students they did admit, those are the stats. They don't all obviously matriculate. But those that do are coming from a pool of applicants and then a pool admits that is across the board better than in state students. People have provided you with specific numbers about who is applying and who is getting accepted. The numbers do not agree with your opinions.

We're waitlisting Duke admits, the new normal.

BearBackerinLA;842487575 said:

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http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-c1-cal-freshmen-20130816-dto-htmlstory.html

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inspirational story:

http://www.dailycal.org/2014/11/03/beyond-banner-truly-inspired-poster-students/

emanbears24;842487410 said:

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This is just silly.

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I agree that it's silly; unfortunately, it's true. Cal's admission policies are totally out of whack.

PapaBear93;842487381 said:

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However, I disagree with jackbauerish that having parents who are Cal alumni and who may donate to their alma mater should make any difference in whether their child gets a leg up or not in the admissions game.

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Having parents and/or grandparents that are Cal alums should definitely be taken into consideration when admitting new students. That's how you build up a loyal donor base. Private schools have milked this for years with great success. Now that Cal is becoming a quasi-private school (given the dramatic reduction in state funding) it should start taking advantage of this funding source.

CALiforniALUM;842487574 said:

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Sorry if it came off like bragging, it wasn't my intention. My comment was made in the context of everybody else throwing around their admittance stats and me comparing my GPA and SAT to what others posted. I can only conclude that my essay must have been the difference maker for me since I didn't measure up quite as well as to what others said they did on the GPA or SAT. Getting into and graduating from Cal was a very meaningful experience for me, as I would assume it was for many on this board. For all of us it started with submitting an application that included an essay. I'd like to read my essay again. I don't get your point of calling it meaningless or making it personal by calling people dbags.

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The second paragraph wasn't directed at you. It was to the other posters who were basically shooting down the hopes and dreams of a fellow alum. I could have made that clearer, so that's on me. Sorry. Your explanation also adds context that I didn't consider, so I'll take back my comment about the humble brag as well.

Golden One;842487596 said:

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Having parents and/or grandparents that are Cal alums should definitely be taken into consideration when admitting new students. That's how you build up a loyal donor base. Private schools have milked this for years with great success. Now that Cal is becoming a quasi-private school (given the dramatic reduction in state funding) it should start taking advantage of this funding source.

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Yes. It's the reality of no longer being reliant on state funding. If this were Cal even 20yrs ago, fine, no preferential treatment for donors, multi-generational Bears etc. But that's the only way we can level the playingb field in today's funding environment.

Haashole;842487612 said:

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Yes. It's the reality of no longer being reliant on state funding. If this were Cal even 20yrs ago, fine, no preferential treatment for donors, multi-generational Bears etc. But that's the only way we can level the playingb field in today's funding environment.

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But how do you do this? The more you give, the more preference . If you don't give enough..,sorry? Even Stanford doesn't give this kind of treatment anymore.

For the legacy thing, do we actually have stats for Cal? Harvard's student body is ~13% legacy. Stanford is what, 14-15% legacy? The Ivy League schools and Stanford reject the vast majority (70-80%) of legacy applicants even if legacies do have a better chance at getting in. USC ranges from 18-24% legacy, and I would guess that that number is dropping. Cal might not give preference to legacy students, but are we actually off in terms of legacy enrollment, and if so how much?

I was at the local (greater Philly area) reception for those students accepted or considering Cal. Cost of Cal was not a point of conversation among a single person....

mbBear;842487618 said:

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I was at the local (greater Philly area) reception for those students accepted or considering Cal. Cost of Cal was not a point of conversation among a single person....

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Prob not a huge point of concern with out of state state students. The price is not a surprise. In my experience, these kids are generally affluent and have ridiculous resumes, better than in state kids.

GB54;842487614 said:

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But how do you do this? The more you give, the more preference . If you don't give enough..,sorry? Even Stanford doesn't give this kind of treatment anymore.

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You misunderstand. I'm not proposing that admissions preference be based on how much you give, but rather that it be based on whether your parents/grandparents were Cal alumni. The private schools have demonstrated that legacy admissions do great things for donations, endowments, etc.

