Reading Beautween the Lines and QB Situation

Ncsf
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Rushinbear;842859910 said:

McIlwain has his strengths, as the others have theirs. If he can't find a passing lane, he'll be better off taking off than trying to throw on the run. Can't see enough of his arm on this vid. Then, again, he's a frosh there. Time will tell.


He throws very well on the run.
GoldenBearofCalifornia
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MoragaBear;842859661 said:

McIlwain will have 3 seasons of eligibility.

Right now, he's 4 to play 3.


Could you clarify why McIlwain is not currently eligible?
going4roses
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GoldenBearofCalifornia;842859996 said:

Could you clarify why McIlwain is not currently eligible?


Ncaa rule
Must sit out because he transferred
OdontoBear66
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Is it a rule that can be waived by the school from which he transferred? I seem to recall Cal was the "good guys" in doing so for some who left us for other schools, but the circumstances may have been different. I certainly don't see why So. Carolina would care if he played at Cal, other than to dissuade others from transferring (making it too easy, so to speak).
Goobear
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OdontoBear66;842860011 said:

Is it a rule that can be waived by the school from which he transferred? I seem to recall Cal was the "good guys" in doing so for some who left us for other schools, but the circumstances may have been different. I certainly don't see why So. Carolina would care if he played at Cal, other than to dissuade others from transferring (making it too easy, so to speak).


That is when kids have graduated and can play their 5th year somewhere else....not the case here...
OdontoBear66
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Goobear;842860015 said:

That is when kids have graduated and can play their 5th year somewhere else....not the case here...


Thanks. That was of late with the grad school transfers, but I seem to recall a number of transfers (it may have been of commits) that Cal just released and that most others didn't in similar situations. Never in conference though---that was a unanimous NO.
TheSouseFamily
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OdontoBear66;842860027 said:

Thanks. That was of late with the grad school transfers, but I seem to recall a number of transfers (it may have been of commits) that Cal just released and that most others didn't in similar situations. Never in conference though---that was a unanimous NO.


Signed commits are a different ball of wax. The only way you can get around the one year transfer hold-out is to get an exemption due to family hardship, elimination of the student-athlete's athletic program, elimination of the student-athlete's academic program, etc. But those are all NCAA requirements. The sending and receiving schools can't really get around that. I've always assumed that McIlwain has to sit out a year. I'm not sure what the basis of an exemption could possibly be, to be honest. Perhaps there's something but it would be surprising to me if he somehow got a waiver.
upsetof86
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BearlyClad;842859833 said:

Run the ball. A lot.

Good backs, add the TE spot, OL better at run-blocking anyway, so better chance for success (though mix needed).

Then over the top to D Rob or MS every once in a while with some quick slants and TE plays.

I think we run and dump off a lot to set up our deep tgreats and YAC threats. West Coast style.
upsetof86
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And Bowers mau have the edge but i keep feeling like its kind of a pawlawski-like leader fantasy driving that. I just want reliable and smart. We have a lot of playmakers.
XXXBEAR
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jdavisbofa;842859897 said:

I have attended three practices so far. My preliminary view regarding the QBs is as follows:

Garbers is the most accurate passer but is inconsistent. McIlwain is very athletic but is the least accurate of the passers. Forrest and Bowers are just about equal with a slight advantage to Bowers. Forrest seems to be ahead for now just because has lead off with the first reps of each practice that I have attended.

On an overall basis I think all of the QBs are good passers but not as good as Goff or Webb.

I will attend more practices and update next week.


I'll go with the eyewitness...
CalBear04
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upsetof86;842860039 said:

And Bowers mau have the edge but i keep feeling like its kind of a pawlawski-like leader fantasy driving that. I just want reliable and smart. We have a lot of playmakers.


I think that's why I feel better about the success we will have with Baldwin and the offense as a whole. I think his offense will be more consistent and make better use of our play makers regardless of the QB. That said, there will be games when it's on the line and you need 1-2 to step up and the QB has the best chance to turn the tide.
GoldenBearofCalifornia
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Oh, ok. Thanks. In that case, why do people think he might be eligible this year?
MoragaBear
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GoldenBearofCalifornia;842860067 said:

Oh, ok. Thanks. In that case, why do people think he might be eligible this year?


