The Cal Band arrangements are for alot of wood winds this is the way it has always been. Not convinced they would like to change everything and emphasize more Brass.

Please, please, please make the Cal Bank louder. The most embarrassing, annoying and nauseating experience is to hear that same disgusting tune over and over again throughout the game from you-know-who. We absolutely need the Cal Band to drown out that group of brainless twerps and their arrogant conductor. It would be sweet revenge for the way they treat us at their venue. We need more brass desperately.

We need more Cal Band and we need it now. Give the people what they want.

I agree completely. I detest the piped-in music, particularly if they do it between plays. I virtually never complain, but I did complain about the piped-in music between plays to the Athletic Department. I have been attending Cal games since the '60s. The stadium (see another new post today on CMS--wonderful!) and the Cal Band really made a difference. I loved the Cal songs that we rarely hear now. The "gameday experience" for me has been returning to Cal and CMS, rooting for the Bears, and enjoying the victories when they come. The diminution of the Band in recent years, coupled with the commercialism and the damn night games, led to my not renewing season tickets after 27 consecutive years. I hope things improve but am not optimistic.

socaliganbear;842740359 said:

---

So why are they able to find plenty of non brass players? What is it about the challenges you listed that only brass players are hindered by?

Are non brass players wealthier, naturally smarter, and immediately sold on Cal band?

---

No, it's the same at all levels. High school bands also have a shortage of brass players, especially lower brass like trombones. Girls don't often take up brass instruments. Lotsa kids take up the saxophone because it's sort of "unisex", plus it's great for jazz. The Cal Band has a sh!it load of saxophones. Problem is, it's not a good marching band instrument.

The Cal Band instrumentation is a fairly representative cross-section of high school bands (concert + marching band). A fair number of NorCal high schools, including some of the traditionally top feeder schools into Cal, do not have big marching band programs. Marching band instrumentation calls for a higher percentage of brass than does concert band.

A good instrumentation for the Cal Band would be to trade about 30-40% of their woodwind plays for brass players, but that's just not what's out there.

The Ohio State Band (all brass) is an anomaly. They are in an area where marching bands are huge and they have a great reputation. They attract brass players from all over Ohio and beyond to play in their band.

Its like anything else- you have to recruit. That's part of what hs band day was traditionally for - to showcase Cal football and the whole game day experience to high schoolers and their families. Can't vouch for what it's like today, but 30-40 years ago hs musician friends of mine who played brass or drums routinely got recruited by the local drum and bugle corps - and by some of the bigger college marching bands (SC and big ten schools mostly.) To my knowledge the Cal band has never reached out to specific people that way- trying to fill gaps, or get people who can do specific things. .

cjbarker;842740826 said:

---

Its like anything else- you have to recruit. That's part of what hs band day was traditionally for - to showcase Cal football and the whole game day experience to high schoolers and their families. Can't vouch for what it's like today, but 30-40 years ago hs musician friends of mine who played brass or drums routinely got recruited by the local drum and bugle corps - and by some of the bigger college marching bands (SC and big ten schools mostly.) To my knowledge the Cal band has never reached out to specific people that way- trying to fill gaps, or get people who can do specific things. .

---

Those potential recruits out there you speak of, they would have to be able to a) get accepted at Cal and... b) be willing to attend a college where their music performance was only going to be an extra-curricular activity.

People need to know: The Cal Band has been well aware for 50 years+ that they could use a few dozen more quality brass players. Every single year they try. There are roadblocks.

USC and even UCLA can recruit musicians to their marching band because they can provide preferential admission month school through the band/music department.

I'm sure Cal could recruit more high school brass players to come and join the band if it meant the high schoolers had a better chance of getting into Cal. However, right now as a member of the band the only perks you get are admission to sporting events and a really fun group of people to spend you non-studying hours with. Oh yea, and a bunch of grief from coach Tedford (Dykes seems okay), Cal Athletics, Marketing/PA, and fans just like you.

