I am curious how a group of well-educated and presumably well informed people are voting for the CA propositions...Im talking about you guys BearInsider. I just started researching these issues yesterday and will probably cast my ballot this weekend. Just wanted to know if anyone feels strongly about one of the props one way or another.

What's the best way to find an objective description of each proposition?

oski003;842750857 said:

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What's the best way to find an objective description of each proposition?

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The voting guide that's mailed to you is probably the best thing you'll get. Problem with that is that it doesn't always cover the hidden motivations of the backers of each prop.

I vote to devote all of mankind's remaining resources to building a time machine and going back in time to do a do over.

Ballotpedia is often a good resource for looking at ballot propositions.

The voting guide is 222 pages. It'll take a Cal degree just to wade through it.

In honor of the Cal football season, I think I'll vote Y N Y N Y N Y N .......

Voted for 61. Was it a misrake?

TheSouseFamily;842750864 said:

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Ballotpedia is often a good resource for looking at ballot propositions.

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I used this. It's fairly complete.

Same here. My rule of thumb is usually to vote against whichever side pours in the most money. I like ballotpedia includes the amount of money funding each side. Exceptions for props where nobody opposes it.

Prop 54 is an easy Yes. Require bills in the Legislature to be made public at least 72 hours before the vote.

Stops the nonsense where they write and pass bills within hours, depriving the public of the opportunity to review it.

I'm voting for a prop in Oregon to build a wall and make California pay for it :P

Cascadians cannot afford more Californians!

MinotStateBeav;842750882 said:

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I'm voting for a prop in Oregon to build a wall and make California pay for it :P

Cascadians cannot afford more Californians!

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Lot of bad hombres here in CA. Wish some of them were on our defense

hanky1;842750856 said:

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I am curious how a group of well-educated and presumably well informed people are voting for the CA propositions...Im talking about you guys BearInsider. I just started researching these issues yesterday and will probably cast my ballot this weekend. Just wanted to know if anyone feels strongly about one of the props one way or another.

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Well...if reviewed prop by prop, this could take the rest of the week. I start with the SF Chron summaries, a good starting place whether you agree with the Chron's editorials or not. Reference to Chron news stories on issues related to the Props are included.

http://projects.sfchronicle.com/2016/voter-guide/

Some of the Props have valid arguments pro and con, and seem to require a gut level call. Makes you want to vote for "....not there yet, go back and write this again...". FWIW, here's a few of my thoughts on a couple of the Props.

Prop 55. I think the Chron's argument that the state's tax structure needs comprehensive overhaul is absolutely valid, though I don't think the legislature will take that up very soon. That would involve reconsideration of Prop 13, and I would not hold my breath waiting for that to happen. No more money for Cal either way. I figured a no vote would simply lead to cutting more public education funds at the lowest levels. A bad situation. Voted yes.

Prop 61. The Chron's argument that the state should demand transparency in drug price negotiation, which would lead to lower pricing is well taken, but it is another case of just when the legislature will get around to it. I figured a no vote would give cover to those that want to prolong that day. I agreed with the comment that drug manufacturers need a 2 x 4 over the head, and this is what is available now. Voted yes.

CalAlumnus13;842750880 said:

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Prop 54 is an easy Yes. Require bills in the Legislature to be made public at least 72 hours before the vote.

Stops the nonsense where they write and pass bills within hours, depriving the public of the opportunity to review it.

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Ironically Cal was one of the all time great beneficiaries of this. Remember when we snuck something in to a bill in the dead of night to designate Memorial as a historical landmark (and therefore exempt from Alquist Priolo)? Made the Hill People's otherwise strong case to block the renovation evaporate overnight. Honestly that was awesome - although in general you are of course right.

BGolden;842750868 said:

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The voting guide is 222 pages. It'll take a Cal degree just to wade through it.

In honor of the Cal football season, I think I'll vote Y N Y N Y N Y N .......

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Make the legislators do their job - no on all, as usual. I just think legislation by initiative leads to bad government and makes the state in some way ungovernable.

My default tends to be 'no' for every proposition unless there's a very compelling case for change. Honestly I think that's how much people should view these things.

There's no way 1 citizen can research all these props exhaustively so usually I just look at newspaper recommendations. LA Times, SF Chron, OC Register, Sac Bee, and SD Trib. That's a pretty good mix of liberal, conservative, and moderate opinions.

I can tell you now that I am definitely voting NO for prop 61 and YES on prop 54. Prop 54 seems like a no brainer to me. Prop 61 is a bit more tricky. The funder of the prop (founder of the AIDS Healthcare Foundation in Hollywood) is a shady organization that I've had experience with. They take donations that people give them for AIDS research and instead funnel that money into political causes that the founder is interested in. A lot of that money goes into NIMBY initiatives that prevent housing development in Hollywood which has driven up housing costs in LA. Prop 61 is no different. It seems good on the surface, but the founder of AIDS Healthcare Foundation has EXEMPTED his for profit organizations from the proposition. I'm not against limiting prices that the state pays for drugs, but no organization (least of all the organization funding the ballot initiative) should be exempted. Otherwise the whole thing is a scam.

Unfortunately, Bernie Sanders has come out for prop 61, but what the hell does the Vermont Senator know about CA politics? I think if he did more of his homework he would not have supported this.

wifeisafurd - I agree. The worst example of this was the Prop 13 mess. The legislature saw that it was going to pass due to their overtaxing and so they proposed Prop 20 (which would have a split roll - Prop 13 treatment for personal residences and real value yearly appraisals for business property. Both passed but Prop 13 ruled because it got more votes. If they had done their jobs, we would not have the ridiculous situation we have now on property taxes.

The only other prop I've definitely made up my mind for is prop 64 to legalize pot.

