Tosh Revisited

13,998 Views | 129 Replies | Last: 10 yr ago by tim94501
OdontoBear66
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4thGenCal;842552933 said:

Unlike most of the posts - I can be objective about Tosh, I knew him and the HC. Tosh did a lot of positive things while at Cal, he gave his heart and competed admirably for the team, he worked tirelessly up thru the ranks of grad assistant, then position coach etc and recruited amazingly well and legally, i emphasize while at Cal. To be able to bring in the quality of players with the facility/tradition/academic obstacles was simply incredible. He continually turned away overtures of far greater salary offers. Tosh was at $90k/year until he was finally bumped up to $135k/yr - yet comparable assistants within the league were at $200k+ and with a lower standard of living expenses. His loyalty was unquestioned. Regarding the 22 recruits that went on "academic probation" the staff used a team approach recruiting unless there was a clear cut relationship in place. Many of Tosh's primary recruits were satisfactory students as I did inquire as to his specific recruiting "wins' during his tenure of recruiting.
People forget that he was wrongly sacrificed for "injury gate" since the orders came directly from the DC not Tosh. Yet Tosh was forced to take the fall and suspension - watching the game from Tightwad Hill. I would say, if one walked in one's shoes, then its fair game to crudely rip on that person. Sark came after Tosh extremely hard and eventually with the help of his key staff in a face to face meeting, offered him in excess of $300k plus perks for his then girl friend school admittance,and Dad regarding a job opportunity. Tedford and Tosh were both very proud men and both made horrible mistakes leading up to the decision by Tosh to leave. Tosh wanted to stay and be promoted and paid fairly for his performance, but after being ignored on fair pay raises, being made the sacrificial lamb on injury gate - pride got the best of him. and yes he broke his verbal word that the latest offer of $225k from Cal was acceptable. Regarding how he handled the situation with Shaq, also completely wrong - however Shaq trusted him and made up his own mind to follow him to Washington - why? because a very close bond had been developed for the past 3 years. It was the downfall of Tedford as seven key 4 and 5 star verbal commitments reneged when Tosh left. Tosh has said repeatedly that he was wrong in how he pursued Shaq and wished in retrospect, he had not contacted Shaq while technically still under contract to Cal. He also felt that he owed it to the family and Shaq to meet them in person and be straight on his decision to leave Cal.
I am leaving out other pertinent information and while I generally am a supporter of Tosh, I am in no way giving him a pass on the manner in which he left. However for people to make in some cases uniformed opinions without ever talking directly to both him and Coach Tedford, is not allowing themselves to make objective assessments.
While everyone has rightly moved on - it was a direct blow to the program that we have not yet fully recovered from - though we all hope that this season proves that wrong.
Totally understand I am continuing a subject most want buried and will be "gutted" as well, for my positive comments about Tosh. Regardless I am an extremely loyal backer of the Cal program and want just the best in performance on the field and basketball courts ,along with acceptable academic performance as well. But I would fall in the court of results candidly, over superior academic performance.


I don't want to get into a detailed argument about Tosh +/- but with his Cal education he did not use it very well to make some decisions early on in his career. He was unable to see the big picture how it works in an organization, and how what he was doing effected more than just Tosh. Yes, you are humanizing Tosh, but for the most part making excuses for why he did what he did. We know most of that and most still feel as we do about Tosh.

UDub was in trouble. Cal was inching in on its ability to be a factor down the road. Sark had to destroy Cal's ability to grow while enhancing UDub's. Tosh was the pawn. He was not intelligent enough to see that and combined the "poor me" with the "big money offered" to come to a decision. In doing so he forever put himself in a bad position ethically. His choice, his bed. For those activities his water will be poisoned at Cal. There was a big picture that he entirely missed. If he had taken the "blow" for the DC and accepted the raise to $225, he would certainly be in a better position with Cal fans; albeit maybe not economically. That we will never know. But what we do know is that he acted like a traitor to us, whatever the excuses.
mvargus
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edg64;842552649 said:

Why are the many, young, talented coaches out there with similar skills, still out there?
Did someone say this year's defense has improved? After 3 games(2 against cupcakes!) how do we rank in the PAC-12.




Well According to cfbstats, here is where the defense ranks in the Pac-12 in the various categories.