As a result, Cal Band comes first for only a small portion of its members. For most, it's not their number one priority behind school, work, professional clubs, etc.

If you want a band where most of the members treat it as their number one priority (like I imagine most of athletes treat their respective sports/teams), provide admission benefits, scholarships and academic credit, just as you would get as a member of a sports team.

Personally as a former-member I prefer it the way it is. Less rules/oversight, more fun, more of a unique experience to become a student leader. But it does come with downsides, as have been mentioned in this thread.

OldBlue1999;842739079 said:

---

Tedford had his faults, but this was not one of them. The fact that the band had to be told not to make noise while the offense was on the field is the real problem.

---

Sorry,but this is bullshit... Somehow the teams went to rose bowls, Bruce Snyder loved what the band did and that team did better than Tedford's team... Tedford did a lot good but he had a giant stick up his ass when it came to this. He 100% did not get the game day stuff.

KoreAmBear;842738714 said:

---

First of all, great win, kudos to the D! It shouldn't have been that close if the refs hadn't inserted themselves into the game with like 3-4 very Utah-friendly calls on critical plays. Otherwise, I had a terrific time with my son, who went to his first Cal football game.

Now to my main thought. I haven't been to CMS in a while, but how is it that the Utah Band with what looked like half its personnel can play like twice as loud as our band (with more members) in our house? Also, how is it that they seemed to play every other play while our band seemed to play once in a while only and largely deferred to them?

I know this is a sensitive topic, and we all have definitive opinions on this. But seems like we are too nice in allowing other bands to have so much volume (like even overlapping with our play snaps) and constant playing. I know TCMB has this pride in being more of a technical band, but why wouldn't they want to be louder and have more impact? I don't know how much more technical/artistic we are than other bands, but it just always seems like other bands kick sand in our faces. Sadly, that was my impression.

---

First off, I'm annoyed that you have been in the Bay Area and I have not seen you... I guess the next time I am at the Moana Surfrider we will not be having a dinner under the Banyan tree.

Secondly, with all due respect, you tend to look sort of for the grey clouds... :-) Like if the student section isn't full before kickoff, I can count on you commenting on that ;-) If you don't think the crowd is loud enough etc... I was commenting with some other friends, but Memorial is one of the loudest, most disruptive stadiums in the conference, and for OOC opponents, as you see by what happened on Saturday, the false starts and delay of games Texas had and by what you here from so many opposing teams (someone quick, please insert Ohio State game as proving this isn't true.....) yet Cal fans will bemoan how bad the crowds are... what people don't get is opposing crowds ALWAYS seem loud because they're making noise when you're not, so you notice it. Also travling fans, including Cal fans tend to be more amped for games and into them... anyway...

Side note about the opposing bands playing... I think it was in the 3rd quarter of the Texas game, we had the ball and there was some sort of time out... out of nowhere the referee made a BEE LINE to the Texas band and you can see he was just reading them the riot act... apparently they had been playing while Cal was at the line and he was PISSED (he was also a big 12 official). I found it hilarious.

Been attending games since 1963. Definitely can't hear as well as I used to even with hearing aids, but must say the band is not as loud as it used to be. No disrespect to the woodwinds, but much more brass is needed. Also I don't think they move as fast as they used to.

xultaif;842740904 said:

---

Sorry,but this is bullshit... Somehow the teams went to rose bowls, Bruce Snyder loved what the band did and that team did better than Tedford's team... Tedford did a lot good but he had a giant stick up his ass when it came to this. He 100% did not get the game day stuff.

---

No, it's not bullshit. I remember the games when the band played while we were on offense. That was bullshit. I'm glad to hear Tedford let them have it. If they tried pulling that passive agressive sh!t on Snyder or Pappy I'm sure they would have reacted negatively too. There are many fine gameday traditions involving the band. Playing while the home team is on offense is not one of them and never has been.

