Recently fired Texas Tech HC was a hell of a qb and can put points on the board with 3 star talent. Also known as a great recruiter. Baldwin can't be our OC if we are going to be an actual contender. We might win a few games but if we want to be serious about winning he can't be the guy.
Kliff Kingsbury would make a great OC
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Last: 6 yr ago by calumnus
As i mentioned in another thread, the guy has NFL interest. When we're willing to pony up that kind of money for a coordinator let me know.
tim94501 said:
Recently fired Texas Tech HC was a hell of a qb and can put points on the board with 3 star talent. Also known as a great recruiter. Baldwin can't be our OC if we are going to be an actual contender. We might win a few games but if we want to be serious about winning he can't be the guy.
It looks like he may be a OC at the NFL level. I would love if he came to Cal. Would be a huge upgrade. Good recruiter and innovative OC and play caller. Good call of it happens.
If not the nfl level, he'd be a million dollar oc at the college level, probably at usc.
Hiring Kingsbury would be an absolute disaster, second only in the recent past, to hiring Dykes. Wilcox is on track to produce a solid winning program at Cal. Defense first, offense next. Instead of constantly shuffling coaches, the answer to "how to get better" is recruit better players and that is what Wilcox is currently trying to accomplish....tim94501 said:
Recently fired Texas Tech HC was a hell of a qb and can put points on the board with 3 star talent. Also known as a great recruiter. Baldwin can't be our OC if we are going to be an actual contender. We might win a few games but if we want to be serious about winning he can't be the guy.
I'll admit that I'm not very familiar with Kingsbury"s recent body of work but as a product of TTU (Leach tree?) I don't see him being a good fit with Wilcox. Of course, one might raise the same issue with Baldwin but he seems to be trying to adjust his offense to accommodate JW's rather conservative defense first approach.tim94501 said:
Recently fired Texas Tech HC was a hell of a qb and can put points on the board with 3 star talent. Also known as a great recruiter. Baldwin can't be our OC if we are going to be an actual contender. We might win a few games but if we want to be serious about winning he can't be the guy.
Seems like your assessment of Baldwin is a bit harsh. I'm not sure you can make a credible argument that our offensive starters are 3-star across the board. The reason we aren't scoring is not because of the coordinator, but because many of our starting players just aren't able to execute a normal offense. That doesn't change with a new coordinator and doesn't change with money. It changes with building the team from the ground up. Now if your argument was that Baldwin's track record will make it impossible for him to get the recruits, then perhaps a change of staff is the only option.
71Bear said:
Defense first, offense next. Instead of constantly shuffling coaches, the answer to "how to get better" is recruit better players and that is what Wilcox is currently trying to accomplish....
Recruiting/coaching on the offensive side of the ball is not even close. It's still a lopsided program but in the opposite direction. Thank goodness the defense can create big chunk plays and house a few balls to keep Cal competitive.
Seems like everyone says we should be better on offense, like our performance on D and O are independent variables and like Wilcox should have easily hired someone better or flipped a switch somewhere to upgrade us from crappy to adequate.
This may be a stupid question, but is that really the case? I'm wondering if our poor performance on O is a direct result of our ridiculous over-achieving on D. I wonder if being this good on D is maxing out our staff's recruiting and game-day prep abilities.
This may be a stupid question, but is that really the case? I'm wondering if our poor performance on O is a direct result of our ridiculous over-achieving on D. I wonder if being this good on D is maxing out our staff's recruiting and game-day prep abilities.
CALiforniALUM said:
Seems like your assessment of Baldwin is a bit harsh. I'm not sure you can make a credible argument that our offensive starters are 3-star across the board. The reason we aren't scoring is not because of the coordinator, but because many of our starting players just aren't able to execute a normal offense. That doesn't change with a new coordinator and doesn't change with money. It changes with building the team from the ground up. Now if your argument was that Baldwin's track record will make it impossible for him to get the recruits, then perhaps a change of staff is the only option.
So year 3 do we get to hold him accountable for not having recruited players that can run his offense? I can't believe anybody can watch our play calling and think "wow our OC is calling great plays". The way it was outlined when he came in was that he was solely responsible for the offense including play calling duties.
