OT: How are you voting for the CA propositions?

7,007 Views | 64 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by sp4149
TheSouseFamily
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wifeisafurd;842751032 said:

I want the state to sell it, like Utah sells wine, beer and booze. Think of all the revenue. Utah is the number 1 state for business growth over the last couple years due in part to the State's building massive infrastructure improvements in advance of growth (they also invest heavily in education). How can they afford to do this? They make huge coin selling alcohol. I'm thinking "Golden Bear Head Shops" cures all our budgetary ills.


You have infinitely more trust in the government than I do to run a business efficiently and effectively.
BeachedBear
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I'm in the vote NO on everything unless it is a real compelling issue. The type that may come up once every ten years or so.

I WOULD be in favor of a proposition that stipulated that, for every proposition that passes in the future, 10% of every state legislators compensation goes to fund said proposition.

We really need government with better feedback loops.
okaydo
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Which prop is Calexit?
oski003
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I'm not against the legalization of pot, but I do worry about second-hand smoke. Will people realize that, just because it's legal, it's not legal to smoke it in public? I don't want my baby, kids, parents, sober friends, etc... exposed to marijuana smoke.
TheSouseFamily
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oski003;842751070 said:

I'm not against the legalization of pot, but I do worry about second-hand smoke. Will people realize that, just because it's legal, it's not legal to smoke it in public? I don't want my baby, kids, parents, sober friends, etc... exposed to marijuana smoke.


Johns Hopkins University research published in Alcohol and Drug Dependence, argues there's no harm unless you're in a "extreme unventilated conditions."
socaliganbear
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oski003;842751070 said:

I'm not against the legalization of pot, but I do worry about second-hand smoke. Will people realize that, just because it's legal, it's not legal to smoke it in public? I don't want my baby, kids, parents, sober friends, etc... exposed to marijuana smoke.


Do people realize this about cigarette smoke yet?
oski003
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socaliganbear;842751079 said:

Do people realize this about cigarette smoke yet?


What are you getting at? Are you trying to say that I shouldn't be worried about marijuana smoke because people can smoke cigarettes in most public places?
kaplanfx
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moonpod;842750928 said:

Dude. Why would u want to be the guy who porked the furd girl.


Quote:

Otter: Let me give you a hint. She's got a couple of major-league yabbos.
Boon: Beverly!
Otter: No. But you're getting warmer. Here's another: "Oh God, Oh God, OH GOD!"
Boon: Marlene! Don't tell me you're gonna pork Marlene Desmond!
Otter: Pork?
Boon: You're gonna hump her brains out, aren't you?
Otter: Boon, I anticipate a deeply religious experience.
-- The Greatest Film of All Time.
socaliganbear
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oski003;842751089 said:

What are you getting at? Are you trying to say that I shouldn't be worried about marijuana smoke because people can smoke cigarettes in most public places?


Im saying... do you have those same concerns with cigarette 2nd hand smoke? If so, then you already know how to deal with it.
kaplanfx
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oski003;842751070 said:

I'm not against the legalization of pot, but I do worry about second-hand smoke. Will people realize that, just because it's legal, it's not legal to smoke it in public? I don't want my baby, kids, parents, sober friends, etc... exposed to marijuana smoke.


People smoke in public all the time now. Legalization should lead to better enforcement of things like; where you can smoke in public (or not), driving while under the influence, and preventing access to minors.

I don't personally smoke on a regular basis, but I don't see any reason for it to be illegal and several compelling reasons for legalization.
sycasey
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I'd like to vote on a proposition that will prevent there from being so many damn propositions.
kaplanfx
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sycasey;842751120 said:

I'd like to vote on a proposition that will prevent there from being so many damn propositions.


Second!
oski003
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socaliganbear;842751111 said:

Im saying... do you have those same concerns with cigarette 2nd hand smoke? If so, then you already know how to deal with it.


The freedom to smoke weed in public should trump my wanting to not be exposed to the smoke?
socaliganbear
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oski003;842751147 said:

The freedom to smoke weed in public should trump my wanting to not be exposed to the smoke?