Personally, I don't come to the games to watch the band, but can appreciate the sense of tradition. Some people really love the half time band performance, but I usually take a leak, grab a refill and talk with friends. My observation from those around me in the stands is pretty consistently 25% interested vs 75% gone or not interested in what is happening with the band.

However, when I do pay attention and when certain members of the band invariably break into some sort of dance/conniption fit during a song..... WTF!?!? About ten years ago this might have been cute, but it happens pretty much every time and is a total joke!

Knock it off! You're embarrassing yourself!

:rant

reddmannbutt;842740894 said:

---

USC and even UCLA can recruit musicians to their marching band because they can provide preferential admission month school through the band/music department.

I'm sure Cal could recruit more high school brass players to come and join the band if it meant the high schoolers had a better chance of getting into Cal. However, right now as a member of the band the only perks you get are admission to sporting events and a really fun group of people to spend you non-studying hours with. Oh yea, and a bunch of grief from coach Tedford (Dykes seems okay), Cal Athletics, Marketing/PA, and fans just like you.

As a result, Cal Band comes first for only a small portion of its members. For most, it's not their number one priority behind school, work, professional clubs, etc.

If you want a band where most of the members treat it as their number one priority (like I imagine most of athletes treat their respective sports/teams), provide admission benefits, scholarships and academic credit, just as you would get as a member of a sports team.

Personally as a former-member I prefer it the way it is. Less rules/oversight, more fun, more of a unique experience to become a student leader. But it does come with downsides, as have been mentioned in this thread.

---

I think the fact that it has less rules and oversight is probably one of the reasons why Cal Band can't recruit. If you're a HS band member and you have three choices - Cal, UCLA or USC - and you're ambivalent about academics (or its important but the band moreso), then which one are you going to pick? I would pick the one is first rate, is operated effectively and gives some sort of admission or academic credit. The fact that its student run is one reason I think it seems like a glorified high school band.

philly1121;842740992 said:

---

I think the fact that it has less rules and oversight is probably one of the reasons why Cal Band can't recruit. If you're a HS band member and you have three choices - Cal, UCLA or USC - and you're ambivalent about academics (or its important but the band moreso), then which one are you going to pick? I would pick the one is first rate, is operated effectively and gives some sort of admission or academic credit. The fact that its student run is one reason I think it seems like a glorified high school band.

---

Maybe... but neither of those schools really have notable bands? Cal is the big west coast marching band presence. UCLA's band is pretty unknown, SC's band = tribute to troy. Though I would agree that credit and admissions help would be a major boost for us.

Generally, west coast bands aren't great. We have a decent, well known one. The gripe is that it's not that awesome and should be better.

socaliganbear;842741001 said:

---

Maybe... but neither of those schools really have notable bands?

---

USC is absolutely more notable than Cal. Football history and Hollywood, man. They record for a lot of TV/ movie studio stuff. That doesn't mean better, but....

UCLA, who knows? On TV a lot more for football over the years. I'm sure everyone thinks we copied songs from them.

Outside the Bay Area, the Cal band is not well known at all.

socaliganbear;842741001 said:

---

Maybe... but neither of those schools really have notable bands? Cal is the big west coast marching band presence. UCLA's band is pretty unknown, SC's band = tribute to troy. Though I would agree that credit and admissions help would be a major boost for us.

Generally, west coast bands aren't great. We have a decent, well known one. The gripe is that it's not that awesome and should be better.

---

Definitely U$C's band is well regarded both nationally and internationally. This may be in large part to their appearance in many Hollywood movies and television shows. UCLA's band does not have the reputation of U$C but they are a formidable band especially if this is a discussion about volume.

Basically college marching band break down into two different categories: modern corps style and traditional style.

Corps style bands focus on sound. When they march, all band members turn their torsos to face front so that their sound always projects forward. Corps style bands place great emphasis on warming up and tuning which are, other than sheer numbers what really creates volume. When band members are perfectly in tune, the frequencies resonate and create harmonics that make the sound more impactful and full. 90% of high school marching bands are corps style bands, so a band like UCLA is very well respected in that community because they are a pure corps style band. They are doing something very relateable to high school band recruits and are doing it at a high level.