I've seen or heard no one that thinks he'll be eligible this year but until it's ruled out by the NCAA, it's always a possibility.

Exactly no one here knows what grounds the appeal was made on but there was obviously some basis or they wouldn't waste time trying.
Blueblood
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Wow, I really didn’t understand the gravity of just how badly Cal is in need of a
quarterback until seeing the after full pads practice comments. I further believe
however that Coach Wilcox understands all too well the exigency of this need.

The post contact-practice comments tout not so much Bowers or Forrest but
McIlwain and to a lesser extent Garbers. This is strange because no one knows if
McIlwain will even be eligible to play, and Garbers is just a frosh.

I think it’s obvious that Wilcox is hoping that McIlwain gains eligibility as remote a
possibility as that is. If not, he realizes that he’ll probably have to wing it with both
untested QBs this coming season. With these latter QBs who apparently cannot
separate their capabilities from one another, I believe Cal is looking at 2 or maybe
a three win season at best but with McIlwain maybe Cal gets a couple more wins.

So tighten your belts Bear fans.

I bet that Coach Wilcox is well prepared to do the next best thing to solve his QB
woes.

I would suspect that Cal’s, as well as Coach Wilcox’s, fortunes rest on getting an
experienced grad transfer QB (who is better than what he’s seen so far) added to
the 2018 class at the last minute. As Rachel Maddow says, “Watch this space!”
MoragaBear
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I've been to the majority of the open practices and post practice media sessions and watched the rest.

They're not desperate at QB or think they can't win more than a couple games with Forrest or Bowers starting.

Baldwin's EWU teams beat Pac-12 teams with much lower rated QBs and rosters in general and almost beat UW a couple years ago, too.

I wouldn't jump to any conclusions by reading the tea leaves after one post practice interview.
Blueblood
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MoragaBear;842860100 said:

I've been to the majority of the open practices and post practice media sessions and watched the rest.

They're not desperate at QB or think they can't win more than a couple games with Forrest or Bowers starting.

Baldwin's EWU teams beat Pac-12 teams with much lower rated QBs and rosters in general and almost beat UW a couple years ago, too.

I wouldn't jump to any conclusions by reading the tea leaves after one post practice interview.



I won't argue with you that they "think" they can win "more than a couple games." They shouldn't be on the team if they didn't think such. My post was more to addressing what might be possibly running through Coach Wilcox's mind regarding the QB situation. I do find it difficult to believe that Coach Wilcox, although maybe not "desperate", isn't at least a little concerned about the QB position.

I'm not really jumping to conclusions so much as seeing what the rest of the Pac-12 media is seeing with Cal. Thus, I unfortunately believe Cal winning more than a couple of games with Bowers and/or Forrest is a tough pill to swallow. I'm not trying to knock these two players so much as looking at what Cal is facing in conference as I've seen several practices of Cal's more formidable foes (you know the ones who don't have to wait until game time to name a starting QB).
Big C
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mbBear;842859855 said:

I think you are victim of the Cal fan disease known as "the new guy is always better." You are ready to elevate a guy over drill work, but hold the incumbents to a higher standard.
I'm not immune to the disease: I was curious that McIlwain was getting the kind of reps that he is because somehow the staff holds out hope of him being eligible, and therefore, he becomes QB 1 the moment the NCAA gives them the go ahead. I also have had moments of believing "if Garbers is that close to the other two, then let him start, and have a lot of reps come league play."
But, the reality is (and Moraga and other observers are saying as much): trying to read tea leaves now gets you one thing.....tea.


You and that Moraga Bear guy need to stop with the enlightened, measured common sense. Have an opinion, for crying out loud! You'll NEVER get to be an on-air pundit the way you're going.