Huh??? Im saying that, like cigarette smoke, your concern is not new and you already know how this will affect you and how you will avoid it.
MinotStateBeav
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Smoking weed in public isn't legal in Oregon. Nothing really changed here other than , ya know..not getting arrested buying it. Also Oregon has another $43 million in cash from the taxes on it. I don't even wanna guess how much cash Cali would make off legalized pot. Probably not enough to stop new props for raising taxes though lol.
BeachedBear
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oski003;842751147 said:

The freedom to smoke weed in public should trump my wanting to not be exposed to the smoke?


I had a neighbor (in an apartment building that didn't allow smoking) that always smoked outside in front of my door/window. After a number of polite attempts at discourse, his position of "I have a right to smoke outside" was not going to be dissuaded. I went out and bought a bottle of "Liquid A$$ Fart Prank Gas" (google it). Every time he smoked outside my door/window, I'd give him a dose of that. He complained to the police and they told him that I have as much right to spray fart gas in his face as he does to blow smoke in mine.

And.... it felt like an appropriate solution, since this guy was a real a$$.
LarsBear74
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sycasey;842751120 said:

I'd like to vote on a proposition that will prevent there from being so many damn propositions.


Sorry, the ghost of Hiram Johnson may come to haunt you.
Re: In 1911, Johnson and the Progressives added initiative, referendum, and recall to the state government, giving California a degree of direct democracy unmatched by any other U.S. state.

I agree with wifeisafurd -- we all need to elect legislators who will do their damned jobs, and then we won't have so many referendums.
Calcoholic
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[SIZE=5][COLOR="#006400"]HELL..... YES [X].... on 64[/COLOR][/SIZE]
GMP
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LarsBear74;842751240 said:



I agree with wifeisafurd -- we all need to elect legislators who will do their damned jobs, and then we won't have so many referendums.


I generally, but not as a rule, sympathize with WIAF's position - to vote "no" on all propositions. But for you to justify that by saying if legislators would "do their damned jobs" we'd have fewer propositions is illogical - it implies that the propositions are actually NECESSARY laws. Propositions are laws that have not been made by legislators. If they had made them, we wouldn't have the propositions. But since we do have the propositions, it means the legislature did not pass a similar law, which could very well be doing their job, if it's a bad law.
tequila4kapp
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wifeisafurd;842751032 said:

I want the state to sell it, like Utah sells wine, beer and booze. Think of all the revenue. Utah is the number 1 state for business growth over the last couple years due in part to the State's building massive infrastructure improvements in advance of growth (they also invest heavily in education). How can they afford to do this? They make huge coin selling alcohol. I'm thinking "Golden Bear Head Shops" cures all our budgetary ills.
some thoughts from an Oregonian on this...

We often think of pot as the innocent guy smoking a bowl in his home. Bid deal, consenting adults doing what the want in praviavte, right? Well it is more than that. There's a sub industry called 'edibles' where food items are made to look common items (think gummy bears or chocolate bar) and can have dangerous levels of pot. This also creates a potential problem where young kids get drugs via "candy"

Second problem: legalized pot costs more than street pot so it isn't all regulated and sold like booze; we still have an active black market for illegal pot.

Maybe those issues aren't big concerns to a particular person and if so, okay. But heads up that it isn't quite so cut and dried as it might sound at first blush.
tequila4kapp
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kaplanfx;842751113 said:

Legalization should lead to better enforcement of things like; where you can smoke in public (or not), driving while under the influence, and preventing access to minors.
The opposite has happened in Portland. People occasionally smoke in public and laws are not enforced. We see people smoking pot and driving. See also my comment above about black market driven by economics and edibles.
tequila4kapp
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MinotStateBeav;842751165 said:

Smoking weed in public isn't legal in Oregon. Nothing really changed here other than , ya know..not getting arrested buying it. Also Oregon has another $43 million in cash from the taxes on it. I don't even wanna guess how much cash Cali would make off legalizjed pot. Probably not enough to stop new props for raising taxes though lol.