Scoring Defense - T7 (21.7) UW is #1 at 11.0, Oregon is #12 at 33.7
Rushing Defense - 11 (188.33 YPG), UW is #1 at 93.00 YPG, ASU is #12 at 215.33 YPG
Passing Defense (YPG) - 7 (235.7 YPG), ASU is #1 at 134.7 YPG, Oregon is #12 at 316 YPG
Passing Defense (comp %) - 1 (48.4%), WSU is #12 at 71.4%
Total Defense (YPG) - 11 (424.0 YPG), UW is #1 at 267.7, Oregon is #12 at 456.3
Opponent First Downs - 4 (18.3 per game), OSU is #1 at 14.3, Oregon is #12 at 24.7
Sacks - T2 (7), WSU is #1 with 9 sacks, UW is #12 with 1 sack
TFL - T4 (19). ASU is #1 with 26, Utah is #12 with 13
Int - 1 (7), Stanford is #12 with 1
Opponent 3rd down - T5 (37.5%), OSU is #1 at 17.95%, WSU is #12 at 47.37%
Opponent 4th down - 2 (25%), USC is #1 at 16.67%, Oregon is #12 at 71.43%

Not great, but Cal leads the conference in 2 stats and is in the top 3rd on several more. The yardage allowed is frustrating, but the team is definitely headed in the right direction. Heck we have more Ints so far this year than we managed in all of 2014.
UCBerkGrad
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4thGenCal;842552933 said:

Unlike most of the posts - I can be objective about Tosh, I knew him and the HC.


It sounds like you are anything but objective.
beeasyed
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UCBerkGrad;842552980 said:

It sounds like you are anything but objective.


and the reality is most of us know nothing about what really happened leading up to tosh bailing.

I'm sure there's another side to it, and I can accept what 4thGenCal is saying without having it affect my belief that he should not come back.
OdontoBear66
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beeasyed;842552981 said:

and the reality is most of us know nothing about what really happened leading up to tosh bailing.

I'm sure there's another side to it, and I can accept what 4thGenCal is saying without having it affect my belief that he should not come back.


Yup, Tosh did what was best for Tosh in the short term and it burnt him. But, I am sure he goes on enjoying his career. Cheers to him, but not back at Cal. Bridge burnt.
Cal88
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beeasyed;842552981 said:

and the reality is most of us know nothing about what really happened leading up to tosh bailing.

I'm sure there's another side to it, and I can accept what 4thGenCal is saying without having it affect my belief that he should not come back.


There is no other side, just a subjective interpretation of the facts, most of which are known: raise and salary offered, Shaq's recruitment, negative recruitment against Cal, and so forth. Basically, Sark offered Lupoi 30% more at the end, to steal some of our recruits and damage the program of his alma mater. Then there is also the cash in the cup incident, had he pulled that stunt at Cal he would have been banished for life for that alone.
PTBear
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4thGenCal;842552933 said:

Unlike most of the posts - I can be objective about Tosh, I knew him and the HC. Tosh did a lot of positive things while at Cal, he gave his heart and competed admirably for the team, he worked tirelessly up thru the ranks of grad assistant, then position coach etc and recruited amazingly well and legally, i emphasize while at Cal. To be able to bring in the quality of players with the facility/tradition/academic obstacles was simply incredible. He continually turned away overtures of far greater salary offers. Tosh was at $90k/year until he was finally bumped up to $135k/yr - yet comparable assistants within the league were at $200k+ and with a lower standard of living expenses. His loyalty was unquestioned. Regarding the 22 recruits that went on "academic probation" the staff used a team approach recruiting unless there was a clear cut relationship in place. Many of Tosh's primary recruits were satisfactory students as I did inquire as to his specific recruiting "wins' during his tenure of recruiting.
People forget that he was wrongly sacrificed for "injury gate" since the orders came directly from the DC not Tosh. Yet Tosh was forced to take the fall and suspension - watching the game from Tightwad Hill. I would say, if one walked in one's shoes, then its fair game to crudely rip on that person. Sark came after Tosh extremely hard and eventually with the help of his key staff in a face to face meeting, offered him in excess of $300k plus perks for his then girl friend school admittance,and Dad regarding a job opportunity. Tedford and Tosh were both very proud men and both made horrible mistakes leading up to the decision by Tosh to leave. Tosh wanted to stay and be promoted and paid fairly for his performance, but after being ignored on fair pay raises, being made the sacrificial lamb on injury gate - pride got the best of him. and yes he broke his verbal word that the latest offer of $225k from Cal was acceptable. Regarding how he handled the situation with Shaq, also completely wrong - however Shaq trusted him and made up his own mind to follow him to Washington - why? because a very close bond had been developed for the past 3 years. It was the downfall of Tedford as seven key 4 and 5 star verbal commitments reneged when Tosh left. Tosh has said repeatedly that he was wrong in how he pursued Shaq and wished in retrospect, he had not contacted Shaq while technically still under contract to Cal. He also felt that he owed it to the family and Shaq to meet them in person and be straight on his decision to leave Cal.
I am leaving out other pertinent information and while I generally am a supporter of Tosh, I am in no way giving him a pass on the manner in which he left. However for people to make in some cases uniformed opinions without ever talking directly to both him and Coach Tedford, is not allowing themselves to make objective assessments.
While everyone has rightly moved on - it was a direct blow to the program that we have not yet fully recovered from - though we all hope that this season proves that wrong.
Totally understand I am continuing a subject most want buried and will be "gutted" as well, for my positive comments about Tosh. Regardless I am an extremely loyal backer of the Cal program and want just the best in performance on the field and basketball courts ,along with acceptable academic performance as well. But I would fall in the court of results candidly, over superior academic performance.


