A Cal fan went to the EWU board and asked about BB. Some interesting stuff about both him and Edwards:

https://bigskyfans.com/eagles/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5768&sid=0583ab9f4374372d47a53825a5aca483

If anything the gripes they had about him sound like the ones we had about Sonny.

lol I WISH those were our Sonny gripes.

That was an interesting read. The EWU fans have two theories as to why BB has underperformed - he had more talent at EWU and/or Wilcox is handcuffing him.

The talent argument is weak. No way an FCS team consistently has more talent even if you concede that the couple seasons with Kupp, Adams, etc. were an exception. And BB had top offenses there as the playcaller for a long time.

The handcuff argument is certainly plausible and the only logical reason I could see for JW to retain BB after 2 dreadful seasons.

How is the talent argument weak? We have a walk-on running back, tight ends who drop passes, and a wr corps, half of which transferred and the other half is injured, relegating us to second and third stringers there. I would call that a significant talent deficit. With recruiting, time, and health, we will be much better across the board. My only real gripe with BB is the consistent running of our only RB, right into the pile on first down, over, and over, and over again. Other than that, I don't think play calling has been that bad. And when guys DO get open, our QB has been missing the mark more than half the time. Occasionally, a receiver makes the grab, and occasionally a pass is right on the money, but come on, we had NFL-grade quarterbacks the last few years, and healthy, talented receivers. That took the pressure off the run game. I just want the damn runs up the middle to stop. That's insane.

I think the point about talent is relative, so both posts are correct. We have more talent than ewu but relative to who we play we probably have less by comparison.

I think the talent issue is real. Unfortunately, under BB we lost all of our highly rated skill position players and haven't recruited anywhere near their talent. So both dudes have a point.

can beau baldwin recruit to get us out of the talent deficency or is he another art kaufman.

Interesting stuff.

packawana said:

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A Cal fan went to the EWU board and asked about BB. Some interesting stuff about both him and Edwards:

https://bigskyfans.com/eagles/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5768&sid=0583ab9f4374372d47a53825a5aca483

If anything the gripes they had about him sound like the ones we had about Sonny.

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Thanks to the EWU fans who posted. I think they make a lot of sense and I agree with the "lack of talent" (relative talent) comments. Time and again I see well designed plays that are not executed by the skill players.

But most of all what strikes me as amazing is that NO ONE has anything bad to say about BB (except maybe that his defense was not great).

Usually there are several malcontents who dump on the departed coach for some aspect of his coaching or his personality. I really had expected some EWU fans to say something like "Troy Taylor" was the real brains behind the offense."
This absence of malcontents says a lot about BB as a coach and as a person.

bearsandgiants said:

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How is the talent argument weak? We have a walk-on running back, tight ends who drop passes, and a wr corps, half of which transferred and the other half is injured, relegating us to second and third stringers there. I would call that a significant talent deficit. With recruiting, time, and health, we will be much better across the board. My only real gripe with BB is the consistent running of our only RB, right into the pile on first down, over, and over, and over again. Other than that, I don't think play calling has been that bad. And when guys DO get open, our QB has been missing the mark more than half the time. Occasionally, a receiver makes the grab, and occasionally a pass is right on the money, but come on, we had NFL-grade quarterbacks the last few years, and healthy, talented receivers. That took the pressure off the run game. I just want the damn runs up the middle to stop. That's insane.

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+1000

Nonsense. I have read many threads here about how much talent is on this team. Who are you going to believe? Posters on a sportsball web site, or posters on a different sportsball web site?

There's also the factor of relative recruiting, which was mentioned.

As an example, SD didn't have better recruited talent at La Tech, but compared with the respective conference foes, he was pulling Southern Cal-like classes down there. At Cal of course he was recruiting the middle of the conference to a bit below generally...

I usually see EWU recruiting classes in the top 10 for FCS teams. They recruit quite well, relatively. I realize of course EWU knocked off a few FBS and Pac-12 teams.