Things appear to be a bit different for you down in Redmond than up here in Portland.
MinotStateBeav
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tequila4kapp;842751281 said:

The opposite has happened in Portland. People occasionally smoke in public and laws are not enforced. We see people smoking pot and driving. See also my comment above about black market driven by economics and edibles.


People smoked pot and drove before legalizing. That's still illegal. Not sure why there is a black market..you can legally grow 5 plants per person. It sounds like your problem is more about enforcement and not the actual legalization. I don't think anyone argues people smoking weed should be driving.
TheSouseFamily
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MinotStateBeav;842751294 said:

People smoked pot and drove before legalizing. That's still illegal. Not sure why there is a black market..you can legally grow 5 plants per person. It sounds like your problem is more about enforcement and not the actual legalization. I don't think anyone argues people smoking weed should be driving.


First of all, "smoking" pot is getting very pass. Even legendary cannabis enthusiasts like Willie Nelson and Snoop Dogg have all gone the vaporizer route.
MinotStateBeav
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TheSouseFamily;842751312 said:

First of all, "smoking" pot is getting very pass. Even legendary cannabis enthusiasts like Willie Nelson and Snoop Dogg have all gone the vaporizer route.


What can I say...I'm old school. I still use a PC.
82gradDLSdad
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tequila4kapp;842751281 said:

The opposite has happened in Portland. People occasionally smoke in public and laws are not enforced. We see people smoking pot and driving. See also my comment above about black market driven by economics and edibles.


I think the most dangerous thing folks do while driving is looking at and typing on their phones. And that is illegal and not well enforced
sycasey
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LarsBear74;842751240 said:

I agree with wifeisafurd -- we all need to elect legislators who will do their damned jobs, and then we won't have so many referendums.


Part of why they don't do their jobs is because they know everything gets punted to referendums anyway.
CalFan4Ever
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No on 64. I don't smoke but I'm pro legalization but the special interests getting the tax revenue is ludicrous-- just put it in the damn general fund:

Who could use marijuana?
Proposition 64 would legalize the recreational use of marijuana for adults aged 21 years or older. Smoking would be permitted in a private home or at a business licensed for on-site marijuana consumption. Smoking would remain illegal while driving a vehicle, anywhere smoking tobacco is, and in all public places. Up to 28.5 grams of marijuana and 8 grams of concentrated marijuana would be legal to possess. However, possession on the grounds of a school, day care center, or youth center while children are present would remain illegal. An individual would be permitted to grow up to six plants within a private home, as long as the area is locked and not visible from a public place.[10]

Who could sell marijuana?
To sell marijuana for recreational use, businesses would need to acquire a state license. Local governments could also require them to obtain a local license. Businesses would not be authorized to sell within 600 feet of a school, day care center, or youth center.[10]

The initiative was also designed to prevent licenses for large-scale marijuana businesses for five years in order to prevent "unlawful monopoly power."[15]

Who would regulate marijuana?
The Bureau of Medical Cannabis Regulation would be renamed the Bureau of Marijuana Control. It would be responsible for regulating and licensing marijuana businesses.[10]

Counties and municipalities would be empowered to restrict where marijuana businesses could be located. Local governments could also completely ban the sale of marijuana from their jurisdictions.

How would marijuana be taxed?
Proposition 64 would create two new excise taxes on marijuana. One would be a cultivation tax of $9.25 per ounce for flowers and $2.75 per ounce for leaves, with exceptions for certain medical marijuana sales and cultivation. The second would be a 15 percent tax on the retail price of marijuana. Taxes would be adjusted for inflation starting in 2020.[1]

Local governments would be authorized to levy taxes on marijuana as well.