Unfortunately, I do agree with you in that Tosh wasn't being treated fairly at the time, especially when he was made a scapegoat for the fake injury thing. The poor results of the recruits we brought in at the time was a group effort, and while I do agree that both Tedford and Tosh had fault, it's like you said, the way Tosh left is still unforgiveable. In the end, he went back on his word, and he lied to people. He may have truly bled blue and gold, but in the end he showed his true colors
beeasyed
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Cal88;842553012 said:

There is no other side, just a subjective interpretation of the facts, most of which are known: raise and salary offered, Shaq's recruitment, negative recruitment against Cal, and so forth. Basically, Sark offered Lupoi 30% more at the end, to steal some of our recruits and damage the program of his alma mater. Then there is also the cash in the cup incident, had he pulled that stunt at Cal he would have been banished for life for that alone.


the other side is how Tedford, Barbour, and Cal treated paid assistants like ****, and how the circumstances lead to Tosh--who by all accounts loved his alma mater, and had the respect of numerous players, and teammates--doing what he did. we can talk all day about how he left like a douchebag, which i absolutely agree with, but i'm not going to pretend, in retrospect, that everything was so rosy and great at Cal, and Tosh decided one day to wake up and defect to UW.

Tosh gets all the blame for all the "bad fits", but he never had the authority to offer scholarships on his own. the f*ck was our recruiting coordinator Kenwick thinking? Tedford? why wasn't there more leadership? there's a bunch of things left conveniently unsaid at the time, bc it was easier to put all the blame on Tosh to save the HC and the program. now that JT and Barbour are no longer here, i don't see why everyone shouldn't get some blame. hell, i'm sure some of those pumpers would love a go at JT.

and what he did after Cal under Sark's orders is completely irrelevant. at least in the discussion of how it relates to Cal. but i still reserve the right to use him as my avatar.
oski003
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They treated assistants like sh** and paid them like sh**?

I must be willfully blind. I acknowledge hearing that they were underpaid. How were they treated like sh**?

If somebody working for me asked for a raise, I denied it, and then they left and unethical back stabbed me ... with a competitor, it wouldn't matter how loyal they were prior to this all happening. If I paid that assistant less than market value, that still wouldn't justify the betrayal.
beeasyed
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oski003;842553032 said:

They treated assistants like sh** and paid them like sh**?

I must be willfully blind. I acknowledge hearing that they were underpaid. How were they treated like sh**?

If somebody working for me asked for a raise, I denied it, and then they left and unethical back stabbed me ... with a competitor, it wouldn't matter how loyal they were prior to this all happening. If I paid that assistant less than market value, that still wouldn't justify the betrayal.


so throwing Tosh under the bus for the injury thing when it wasn't even his idea doesn't count as treating them like ****? or how about JT refusing to acknowledge Tosh's recruiting abilities, and taking most of the credit? not increasing his pay, and also giving recruiting coordinator title to Kenwick? blaming Tosh for the all of the bad apples that ended up at Cal? blaming him for players not going to school when JT relaxed the rules?

i've always said the way Tosh left was a piece of **** move, but the conversation almost never addresses what 4thGenCal brought up. i'm not justifying anything; i think it's willfully myopic and typiCal to hone in on one piece of the puzzle.