I agree with a lot of the "talent" argument --- strange as it seems to be saying that our P5 team has a talent deficiency compared to a (top flight) BCS team. But, in terms of offense, there is something to that argument. Vernon Adams was a P5 level QB and above our current QBs in my opinion, Cooper Kupp is obviously a highest-level WR, and we're in a situation where we had some good P5 level WRs that are mostly out with injury. So, likely across the board we have more talent in the 2-deep overall, but in some key talent positions, Beau at EWU certainly had some very high level talent.

Agree, lack of talent argument is fair because the context is now the Pac12 not FCS. At EWU BB had superior talent for the Big Sky and FCS. At Cal, not so much. In fact a couple of his guys got drafted to the NFL (Kupp and Ebukam, Rams) and are having successful careers.

If Cal has someone like Kupp at WR, offense would be better.

packawana said:

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A Cal fan went to the EWU board and asked about BB. Some interesting stuff about both him and Edwards:

https://bigskyfans.com/eagles/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5768&sid=0583ab9f4374372d47a53825a5aca483

If anything the gripes they had about him sound like the ones we had about Sonny.

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"that's probably why we didn't win more national championships"

Sounds like Sonny to me.

If you guys want to make the argument that BB is failing at Cal because the Cal offensive talent relative to the P12 is so vastly inferior to the offensive talent at EWU relative to it's peer group, then a reasonable deduction is that BB needs superior talent to win and is therefore not a good offensive coordinator.

Maybe you have an argument but Cal's offensive talent is lacking. How about if Cal gets on even footing with the rest of the Pac12 and see what's what. Injuries and lack of depth have hurt Cal. Yes, upgrades at offensive skill positions would help but Cal is way behind at this point. Get even first.

Thought the EWU fans responded with a high knowledge level, especially about Baldwin having a talent level to match his offense, and the one post about how it took some time to develop his offense. I think Baldwin is trying to run the offense he knows, and that may not be a fit to Cal's existing talent, starting with inexperienced QBs being asked to do too much. Also, at the D1 level, you need to recruit players to your system and I don't think that has happened yet at Cal on offense.

I'm not sure the gripes about defense really apply to the present situation.

Also, to clarify, Baldwin calls plays, and has a fair degree of autonomy. What he has not had is Vernon Adams type skill players.

Thanks to the OP for posting this thread and especially to the Cal fan who ventured into unfamiliar territory endured a few slings and arrows, kept his composure and conducted himself with a high level of class.

I personally found the insights valuable. It makes sense to me that the design of Baldwin's offense would require time and above average talent at key positions. He doesn't seem to have a simple system like Leach or Franklin but one that is more variable and intuitive. It makes sense that we would needs some time with a QB and some receivers of sufficient talent and intelligence to really get things rolling.

I'm in the trust the process camp. I think Beau will be good at Cal.

WSU and other teams, including their offenses, have less star power on their rosters, yet produce more. Any coach that needs top-level talent to excel is not one that I want at Cal. A coach that over-delivers in relation to recruited talent is desirable, IMO.

I'm not saying that BB should stay or go. Having the worst offense in the conference, one of the worst in FBS, is not all about who we have on our roster. We can and should be doing better.

Our offensive degradation from last year is my biggest concern. Year two, increased familiarity with the coaches and system, maturation and increased experience should have made for improvement. If we had last season's much maligned offense we'd in the Rose Bowl conversation. With an improvement, even better results possibly.

evanluck said:

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Thanks to the OP for posting this thread and especially to the Cal fan who ventured into unfamiliar territory endured a few slings and arrows, kept his composure and conducted himself with a high level of class.

I personally found the insights valuable. It makes sense to me that the design of Baldwin's offense would require time and above average talent at key positions. He doesn't seem to have a simple system like Leach or Franklin but one that is more variable and intuitive. It makes sense that we would needs some time with a QB and some receivers of sufficient talent and intelligence to really get things rolling.

I'm in the trust the process camp. I think Beau will be good at Cal.

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Hope you're right. Starting when?

evanluck said:

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Thanks to the OP for posting this thread and especially to the Cal fan who ventured into unfamiliar territory endured a few slings and arrows, kept his composure and conducted himself with a high level of class.