Does Alabama's offense suffer because of how good their defense is?
I agree with you but this staff recruits like the Dykes, seemingly ignoring one side of the ball. My recollection last year is the excuse for a relative lack of skill position recruits was something like "there weren't that many guys the staff liked" plus a few misses. Okay, so you'd expect them to load up on skill players this year. But look at this years class. All kinds of D players, OL, a QB and just a couple of skill players. It's like looking at a Wisconsin class. At some point the staff has to prioritize what it doesn't have.71Bear said:Hiring Kingsbury would be an absolute disaster, second only in the recent past, to hiring Dykes. Wilcox is on track to produce a solid winning program at Cal. Defense first, offense next. Instead of constantly shuffling coaches, the answer to "how to get better" is recruit better players and that is what Wilcox is currently trying to accomplish....tim94501 said:
Recently fired Texas Tech HC was a hell of a qb and can put points on the board with 3 star talent. Also known as a great recruiter. Baldwin can't be our OC if we are going to be an actual contender. We might win a few games but if we want to be serious about winning he can't be the guy.
0% chance he has any interest in being the OC of a mid-tier P5 program.
hanky1 said:
0% chance he has any interest in being the OC of a mid-tier P5 program.
Fair enough
tim94501 said:
Does Alabama's offense suffer because of how good their defense is?
It used to until it became all 4 and 5 stars in the 2 deep.
Do you assume Wilcox is an idiot? The guy turned the program around in two years. Why not trust that he knows how to pick his OC?
As I said, "trying to accomplish".CAL4LIFE said:71Bear said:
Defense first, offense next. Instead of constantly shuffling coaches, the answer to "how to get better" is recruit better players and that is what Wilcox is currently trying to accomplish....
Recruiting/coaching on the offensive side of the ball is not even close. It's still a lopsided program but in the opposite direction. Thank goodness the defense can create big chunk plays and house a few balls to keep Cal competitive.
tequila4kapp said:I agree with you but this staff recruits like the Dykes, seemingly ignoring one side of the ball. My recollection last year is the excuse for a relative lack of skill position recruits was something like "there weren't that many guys the staff liked" plus a few misses. Okay, so you'd expect them to load up on skill players this year. But look at this years class. All kinds of D players, OL, a QB and just a couple of skill players. It's like looking at a Wisconsin class. At some point the staff has to prioritize what it doesn't have.71Bear said:Hiring Kingsbury would be an absolute disaster, second only in the recent past, to hiring Dykes. Wilcox is on track to produce a solid winning program at Cal. Defense first, offense next. Instead of constantly shuffling coaches, the answer to "how to get better" is recruit better players and that is what Wilcox is currently trying to accomplish....tim94501 said:
Recently fired Texas Tech HC was a hell of a qb and can put points on the board with 3 star talent. Also known as a great recruiter. Baldwin can't be our OC if we are going to be an actual contender. We might win a few games but if we want to be serious about winning he can't be the guy.
Stop. Please just stop. Dykes' staff at Cal recruited both sides of the ball VERY WELL. Quite a few 4-star and highly regarded 3-star defensive players came to Cal during Dykes recruiting classes. The names that roll off your tongue for this awesome Defense we have now were ALL Dykes recruits. He recruited very well here - he just couldn't find anyone competent to coach defense at ANY coaching position. He recruited players much better than he coached or recruited defensive coaches.
What names roll off the tongue on our D right now? Bynum, Weaver, Kunashyk, Palmer, Bequette, Hawkins, Davis, Rambo, Johnson .... all Dykes recruits.
Defensive coaching was perhaps the worst I have ever seen at Cal - but defensive recruiting was not the problem.
We are 112th on offense out of 129 teams. We are LAST in the PAC-12 in offense. Just two years ago we were FIRST and looking forward to seeing our young OL improve as they matured.
Now the excuse is the players cannot perform a basic offense? Whose job is it to have our players able to play a basic offense? These are smart kids. Maybe the problem is that we run a basic offense? You simply cannot be predictable against a P5 defense with a competent DC and expect it to work.
