Bear19 said:

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Alkiadt said:

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Wilcox literally tried to hire Tosh...
Tedford was not easy to work for.

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Aw, poor little Lying Snake. Tedford was hard to work for!! Did Lying Snake get his poor little feelings hurt? You think that justifies what Lying Snake did?

NEWS FLASH: It doesn't.

And exactly how do you know Wilcox tried to hire Lying Snake? Stop with this nonsense. Tedford wants nothing to do with Lying Snake. And neither does any coach who has the slightest inkling of truthfulness or integrity.

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You do realize Wilcox was the one to convince him to do all the stuff you are mad about?

MoragaBear said:

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ayetee11 said:

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Bear19 said:

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Alkiadt said:

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Wilcox literally tried to hire Tosh...
Tedford was not easy to work for.

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Aw, poor little Lying Snake. Tedford was hard to work for!! Did Lying Snake get his poor little feelings hurt? You think that justifies what Lying Snake did?

NEWS FLASH: It doesn't.

And exactly how do you know Wilcox tried to hire Lying Snake? Stop with this nonsense. Tedford wants nothing to do with Lying Snake. And neither does any coach who has the slightest inkling of truthfulness or integrity.

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You do realize Wilcox was the one to convince him to do all the stuff you are mad about?

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Wilcox recruited him to UW. Sarkisian was the one who insisted on the scorched earth tactics. That's not Wilcox's style by a mile and everyone knows it.

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How does everyone know this?

I acknowledge you know more of the backstory than I do, but Wilcox by all reports played a huge role in To$hgate, including aggressively pursuing Tosh (using their friendship as a major pull) and directly working with Tosh in recruiting Shaq Thompson among others.

If Wilcox had told Tosh not to pursue scorched earth, what would have been the result? So even if it was Sarkisian's idea, Wilcox was complicit - the episode doesn't reflect well on him (and much worse on Tosh and Sark).

I support Wilcox as Cal's head coach, but let's not whitewash what happened.

Bear19 said:

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Alkiadt said:

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Wilcox literally tried to hire Tosh...
Tedford was not easy to work for.

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Aw, poor little Lying Snake. Tedford was hard to work for!! Did Lying Snake get his poor little feelings hurt? You think that justifies what Lying Snake did?

NEWS FLASH: It doesn't.

And exactly how do you know Wilcox tried to hire Lying Snake? Stop with this nonsense. Tedford wants nothing to do with Lying Snake. And neither does any coach who has the slightest inkling of truthfulness or integrity.

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Thank you Bear19. [how I miss the old smilies. I would have added the one with its two hands clapping overhead.

Conflicted fan base I'll say

who are the final recruits Cal is waiting on as we approach Signing Day?

going4roses said:

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Conflicted fan base I'll say

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Very much so...

There are those of us who really don't care about what transpired and there are those who care a great deal. Whatever... It is all ancient history now.

Tosh is obviously good at recruiting but is he bright enough to be a DC???

Yogi Bear said:

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Said it once and I'll say it again.

Tosh is never going to be a defensive coordinator at Alabama and at some point, he's going to want to take that next step. If the timing is right and DeRuyter either gets a more lucrative offer to be a defensive coordinator elsewhere or gets a second chance to be a head coach, there's going to be an opportunity for Tosh to come here as defensive coordinator. And if that happens, I'm going to have a nice hearty long laugh at the schadenfreude to follow.

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I will be fine with this as long as he blows up Bama's recruiting class and brings them all to Cal (kidding).

MoragaBear said:

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BearGoggles said:

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MoragaBear said:

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ayetee11 said:

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Bear19 said:

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Alkiadt said:

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Wilcox literally tried to hire Tosh...
Tedford was not easy to work for.

---

Aw, poor little Lying Snake. Tedford was hard to work for!! Did Lying Snake get his poor little feelings hurt? You think that justifies what Lying Snake did?

NEWS FLASH: It doesn't.

And exactly how do you know Wilcox tried to hire Lying Snake? Stop with this nonsense. Tedford wants nothing to do with Lying Snake. And neither does any coach who has the slightest inkling of truthfulness or integrity.

---

You do realize Wilcox was the one to convince him to do all the stuff you are mad about?

---

Wilcox recruited him to UW. Sarkisian was the one who insisted on the scorched earth tactics. That's not Wilcox's style by a mile and everyone knows it.

---

How does everyone know this?

I acknowledge you know more of the backstory than I do, but Wilcox by all reports played a huge role in To$hgate, including aggressively pursuing Tosh (using their friendship as a major pull) and directly working with Tosh in recruiting Shaq Thompson among others.

If Wilcox had told Tosh not to pursue scorched earth, what would have been the result? So even if it was Sarkisian's idea, Wilcox was complicit - the episode doesn't reflect well on him (and much worse on Tosh and Sark).