I personally found the insights valuable. It makes sense to me that the design of Baldwin's offense would require time and above average talent at key positions. He doesn't seem to have a simple system like Leach or Franklin but one that is more variable and intuitive. It makes sense that we would needs some time with a QB and some receivers of sufficient talent and intelligence to really get things rolling.

I'm in the trust the process camp. I think Beau will be good at Cal.

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You're welcome.

It's just the internet. I've been through far worse (on here lol).

I like the idea of continuity and recruiting to your system, but the lack of progress between last year and this year (and throughout this season) is concerning. Yes, we don't have top P12 talent but we don't have the worst talent either (which is how our offense is performing). Losing key skill players and lack of recruiting exacerbate the problem.

I like Baldwin as a person. I wish we were talking about how the offense got better over the season and some particularly exciting players he's bringing in next year. But that's not the reality we face today. It's also not to say he's a bad coach per se but hasn't taken enough steps to compete in a very difficult conference.

I haven't totally made up my mind which is why I reached out to the EWU fans. I'd probably give him 1 more season at this point.

freshfunk said:

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evanluck said:

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Thanks to the OP for posting this thread and especially to the Cal fan who ventured into unfamiliar territory endured a few slings and arrows, kept his composure and conducted himself with a high level of class.

I personally found the insights valuable. It makes sense to me that the design of Baldwin's offense would require time and above average talent at key positions. He doesn't seem to have a simple system like Leach or Franklin but one that is more variable and intuitive. It makes sense that we would needs some time with a QB and some receivers of sufficient talent and intelligence to really get things rolling.

I'm in the trust the process camp. I think Beau will be good at Cal.

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You're welcome.

It's just the internet. I've been through far worse (on here lol).

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You deserved it!



LOL

wifeisafurd said:

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I think Baldwin is trying to run the offense he knows, and that may not be a fit to Cal's existing talent, starting with inexperienced QBs being asked to do too much. Also, at the D1 level, you need to recruit players to your system and I don't think that has happened yet at Cal on offense.

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This is an astute point. SD's offense was unique and left us in a precarious situation relative to transitioning to a different system.

tequila4kapp said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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I think Baldwin is trying to run the offense he knows, and that may not be a fit to Cal's existing talent, starting with inexperienced QBs being asked to do too much. Also, at the D1 level, you need to recruit players to your system and I don't think that has happened yet at Cal on offense.

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This is an astute point. SD's offense was unique and left us in a precarious situation relative to transitioning to a different system.

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And this is why BB tried BMac several times. Unfortunately it didn't work out. Despite not working, it was worthy bet.

GivemTheAxe said:

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Time and again I see well designed plays that are not executed by the skill players.

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You and I are seeing different things.

NYCGOBEARS said:

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freshfunk said:

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evanluck said:

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Thanks to the OP for posting this thread and especially to the Cal fan who ventured into unfamiliar territory endured a few slings and arrows, kept his composure and conducted himself with a high level of class.

I personally found the insights valuable. It makes sense to me that the design of Baldwin's offense would require time and above average talent at key positions. He doesn't seem to have a simple system like Leach or Franklin but one that is more variable and intuitive. It makes sense that we would needs some time with a QB and some receivers of sufficient talent and intelligence to really get things rolling.

I'm in the trust the process camp. I think Beau will be good at Cal.

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You're welcome.

It's just the internet. I've been through far worse (on here lol).

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You deserved it!



LOL

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Was getting rid of Sonny the right move? #clowntown

freshfunk said:

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NYCGOBEARS said:

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freshfunk said:

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evanluck said:

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Thanks to the OP for posting this thread and especially to the Cal fan who ventured into unfamiliar territory endured a few slings and arrows, kept his composure and conducted himself with a high level of class.

I personally found the insights valuable. It makes sense to me that the design of Baldwin's offense would require time and above average talent at key positions. He doesn't seem to have a simple system like Leach or Franklin but one that is more variable and intuitive. It makes sense that we would needs some time with a QB and some receivers of sufficient talent and intelligence to really get things rolling.