Cal is penny wise, pound foolish in most everything they do. putting all of this on Tosh at the time took blame off of JT and the administration. if Tosh hadn't left, we still may have had that JT regime for another couple of years.
sycasey
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PTBear;842553023 said:

Unfortunately, I do agree with you in that Tosh wasn't being treated fairly at the time, especially when he was made a scapegoat for the fake injury thing. The poor results of the recruits we brought in at the time was a group effort, and while I do agree that both Tedford and Tosh had fault, it's like you said, the way Tosh left is still unforgiveable. In the end, he went back on his word, and he lied to people. He may have truly bled blue and gold, but in the end he showed his true colors


This. There is a way to leave for a new job somewhere else and still be ethical about it. It isn't to leave your old team in the lurch, the same people who had given you the original opportunities that allowed you to get that higher-paying job in the first place.

If Tosh had simply left for higher pay, while being up-front about it with everyone and also being clear with recruits, then people here wouldn't hate him so much.
calumnus
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sycasey;842553035 said:

This. There is a way to leave for a new job somewhere else and still be ethical about it. It isn't to leave your old team in the lurch, the same people who had given you the original opportunities that allowed you to get that higher-paying job in the first place.

If Tosh had simply left for higher pay, while being up-front about it with everyone and also being clear with recruits, then people here wouldn't hate him so much.


Exactly. Plus even IF Tosh was upset with JT over "low" pay and injury-gate, the damage he intentionally inflicted was on the program and his alma mater--damage that we have not recovered from yet. As fans we have no reason to forget or forgive that.
Zerk
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sycasey;842553035 said:



If Tosh had simply left for higher pay, while being up-front about it with everyone and also being clear with recruits, then people here wouldn't hate him so much.


The part I don't understand is why he is not hated by any of the former players or coaches. They don't care as much as us fans? (tongue definitely in cheek)

Do they know more? Are they just being "polite"?
BeachyBear
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It saddens me people are comparing those two coaches. On more than one level.
sycasey
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Zerk;842553077 said:

The part I don't understand is why he is not hated by any of the former players or coaches. They don't care as much as us fans? (tongue definitely in cheek)

Do they know more? Are they just being "polite"?


They can all move on from the program. Fans can't.
NYCGOBEARS
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I'd rather take Pierre Ingram back.
Cal Strong
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Tosh is [U]Guilty[/U] For:
  • The way he left
  • Recruiting Shaq for UW while on Cal's payroll
  • Being an a$$hole


Tosh is [U]Not Guilty[/U] For:
  • Recruiting Bad Students and Bad Character Guys (This falls on Tedford and Thompson).
  • He recruited a lot of really good students and good citizens who ended up at other schools when he left -- Shaq, Armstead, McCarthy, Payton, Shittu, etc..
  • Wanting to make as much money as he can.
oski003
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beeasyed;842553033 said:

so throwing Tosh under the bus for the injury thing when it wasn't even his idea doesn't count as treating them like ****? or how about JT refusing to acknowledge Tosh's recruiting abilities, and taking most of the credit? not increasing his pay, and also giving recruiting coordinator title to Kenwick? blaming Tosh for the all of the bad apples that ended up at Cal? blaming him for players not going to school when JT relaxed the rules?

i've always said the way Tosh left was a piece of **** move, but the conversation almost never addresses what 4thGenCal brought up. i'm not justifying anything; i think it's willfully myopic and typiCal to hone in on one piece of the puzzle.

Cal is penny wise, pound foolish in most everything they do. putting all of this on Tosh at the time took blame off of JT and the administration. if Tosh hadn't left, we still may have had that JT regime for another couple of years.


1) Blaming the DL coach for a DL player's fake injury acting can be considered a piece of sh** move. It doesn't reflect highly on the head coach, D coordinator, or the position coach.
2) I don't remember Tedford refusing to acknowledge Tosh's recruiting abilities.
3) I don't remember Tedford taking an inordinate amount of recruiting credit.
4) I don't view naming Kenwick recruiting coordinator an example of treating assistants like sh**.

The only thing that comes close to treating an assistant like sh** is injury-gate.