At least claim you've been to multiple practices and then state that Quarterback X is the most accurate, except for when he's not. We read BI for this sort of expertise/wisdom.

If you're still not clear, let me try again: Even though you (like me and most everybody else here) don't know 1% as much as the coaches about this, PICK A GUY and state your reasons! If you can't think of any reasons, just select from the following:
Quarterback W is the most athletic.
Quarterback X has the biggest upside and we're building for the future.
We need to win now and Quarterback Y would be the best game manager in 2017.
You saw Quarterback Z exhort his teammates on after a play in the Spring Game, just like Pawlowski once did.
(Don't forget to change the wording a bit, so it seems like your own observation.)

Now, try again and come back stronger, bro!
mbBear
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Big C_Cal;842860104 said:

You and that Moraga Bear guy need to stop with the enlightened, measured common sense. Have an opinion, for crying out loud! You'll NEVER get to be an on-air pundit the way you're going.

At least claim you've been to multiple practices and then state that Quarterback X is the most accurate, except for when he's not. We read BI for this sort of expertise/wisdom.

If you're still not clear, let me try again: Even though you (like me and most everybody else here) don't know 1% as much as the coaches about this, PICK A GUY and state your reasons! If you can't think of any reasons, just select from the following:
Quarterback W is the most athletic.
Quarterback X has the biggest upside and we're building for the future.
We need to win now and Quarterback Y would be the best game manager in 2017.
You saw Quarterback Z exhort his teammates on after a play in the Spring Game, just like Pawlowski once did.
(Don't forget to change the wording a bit, so it seems like your own observation.)

Now, try again and come back stronger, bro!


I thought my Garbers stance was fairly controversial? If he is close to the other two, and has that much more raw talent, then start him.
And no, I have never seen Garbers play, so I am still on track to my on-air job
Rushinbear
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Ncsf;842859988 said:

He throws very well on the run.


Good to know. It didn't show up on that vid - he seemed inclined to take off instead.
MoragaBear
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Blueblood;842860103 said:

I won't argue with you that they "think" they can win "more than a couple games." They shouldn't be on the team if they didn't think such. My post was more to addressing what might be possibly running through Coach Wilcox's mind regarding the QB situation. I do find it difficult to believe that Coach Wilcox, although maybe not "desperate", isn't at least a little concerned about the QB position.

I'm not really jumping to conclusions so much as seeing what the rest of the Pac-12 media is seeing with Cal. Thus, I unfortunately believe Cal winning more than a couple of games with Bowers and/or Forrest is a tough pill to swallow. I'm not trying to knock these two players so much as looking at what Cal is facing in conference as I've seen several practices of Cal's more formidable foes (you know the ones who don't have to wait until game time to name a starting QB).


To be clear, I think Wilcox and the staff aren't as worried about the QB and team as you think they are.
OdontoBear66
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MoragaBear;842860148 said:

To be clear, I think Wilcox and the staff aren't as worried about the QB and team as you think they are.


At the same time there is little excitement exuded. Sounds like slow, steady progress but with Cal considered by all pundits to be questionable at QB we really need someone to stand out. We need some separation. If not, then understand there is valid reason to worry----that along with depth of the OLine. They are real concerns. If not, Cal would be considered higher.

My take is that Cal will outperform perceptions. But that is based on the quality of the new coaching staff and getting the most out of the existing talent. I would like to see Coach Wilcox, Baldwin, or Coach T super excited about how one of our QBs is coming along.
Blueblood
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MoragaBear;842860148 said:

To be clear, I think Wilcox and the staff aren't as worried about the QB and team as you think they are.


To be equally clear also, I understand what you say. I'll go along with what you observe. It just that I have a different view of what you observed. To me, Wilcox should demonstrate some visible worry. The fact as you say that he doesn't, worries me, especially in view of the QBs that his defense will be facing in the conference North. That is, he's no where near expecting his team to be in the Rose Bowl or even Santa Clara. I think such non-worry shows that he accepts what might be expected of his team more than anything else, but he is a defense first type of coach so maybe he's still getting used to being a head coach?
6956bear
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OdontoBear66;842860155 said:

At the same time there is little excitement exuded. Sounds like slow, steady progress but with Cal considered by all pundits to be questionable at QB we really need someone to stand out. We need some separation. If not, then understand there is valid reason to worry----that along with depth of the OLine. They are real concerns. If not, Cal would be considered higher.

