wifeisafurd;842618431 said:

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didn't cal have a basketball grad student from Cornell who actually played a fair amount. He was a legit student and you didn't hear the Cornell people crying.

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Maybe you just weren't listening: My Cornell friends were LIVID! They felt like Cornell developed him to the point where he maybe had a shot to be All-Ivy, then he jumps ship to come out here and we reap all the rewards. One of 'em even thought he could have possibly led then to a ten-win season last year.

(Yes, that's a joke. I HAVE known some Cornell people, but I've never known them to talk about Cornell sports. BTW, isn't that where Sweeney went? Did he end up playing there?)

59bear;842618068 said:

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"...usually football considerations that guide these choices..." This is why I dislike this rule. If there were a way to restrict these cases to serious academic pursuit, I'd feel better about it. As it is, I'd like to see eligibility end with graduation (the real reason theses guys are in school, right?) although I realize a few true scholar athletes would miss out on a subsidized year of post-grad work.

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- this is ridiculous. why does it matter that football considerations guide these choices? why is it a bad thing if it encourages players to graduate? they put in 4 years, so they get this as a perk. awesome, job well-done. they are not slaves tied to a school. stop hating with this rot about "serious academic pursuits."

They've graduated. Anyone who wants to work on an advanced degree as part of his or her education goal, fine. The ones I object to are the ones who are doing it for the sole purpose of using up existing eligibility. As Calguru suggests, if they had to sit a year, most probably wouldn't bother. I agree that the benefits derived from athletic scholarships outweigh the negatives of the system but it also concerns me that every seat an athlete takes up in school is one not available to a non-athlete who may be more deserving. Call it the Cardale "we ain't come to study" Jones effect.

So as "good" as this may be for the student who ends up with a degree after using only 3 years of eligibility, it seems like a bad deal for the university who has invested 3-4 years in developing an athlete. Year 4/5 may be the most productive from an athletic standpoint?

If scholarships are only year-to-year deals right now, then fine, an athlete can take that last year of eligibility to accept a 1 year scholarship somewhere else, just as a school can choose not to offer it in a particular year.

However, if schools move to offering 4/5-year scholarship commitments, and a student "quits" before that scholarship period is up, maybe it's fair for a school to limit his eligibility elsewhere (despite the student earning the degree)?

Something should be done about the obviousness with which some schools are exploiting grad transfers just to acquire "ringers" (e.g. Oregon). Schools whose grad transfers don't matriculate should absolutely take an APR hit, or have limits put upon them with respect the the number of these types of players they can have.

bluehenbear;842618529 said:

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So as "good" as this may be for the student who ends up with a degree after using only 3 years of eligibility, it seems like a bad deal for the university who has invested 3-4 years in developing an athlete. Year 4/5 may be the most productive from an athletic standpoint?

If scholarships are only year-to-year deals right now, then fine, an athlete can take that last year of eligibility to accept a 1 year scholarship somewhere else, just as a school can choose not to offer it in a particular year.

However, if schools move to offering 4/5-year scholarship commitments, and a student "quits" before that scholarship period is up, maybe it's fair for a school to limit his eligibility elsewhere (despite the student earning the degree)?

Something should be done about the obviousness with which some schools are exploiting grad transfers just to acquire "ringers" (e.g. Oregon). Schools whose grad transfers don't matriculate should absolutely take an APR hit, or have limits put upon them with respect the the number of these types of players they can have.

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In addition there is a power cycle here with schools that have easier grad schools to enter will prosper with this program, while those with difficult entrance requirements will suffer. Guess where we fit?

And yes, I agree the school has "invested" 3-4 years with the student-athlete, and then loses his prime time.

OdontoBear66;842618543 said:

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In addition there is a power cycle here with schools that have easier grad schools to enter will prosper with this program, while those with difficult entrance requirements will suffer. Guess where we fit?

And yes, I agree the school has "invested" 3-4 years with the student-athlete, and then loses his prime time.

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While I agree with you with respect to the "investment" made in the SA, it is a fine line because at the same time the schools shouldn't own the rights to these kids who want to go get a graduate degree. If an SA wants to transfer for legitimate academic pursuits, I think that should be allowed/promoted. However, I think the current system is not set up in a way that is ensuring this is what is going on. One option is the APR ding for kids who don't get their masters after transfering, but I would guess this would lead to the creation of pseudo masters programs that don't leave the kids with anything of real value. The best option I've heard is the one I explained, that gives kids 2 years to get a graduate degree tuition free while still letting them play 1 year at the new school.