Sorry about those rejected..that's life..My high school seniors, many of whom go to four year schools, don't even apply to Cal or Ucla anymore like they used to. They see a total of 200,000 applicants and the word is out - Chinese, Asians, and "special kids" who didn't do all the student council, voluteering, resume building, and cheating in their AP classes to try and get in to either school with a 5.0 GPA! The other UCs suffer the same way - UCSD is reserved for scientists, UCD for farmers, UCSB surfers, UCI is also "all Asian" and hell to survive - Santa Cruz hardly matters to them - and the rest of the campuses are just blurs on their iphones. Sorry for those who wanted Cal, but there is nothing you can do about it. The JC route makes sense - even at Stanford where Foothill JC used to be a pipeline and Santa Monica CC to Ucla..Good luck all.

Haashole

My vote for best BearInsider name. Brilliant! Well played, Mr. Burgundy, well played.

72CalBear;842487626 said:

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Sorry about those rejected..that's life..My high school seniors, many of whom go to four year schools, don't even apply to Cal or Ucla anymore like they used to. They see a total of 200,000 applicants and the word is out - Chinese, Asians, and "special kids" who didn't do all the student council, voluteering, resume building, and cheating in their AP classes to try and get in to either school with a 5.0 GPA! The other UCs suffer the same way - UCSD is reserved for scientists, UCD for farmers, UCSB surfers, UCI is also "all Asian" and hell to survive - Santa Cruz hardly matters to them - and the rest of the campuses are just blurs on their iphones. Sorry for those who wanted Cal, but there is nothing you can do about it. The JC route makes sense - even at Stanford where Foothill JC used to be a pipeline and Santa Monica CC to Ucla..Good luck all.

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Let's tell all the asian kids and according to you specifically Chinese kids to be less competitive so that your "seniors" can go to a UC. While you are at it, keep teaching your seniors to expect things to be handed to them.

"The stats are available, the out of state kids have higher everything than the in state kids."


sorry, socaligan, your post #9 has not been supported since it excludes matriculants, which I would include with the bolded. And (most folks) know that that the stats of matriculants are lower that admittances for every school with the possible exceptions of HYP+Caltech. So, no, not "everything."

fwiw" And to me, the only thing that truly matters is matriculants. Admitting dozens/hundreds of applicants who end up at 'furd, or Northwestern or Duke or the Ancient Eight, or even u$c with a Presidential, only boosts the admit stat, but is meaningless for the actual class, since we lose the cross-admit battle the vast majority of the time. But others may have a different pov.

Back when UC Statfinder was available, and using a little bit of numbers-crunching, the numbers for instate and OOS enrolled students were available. And that data, which was UC's actual data of actual students, did not show that OOS students had higher numbers. Quite the contrary.

Big Dog;842487646 said:

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"The stats are available, the out of state kids have higher everything than the in state kids."


sorry, socaligan, your post #9 has not been supported since it excludes matriculants, which I would include with the bolded. And (most folks) know that that the stats of matriculants are lower that admittances for every school with the possible exceptions of HYP+Caltech. So, no, not "everything."

fwiw" And to me, the only thing that truly matters is matriculants. Admitting dozens/hundreds of applicants who end up at 'furd, or Northwestern or Duke or the Ancient Eight, or even u$c with a Presidential, only boosts the admit stat, but is meaningless for the actual class, since we lose the cross-admit battle the vast majority of the time. But others may have a different pov.

Back when UC Statfinder was available, and using a little bit of numbers-crunching, the numbers for instate and OOS enrolled students were available. And that data, which was UC's actual data of actual students, did not show that OOS students had higher numbers. Quite the contrary.

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In the end you have absolutely nothing to support your idea. Nothing at all. All we know is the applicant pool from out of state is stronger than that of in state. We know that as a fact. Awesome.

Big Dog;842487646 said:

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"The stats are available, the out of state kids have higher everything than the in state kids."


sorry, socaligan, your post #9 has not been supported since it excludes matriculants, which I would include with the bolded. And (most folks) know that that the stats of matriculants are lower that admittances for every school with the possible exceptions of HYP+Caltech. So, no, not "everything."

fwiw" And to me, the only thing that truly matters is matriculants. Admitting dozens/hundreds of applicants who end up at 'furd, or Northwestern or Duke or the Ancient Eight, or even u$c with a Presidential, only boosts the admit stat, but is meaningless for the actual class, since we lose the cross-admit battle the vast majority of the time. But others may have a different pov.