We run Laird up the middle out of the spread for 1 yard on far too many first downs. It is our 5 against 9. So we blame the kids for not getting a "push"? We put ourselves into third and long and then blame our OL for not being able to maintain a pocket against the ensuing blitz? Or our QB for not being able to squeeze the ball into tightly covered receivers running vanilla routes?
I get that there are injuries, but you have to at least play the hand you were dealt well. McMorris has proven to be a great, great blocker at the H-back position. Attack the edges. Garbers can run, and throws on the run well, so roll him out with an option to run. Clear out and throw short lob passes to our tall guys like Stanford does. Get McIlwain involved at the slot position, but not just one obvious play that the defense can blow up.
All I am asking for is an offense as good as Oregon State's (they are ranked 64th to our 112th). Do you really think their players are that much better than ours?
Now the excuse is the players cannot perform a basic offense? Whose job is it to have our players able to play a basic offense? These are smart kids. Maybe the problem is that we run a basic offense? You simply cannot be predictable against a P5 defense with a competent DC and expect it to work.
We run Laird up the middle out of the spread for 1 yard on far too many first downs. It is our 5 against 9. So we blame the kids for not getting a "push"? We put ourselves into third and long and then blame our OL for not being able to maintain a pocket against the ensuing blitz? Or our QB for not being able to squeeze the ball into tightly covered receivers running vanilla routes?
I get that there are injuries, but you have to at least play the hand you were dealt well. McMorris has proven to be a great, great blocker at the H-back position. Attack the edges. Garbers can run, and throws on the run well, so roll him out with an option to run. Clear out and throw short lob passes to our tall guys like Stanford does. Get McIlwain involved at the slot position, but not just one obvious play that the defense can blow up.
All I am asking for is an offense as good as Oregon State's (they are ranked 64th to our 112th). Do you really think their players are that much better than ours?
+1. Add to that the OC probably is running low risk O now due to early season TOs. We are not seeing the real Baldwin this year. Minimizing risk has made the O predictable.
We were 1-17 on 3rd down last night. There's nothing to call that besides pathetic.
CalLax said:
Do you assume Wilcox is an idiot? The guy turned the program around in two years. Why not trust that he knows how to pick his OC?
I assume he's a defensive guy. Much as dykes was an offensive guy. Andy buh comes to mind.
Total number of 4 star defense commits from 2014-16 per this site is 1: Devonte Downs. (I'm pretty sure Dykes didn't have any in 2013 either, but that's from memory).txwharfrat said:tequila4kapp said:I agree with you but this staff recruits like the Dykes, seemingly ignoring one side of the ball. My recollection last year is the excuse for a relative lack of skill position recruits was something like "there weren't that many guys the staff liked" plus a few misses. Okay, so you'd expect them to load up on skill players this year. But look at this years class. All kinds of D players, OL, a QB and just a couple of skill players. It's like looking at a Wisconsin class. At some point the staff has to prioritize what it doesn't have.71Bear said:Hiring Kingsbury would be an absolute disaster, second only in the recent past, to hiring Dykes. Wilcox is on track to produce a solid winning program at Cal. Defense first, offense next. Instead of constantly shuffling coaches, the answer to "how to get better" is recruit better players and that is what Wilcox is currently trying to accomplish....tim94501 said:
I Recently fired Texas Tech HC was a hell of a qb and can put points on the board with 3 star talent. Also known as a great recruiter. Baldwin can't be our OC if we are going to be an actual contender. We might win a few games but if we want to be serious about winning he can't be the guy.
Stop. Please just stop. Dykes' staff at Cal recruited both sides of the ball VERY WELL. Quite a few 4-star and highly regarded 3-star defensive players came to Cal during Dykes recruiting classes. The names that roll off your tongue for this awesome Defense we have now were ALL Dykes recruits. He recruited very well here - he just couldn't find anyone competent to coach defense at ANY coaching position. He recruited players much better than he coached or recruited defensive coaches.
What names roll off the tongue on our D right now? Bynum, Weaver, Kunashyk, Palmer, Bequette, Hawkins, Davis, Rambo, Johnson .... all Dykes recruits.
Defensive coaching was perhaps the worst I have ever seen at Cal - but defensive recruiting was not the problem.