I support Wilcox as Cal's head coach, but let's not whitewash what happened.

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I'm not going to get into the whole backstory again. It's pointless.

Yes, Wilcox was complicit in Cal getting screwed over because he leveraged his relationship with Lupoi to get him there but that's business. I don't fault him for that, nor do I fault Lupoi for leaving for a big raise and a HC that at least appeared to value him more. Neither do most people, though they wish it didn't happen.

The main issue has always been the intentional blowing up of the class, whether they had any chance of coming to UW or not. You can believe it was Wilcox (even if you don't have any knowledge of what went
on makes zero sense) if you want, but it was pure Sark. That's not whitewashing. It's just the truth.

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I never said it was Wilcox. I said he was complicit - both in luring Tosh and in implementing the scorched earth plan.

By your version, we're supposed to believe that Wilcox leveraged his relationship with Tosh to lure him to UW, but he couldn't have leveraged that same relationship to encourage Tosh not to pursue scorched earth? Even if it was "pure Sark" who developed the plan, Wilcox was there and could have said or done something. And maybe he did - but that has never been reported by you or anyone else. What has been reported is that Wilcox and Tosh recruited players together (Shaq among others) - the recruiting that implemented the scorched earth plan.

Tosh is ultimately responsible for what he did. But Wilcox was there (technically as Tosh's direct supervisor/boss) and, at least to some extent, what went down is a reflection on him. In all of our professional lives, if your boss or co-worker is doing something legally or morally wrong and you say nothing (during the event or after), you are complicit. In this particular case, Wilcox certainly was in a position to influence Tosh and events.

MoragaBear said:

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BearGoggles said:

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MoragaBear said:

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ayetee11 said:

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Bear19 said:

---

Alkiadt said:

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Wilcox literally tried to hire Tosh...
Tedford was not easy to work for.

---

Aw, poor little Lying Snake. Tedford was hard to work for!! Did Lying Snake get his poor little feelings hurt? You think that justifies what Lying Snake did?

NEWS FLASH: It doesn't.

And exactly how do you know Wilcox tried to hire Lying Snake? Stop with this nonsense. Tedford wants nothing to do with Lying Snake. And neither does any coach who has the slightest inkling of truthfulness or integrity.

---

You do realize Wilcox was the one to convince him to do all the stuff you are mad about?

---

Wilcox recruited him to UW. Sarkisian was the one who insisted on the scorched earth tactics. That's not Wilcox's style by a mile and everyone knows it.

---

How does everyone know this?

I acknowledge you know more of the backstory than I do, but Wilcox by all reports played a huge role in To$hgate, including aggressively pursuing Tosh (using their friendship as a major pull) and directly working with Tosh in recruiting Shaq Thompson among others.

If Wilcox had told Tosh not to pursue scorched earth, what would have been the result? So even if it was Sarkisian's idea, Wilcox was complicit - the episode doesn't reflect well on him (and much worse on Tosh and Sark).

I support Wilcox as Cal's head coach, but let's not whitewash what happened.

---

I'm not going to get into the whole backstory again. It's pointless.

Yes, Wilcox was complicit in Cal getting screwed over because he leveraged his relationship with Lupoi to get him there but that's business. I don't fault him for that, nor do I fault Lupoi for leaving for a big raise and a HC that at least appeared to value him more. Neither do most people, though they wish it didn't happen.

The main issue has always been the intentional blowing up of the class, whether they had any chance of coming to UW or not. You can believe it was Wilcox (even if you don't have any knowledge of what went on makes zero sense) if you want, but it was pure Sark. That's not whitewashing. It's just the truth.

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The "What Tosh did was okay because Tedford threw him under the bus" meme has never made any sense.

1. The bus throwing incident: What we know:

• Cal players took a dive to slow the game down (as had players on many teams)
• One player did an embarrassingly bad job of it and became a short Youtube sensation
• Tosh made the mistake of acknowledging publicly taking a dive
• Larry Scott had a fit and said he wants to know exactly what happened and someone was getting suspended.
• Sandy was too gutless to say "No way in hell is anyone getting suspended. Here is a 20 minute compilation of Pac-10 teams taking a dive that you didn't punish that goes up on Youtube the day you try and punish one of my guys. If we take a fall, EVERYONE is. It is time you stop choosing Cal as your whipping boy" as she should have. As a result, someone was getting suspended.
• Whether Tedford knew of the dive, ordered the dive or didn't know, the conference had no evidence that he did so couldn't suspend him.
• Whether the DC knew of the dive, ordered the dive or didn't know, the conference had no evidence that he did so couldn't suspend him.
• The conference had Tosh on record. He was the highest level guy they could get.