I do not feel that "Cal treated paid assistants like ****"
beeasyed
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oski003;842553091 said:

1) Blaming the DL coach for a DL player's fake injury acting can be considered a piece of sh** move. It doesn't reflect highly on the head coach, D coordinator, or the position coach.
2) I don't remember Tedford refusing to acknowledge Tosh's recruiting abilities.
3) I don't remember Tedford taking an inordinate amount of recruiting credit.
4) I don't view naming Kenwick recruiting coordinator an example of treating assistants like sh**.

The only thing that comes close to treating an assistant like sh** is injury-gate.

I do not feel that "Cal treated paid assistants like ****"


those were also mentioned in the same timeframe by some connected posters. Tosh felt like he wasn't being recognized for landing the big fish, and not getting the recruiting coordinator spot, in name or in commensurate salary.

that was a bad edit. that was a remark on the poor pay for assistants at Cal.
oski003
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beeasyed;842553099 said:

those were also mentioned in the same timeframe by some connected posters. Tosh felt like he wasn't being recognized for landing the big fish, and not getting the recruiting coordinator spot, in name or in commensurate salary.

that was a bad edit. that was a remark on the poor pay for assistants at Cal.


Then move on. Don't burn the bridge on the way out.
ColoradoBear
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4thGenCal;842552933 said:

Tosh was at $90k/year until he was finally bumped up to $135k/yr - yet comparable assistants within the league were at $200k+ and with a lower standard of living expenses.


The UC salary data base has Tosh @ around $130k for 2008, 2009, $160k 2010, and $212k for 2012. That's money paid to him by the university, not from external things like camps (which I know is peanuts anyways).

I appreciate the rest of your post, and Cal had some serious financial constraints then and still does (though I think they have loosened a lot with the TV money).

Two counterpoints - I still believe that the money was secondary to the poor relationship between Tedford and Tosh. But in burning Tedford, he burnt Cal. I can't see how ponying up more for Tosh would have saved the program from the thud we all saw. Tedford and Sandy clearly didn't see a solution to the APR problem until it was almost too late.

Secondly, without seeing the academic records of each student, I can't comment on how good or poor of students they were. In aggregate, we had a big problem. I feel that if Tosh came back (or we hired another top recruiter), he would likely not be able to go for nearly as many 5* recruits. So the bump from a top recruiter would not be getting 5* instead of 4*, but getting 4* instead of 3*. I also think it's poor collective self esteem to think that Tosh is the only one who can help us recruit now. He might help, but there are others without the baggage.

The one thing I always chuckled about was the stories of Tosh pushing the limits and recruiting over Xbox live or whatever by playing games with recruites. No idea how true they were... but my thought was anyone who plays xbox that much is not going to do well at Cal... if that continues on top of 40+ hours of football.

I will throw this out there, if Tosh (or anyone) embraces the opportunity/constraints of Cal recruiting (UC 80% 3.0 GPA rule looms large), could they succeed without getting the national accolades like recruiter of the year? Success meaning getting winners in the classroom and on the field... but maybe not being able to stroke one's ego on signing day with a top 10 class according to stars.
Dbearson
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Tosh was 100% fools gold.

His players did nothing for us on the football field
His players also tanked our APR
He was officially reprimanded for ordering players to fake injuries
He completely burned his bridges on the way out

The STARS were 100% fools gold man. F O O L S gold. If you want him back then at least know what you are
Cal Strong
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Dbearson;842553111 said:

Tosh was 100% fools gold.

His players did nothing for us on the football field
His players also tanked our APR
He was officially reprimanded for ordering players to fake injuries
He completely burned his bridges on the way out

The STARS were 100% fools gold man. F O O L S gold. If you want him back then at least know what you are


But the players who left immediately after he bolted for UW were by in large good students and good character guys at their new universities. The guys who stayed, with a bunch of exceptions, weren't.
beeasyed
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Cal Strong;842553114 said:

But the players who left immediately after he bolted for UW were by in large good students and good character guys at their new universities. The guys who stayed, with a bunch of exceptions, weren't.


leadership issue from JT and Sandy. I find it ridiculously hard to believe Sandy had no idea how bad the academics/APR was under JT yet made no directives (or had no effect) to correct them. or maybe by then it was too late, when Tosh bailed.
SonOfCalVa
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ColoradoBear1;842553108 said:

The UC salary data base has Tosh @ around $130k for 2008, 2009, $160k 2010, and $212k for 2012. That's money paid to him by the university, not from external things like camps (which I know is peanuts anyways).