The stars are only part of the equation. It's the numbers, class balance and other issues. For example, total number of WR signed under Wilcox last season plus commits for this year is 3. Same with RBs. For a team with a glaring lack of talent at the skill position that's a problem.
Except Baldwin has a track record of success that Buh never had.tim94501 said:I assume he's a defensive guy. Much as dykes was an offensive guy. Andy buh comes to mind.CalLax said:
Do you assume Wilcox is an idiot? The guy turned the program around in two years. Why not trust that he knows how to pick his OC?
Did you guys see the halftime Wilcox interview? IIRC he said something to the effect of "we have to run the ball better." The announcers said the staff says "we know what we are" on offense. Baldwin didn't suddenly become an idiot. The offense is terrible. But it's likely this is from the top down and it's purposeful. And unlike the Dykes D's It is working to produce Ws
Cal was 3-3 on 4th down. That is nothing short of brilliant.tim94501 said:
We were 1-17 on 3rd down last night. There's nothing to call that besides pathetic.
The point is that anyone can pick and chose stats to buttress an argument.
Also, I noticed that you failed to cite the loss of a starting OT.
Coaching may by part of the equation but the bulk of any shortcoming is always the talent level. Recruit better players and suddenly the coaches become geniuses......
Constantly shuffling? They've had two full seasons and their unit was worse in Year 2 than Year 1 with most of the same players returning. They need to be held accountable for the lack of production of their unit.71Bear said:Hiring Kingsbury would be an absolute disaster, second only in the recent past, to hiring Dykes. Wilcox is on track to produce a solid winning program at Cal. Defense first, offense next. Instead of constantly shuffling coaches, the answer to "how to get better" is recruit better players and that is what Wilcox is currently trying to accomplish....tim94501 said:
Recently fired Texas Tech HC was a hell of a qb and can put points on the board with 3 star talent. Also known as a great recruiter. Baldwin can't be our OC if we are going to be an actual contender. We might win a few games but if we want to be serious about winning he can't be the guy.
How many times have you seen a team or a unit perform much better with just a change in coaching? Even if you limit yourself to just Cal teams, you can think of lots of examples.CALiforniALUM said:
Seems like your assessment of Baldwin is a bit harsh. I'm not sure you can make a credible argument that our offensive starters are 3-star across the board. The reason we aren't scoring is not because of the coordinator, but because many of our starting players just aren't able to execute a normal offense. That doesn't change with a new coordinator and doesn't change with money. It changes with building the team from the ground up. Now if your argument was that Baldwin's track record will make it impossible for him to get the recruits, then perhaps a change of staff is the only option.
I don't think a new coach would make us the top offense in the conference (although that was enough for the defense), but I think we could reasonably get to middle of the conference with better offensive coaches.
I don't know. Maybe because the OC he picked sucks?CalLax said:
Do you assume Wilcox is an idiot? The guy turned the program around in two years. Why not trust that he knows how to pick his OC?
Here is Dykes' last recruiting class:txwharfrat said:Stop. Please just stop. Dykes' staff at Cal recruited both sides of the ball VERY WELL. Quite a few 4-star and highly regarded 3-star defensive players came to Cal during Dykes recruiting classes. The names that roll off your tongue for this awesome Defense we have now were ALL Dykes recruits. He recruited very well here - he just couldn't find anyone competent to coach defense at ANY coaching position. He recruited players much better than he coached or recruited defensive coaches.tequila4kapp said:
I agree with you but this staff recruits like the Dykes, seemingly ignoring one side of the ball. My recollection last year is the excuse for a relative lack of skill position recruits was something like "there weren't that many guys the staff liked" plus a few misses. Okay, so you'd expect them to load up on skill players this year. But look at this years class. All kinds of D players, OL, a QB and just a couple of skill players. It's like looking at a Wisconsin class. At some point the staff has to prioritize what it doesn't have.
What names roll off the tongue on our D right now? Bynum, Weaver, Kunashyk, Palmer, Bequette, Hawkins, Davis, Rambo, Johnson .... all Dykes recruits.
Defensive coaching was perhaps the worst I have ever seen at Cal - but defensive recruiting was not the problem.
https://cal.rivals.com/commitments/football/
His five star recruit has zero receptions for the year.
His four star recruits are, by and large, busts.