Honestly, I barely knew he was on the team as it was. What did he have? like 24 tackles all season? Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya, Mike! If I were him, I'd head towards FCS - that's about the only shot he has at actually PLAYING.

calguru;842618554 said:

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...If an SA wants to transfer for legitimate academic pursuits, I think that should be allowed/promoted.

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I think this is where we can turn a negative into a positive. True, because of our difficult graduate programs and admissions requirements, we will not benefit from a lot of incoming transfers - but for a certain pool of athletes it should be a huge selling point. Come, get your undergraduate degree at an institution that opens doors to graduate school - you know, in case (or when) the NFL doesn't pan out.

I know the whole "stars" thing is controversial, but isn't 3 years of 4 stars better than 4 years of 3 stars?

Go!Bears;842620051 ...I know the whole "stars" thing is controversial, but isn't 3 years of 4 stars better than 4 years of 3 stars?[/QUOTE said:

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Obviously, not necessarily.
Dozier was a 4* who played in an all-star game post HS. Maybe he'll step up this year, over the 3*
Hope he does. We need him to reach his potential, and he needs it more.

vanity;842618474 said:

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- this is ridiculous. why does it matter that football considerations guide these choices? why is it a bad thing if it encourages players to graduate? they put in 4 years, so they get this as a perk. awesome, job well-done. they are not slaves tied to a school. stop hating with this rot about "serious academic pursuits."

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Very well stated. They should all try to do this. I am serious.

calguru;842617853 said:

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I think your understanding here is backwards. 99% of the time these "grad" transfers are "football before education" moves for the players. If he is truly making this decision for academic reasons then more power to him, but I'd be willing to wager that's not the case.

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Umm... while you are most likely on target about these grad transfers being "football before education"... I think that a few of you guys are discounting the fact of how hard it is to get into a MASTERS PROGRAM at CAL!

I remember when we had an NCAA Champion in the Pole Vault by the name of Katie Morgan who won the 2008 NCAA Outdoor Championship in Des Moines. She had a "B" average and didn't even attempt to get into the Graduate School she was interested in (at Cal) because they told her it would be a waste of her time. She wound up transferring to SDSU and using her last year of eligibility there.

Congrats to Michael Barton.
I wish him all the best!

Wags;842620084 said:

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Umm... while you are most likely on target about these grad transfers being "football before education"... I think that a few of you guys are discounting the fact of how hard it is to get into a MASTERS PROGRAM at CAL!

I remember when we had an NCAA Champion in the Pole Vault by the name of Katie Morgan who won the 2008 NCAA Outdoor Championship in Des Moines. She had a "B" average and didn't even attempt to get into the Graduate School she was interested in (at Cal) because they told her it would be a waste of her time. She wound up transferring to SDSU and using her last year of eligibility there.

Congrats to Michael Barton.
I wish him all the best!

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I hear you. for those who are actually looking for a grad program, Cal is going to be out of reach a lot of the times, so no matter how much they love Cal, they may still have to go elsewhere (which is what sounds like happened here with Mike). I hope he has success and would love to see him back here as a coach down the line.

OdontoBear66;842618543 said:

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In addition there is a power cycle here with schools that have easier grad schools to enter will prosper with this program, while those with difficult entrance requirements will suffer. Guess where we fit?

And yes, I agree the school has "invested" 3-4 years with the student-athlete, and then loses his prime time.

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Generally the revenue sports programs are still coming out ahead, I wouldn't feel too bad for the schools. I do hate to see them go though.

Have a friend who both he and his wife got the BA/BS and PHDs both at Cal. Physics and PoliSci.

So it can happen, but they were pretty dedicated academics (both prof/assoc. prof now.).

bluehenbear;842618529 said:

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something should be done about the obviousness with which some schools are exploiting grad transfers just to acquire "ringers" (e.g. Oregon). Schools whose grad transfers don't matriculate should absolutely take an APR hit, or have limits put upon them with respect the the number of these types of players they can have.

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Wait, you mean its unusual for a 'student' to matriculate to a graduate program without graduating, get multiple chances to pass a math exam and already be on campus while taking the math exam again?

Stanford = no brainer