My take is that Cal will outperform perceptions. But that is based on the quality of the new coaching staff and getting the most out of the existing talent. I would like to see Coach Wilcox, Baldwin, or Coach T super excited about how one of our QBs is coming along.


I do not think Wilcox is a coach that is going to exude lots of outward excitement. That and until you see your team play somebody else you really do not know what you have. As for the Qb they are having an open competition or at least that is what they say. They want this to play out and let the best one prevail. As a fan we all want to hear glowing things about your team and QB in particular. I think they will be "ok" at the position. Hopefully better, but lets be real here the Bears just lost 2 QBs to the NFL these past 2 seasons. There will be some growing pains regardless of the "talent". They have not played in a game as of yet.

Everybody is still trying to figure out how this staff operates day to day. What we do know is that they play it very close to the vest. Very little information comes out for our consumption. My guess is that what we have been allowed to see so far is by design. The closed practices we do not see may be more telling. Especially this next week.
evanluck
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Not sure what benefit demonstrating "visible worry" would serve.

If he had accepted the media predictions for the team, a smart coach would be setting lower expectations with the fans by highlighting the media perceptions in his own press conferences. He and Baldwin are handling it perfectly. Neither of the top two guys is knocking their socks off but they honestly believe they can win with either quarterback. Meanwhile, they have more options for next year.

Time for a little trust. I think given the circumstances he inherited, and how he has assembled his staff and created recruiting momentum, he has earned a little trust until we see the Bears play their first game.


Blueblood;842860161 said:

To be equally clear also, I understand what you say. I'll go along with what you observe. It just that I have a different view of what you observed. To me, Wilcox should demonstrate some visible worry. The fact as you say that he doesn't, worries me, especially in view of the QBs that his defense will be facing in the conference North. That is, he's no where near expecting his team to be in the Rose Bowl or even Santa Clara. I think such non-worry shows that he accepts what might be expected of his team more than anything else, but he is a defense first type of coach so maybe he's still getting used to be a head coach?
GoldenBearofCalifornia
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MoragaBear;842860089 said:

I've seen or heard no one that thinks he'll be eligible this year but until it's ruled out by the NCAA, it's always a possibility.

Exactly no one here knows what grounds the appeal was made on but there was obviously some basis or they wouldn't waste time trying.


Thanks for the clarification, MB.
drizzlybears brother
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Blueblood;842860161 said:

To be equally clear also, I understand what you say. I'll go along with what you observe. It just that I have a different view of what you observed. To me, Wilcox should demonstrate some visible worry. The fact as you say that he doesn't, worries me, especially in view of the QBs that his defense will be facing in the conference North. That is, he's no where near expecting his team to be in the Rose Bowl or even Santa Clara. I think such non-worry shows that he accepts what might be expected of his team more than anything else, but he is a defense first type of coach so maybe he's still getting used to being a head coach?


Solid stuff.
Unless his non-worry is intentional anticipating the expectation of worry. There is also the issue of your levels of demonstrated worry. No worry of course would lack all credibility, but what level of worry is appropriate vis-a-vis the desired amount of worry you want to project. I'm middle worried. Goldilocks like.
BGolden
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CalBear04;842859986 said:

While I may be distracted by the shiny new object, my pick is Garbers, not McIlwain based on what I've seen. Garbers doesn't look ready yet but he does look like the best of the group.

My prediction is Bowers to start, Garbers to finish the season.


