Cal Strong;842553287 said:

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Because he didn't stop being an ace recruiter when he left Cal. Sark and Saban both wanted him BADLY. It's not like he stopped beating stanfurd and ucla for recruits when he bolted from Berkeley.

He is one of the best recruiters in the world. He is also a total piece of sh*t. Both things are true.

You need to look around you and open your mind to the reality that sometimes a$$holes are really good at their jobs.

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If I was a Head coach why would I want a 'total piece of sh*t on my staff'?

Just saying'...

NVGolfingBear;842553289 said:

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If I was a Head coach why would I want a 'total piece of sh*t on my staff'?

Just saying'...

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I agree with you. That's I don't want him on the Cal staff. I'm just saying he is better at recruiting than anyone we have. Not that it matters anyway -- he isn't going to leave Bama to be a position coach at Cal.

Fortunately for Tosh, there are plenty of coaches who have no problem hiring a total POS so long as he can coach and recruit. Tedford did it (Tosh) and so did Sonny (Ingram). Neither of them knew it at the time, but they both hired immoral guys to assistant coaching positions.

Cal Strong;842553297 said:

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I agree with you. That's I don't want him on the Cal staff. I'm just saying he is better at recruiting than anyone we have. Not that it matters anyway -- he isn't going to leave Bama to be a position coach at Cal.

Fortunately for Tosh, there are plenty of coaches who have no problem hiring a total POS so long as he can coach and recruit. Tedford did it (Tosh) and so did Sonny (Ingram). Neither of them knew it at the time, but they both hired immoral guys to assistant coaching positions.

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I take exception with lumping Ingram in with To$h. He wanted to screw hookers, not his alma mater. Big difference.

Cal Strong;842553184 said:

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I hate Tosh as much as anyone. But this is nuts.

Peeler has been here for a little while and has only had the occasion to land a single 4 star guy. Tosh was here for a long time, was the national recruiter of the year, and helped us land multiple 4 and 5 star guys. Gould and Thompson were also stud recruiters. The best players on our team right now were recruited by the last staff.

I wouldn't trade Sonny's staff for the late Tedford staff by any stretch of the imagination. But let's not kid ourselves -- we are lacking recruiters big time. Sonny will need to bring in some good recruiters in the off season coaching reshuffle.

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It's all speculation on our part, but I'm guessing the number one thing -- by far -- that has held back our recruiting in the Dykes program is the lack of perception that we can win. I'm a little surprised we have done as well as we have. Seven or more wins this fall should remove that obstacle.

NYCGOBEARS;842553313 said:

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I take exception with lumping Ingram in with To$h. He wanted to screw hookers, not his alma mater. Big difference.

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Cheating on one's wife is worse than betraying one's alma mater. Ingram paid a fake hooker, Tosh got paid by a drunk coach. Ingram was worse.

Cal Strong;842553469 said:

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Cheating on one's wife is worse than betraying one's alma mater. Ingram paid a fake hooker, Tosh got paid by a drunk coach. Ingram was worse.

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What Ingram did was a matter between him and his wife, and we don't know enough about their relationship to make that judgment. The fact is that many people have affairs, but Ingram got caught. Looking at Presidents, for example, I wouldn't rank Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Clinton, et. al. as pieces of trash like Tosh.

I don't feel sorry for Lupoi. How many people under 30 get paid that amount of money?

I don't blame him for leaving, which was his right. The way he did it shows lack of any moral center. I wouldn't trust him to take care my pets, so I certainly wouldn't put the welfare of my alma mater's football team in his hands.

Cal Strong;842553469 said:

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Cheating on one's wife is worse than betraying one's alma mater. Ingram paid a fake hooker, Tosh got paid by a drunk coach. Ingram was worse.

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in his defense, he didn't know she was a fake hooker!!!

southseasbear;842553548 said:

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What Ingram did was a matter between him and his wife, and we don't know enough about their relationship to make that judgment. The fact is that many people have affairs, but Ingram got caught. Looking at Presidents, for example, I wouldn't rank Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Clinton, et. al. as pieces of trash like Tosh.

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Since what he did required Sonny to fire him, and thus left us without a WR coach after the coaching market had already reshuffled, it is not just between him and his wife.

beeasyed;842553556 said:

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in his defense, he didn't know she was a fake hooker!!!

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Excellent point.

Cal Strong;842553469 said:

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Cheating on one's wife is worse than betraying one's alma mater. Ingram paid a fake hooker, Tosh got paid by a drunk coach. Ingram was worse.

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That analogy would work if P.I. had left his wife and children for some dumb call girl with a wealthy daddy in the Pacific Northwest, proceeded under the direction of that new wife to publically trash his former wife and children every chance he had and actively seek to further damage their lives, got caught breaking the law to pad his pockets thereafter losing his second marriage, and finally got hitched to a third wealthy wife with questionable ethics in the South.

Why would wife #1 and her children ever consider welcoming him back under that scenario? That is the original issue raised by OP. Your tangents are irrelevant to that question at hand and only serve to defend Tra$h's unethical actions.