I appreciate the rest of your post, and Cal had some serious financial constraints then and still does (though I think they have loosened a lot with the TV money).

Two counterpoints - I still believe that the money was secondary to the poor relationship between Tedford and Tosh. But in burning Tedford, he burnt Cal. I can't see how ponying up more for Tosh would have saved the program from the thud we all saw. Tedford and Sandy clearly didn't see a solution to the APR problem until it was almost too late.

Secondly, without seeing the academic records of each student, I can't comment on how good or poor of students they were. In aggregate, we had a big problem. I feel that if Tosh came back (or we hired another top recruiter), he would likely not be able to go for nearly as many 5* recruits. So the bump from a top recruiter would not be getting 5* instead of 4*, but getting 4* instead of 3*. I also think it's poor collective self esteem to think that Tosh is the only one who can help us recruit now. He might help, but there are others without the baggage.

The one thing I always chuckled about was the stories of Tosh pushing the limits and recruiting over Xbox live or whatever by playing games with recruites. No idea how true they were... but my thought was anyone who plays xbox that much is not going to do well at Cal... if that continues on top of 40+ hours of football.

I will throw this out there, if Tosh (or anyone) embraces the opportunity/constraints of Cal recruiting (UC 80% 3.0 GPA rule looms large), could they succeed without getting the national accolades like recruiter of the year? Success meaning getting winners in the classroom and on the field... but maybe not being able to stroke one's ego on signing day with a top 10 class according to stars.


[SIZE=4][COLOR="#000080"]Peeler [/COLOR]>[/SIZE] [SIZE=1]to$h[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Cal's current recruiters >[/SIZE] [SIZE=1]previous recruiters[/SIZE]
Cal Strong
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SonOfCalVa;842553173 said:

[SIZE=4][COLOR="#000080"]Peeler [/COLOR]>[/SIZE] [SIZE=1]to$h[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Cal's current recruiters >[/SIZE] [SIZE=1]previous recruiters[/SIZE]


I hate Tosh as much as anyone. But this is nuts.

Peeler has been here for a little while and has only had the occasion to land a single 4 star guy. Tosh was here for a long time, was the national recruiter of the year, and helped us land multiple 4 and 5 star guys. Gould and Thompson were also stud recruiters. The best players on our team right now were recruited by the last staff.

I wouldn't trade Sonny's staff for the late Tedford staff by any stretch of the imagination. But let's not kid ourselves -- we are lacking recruiters big time. Sonny will need to bring in some good recruiters in the off season coaching reshuffle.
KoreAmBear
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Cal Strong;842553184 said:

I hate Tosh as much as anyone. But this is nuts.

Peeler has been here for a little while and has only had the occasion to land a single 4 star guy. Tosh was the recruiter of the year and helped us land multiple 4 and 5 star guys. Gould and Thompson were also a stud recruiter. The best players on our team right now were recruited by the last staff.

I wouldn't trade Sonny's staff for the late Tedford staff by any stretch of the imagination. But let's not kid ourselves -- we are lacking recruiters big time. Sonny will need to bring in some good recruiters in the off season coaching reshuffle.


Tosh wasn't under the current academic restraints. He would probably play fast and loose with it in any case.
Dark Reverie
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Trust me, you don't want to get hung up on Tosh Lupoi.

People in Tennessee are still on suicide watch because of the evils perpetrated on the Volunteer program by Lane Kiffin and the supposed evils perpetrated by Derek Dooley. I've seen it firsthand. Trust me, let it go. Please, let it go. You will drive yourselves insane.
Cal Strong
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KoreAmBear;842553190 said:

Tosh wasn't under the current academic restraints. He would probably play fast and loose with it in any case.


I agree with the first part. But that falls on Tedford, Thompson and Sandy, not on Tosh.

Chris Petersen recruits high character guys. And he wanted to hire Tosh before the coffee thing came out. Sonny also apparently discussed the possibility of hiring him.

Despite being a major piece of sh*t, Tosh can make any recruiting staff better. We wouldn't be losing high academic guys to UCLA and stanfurd if he was here.

None of this should not be interpreted to mean that I would want Sonny to hire Tosh. I'm just saying he is a way better recruiter than anyone we have on this staff.
sycasey
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Cal Strong;842553197 said:

I agree with the first part. But that falls on Tedford, Thompson and Sandy, not on Tosh.