Back when UC Statfinder was available, and using a little bit of numbers-crunching, the numbers for instate and OOS enrolled students were available. And that data, which was UC's actual data of actual students, did not show that OOS students had higher numbers. Quite the contrary.

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It's funny how you only talk about OOS matriculants, what about the in state ones then? For this topic, we are discussing students Admissions. There may be a variety of reasons for kids to accept or reject a school (student choice), it's not even relevant to what everyone is discussing here since we are only talking about admission policy (school choice).

Big Dog;842487646 said:

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And to me, the only thing that truly matters is matriculants.

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I don't get your fixation on the students that matriculate. The rest of the world cares about the admitted student profile.

I could not care less about the statistics of the matriculants vs. that of the overall cohort of admits. When applying to a school, you want to know what it takes to get in.

While the Duke name may carry weight in the Southeast, it means nothing to the majority of Californians beyond its reputation for basketball and Coach K. I think that a significant part of the problem with Cal alum is that we sometimes fall prey to rags like USNWR for how we think about our alma mater and ourselves. Just think of the ten people you know personally and admire most. For me, they are mostly UC and CSU grads (or didn't attend college at all). #tiredoftheivyhype #notfromassachusetts http://californiapublicuniversities.blogspot.com/

Gunga la Gunga;842487499 said:

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Me too. Stopped donating two years ago. It's now a 5 figure loss for the university. That number will continue to grow. Fortunately there's plenty of other non-profits worthy of my donations.

Interestingly, on a side note, the university is so clueless about its donors / alumni, I havent had any reach out to find out why I've stopped.

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Sorry to hear that you are no longer giving to Cal. I agree that Cal is very inefficient and not as professional about fund raising as the private universities. but that is true about all public universities.

I continue to give to the academic side of Cal (even more so than the FB side of Cal athletics).

I am thankful for the education I received at Cal. It has helped me more than any other factor in my background other than my parents. I started as a poor kid from a poor family and was able to afford Cal because of the low tuition. I graduated with a degree from a world class university that I am proud of.
I am a relatively successful attorney. I feel a moral obligation to give back. I do not feel that I should now receive a quid pro quo for my donations. I have already received my quid pro quo.

Cal_Fan2;842487572 said:

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Is this the info you are talking about?....sure seems OOS students have higher everything by a tad. This says "student profile" so not sure those are the stats in question.

CA Resident Out-of-State International
*Based on Office of Undergraduate Admissions freshman data as of 06/05/14.
Admits/Apps 8,307 / 43,883 3,322 / 16,629 1,356 / 13,260
Admit Rate 18.9% 20% 10.2%
Avg. GPA Apps 3.61 3.72 3.68
Avg. GPA Admit 3.89 3.92 3.89
Avg. SAT Apps 1837 2018 1992
Avg. SAT Admit 2124 2171 2124
Avg. ACT Apps 28 31 29
Avg. ACT Admit 32 33 32

http://admissions.berkeley.edu/studentprofile

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Yeah that's the one. The complaint about OOS students being less qualified is complete bunk and is essentially scapegoating another group for your own (or your child's) failure to get into Cal.

jackbauerish;842487368 said:

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Two kids from different Cal families with 4.5 and 4.3 GPAs; ACT scores in the upper 30% percentile of admitted students; extracurriculars the length of War and Peace and all of their parents graduated from Cal are denied admission, however admitted to Usc, Ucla, Claremont, Duke and Vanderbilt. ANd they want money from alums???If they had just checked the unverifiable box their parents didn't attend college and not tell the truth!:headbang
Pretty shi**y when Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi and other politicians get all their friends and family tagged!

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If they appeal make sure to say that they would be willing to accept admission to the Spring semester. It might increase the chances of having the appeal accepted.

jebus;842487641 said:

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Let's tell all the asian kids and according to you specifically Chinese kids to be less competitive so that your "seniors" can go to a UC. While you are at it, keep teaching your seniors to expect things to be handed to them.

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Actually, I don't sympathize at all with my senior students as they find excuses not to apply to the UC..most of them are lacking some of the qualities that maybe you and I feel are worthy for UC students in general (including the entitlement that you suggest). As far as Asians and any other non residential group who do enter - thanks for raising the bar - let's see what our California kids can do about it!