First of all, great win, kudos to the D! It shouldn't have been that close if the refs hadn't inserted themselves into the game with like 3-4 very Utah-friendly calls on critical plays. Otherwise, I had a terrific time with my son, who went to his first Cal football game.

Now to my main thought. I haven't been to CMS in a while, but how is it that the Utah Band with what looked like half its personnel can play like twice as loud as our band (with more members) in our house? Also, how is it that they seemed to play every other play while our band seemed to play once in a while only and largely deferred to them?

I know this is a sensitive topic, and we all have definitive opinions on this. But seems like we are too nice in allowing other bands to have so much volume (like even overlapping with our play snaps) and constant playing. I know TCMB has this pride in being more of a technical band, but why wouldn't they want to be louder and have more impact? I don't know how much more technical/artistic we are than other bands, but it just always seems like other bands kick sand in our faces. Sadly, that was my impression.

Band Alumni here. To be honest I don't think the band has been very good since 2009 (my 2nd year in band), which also coincides with the time the Cal Band has been muted during the game. Generally we aren't a very loud band either, I think its because our brass section is smaller and we are more woodwind heavy. I don't know what the makeup is now a days.

We'd be a better band if it wasn't a student run volunteer activity and gave credits and some class scheduling preference, but I guess tradition trumps thats.

KoreAmBear;842738714 said:

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Now to my main thought. I haven't been to CMS in a while, but how is it that the Utah Band with what looked like half its personnel can play like twice as loud as our band (with more members) in our house? Also, how is it that they seemed to play every other play while our band seemed to play once in a while only and largely deferred to them?

I know this is a sensitive topic, and we all have definitive opinions on this. But seems like we are too nice in allowing other bands to have so much volume (like even overlapping with our play snaps) and constant playing. I know TCMB has this pride in being more of a technical band, but why wouldn't they want to be louder and have more impact? I don't know how much more technical/artistic we are than other bands, but it just always seems like other bands kick sand in our faces. Sadly, that was my impression.

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I don't think that the Cal Band is deferring to the visiting bands, they are (stuck) deferring to whoever it is in Cal Athletics that tells them when they can play. There are so many inane things that they do on the video board during stoppages & they don't allow the band to play during those. The LION KING cam?!?! How much more ridiculous can these video board gimmicks get?

glutton;842738731 said:

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The LION KING cam?!?! How much more ridiculous can these video board gimmicks get?

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Holy crap. I was like WTF for that one. I guess some people out there like these gimmicks. I try to ignore them.

I certainly think both band and athletics deserve some class credit

Bear_Territory;842738717 said:

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Band Alumni here. To be honest I don't think the band has been very good since 2009 (my 2nd year in band), which also coincides with the time the Cal Band has been muted during the game. Generally we aren't a very loud band either, I think its because our brass section is smaller and we are more woodwind heavy. I don't know what the makeup is now a days.

We'd be a better band if it wasn't a student run volunteer activity and gave credits and some class scheduling preference, but I guess tradition trumps thats.

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glutton;842738731 said:

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I don't think that the Cal Band is deferring to the visiting bands, they are (stuck) deferring to whoever it is in Cal Athletics that tells them when they can play. There are so many inane things that they do on the video board during stoppages & they don't allow the band to play during those. The LION KING cam?!?! How much more ridiculous can these video board gimmicks get?

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Simba Cam. They'd never fork over the dough to give Disney money fo dat.

Things have been this way ever since Tedford in no uncertain terms told the band not to play at all while we were on offense. Four years of that and the band doesn't know anything different. They 'unlearned' that its all right to play between plays, its even better to play a short snippet after a great play. Then marketing took over and they have taken control over when the band plays. The Student Director wears a headset and can only play when the marketing folks in the press box tell him to play. Marketing has no control over opposing bands so they are able to play at will. Today the utah band was egregious in playing after the ball was in play which I believe is against NCAA rules.
Last year the Cal Band got in the habit of playing short quick segments of Cal songs which was great but that didn't carry over to this year.
Also it seems like the band that is in the end zone (opposing band) is heard better throughout the stadium. The sound of the Cal Band sitting on the 50 for some reason doesn't carry throughout the stadium. Just my thoughts.

KoreAmBear;842738714 said:

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First of all, great win, kudos to the D! It shouldn't have been that close if the refs hadn't inserted themselves into the game with like 3-4 very Utah-friendly calls on critical plays. Otherwise, I had a terrific time with my son, who went to his first Cal football game.