He has a few three star and two star recruits that have become good players for us.
Try and sell me that that was a good job recruiting.
Yes, Wilcox is just joking around. "TraLaLa" His goal is to sit back, smoking cigars & drinking cheap whisky, and then show up on Saturdays & pretend to care about winning.tim94501 said:
if we want to be serious about winning he [Baldwin] can't be the guy.
wow really smh... 90% of this defensive personal was recruited by dykes staff does that mean SD and his staff could not recruit? ... the best players on the defense were recruited by Burns and Tate and Art pulled JKYogi Bear said:Here is Dykes' last recruiting class:txwharfrat said:Stop. Please just stop. Dykes' staff at Cal recruited both sides of the ball VERY WELL. Quite a few 4-star and highly regarded 3-star defensive players came to Cal during Dykes recruiting classes. The names that roll off your tongue for this awesome Defense we have now were ALL Dykes recruits. He recruited very well here - he just couldn't find anyone competent to coach defense at ANY coaching position. He recruited players much better than he coached or recruited defensive coaches.tequila4kapp said:
I agree with you but this staff recruits like the Dykes, seemingly ignoring one side of the ball. My recollection last year is the excuse for a relative lack of skill position recruits was something like "there weren't that many guys the staff liked" plus a few misses. Okay, so you'd expect them to load up on skill players this year. But look at this years class. All kinds of D players, OL, a QB and just a couple of skill players. It's like looking at a Wisconsin class. At some point the staff has to prioritize what it doesn't have.
What names roll off the tongue on our D right now? Bynum, Weaver, Kunashyk, Palmer, Bequette, Hawkins, Davis, Rambo, Johnson .... all Dykes recruits.
Defensive coaching was perhaps the worst I have ever seen at Cal - but defensive recruiting was not the problem.
https://cal.rivals.com/commitments/football/
His five star recruit has zero receptions for the year.
His four star recruits are, by and large, busts.
He has a few three star and two star recruits that have become good players for us.
Try and sell me that that was a good job recruiting.
So you would say the 2016 recruiting class was a good one?going4roses said:wow really smh... 90% of this defensive personal was recruited by dykes staff does that mean SD and his staff could not recruit? ... the best players on the defense were recruited by Burns and Tate and Art pulled JKYogi Bear said:Here is Dykes' last recruiting class:txwharfrat said:
Stop. Please just stop. Dykes' staff at Cal recruited both sides of the ball VERY WELL. Quite a few 4-star and highly regarded 3-star defensive players came to Cal during Dykes recruiting classes. The names that roll off your tongue for this awesome Defense we have now were ALL Dykes recruits. He recruited very well here - he just couldn't find anyone competent to coach defense at ANY coaching position. He recruited players much better than he coached or recruited defensive coaches.
What names roll off the tongue on our D right now? Bynum, Weaver, Kunashyk, Palmer, Bequette, Hawkins, Davis, Rambo, Johnson .... all Dykes recruits.
Defensive coaching was perhaps the worst I have ever seen at Cal - but defensive recruiting was not the problem.
https://cal.rivals.com/commitments/football/
His five star recruit has zero receptions for the year.
His four star recruits are, by and large, busts.
He has a few three star and two star recruits that have become good players for us.
Try and sell me that that was a good job recruiting.
Just for the record, 46% of the defensive players (per calbears.com) are true sophomores, redshirt freshmen or true freshmen. That means they were signed during the Wilcox era.going4roses said:wow really smh... 90% of this defensive personal was recruited by dykes staff does that mean SD and his staff could not recruit? ... the best players on the defense were recruited by Burns and Tate and Art pulled JKYogi Bear said:Here is Dykes' last recruiting class:txwharfrat said:Stop. Please just stop. Dykes' staff at Cal recruited both sides of the ball VERY WELL. Quite a few 4-star and highly regarded 3-star defensive players came to Cal during Dykes recruiting classes. The names that roll off your tongue for this awesome Defense we have now were ALL Dykes recruits. He recruited very well here - he just couldn't find anyone competent to coach defense at ANY coaching position. He recruited players much better than he coached or recruited defensive coaches.tequila4kapp said:
I agree with you but this staff recruits like the Dykes, seemingly ignoring one side of the ball. My recollection last year is the excuse for a relative lack of skill position recruits was something like "there weren't that many guys the staff liked" plus a few misses. Okay, so you'd expect them to load up on skill players this year. But look at this years class. All kinds of D players, OL, a QB and just a couple of skill players. It's like looking at a Wisconsin class. At some point the staff has to prioritize what it doesn't have.