Where would revenue be spent?
Revenue from the two taxes would be deposited in a new California Marijuana Tax Fund. First, the revenue would be used to cover costs of administrating and enforcing the measure. Next, it would be distributed to drug research, treatment, and enforcement, including:[1]

$2 million per year to the UC San Diego Center for Medical Cannabis Research to study medical marijuana.
$10 million per year for 11 years for public California universities to research and evaluate the implementation and impact of Proposition 64. Researchers would make policy-change recommendations to the California Legislature and California Governor.
$3 million annually for five years to the Department of the California Highway Patrol for developing protocols to determine whether a vehicle driver is impaired due to marijuana consumption.
$10 million, increasing each year by $10 million until settling at $50 million in 2022, for grants to local health departments and community-based nonprofits supporting "job placement, mental health treatment, substance use disorder treatment, system navigation services, legal services to address barriers to reentry, and linkages to medical care for communities disproportionately affected by past federal and state drug policies."
The remaining revenue would be distributed as follows:[1]

60 percent to youth programs, including drug education, prevention, and treatment.
20 percent to prevent and alleviate environmental damage from illegal marijuana producers.
20 percent to programs designed to reduce driving under the influence of marijuana and a grant program designed to reduce negative impacts on health or safety resulting from the proposition.
Yogi1
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wifeisafurd;842750907 said:

Make the legislators do their job - no on all, as usual. I just think legislation by initiative leads to bad government and makes the state in some way ungovernable.


Couldn't agree more. Ballot initiatives have done far more harm than good in this state because our legislature refuses to do their jobs. Unless the initiative creates protected money for education, I generally vote no on all of them.
okaydo
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This is a bit off topic, but I really, really hate soda taxes. Or I hate this soda tax trend. (I think they're voting on this in SF.)

For instance, Philadelphia recently passed a soda tax of 1.5 cents per ounce on soda and diet soda.

So say you buy a 2-liter Diet Coke for $1.29.

That's 67.6 ounces x 1.5 cents = $1.01 in taxes.

(I couldn't find out if they also charge a recycling fee.)

Meanwhile, Philadelphia has a liquor tax of 10% of the sale price.

So say you buy a 12-pack of Bud Light, which typically goes for $9.99 at the supermarket. That's 144 ounces.

10% x 9.99 = $1.00



67.6 ounces of diet soda* = $1.01 in taxes

144 ounces of beer = $1.00 in taxes

There's just something wrong with that.

(If you're buying a 99-cent generic brand 2-liter soda, you're paying more than 100% in taxes.)


If you're going to tax for sugar or artificial sugar, then every drink with sugar in it should be taxed. Heck, so should ice cream and cake and candy!
sp4149
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Back in the 70s I had a temp job for a contractor doing studies for the state legislature. Back then legislators served for many years and knew more about the state and legal practices and needed reference material
(this is provided mostly by lobbyists now that political careers in the state house is term limited) One study was on California litter and the need for a solution. It took a referendum to impose taxes on beverage containers.
But the result has been a decrease in litter. All the doom and gloom prophecies of the beverage industry never materialized and the amount of beverage can litter declined dramatically. It was interesting that although Oly outsold Coors,
Coors cans were two times the observed litter compared to Oly. It was like Coors drinkers littered four times more than Oly drinkers.

For me the worst referendums are those that emotionally set criminal penalties. Three strikes and you're out didn't win by telling people that the taxes they would have to pay for expanded prison population would double and some recent first time offender would be let out sooner to make room for the three strike lifers. On the other hand I can't fault the populace from trying to make the government more effective by changing the way prices are set. Medicare shouldn't pay more for prescription drugs than major players like Blue Cross, Blue shield. If the VA negotiates lower prescription drug prices; why should all government Rx purchases set prices the same. Thanks to the Reagan rule my Medicare costs are going up 50% because of a very low COLA adjustment for Social Security recipients. WE have death panels in the drug industry (and health care industry) that have been setting drug prices so high that many cannot afford treatment of life threatening illnesses. The private sector doesn't want to budge and reduce prices. Blue Cross Blue Shield price negotiations dropped UC Hospitals out of my Preferred Provider program. The health insurance industry is seeing rate increases as large as those of the ACA; but somehow that is not news.

okaydo;842752142 said:

This is a bit off topic, but I really, really hate soda taxes. Or I hate this soda tax trend. (I think they're voting on this in SF.)

For instance, Philadelphia recently passed a soda tax of 1.5 cents per ounce on soda and diet soda.

So say you buy a 2-liter Diet Coke for $1.29.

That's 67.6 ounces x 1.5 cents = $1.01 in taxes.

(I couldn't find out if they also charge a recycling fee.)


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