Now to my main thought. I haven't been to CMS in a while, but how is it that the Utah Band with what looked like half its personnel can play like twice as loud as our band (with more members) in our house? Also, how is it that they seemed to play every other play while our band seemed to play once in a while only and largely deferred to them?

I know this is a sensitive topic, and we all have definitive opinions on this. But seems like we are too nice in allowing other bands to have so much volume (like even overlapping with our play snaps) and constant playing. I know TCMB has this pride in being more of a technical band, but why wouldn't they want to be louder and have more impact? I don't know how much more technical/artistic we are than other bands, but it just always seems like other bands kick sand in our faces. Sadly, that was my impression.

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100% agree. The Cal band is barely audible these days, and always seems to be overshadowed by the visiting band.

CalBearForever;842738762 said:

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Things have been this way ever since Tedford in no uncertain terms told the band not to play at all while we were on offense. Four years of that and the band doesn't know anything different. They 'unlearned' that its all right to play between plays, its even better to play a short snippet after a great play. Then marketing took over and they have taken control over when the band plays. The Student Director wears a headset and can only play when the marketing folks in the press box tell him to play. Marketing has no control over opposing bands so they are able to play at will. Today the utah band was egregious in playing after the ball was in play which I believe is against NCAA rules.
Last year the Cal Band got in the habit of playing short quick segments of Cal songs which was great but that didn't carry over to this year.
Also it seems like the band that is in the end zone (opposing band) is heard better throughout the stadium. The sound of the Cal Band sitting on the 50 for some reason doesn't carry throughout the stadium. Just my thoughts.

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Those are very unfortunate developments, but thanks for sharing the low-down with us.

Everything written in this thread thus far has some truth. Also, where were you sitting? The band that's facing you is going to sound the loudest, especially the upper brass, so if you were in, say T or TT, the Cal Band is going to sound muffled. (I think I got an "A-" in Physics 21.)

Big C_Cal;842738776 said:

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Everything written in this thread thus far has some truth. Also, where were you sitting? The band that's facing you is going to sound the loudest, especially the upper brass, so if you were in, say T or TT, the Cal Band is going to sound muffled. (I think I got an "A-" in Physics 21.)

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I was in section I so they were directly across from me, and the decibel level was about half of the Utah band's. It didn't appear that the Cal Marching Band was entirely full today either. Anyone notice that?

I won't get too into my thoughts on the game day experience today because I'm still revelling in the win, but suffice it to say it hit a new low today IMHO. The announcer blathering on over the "GO... BEARS" chant, three separate "cams", piped in music while the freaking band is playing and the green Bart train winning the Bart race. I mean why the hell is there even a green train option? Can we not pick three Cal colors? But I digress.

On the band itself, in addition to the muffling I've noticed for a few years now that the kids want to play perfectly but don't seem to focus enough on playing loudly. I think the quality of the musicianship is as high as it's ever been, but they need to focus more on blasting that sound out. No one cares if it's technically excellent if it can't be heard. They are in a football stadium not a concert hall. But despite that, I'm sticking with Cal Band Great. They are one of the things I look forward to most about the games.

[FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR="#0000CD"]Band Geek Alert[/COLOR][/FONT]
On top of the factors mentioned above, there's physics. If both bands emitted the same sound power, the one in the curve of the stadium (i.e., where the visitors' band sits) would have its sound projected more efficiently throughout the stadium than one sitting at midfield (where the Cal Band sits).

This effect could be measured quite easily by recording the band playing the same song twice; first in their normal place, and then in the visitors' band location.

One recorder would be positioned about 10m away from the band, on the field, facing the band, to make sure that the level is about the same for both band locations.

The other recorder would be in the stands, and would stay in the same seat, keeping everything the same, for both band locations.

If the proposed hypothesis is true, the stationary recorder in the stands will perceive the band as louder when the band is in the visitors' corner, while the recordings from the field, 10m in front of the band, should sound about the same.

As a Cal Band alum, I've been noticing this ever since I left the band & started experiencing games from different parts of the stadium.

I would gladly come & do one pair of the recordings with my Roland R-09 recorder if the band is willing to participate in the experiment. I don't know what kind of recording equipment the band has, but it should be sufficient... The effect would be more pronounced with an empty stadium, so it would be a great project for summer / FTP.

Cal band is not entertaining.

socaliganbear;842739034 said:

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Cal band is not entertaining.