I hear that there are quite a few porn stars posting on BI.

Just wondering what you thought of the condom proposition?

Also, which one of you guys filmed the porn where a Cal guy steals a Stanford guy's girl?

okaydo;842750919 said:

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I hear that there are quite a few porn stars posting on BI.

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Please be joking.

Dude. Why would u want to be the guy who porked the furd girl.

moonpod;842750928 said:

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Dude. Why would u want to be the guy who porked the furd girl.

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That's called porking pork!

CAL6371;842750911 said:

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wifeisafurd - I agree. The worst example of this was the Prop 13 mess. The legislature saw that it was going to pass due to their overtaxing and so they proposed Prop 20 (which would have a split roll - Prop 13 treatment for personal residences and real value yearly appraisals for business property. Both passed but Prop 13 ruled because it got more votes. If they had done their jobs, we would not have the ridiculous situation we have now on property taxes.

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Not to get too far into politics/the weeds - but am always curious when people refer in some form to the "ridiculous situation" we have with property taxes. What is the ridiculous situation? Since Prop 13 passed, state property tax revenue growth has far exceeded both inflation and population growth. The state is 14th in per capita property taxes now. I get that our state is at the top! in the country in income tax rate, base sales tax, and gasoline tax - but do we have to be leaders in everything? <grin>

Beat SC!

Of course revenue has exploded - but far less than property values.
I have rental at the beach which I bought for $25,000 in 1974. Last week I paid the taxes on it - $616 for the year. The property is worth more than $750,000. If you bought the house today, you would be paying over $7,500 in taxes. You call that fair?
If the property was a business and you bought the building next door and set up a new business, I would be paying $616 a year and your new, just started business would be paying over $7,500. Is that what you call fairness? Standard Oil has a refinery in Richmond - it has Prop 13 protection and probably pays not 1% in tax but more like 0.1% - is that a fair tax system? People often sell their homes - want to speculate when Chevron will sell that refinery? Bet on never.

going4roses;842750925 said:

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Please be joking.

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HAHAHAHA

moonpod;842750928 said:

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Dude. Why would u want to be the guy who porked the furd girl.

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I didn't say the girl's a furd.....

okaydo;842750944 said:

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HAHAHAHA



I didn't say the girl's a furd.....

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Size matters

pingpong2;842750952 said:

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Size matters

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She will take the Campanile over Hoover Tower every time.

oski003;842750857 said:

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What's the best way to find an objective description of each proposition?

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Here's a 'facts only" non partisan site covered in the latest Cal monthly:. https://calmatters.org/elections/

The condoms in porn initiative is problematic because of its enforcement mechanism. It allows any citizen to file lawsuit against a "producer" if a condom wasn't visible in every single frame of the video.

In effect, a religious anti-porn activist could file suit against a husband and wife that only perform with each other on webcam, even if they used a condom, if at any point the camera angle didn't show the condom.

CalAlumnus13;842750981 said:

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The condoms in porn initiative is problematic because of its enforcement mechanism. It allows any citizen to file lawsuit against a "producer" if a condom wasn't visible in every single frame of the video.

In effect, a religious anti-porn activist could file suit against a husband and wife that only perform with each other on webcam, even if they used a condom, if at any point the camera angle didn't show the condom.

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Wait, this covers amateur self uploads? ? ?

I've got some life choices to make.

socaliganbear - as usual, very funny line.

CAL6371;842750940 said:

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Of course revenue has exploded - but far less than property values.
I have rental at the beach which I bought for $25,000 in 1974. Last week I paid the taxes on it - $616 for the year. The property is worth more than $750,000. If you bought the house today, you would be paying over $7,500 in taxes. You call that fair?
If the property was a business and you bought the building next door and set up a new business, I would be paying $616 a year and your new, just started business would be paying over $7,500. Is that what you call fairness? Standard Oil has a refinery in Richmond - it has Prop 13 protection and probably pays not 1% in tax but more like 0.1% - is that a fair tax system? People often sell their homes - want to speculate when Chevron will sell that refinery? Bet on never.

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For the record, yes I do think it is fair. In the end, is enough revenue provided (in conjunction w other taxes) to run the government? I believe yes. It's not about profit sharing. (Also like the way prop taxes work for folks on fixed income.) There is a technical problem where businesses (which own real property) are sold and through legal maneuvering - the property avoids a reassessment. That glitch could stand fixing.

CAL6371;842750940 said:

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Of course revenue has exploded - but far less than property values.
I have rental at the beach which I bought for $25,000 in 1974. Last week I paid the taxes on it - $616 for the year. The property is worth more than $750,000. If you bought the house today, you would be paying over $7,500 in taxes. You call that fair?
If the property was a business and you bought the building next door and set up a new business, I would be paying $616 a year and your new, just started business would be paying over $7,500. Is that what you call fairness? Standard Oil has a refinery in Richmond - it has Prop 13 protection and probably pays not 1% in tax but more like 0.1% - is that a fair tax system? People often sell their homes - want to speculate when Chevron will sell that refinery? Bet on never.

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The real question is where can I get a CA beach house at 750k???

hanky1;842750912 said:

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The only other prop I've definitely made up my mind for is prop 64 to legalize pot.

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I want the state to sell it, like Utah sells wine, beer and booze. Think of all the revenue. Utah is the number 1 state for business growth over the last couple years due in part to the State's building massive infrastructure improvements in advance of growth (they also invest heavily in education). How can they afford to do this? They make huge coin selling alcohol. I'm thinking "Golden Bear Head Shops" cures all our budgetary ills.

moonpod;842750928 said:

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Dude. Why would u want to be the guy who porked the furd girl.

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In our house, it better be the Furd girl who is the recipient of sexual desire.