I'm in the trust the process camp. I think Beau will be good at Cal.

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You're welcome.

It's just the internet. I've been through far worse (on here lol).

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You deserved it!



LOL

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Was getting rid of Sonny the right move? #clowntown

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Hahaha... oh yeah. It was.

tequila4kapp said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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I think Baldwin is trying to run the offense he knows, and that may not be a fit to Cal's existing talent, starting with inexperienced QBs being asked to do too much. Also, at the D1 level, you need to recruit players to your system and I don't think that has happened yet at Cal on offense.

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This is an astute point. SD's offense was unique and left us in a precarious situation relative to transitioning to a different system.

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Wouldn't that then raise the question of why not hire an OC whose system was similar enough to the Bear (Air) Raid in order to minimize the learning curve during the transition? IIRC, some folks on here suggested that Baldwin's offense was similar to the Bear Raid, and Baldwin never fully refuted that, though he insisted his system was "multiple" and not a true Air Raid.

If the OC can't tailor his offense to the talent he has and can't coach up the players he has to match the offense he wants to run, why should Cal keep him? Merely because of the hope that he will be able to pull in recruits whose talents match his offense? What offensive skilled players has he recruited successfully to suggest he'll have any sort of success at that going forward?

Honestly, Baldwin is looking more and more like the offensive equivalent of Kaufman.

Yogi Bear said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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Time and again I see well designed plays that are not executed by the skill players.

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You and I are seeing different things.

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Agreed. Time and again I see predictable, poorly designed plays getting destroyed by the defense. I see some of our best weapons on the bench. I see one or two well designed plays a game, usually succeeding, but occasionally not due to a drop, bad throw etc. I see our QBs improvising and making a lot of plays with their feet to get rare first downs (or nearly if they slide too soon).

That seems like a very angry group over at EWU. It was bizarre how they immediately jumped all over a guy asking a pretty innocent question. And then the weird, "those thoughts are for family and this guy isn't family" thing? Felt like I was reading a deleted scene from Deliverance.

Of course, I'm guessing they are still a bit bitter over Baldwin leaving them. It must be like some guy who stole your smoking hot girlfriend that you were head over heels in love with coming up to you and saying "Did you ever notice how her left pinky toe is not perfectly symmetrical with her right pinky toe? Yeah, that kind of turns me off. Think I may have to give Margot Robbie a call . . . "

tequila4kapp said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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I think Baldwin is trying to run the offense he knows, and that may not be a fit to Cal's existing talent, starting with inexperienced QBs being asked to do too much. Also, at the D1 level, you need to recruit players to your system and I don't think that has happened yet at Cal on offense.

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This is an astute point. SD's offense was unique and left us in a precarious situation relative to transitioning to a different system.

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This is an astute point. From one extreme to the other makes for a difficult transition for coaches and players.

Sebastabear said:

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That seems like a very angry group over at EWU. It was bizarre how they immediately jumped all over a guy asking a pretty innocent question. And then the weird, "those thoughts are for family and this guy isn't family" thing? Felt like I was reading a deleted scene from Deliverance.

Of course, I'm guessing they are still a bit bitter over Baldwin leaving them. It must be like some guy who stole your smoking hot girlfriend that you were head over heels in love with coming up to you and saying "Did you ever notice how her left pinky toe is not perfectly symmetrical with her right pinky toe? Yeah, that kind of turns me off. Think I may have to give Margot Robbie a call . . . "

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If we are going for an Aussie transfer, can I propose Yvonne Strahovski. Better athlete, and can kick some butt, all while having a nice butt. Part of Wilcox's goal to toughen the team.


Yvonne Strahovski Is a Bear-Fighting Badass - RealClearLifewww.realclearlife.com/women/yvonne-strahovski-handmaids-tale-predator/

Bring in Paul Johnson and run the option with the guys we have. We'd probably do better than 1 yard and a cloud of dust. I bet he could do it without the right players for his system.