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So we win one of the most entertaining and uplifting games in the past half of a century of Cal football and this thread and this quote in particular is the best that some people can come up with? The constant complaining about everything Cal on this board is pathetic.

PRD74;842739044 said:

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So we win one of the most entertaining and uplifting games in the past half of a century of Cal football and this thread and this quote in particular is the best that some people can come up with? The constant complaining about everything Cal on this board is pathetic.

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There are plenty of uplifting threads about the victory you can read. If you don't want to read a thread talking about the band, don't click.

sycasey;842739049 said:

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There are plenty of uplifting threads about the victory you can read. If you don't want to read a thread talking about the band, don't click.

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Whatever.

CalBearForever;842738762 said:

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Things have been this way ever since Tedford in no uncertain terms told the band not to play at all while we were on offense. Four years of that and the band doesn't know anything different. They 'unlearned' that its all right to play between plays, its even better to play a short snippet after a great play. Then marketing took over and they have taken control over when the band plays. The Student Director wears a headset and can only play when the marketing folks in the press box tell him to play. Marketing has no control over opposing bands so they are able to play at will. Today the utah band was egregious in playing after the ball was in play which I believe is against NCAA rules. Last year the Cal Band got in the habit of playing short quick segments of Cal songs which was great but that didn't carry over to this year.Also it seems like the band that is in the end zone (opposing band) is heard better throughout the stadium. The sound of the Cal Band sitting on the 50 for some reason doesn't carry throughout the stadium. Just my thoughts.

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For all Tedford brought to Cal in terms of winning for a few years, he destroyed a lot of what made Cal games fun.I think it was an ok trade

I have been sitting on the east side in section V for years...and it has always been this way. The visiting band will always sound louder because they are projecting throughout the stadium. The Cal Band is really playing to the alumni side...but it's a bit muffled where I sit.

Phantomfan;842739057 said:

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For all Tedford brought to Cal in terms of winning for a few years, he destroyed a lot of what made Cal games fun.I think it was an ok trade

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Tedford had his faults, but this was not one of them. The fact that the band had to be told not to make noise while the offense was on the field is the real problem.

Bob Calonico is the problem. An embarrassment 👎💩

the game against OSU exposed our band for what it is. A small step up from a high school band. I realize they try hard. I realize they receive zero college credits for what they do. And I know that "student run" had real limitations in terms of funding, expertise and organization.

But it seems like we get outclassed every time an opposing teams band comes to Memorial. For a band that tried to model our band with OSU - can we dump the non brass and go with an all brass set up? I think that would solve our volume problems. And then consider taking this away from the students for greater organization. I can't believe we don't offer college credits. Probably cuz it's a student run thing. Sometimes we have to break with this tradition to get better. And louder.

philly1121;842739179 said:

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the game against OSU exposed our band for what it is. A small step up from a high school band. I realize they try hard. I realize they receive zero college credits for what they do. And I know that "student run" had real limitations in terms of funding, expertise and organization.

But it seems like we get outclassed every time an opposing teams band comes to Memorial. For a band that tried to model our band with OSU - can we dump the non brass and go with an all brass set up? I think that would solve our volume problems. And then consider taking this away from the students for greater organization. I can't believe we don't offer college credits. Probably cuz it's a student run thing. Sometimes we have to break with this tradition to get better. And louder.

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The thing is that they used to be better. Something changed.

True. Is it the band director? Robert Briggs was the guy when I was there. They sounded pretty good back then.

Also - would funding increase for major changes if the band was not student run?

I really want the band to be something we can be proud of. If enrollment permits, all brass and percussion just sounds better for a marching band. And getting more contemporary with the music would help. I get that a lot of it is geared towards the donors but let's get the students and team excited about the band too.

sycasey;842739184 said:

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The thing is that they used to be better. Something changed.

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It looked like there are more members than previous years. I credit this to the free Australia trip a month back.

Specifics on where the $$ come from that the band has available would be interesting.

I assume there are band alums who donate.

If it is student run, then that means it is a 'club'....???

Is there an endowment fund?

Is there an annual Band concert/program that we can attend....buy tickets?

http://calband.berkeley.edu/donate/

Donating to Cal band... what's the point unless they implement changes? Keeping the status quo would be a waste of money imo. Last thing I'd wan't is to pay out of pocket to NOT hear the band play.

PRD74;842739044 said:

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So we win one of the most entertaining and uplifting games in the past half of a century of Cal football and this thread and this quote in particular is the best that some people can come up with? The constant complaining about everything Cal on this board is pathetic.