Nasal Mucus Goldenbear;842553608 said:

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That analogy would work if P.I. had left his wife and children for some dumb call girl with a wealthy daddy in the Pacific Northwest, proceeded under the direction of that new wife to publically trash his former wife and children every chance he had and actively seek to further damage their lives, got caught breaking the law to pad his pockets thereafter losing his second marriage, and finally got hitched to a third wealthy wife with questionable ethics in the South.

Why would wife #1 and her children ever consider welcoming him back under that scenario? That is the original issue raised by OP. Your tangents are irrelevant to that question at hand and only serve to defend Tra$h's unethical actions.

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Now THAT is what I call an accurate analogy.

edg64;842552772 said:

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When you refer to Tosh's dumb azzes I assume you are referring to Cameron Jordan, Tyson Aluala.
Let's not have guys like that around who lower our team's graduation rate

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Follow long enough and you would know these two are Delgado kids.

southseasbear;842553551 said:

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I don't feel sorry for Lupoi. How many people under 30 get paid that amount of money?

I don't blame him for leaving, which was his right. The way he did it shows lack of any moral center. I wouldn't trust him to take care my pets, so I certainly wouldn't put the welfare of my alma mater's football team in his hands.

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to$h would sell your pets; they'd be gone and he'd pocket the money (or stuff it into coffee cups)

Cal Strong;842553184 said:

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I hate Tosh as much as anyone. But this is nuts.

Peeler has been here for a little while and has only had the occasion to land a single 4 star guy. Tosh was here for a long time, was the national recruiter of the year, and helped us land multiple 4 and 5 star guys. Gould and Thompson were also stud recruiters. The best players on our team right now were recruited by the last staff.

I wouldn't trade Sonny's staff for the late Tedford staff by any stretch of the imagination. But let's not kid ourselves -- we are lacking recruiters big time. Sonny will need to bring in some good recruiters in the off season coaching reshuffle.

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This is Peeler's first year as a full-time coach. I don't remember Tosh landing anyone as a GA.

Nasal Mucus Goldenbear;842553608 said:

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Why would wife #1 and her children ever consider welcoming him back under that scenario? That is the original issue raised by OP. Your tangents are irrelevant to that question at hand and only serve to defend Tra$h's unethical actions.

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Wow. Reading comprehension problems?

Saying that lots of coaches hire unethical assistants is not a "tangent" in this discussion. Tedford did it. Sonny did it. Mora did it. Saban did it.

When a coach does something unethical that leaves his team in a bad position, then that is a problem. Ingram certainly falls into this category. We gave up the best RB coach in Pac-10/12 history to bring him onboard. Then we were left holding the bag when he made unethical choices, after the assistant coaching market had already reshuffled for the year. His unethical actions hurt our team. He was also a pretty good recruiter by all accounts.

Clearly there is a difference in terms of degree between what Sandusky, Tosh, Ingram, and Klemm have done. Neither Tosh nor Ingram are the worst by any stretch of the imagination. But all four of these assistant coaches have hurt their teams and universities through unethical behavior.

I am not defending Tosh's actions as ethical by any means. And I don't want him back. I've made that abundantly clear. So settle down.

I'm just saying he is a superior recruiter than anyone we have on staff. Sonny needs to go out and hire MUCH better recruiters when he inevitably reshuffles the staff at the end of the season.

Cal Strong;842553720 said:

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I am not defending Tosh's actions as ethical by any means. And I don't want him back. I've made that abundantly clear. So settle down.

I'm just saying he is a superior recruiter than anyone we have on staff. Sonny needs to go out and hire MUCH better recruiters when he inevitably reshuffles the staff at the end of the season.

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don't bother. your argument is apparently too complex to parse. i also don't understand why the need for recruiters always comes back to naming Tosh as a candidate. as if he's the only guy out there?

also, our recruiters can't get any better...look at how many underrated guys we have!

Our recruiters seem to be doing fine. Remember, we have to recruit a higher caliber of student now to a losing program (although we may have morphed into a winning one after 2015).

beeasyed;842553740 said:

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don't bother. your argument is apparently too complex to parse. i also don't understand why the need for recruiters always comes back to naming Tosh as a candidate. as if he's the only guy out there?

also, our recruiters can't get any better...look at how many underrated guys we have!

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Ha!

chazzed;842553741 said:

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Our recruiters seem to be doing fine. Remember, we have to recruit a higher caliber of student now to a losing program (although we may have morphed into a winning one after 2015).

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So does stanfurd, Vandy, Notre Dame, and Duke. We don't need to match Bama. But we need to do MUCH better within our smart-school category. All of these teams have multiple four star recruits.

Don't want Tosh. Want better recruiters not named Tosh.

Cal Strong;842553946 said:

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So does stanfurd, Vandy, Notre Dame, and Duke. We don't need to match Bama. But we need to do MUCH better within our smart-school category. All of these teams have multiple four star recruits.

Don't want Tosh. Want better recruiters not named Tosh.