The other style of band is traditional. Traditional bands adopt a more athletic marching style often sacrificing sound for a more energetic look on the field. Cal, Ohio State, Grambling, Wisconsin and to a certain extent U$C are all traditional style bands. Cal is easily the most traditional of the group I just mentioned. Their marching style has been relatively unchanged since it was first revamped in the 50s. All the other traditional bands have adopted corps style techniques and principles to improve their sound in the field. The Cal Band historically is unfavorable to changes that are associated with corps style bands because of adherence to tradition. This creates a culture that does not prioritize the long amount of time that corp style bands invest in playing together, playing in tune, and making a large impact with a your sound on the field and in the stands.

I love the Cal Band. I love the student structure of the band, and am amazed that an organization that has as few administrative watchdogs as the Stanford band has for decades represented Cal's spirit in such an unwavering manner.

But having been in the band and also having served it it's leadership, I am also aware of the things that keep the band from making improvements.

Go Bears! Cal Band Great!!

SC's band has definitely been featured on film etc So yeah, they're known as the hollywood band, but is anyone talking about them like tOSU, A&M, Grambling? That is, because they are an inherently great marching band? Or is it because they're they in movies etc? The discussion is about making the Cal band great for game days right? Not about making it famous and building PR. Given that, I would NOT want a band like either LA school. I suppose "notable" was a distraction to the actual topic.

Hell, Stanford's band is probably the most famous of them all.

I like the cal band, the way they march, the uniforms, the songs they play, the overall tradition. I just wish they play more often at games.
It might just be me but I think USC band uniforms look comical and that ucla tries to copy what USC and Cal does.

socaliganbear;842741020 said:

---

SC's band has definitely been featured on film etc So yeah, they're known as the hollywood band, but is anyone talking about them like tOSU, A&M, Grambling? That is, because they are an inherently great marching band? Or is it because they're they in movies etc? The discussion is about making the Cal band great for game days right? Not about making it famous and building PR. Given that, I would NOT want a band like either LA school. I suppose "notable" was a distraction to the actual topic.

Hell, Stanford's band is probably the most famous of them all.

---

What makes a band great? Have you ever been watching a Cal/U$C and as a Cal fan, wanted to shove an ice pick in your ears because U$C made another defensive stop and their band is playing Tribute to Troy for the 97th time. You think this has any effect even subtlety on the football teams?

Bands are traditionally meant to increase the amount of spirit of their aligned troops and serve as instruments of awe and intimidation for the opposing troops. Any argument that U$C's band is among the best at this?

Nobody wants a copy of either LA band in a Cal Band uniform, but it is important to clarify the discussion and I can tell you as far as the PAC 12 goes, U$C and UCLA are two of the best at representing their schools and having an impact on the game experience.

As far as how we as anonymous message board folks can have an impact of the Cal Band, that's easy.

The band is under funded. It has no regular practice field and has to migrate from location to location based on althetic department priorities. The band has an endowment but the membership has ballooned since the endowment was setup so the money is not cutting it.

Second, express to the athletic department in no uncertain terms, that allowing the band to play to the extent that is allowed by PAC 12 rules is a critical part of your desired game day experience. Perhaps instead of full blown commercials, the announcer can say, "that last song was brought to you by Geico!"

Finally realize that the football team's success will trickle down to the band. Even with the disadvantages in administrative structure, I would predict that a couple bigger bowl games in a row would positive benefit the infrastructure of the band. After a couple Rose Bowl appearance the Washington Band had new uniforms, new vans, new instruments etc.

Go Bears! Cal Band Great!!

evanluck;842741050 said:

---

What makes a band great? Have you ever been watching a Cal/U$C and as a Cal fan, wanted to shove an ice pick in your ears because U$C made another defensive stop and their band is playing Tribute to Troy for the 97th time. You think this has any effect even subtlety on the football teams?