Chris Petersen recruits high character guys. And he wanted to hire Tosh before the coffee thing came out. Sonny also apparently discussed the possibility of hiring him.

Despite being a major piece of sh*t, Tosh can make any recruiting staff better. We wouldn't be losing high academic guys to UCLA and stanfurd if he was here.

None of this should not be interpreted to mean that I would want Sonny to hire Tosh. I'm just saying he is a way better recruiter than anyone we have on this staff.


Yes. People are starting to retroactively judge Tosh as having always been a bad coach or recruiter, but that wasn't true. He was a good coach and recruiter. When we didn't know about his "ethics problem" that was obvious.

I still wouldn't hire him, because the way he went out suggests that he will likely do something unethical like that again, and he's not THAT much better than other candidates that he's worth the risk. But when it came to just coaching and recruiting players he had the goods.
Phantomfan
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Shocky1;842552618 said:

this is not gonna happen

cal has already been down the road with 2.5 gpa dumb azzs that are academically ineligible & eventually flunk out, that may work at alabama but it won't work in berkeley

the fact that you don't understand this by now is a real mystery

It worked when we were winning.

It worked well into the downward trend.

It only stopped working when the wheels fell off and we started needing to pile ALL the garbage on the Tedford wagon.

All the while the excuses around here was Tedford was doing it right, but "Cal is hard" and "no one helps you at Cal" and other such idiocy (considering Dykes seems to have found a way around Cal's crazy impossible academics compared to Tedford, and even Tedford seems to do just fine compared to Tedford).

If we start winning again, it will work again. Cal is not some magical place where Academic issues wont happen in conjunction with massive revenue involved.
calumnus
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sycasey;842553207 said:

Yes. People are starting to retroactively judge Tosh as having always been a bad coach or recruiter, but that wasn't true. He was a good coach and recruiter. When we didn't know about his "ethics problem" that was obvious.

I still wouldn't hire him, because the way he went out suggests that he will likely do something unethical like that again, and he's not THAT much better than other candidates that he's worth the risk. But when it came to just coaching and recruiting players he had the goods.


I still think a big part of his recruiting ability was his youth--he was in his 20s and on Twitter, Xbox, etc before others knew what it was. He also could sell Cal because he was a Cal guy. I think he has lost his Cal cred and his youth is diminishing every year. Rather than rehabilitate him, I'd rather we give some other young Cal alum with persuasive skills and media savvy a chance.
Nasal Mucus Goldenbear
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sycasey;842553207 said:

I still wouldn't hire him, because the way he went out suggests that he will likely do something unethical like that [SIZE=4]again[/SIZE]...

I don't understand why some people fail to grasp that. He will surely continue following in the future the patterns of completely self-serving disloyalty (@Cal) and cheating (@UW) he's showed in the recent past.
calgldnbear
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Cal Strong;842553197 said:

Despite being a major piece of sh*t, Tosh can make any recruiting staff better. We wouldn't be losing high academic guys to UCLA and stanfurd if he was here.

None of this should not be interpreted to mean that I would want Sonny to hire Tosh. I'm just saying he is a way better recruiter than anyone we have on this staff.


How do you know this to be true?? There is no guarantees ever on anything in the future so tell me ... how do you know for sure we wouldn't be losing big recruits to other schools IF he was here.

He showed he could recruit but times are a changing and it isn't the same athletic and academic landscape as before.

Also, if you truly hate and despise him, you could have fooled me because you keep coming back and defending him and his credentials
Cal Strong
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calgldnbear;842553271 said:

How do you know this to be true?? There is no guarantees ever on anything in the future so tell me ... how do you know for sure we wouldn't be losing big recruits to other schools IF he was here.

He showed he could recruit but times are a changing and it isn't the same athletic and academic landscape as before.

Also, if you truly hate and despise him, you could have fooled me because you keep coming back and defending him and his credentials


Because he didn't stop being an ace recruiter when he left Cal. Sark and Saban both wanted him BADLY. It's not like he stopped beating stanfurd and ucla for recruits when he bolted from Berkeley.

He is one of the best recruiters in the world. He is also a total piece of sh*t. Both things are true.

You need to look around you and open your mind to the reality that sometimes a$$holes are really good at their jobs.
 
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