Extraordinarily obvious conclusion that anyone living in the universe should get. It was Tosh's job to throw himself under the bus. You do not take out the defensive play caller when you don't have to. You do not take out the head coach when you don't have to. Just like when your star basketball player is in foul trouble and a whistle blows, your scrub throws up his hand as fast as he can to say he committed the foul. Just like when there is a scandal in the White House and the Deputy Undersecretary of We Screwed Up comes out and says he did it, he acted alone and neither his boss nor the president knew anything about it. Tosh's job was to keep the coaches above him in the game. Period. Full Stop.

This is not like when your boss screws you over for something he did at work and damages your career. NO ONE was upset with Tosh for the dive (they might have been upset for blowing any plausible deniability by opening his mouth). He suffered no adverse consequences at Cal for the blame going to him. And if he had a brain in his head, he'd realize that he suffered no consequences outside of Cal. Most coaches would take a dive in a heartbeat if they thought it would help their team win AND, if anything, they'd see it as a positive that he threw himself on the grenade for his boss.

2. If Tosh's version is correct, so what? Let's assume Tedford didn't appreciate him. Tedford stopped him from recruiting how he wanted. Tedford resented the attention Tosh got. Tedford ordered him to take a dive and then pointed the finger at him. Tedford didn't get him a raise. Assume every worst fact against Tedford. That just makes Tedford a jerk. It might make him justified for taking the UW job (which no one really questions anyway). It does not in any way justify what Tosh did. Best case, he chose to respond to a jerk by being a jerk in a way that not only hurt Tedford but hurt his school and hurt the players he had been coaching. What he did was plain wrong. Unless you are going to come out and say that Cal was lying with that story and Tosh never did anything, Tosh acted like an *******.

So what? The question is whether that is forgivable, or whether it even needs to be. Personally, it was a long time ago. I'm not really sure why so many think our coaches have to be saints and therefore when they take a job here we not only have to absolve them of all their sins but make up bullshyte stories that they didn't sin in the first place. As far as I know there has been at most one virgin birth in the universe, and that person isn't going to coach for Cal anytime soon. Our coaches aren't paid to be pure or nice. (Frankly, many if not most of the most successful coaches have been total *******s) They are paid to do their jobs within the rules. I'd like to like them, but it isn't necessary. I don't see any argument that Tosh didn't behave like an ******* back then. Personally, my opinion is that there are a lot of indications he is still an *******. But that is my opinion. If he wanted to come here and was the right fit for what we wanted and would help make us better, I don't really care if he is an *******. Honestly, I think that ship has sailed. I think his real talent is as defensive line coach and recruiter, and I don't think Cal will ever be willing to pay him enough to lure him away from Alabama. If we did, so be it. We don't need to rewrite history and make him out to be an all around lovable chum to do it.

Hmm k

I believe there is a lot of truth stated in your post. An awful lot. There is also much opinion, the vast majority with which I agree.

I believe it is a long shot that Tosh ever again coaches at Cal, mostly for financial reasons and the timing of other potential opportunities. If he were to coach with Cal again, it would not cause me to respect the person any more, but I would be willing to forgive and continue supporting my beloved team with all my heart and soul.

Go Bears!

Who are the top 30-40 D1 football recruiters right now / next 2-3 yrs ?

Do we have any? Will we have any? ... Which PAC 12 teams have top recruiters on staff now?

At this stage of the proceedings does Bama profit from its numerous championships or from Tosh's recruiting? When you say to a recruit, "We would like you to play for the Tide. We have a scholarship for you," does the recruit jump up and down or does he weigh against it an offer from Utah? The question answers itself. A corollary to that question is whether Bama's current prosperity is the result of Tosh's efforts or does the university itself provide the answer? Joe Namath left western Pennsylvania over 50 years ago to be coached by Bear Bryant. Even then, the school had a pronounced football reputation. It went through some difficult times after Bryant retired, but its reputation as a football factory remained strong and now it is stronger than ever.

The point is that Tosh is just one of many successful recruiters found throughout the football landscape. Let's move on from the debacle of 2012 and find ourselves a proven recruiter. I could forgive Lupoi, but the coffee cup episode in Seattle indicates not much has changed in his personality. The SEC is notorious for underhandedness in recruiting. Tosh fits right in.

Bear8 said:

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but the coffee cup episode in Seattle indicates not much has changed in his personality. The SEC is notorious for underhandedness in recruiting. Tosh fits right in.

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Exactly. This fantasy that Lying Snake will come back to Cal & bring in 5* players who all graduate & go to class is just that, a fantasy.

Who do you think recruited the players responsible for Cal's APR disgrace? Clearly "someone" told them not to worry about going to class, allowed them to abuse Freshmen players, stupidly take an obvious dive in game(s) etc. etc. etc. Not a legacy to be proud about.

Lying Snake caused more than his fair share of damage & abuse at Cal. Every off-season we have to put up with this nonsense that just plain ignores facts & actual behavior. Really, leave Lying Snake slithering around in the SEC, where he clearly belongs.