Bands are traditionally meant to increase the amount of spirit of their aligned troops and serve as instruments of awe and intimidation for the opposing troops. Any argument that U$C's band is among the best at this?

Nobody wants a copy of either LA band in a Cal Band uniform, but it is important to clarify the discussion and I can tell you as far as the PAC 12 goes, U$C and UCLA are two of the best at representing their schools and having an impact on the game experience.

As far as how we as anonymous message board folks can have an impact of the Cal Band, that's easy.

The band is under funded. It has no regular practice field and has to migrate from location to location based on althetic department priorities. The band has an endowment but the membership has ballooned since the endowment was setup so the money is not cutting it.

Second, express to the athletic department in no uncertain terms, that allowing the band to play to the extent that is allowed by PAC 12 rules is a critical part of your desire game day experience. Perhaps instead of full blown commercials, the announcer can say, "that last song was brought to you by Geico!"

Finally realize that the football team's success will trickle down to the band. Even with the disadvantages in administrative structure, I would predict that a couple bigger bowl games in a row would positive benefit the infrastructure of the band. After a couple Rose Bowl appearance the Washington Band had new uniforms, new vans, new instruments etc.

Go Bears! Cal Band Great!!

---

But if the sentiment is that a lot of us would rather have a different style/type of band, why spend more money to fund this iteration? More money so that we can hear their faint sounds during games? From what has been posted here, what people seem to be asking for would require a complete change in how the band is structured, top to bottom. Throwing money at the current structure won't change that, right?

As for the LA bands, I can't think of anything noteworthy beyond how annoying Tribute To Troy is. The rest looks/feels the same. But I'm not a band guy...

socaliganbear;842741053 said:

---

But if the sentiment is that a lot of us would rather have a different style/type of band, why spend more money to fund this iteration? More money so that we can hear their faint sounds during games? From what has been posted here, what people seem to be asking for would require a complete change in how the band is structured, top to bottom. Throwing money at the current structure won't change that, right?

As for the LA bands, I can't think of anything noteworthy beyond how annoying Tribute To Troy is. The rest looks/feels the same. But I'm not a band guy...

---

We are fans. The role of fans is to show up, cheer, pay small amounts of money and invest amounts of time in support of Cal teams and organizations.

If you are a donor, then your influence increases, if you are a large donor, then you have larger influence.

Otherwise as posters on a message board, our ideas have about as much influence as our commitment to them warrants.

Such is the way of the world at least currently.

Go Bears!! Cal Band Great!!!

evanluck;842741061 said:

---

We are fans. The role of fans is to show up, cheer, pay small amounts of money and invest amounts of time in support of Cal teams and organizations.

If you are a donor, then your influence increases, if you are a large donor, then you have larger influence.

Otherwise as posters on a message board, our ideas have about as much influence as our commitment to them warrants.

Such is the way of the world at least currently.

Go Bears!! Cal Band Great!!!

---

That's what i figured....

Phantomfan;842739057 said:

---

For all Tedford brought to Cal in terms of winning for a few years, he destroyed a lot of what made Cal games fun.I think it was an ok trade

---

I do not agree with the resulsif the trade. We got 6 years if good football but we are stuck with years and years of Band mediocrity.

SanseiBear;842739693 said:

---

http://calband.berkeley.edu/donate/

---

You wouldn't be telling us to put our money where our mouth is. Would you?

oskirules;842741037 said:

---

I like the cal band, the way they march, the uniforms, the songs they play, the overall tradition. I just wish they play more often at games.
It might just be me but I think USC band uniforms look comical and that ucla tries to copy what USC and Cal does.

---

I like the Cal Band a lot, too. A little more sound, a little less of the same-old, same-old halftime shows, a little more precision (like in the good ol' days), a couple more halftime shows to the west side and (like you said) playing more often during games... they'd be fantastic.