Sounds plausible. Installing a new offense, @UNC, Ole Miss, USC in the first four games, not the best scenario for a freshman QB.
6956bear
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Blueblood;842860161 said:

To be equally clear also, I understand what you say. I'll go along with what you observe. It just that I have a different view of what you observed. To me, Wilcox should demonstrate some visible worry. The fact as you say that he doesn't, worries me, especially in view of the QBs that his defense will be facing in the conference North. That is, he's no where near expecting his team to be in the Rose Bowl or even Santa Clara. I think such non-worry shows that he accepts what might be expected of his team more than anything else, but he is a defense first type of coach so maybe he's still getting used to being a head coach?


I don't think he worries about this. He cannot control it. These are the players he has. He knows what he inherited. He inherited a team that is predicted to finish last by nearly every "expert". He hired Tui and Baldwin to develop one of these guys to become a starting QB. Does Cal has a Sam Darnold type talent right now? Very unlikely. Is JW "expecting" to be in the Rose Bowl this season. I am certain he is not. I doubt very seriously he "accepts" anything. He will prepare the team to be as good as it can be. They will teach, and motivate this current group while continuing to recruit players to improve the talent base within the program.

He has plenty to do, worrying about the QB is not worthwhile. It accomplishes nothing and sends a bad message to the team, media and fans. I am interested in whom the QB will be as much as anyone. I am not expecting any current QB on hand to lead this team to the Rose Bowl this season. I do expect the player to be competent and improve over the season. I expect Baldwin to find a way to move the ball and score points. I would like the situation to be settled. But for now I am taking the view that they have 3 guys doing well and it has been hard to choose the starter. If others want to believe that they have Moe, Larry and Curly that is their choice. But I doubt JW worries about it nor believes the die is cast and this is a certain 1 or 2 win team.
RhetoriCal Bear
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Matt Saracen for QB--oh sorry, I just got Netflix, started watching Friday Night Lights and got confused.
FrankBear21
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slobear;842860280 said:

Matt Saracen for QB--oh sorry, I just got Netflix, started watching Friday Night Lights and got confused.


You're going to like it.
RhetoriCal Bear
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Yeah, I'm already watching 2-4 episodes at a time. No spoilers please. :p
NYCGOBEARS
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slobear;842860286 said:

Yeah, I'm already watching 2-4 episodes at a time. No spoilers please. :p

I just rewatched the whole series recently. Love that show.
RhetoriCal Bear
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NYCGOBEARS;842860291 said:

I just rewatched the whole series recently. Love that show.


Yeah, one of my partners just did the same thing. He and another partner have said it is one of the best tv series ever, which is basically why I started in on it.
XXXBEAR
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Blueblood;842860097 said:

Wow, I really didn't understand the gravity of just how badly Cal is in need of a
quarterback until seeing the after full pads practice comments. I further believe
however that Coach Wilcox understands all too well the exigency of this need.

The post contact-practice comments tout not so much Bowers or Forrest but
McIlwain and to a lesser extent Garbers. This is strange because no one knows if
McIlwain will even be eligible to play, and Garbers is just a frosh.

I think it's obvious that Wilcox is hoping that McIlwain gains eligibility as remote a
possibility as that is. If not, he realizes that he'll probably have to wing it with both
untested QBs this coming season. With these latter QBs who apparently cannot
separate their capabilities from one another, I believe Cal is looking at 2 or maybe
a three win season at best but with McIlwain maybe Cal gets a couple more wins.

So tighten your belts Bear fans.

I bet that Coach Wilcox is well prepared to do the next best thing to solve his QB
woes.

I would suspect that Cal's, as well as Coach Wilcox's, fortunes rest on getting an
experienced grad transfer QB (who is better than what he's seen so far) added to
the 2018 class at the last minute. As Rachel Maddow says, "Watch this space!"


If Dykes were still coach, then you might be accurate, but times have changed. With an improved defense and an imaginative offense we will surprise.
Blueblood
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xxxbear;842860309 said:

if dykes were still coach, then you might be accurate, but times have changed. With an improved defense and an imaginative offense we will surprise.




ahahahahahahahahahahhhhhhh.......god, it feels good to be back! Pour me a glass
of that stuff that you're a'drinkin'!
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