What names roll off the tongue on our D right now? Bynum, Weaver, Kunashyk, Palmer, Bequette, Hawkins, Davis, Rambo, Johnson .... all Dykes recruits.
Defensive coaching was perhaps the worst I have ever seen at Cal - but defensive recruiting was not the problem.
https://cal.rivals.com/commitments/football/
His five star recruit has zero receptions for the year.
His four star recruits are, by and large, busts.
He has a few three star and two star recruits that have become good players for us.
Try and sell me that that was a good job recruiting.
71Bear said:Just for the record, 46% of the defensive players (per calbears.com) are true sophomores, redshirt freshmen or true freshmen. That means they were signed during the Wilcox era.going4roses said:wow really smh... 90% of this defensive personal was recruited by dykes staff does that mean SD and his staff could not recruit? ... the best players on the defense were recruited by Burns and Tate and Art pulled JKYogi Bear said:Here is Dykes' last recruiting class:txwharfrat said:Stop. Please just stop. Dykes' staff at Cal recruited both sides of the ball VERY WELL. Quite a few 4-star and highly regarded 3-star defensive players came to Cal during Dykes recruiting classes. The names that roll off your tongue for this awesome Defense we have now were ALL Dykes recruits. He recruited very well here - he just couldn't find anyone competent to coach defense at ANY coaching position. He recruited players much better than he coached or recruited defensive coaches.tequila4kapp said:
I agree with you but this staff recruits like the Dykes, seemingly ignoring one side of the ball. My recollection last year is the excuse for a relative lack of skill position recruits was something like "there weren't that many guys the staff liked" plus a few misses. Okay, so you'd expect them to load up on skill players this year. But look at this years class. All kinds of D players, OL, a QB and just a couple of skill players. It's like looking at a Wisconsin class. At some point the staff has to prioritize what it doesn't have.
What names roll off the tongue on our D right now? Bynum, Weaver, Kunashyk, Palmer, Bequette, Hawkins, Davis, Rambo, Johnson .... all Dykes recruits.
Defensive coaching was perhaps the worst I have ever seen at Cal - but defensive recruiting was not the problem.
https://cal.rivals.com/commitments/football/
His five star recruit has zero receptions for the year.
His four star recruits are, by and large, busts.
He has a few three star and two star recruits that have become good players for us.
Try and sell me that that was a good job recruiting.
Virtually all of the key contributors on defense are Dykes' recruits. Way to selectively manipulate the stats.
Thanks Sonny Dykes!!!
You were great for Cal in the end.
Cupboard definitely not bare!!!!
Yogi Bear said:Constantly shuffling? They've had two full seasons and their unit was worse in Year 2 than Year 1 with most of the same players returning. They need to be held accountable for the lack of production of their unit.71Bear said:Hiring Kingsbury would be an absolute disaster, second only in the recent past, to hiring Dykes. Wilcox is on track to produce a solid winning program at Cal. Defense first, offense next. Instead of constantly shuffling coaches, the answer to "how to get better" is recruit better players and that is what Wilcox is currently trying to accomplish....tim94501 said:
Recently fired Texas Tech HC was a hell of a qb and can put points on the board with 3 star talent. Also known as a great recruiter. Baldwin can't be our OC if we are going to be an actual contender. We might win a few games but if we want to be serious about winning he can't be the guy.
We're just going to ignore that the starting QB was injured before the season started, hasn't played since the first half of week 1, and the other QBs are not even close to being average Pac-12 starting QBs? And the team has managed to win 7 games despite that.
No coaching can turn the QBs we have into Goff or Rodgers. Probably not even into Kevin Riley.
It's very likely that leaning on the "minimize mistakes and let the defense win the game" approach is the best that can be done this season. The most credible criticism of the staff's handling of the offense is that they probably should have turned to this approach at least 2 games earlier.
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