If you like the CAL Band so much, why don't you complain to the marketing department or to our AD Williams about the piped in music? Less piped in music, more CAL Band

Second, express to the athletic department in no uncertain terms, that allowing the band to play to the extent that is allowed by PAC 12 rules is a critical part of your desired game day experience. Perhaps instead of full blown commercials, the announcer can say, "that last song was brought to you by Geico!"


I have already tried what you have suggested, it just falls on deaf ears. Those in charge want to play piped in music because they are in control and be dammed what the fans think.

Sonofoski;842741126 said:

---

If you like the CAL Band so much, why don't you complain to the marketing department or to our AD Williams about the piped in music? Less piped in music, more CAL Band

---

I thought all this piped in music was something playing in our heads and not reality.

xultaif;842740914 said:

---

First off, I'm annoyed that you have been in the Bay Area and I have not seen you... I guess the next time I am at the Moana Surfrider we will not be having a dinner under the Banyan tree.

Secondly, with all due respect, you tend to look sort of for the grey clouds... :-) Like if the student section isn't full before kickoff, I can count on you commenting on that ;-) If you don't think the crowd is loud enough etc... I was commenting with some other friends, but Memorial is one of the loudest, most disruptive stadiums in the conference, and for OOC opponents, as you see by what happened on Saturday, the false starts and delay of games Texas had and by what you here from so many opposing teams (someone quick, please insert Ohio State game as proving this isn't true.....) yet Cal fans will bemoan how bad the crowds are... what people don't get is opposing crowds ALWAYS seem loud because they're making noise when you're not, so you notice it. Also travling fans, including Cal fans tend to be more amped for games and into them... anyway...

Side note about the opposing bands playing... I think it was in the 3rd quarter of the Texas game, we had the ball and there was some sort of time out... out of nowhere the referee made a BEE LINE to the Texas band and you can see he was just reading them the riot act... apparently they had been playing while Cal was at the line and he was PISSED (he was also a big 12 official). I found it hilarious.

---

Yo my man no more G&T for me? Ah man earlier in the month I was at a short conference and it was really focused, and I had my dad's bypass to deal with so I had to fly down to LA quick. I was even planning on coming back next week for Texas but no go. This time, again a short time, this time with family and couldn't even meet up with extended family. Now down with dad and he's recovering well. G&T and dinner on me any time Mr. Ken!

Yah, I look for gray clouds but it's because I would like the place to be really great. I agree with you 100% on this -- I think our student section, whoever is there, brings it every week and we have the most involved/connected student fan base. Now I can't say that all of them are there even on time, or even come, but yes I know the ones that make it bring it. I rely on them (you) to make big noise on first and second down, and I bring it on third or other critical downs. Otherwise, I would lose my voice by the end of the first quarter. As far as the Cal Band. There's nothing wrong with the Cal Band except I want them to be louder. I just think it's a shame. I want them to be loud, and I want them to play more. I want more Cal Band!

KoreAmBear;842741205 said:

---

Yo my man no more G&T for me? Ah man earlier in the month I was at a short conference and it was really focused, and I had my dad's bypass to deal with so I had to fly down to LA quick. I was even planning on coming back next week for Texas but no go. This time, again a short time, this time with family and couldn't even meet up with extended family. Now down with dad and he's recovering well. G&T and dinner on me any time Mr. Ken!

Yah, I look for gray clouds but it's because I would like the place to be really great. I agree with you 100% on this -- I think our student section, whoever is there, brings it every week and we have the most involved/connected student fan base. Now I can't say that all of them are there even on time, or even come, but yes I know the ones that make it bring it. I rely on them (you) to make big noise on first and second down, and I bring it on third or other critical downs. Otherwise, I would lose my voice by the end of the first quarter. As far as the Cal Band. There's nothing wrong with the Cal Band except I want them to be louder. I just think it's a shame. I want them to be loud, and I want them to play more. I want more Cal Band!

---

OK OK, if you're going to pull out the old "my father's heart surgery" card.... i guess i can let you off the hook :-) We're back on for G&Ts under the Banyan tree! GO BEARS!!!!