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Understatement

KoreAmBear;842738778 said:

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I was in section I so they were directly across from me, and the decibel level was about half of the Utah band's. It didn't appear that the Cal Marching Band was entirely full today either. Anyone notice that?

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It was High School Band Day.
It appeared each high school band had a few Cal Band members assigned to them to help guide.
Looked like at least 30 members.

Go Bears!!
Cal Band Great!!!

cbbass1;842738814 said:

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[FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=#0000CD]Band Geek Alert[/COLOR][/FONT]
On top of the factors mentioned above, there's physics. If both bands emitted the same sound power, the one in the curve of the stadium (i.e., where the visitors' band sits) would have its sound projected more efficiently throughout the stadium than one sitting at midfield (where the Cal Band sits).

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So,

move the band to endzone (gotta move students as well then).
play louder music
sell 50 yard line seats to donors



...profit? (or at help least close the $20 million deficit).


BTW, if you did your test, it would be good to have sound levels at many different seating locations.

Also, I'm not suggesting anyone move.

Athletics/Marketing do not care about Cal Band. Hawaii brought a band to Sydney. Cal could have also. Instead, they brought a CD. Sure, Hawaii is closer to Sydney. That's no excuse. I flew to Sydney for the game $600 rt after fees. If Cal Band boycotted games due to not being allowed to play enough, I doubt Athletics/Marketing would care. They already have a DJ ready!

The piped in music is both loud and unnecessary. Much of the music piped in during the 2nd half were for dumb things that weren't even advertisements. But I'm preaching to the choir. We are two coaches and many years removed since the last season when Cal Band played a lot during games. There are no current Bandsmen who remember *how* to play more during games. Ever notice that there is no longer a 3rd quarter break-off band that plays around the stadium? My understanding is that it is because they stood in front of and blocked the ads on the walls from the people supposedly appreciating the ads from across the stadium! How ridiculous is that? This silencing of the Band has been discussed for several years amongst Band alums, and even brought to the attention of Athletics/Marketing, but has fallen on deaf ears.

The complaints about the dimished quality of the Gameday experience have to come en masse from the general fans in attendance.

Until that happens, we might as well just use a CD.

philly1121;842739179 said:

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the game against OSU exposed our band for what it is. A small step up from a high school band. I realize they try hard. I realize they receive zero college credits for what they do. And I know that "student run" had real limitations in terms of funding, expertise and organization.

But it seems like we get outclassed every time an opposing teams band comes to Memorial. For a band that tried to model our band with OSU - can we dump the non brass and go with an all brass set up? I think that would solve our volume problems. And then consider taking this away from the students for greater organization. I can't believe we don't offer college credits. Probably cuz it's a student run thing. Sometimes we have to break with this tradition to get better. And louder.

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The Cal Band would love to have more brass players. They try like crazy to recruit more. The challenge is three-fold:

1. Cal's Music Dept does not have a performance emphasis (I believe their emphasis' are Theory, History, Composition and Conducting). Thus, there is a limited pool of quality brass players that come to Cal.

2. With the increasing tuition costs and increasing pressure to achieve academically, many Cal freshmen who play a band instrument opt not to join the Cal Band, either because they feel it might take too much time away from their studies, or they are obligated to work or graduate ASAP.

3. While I thought playing in the Cal Band was really cool, I didn't until I happened to join the band, almost by accident. Playing in a college marching band here just doesn't have the cachet that it might it at, say, tOSU or Grambling.

Big C_Cal;842740347 said:

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The Cal Band would love to have more brass players. They try like crazy to recruit more. The challenge is three-fold:

1. Cal's Music Dept does not have a performance emphasis (I believe their emphasis' are Theory, History, Composition and Conducting). Thus, there is a limited pool of quality brass players that come to Cal.

2. With the increasing tuition costs and increasing pressure to achieve academically, many Cal freshmen who play a band instrument opt not to join the Cal Band, either because they feel it might take too much time away from their studies, or they are obligated to work or graduate ASAP.

3. While I thought playing in the Cal Band was really cool, I didn't until I happened to join the band, almost by accident. Playing in a college marching band here just doesn't have the cachet that it might it at, say, tOSU or Grambling.

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So why are they able to find plenty of non brass players? What is it about the challenges you listed that only brass players are hindered by?

Are non brass players wealthier, naturally smarter, and immediately sold on Cal band?