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If all you care about is the star rating of the recruits, yes, we need better "recruiters"

HOWEVER,

I'm not sure that is what Cal needs. One thing that we are seeing with Coach Dykes is that we are getting more solid students and despite the lower star rating we are still seeing quite a few true freshmen getting playing time and contributing. At one time this would be a bad sign, but now even teams like Bama or Ohio State find that true freshmen can contribute if they are good enough when they are recruited.

It's so early in Dykes' tenure and the problems in 2012 and 2013 are by now extremely well documented. We can't say how good of recruiters they might become, but I'd say they have done an excellent job considering where they started 2.5 years ago. We might not have the 5 star recruits so many people covet, but we are getting recruits who can contribute and who appear to be doing well in the class room. If they have the heart that Dykes says he's looking for, this team and future teams will play far better than their recruit ranking would indicate and then the top recruits will start coming.

mvargus;842553963 said:

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If all you care about is the star rating of the recruits, yes, we need better "recruiters"

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Everyone cares about star ratings. That's why people got excited when we landed Jordan Duncan.

It is no longer early in Dykes' tenure. We only have two young coaches on our team. The rest of the guys have been in football forever -- they don't need more time to develop as recruiters.

Again, I don't want Tosh. I want guys not named Tosh who can recruit elite athletes who are also good students to come to Cal.

Cal Strong;842553971 said:

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Everyone cares about star ratings. That's why people got excited when we landed Jordan Duncan.

It is no longer early in Dykes' tenure. We only have two young coaches on our team. The rest of the guys have been in football forever -- they don't need more time to develop as recruiters.

Again, I don't want Tosh. I want guys not named Tosh who can recruit elite athletes who are also good students to come to Cal.

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Maybe we already have them. We are two years removed from a 1-11 season, during which UCLA, Arizona and Arizona State became strong again. Let us get back to respectability first, and then we will see if our coaches can recruit mostly 4 and 5 stars. Our new academic standards will make the pool of recruits smaller and we will need to give the team a bigger budget to recruit nationally, but I think we can follow the Stanford model of targeting the 4 and 5 stars who do actually care about academics (and not just give it lip service). I just think it is a bit too early in our recovery stage to judge our recruiters.

mvargus;842553963 said:

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If all you care about is the star rating of the recruits, yes, we need better "recruiters"

HOWEVER,

I'm not sure that is what Cal needs. One thing that we are seeing with Coach Dykes is that we are getting more solid students and despite the lower star rating we are still seeing quite a few true freshmen getting playing time and contributing. At one time this would be a bad sign, but now even teams like Bama or Ohio State find that true freshmen can contribute if they are good enough when they are recruited.

It's so early in Dykes' tenure and the problems in 2012 and 2013 are by now extremely well documented. We can't say how good of recruiters they might become, but I'd say they have done an excellent job considering where they started 2.5 years ago. We might not have the 5 star recruits so many people covet, but we are getting recruits who can contribute and who appear to be doing well in the class room. If they have the heart that Dykes says he's looking for, this team and future teams will play far better than their recruit ranking would indicate and then the top recruits will start coming.

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why can't we have good recruiters who can recruit good character players that are also highly sought after? we're Cal, we don't have to settle for one or the other. we had lots of frosh play because our depth was trash as so many people explained after going 1-11. so much available PT was also a big part of our recruiting pitch. NOT coincidentally, many of our important frosh contributors also happened to have good offers/rankings. Borrayo (ASU, UW), Uluave (UCLA), and Hawkins (4*) for example.

4* Jordan Duncan is one example of guys we need--smart AND gifted with Bama and big time offers. that's a great start, but we need that at all positions. Uluave and Ude were 2 other examples of highly demanded kids.

cb93, we don't ever "need" "mostly 4* or 5* kids." we need some kids who can push early playing time as frosh with good grades. guys we barely lost to LA like Wadood and Adams both played as frosh, even behind a much more skilled roster.

if we want to be competitive in the conference, academics can't be the only requirement--we can't just settle for good but not great athletes. if we only care about graduating okay players then we can do it at a lower competition level.

calbear93;842554008 said:

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Maybe we already have them. We are two years removed from a 1-11 season, during which UCLA, Arizona and Arizona State became strong again. Let us get back to respectability first, and then we will see if our coaches can recruit mostly 4 and 5 stars. Our new academic standards will make the pool of recruits smaller and we will need to give the team a bigger budget to recruit nationally, but I think we can follow the Stanford model of targeting the 4 and 5 stars who do actually care about academics (and not just give it lip service). I just think it is a bit too early in our recovery stage to judge our recruiters.

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With just two exceptions (Peeler and Jones), each of our other coaches have been in the recruiting business for decades. It is not too early to judge our recruiters.

We need better recruiters. No question. When Sonny inevitably reshuffles his staff at the end of the season, he will need to do much better than he has so far at hiring guys who can bring more elite athletes who are also good students to Cal.

Point blank tosh was named national recruiter of the year for a reason. As well as pac 12 recruiter of the year 2 years straight. If we win 8 or 9 games this year it will be a lot easier to recruit elite players and be in the mix for 5 star guys. However there's nobody that can recruit like tosh on our staff. Not even close.