Interesting phenomenon. Fortunately we never have to worry.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2811575-justin-fields-transfer-from-georgia-is-the-latest-in-cfbs-5-star-qb-curse?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral

More a case that there is almost no way to measure in high school the skills a successful QB really needs. All you know from high school and camps are arm strength, speed and some idea of accuracy. The biggest thing you don't know is can the guy 'throw receivers open' especially when they look well covered. And can he do it under pressure and against faster DBs.

I just think the odds are overwhelmingly against any quarterback succeeding, 5 stars no exception.

82gradDLSdad said:

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More a case that there is almost no way to measure in high school the skills a successful QB really needs. All you know from high school and camps are arm strength, speed and some idea of accuracy. The biggest thing you don't know is can the guy 'throw receivers open' especially when they look well covered. And can he do it under pressure and against faster DBs.

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If all we know is arm strength - why have our last couple QBs not have any? Serious question - when you look at highlights, you see it...how does it all just vanish? Garbers throws so many flutter balls.

tenplay said:

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Interesting phenomenon. Fortunately we never have to worry.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2811575-justin-fields-transfer-from-georgia-is-the-latest-in-cfbs-5-star-qb-curse?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral

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Note the reference to Davis Mills. Anyone care to guess how many 4 or 5 star QBs Furd has had transfer since Andrew Luck left campus? Talk about a team underutilizing talent.

5 star QBs tend to go to 5 star programs that recruit other 5 star talent in classes before, during and after these athletes join. Turns out there is only one QB who can play and there is no guarantee you will be that guy.

well, he couldn't beat out Jacob Fromm, another 5 star QB.

plenty of 5 star qb's have been the #1 pick. Matt Stafford, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, Jameis Winston.

plenty of busts just like all the other positions. ex. Villiami Moala

82gradDLSdad said:

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More a case that there is almost no way to measure in high school the skills a successful QB really needs. All you know from high school and camps are arm strength, speed and some idea of accuracy. The biggest thing you don't know is can the guy 'throw receivers open' especially when they look well covered. And can he do it under pressure and against faster DBs.

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Here is a comment from Urban Meyer culled from an article in the The Athletic...

"Every great quarterback - and we've had great ones - the No. 1 characteristic is competitive spirit. No. 2 is toughness. No. 3 is ability to lead. No. 4 is intelligence. No. 5 is ability to extend a play. Notice I never said anything about arm strength or delivery."

Those remarks are very similiar to comments made by Jeff Tedford in an interview that Chris Avery and I conducted as part of our research for an article we wrote for BI many years ago.

71Bear said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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More a case that there is almost no way to measure in high school the skills a successful QB really needs. All you know from high school and camps are arm strength, speed and some idea of accuracy. The biggest thing you don't know is can the guy 'throw receivers open' especially when they look well covered. And can he do it under pressure and against faster DBs.

---

Here is a comment from Urban Meyer culled from an article in the The Athletic...

"Every great quarterback - and we've had great ones - the No. 1 characteristic is competitive spirit. No. 2 is toughness. No. 3 is ability to lead. No. 4 is intelligence. No. 5 is ability to extend a play. Notice I never said anything about arm strength or delivery."

Those remarks are very similiar to comments made by Jeff Tedford in an interview that Chris Avery and I conducted as part of our research for an article we wrote for BI many years ago.

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So a 5'3" player with high competitive spirit, toughness, ability to leave and intelligence has most, if not all, of the building blocks of an excellent quarterback? (Sure, maybe at the pee wee level... )

No. The potentially successful QB has to meet a BUNCH of minimum benchmarks to have any hope to succeed. Height, body mass, good throwing motion, strong upper and lower body, good mechanics, physical prowess and a bunch more. So as long as you meet THESE criteria first, and THEN Meyer's list, you probably have all the ingredients to be a successful and talented QB. "Never saying anything about arm strength" means all of his potential players already have this trait; it's assumed they all already have it.

I'd argue a big issue here is the emergence of the QB industry, tutors, camps, 7 on 7, Elite 11, etc. The "industry" can produce great looking QBs...like shiny apples in the supermarket that look great but taste like crap. They look the part, have all the measurable except the glue (the stuff Meyer and Tedford talk about) to hold it together and make it work and get them to truly elite.

These kids then play on super teams where they get 5 seconds to make a throw to good talent. When the talent evens out or rises (like in the NFL) that's not actually helpful to a QB. Many have mentioned Goff getting less than 2 seconds at Cal being part of why he's good in the NFL. Makes sense. So if a kid is use to 5 seconds, the next level is going to be a surprise. I'd say this also happens from HS to college, and college to the NFL, but in all aspects of the game (it's much faster).

Certainly tutors and camps can help a kid and the QB industry isn't going away but it can't teach those internal mental things, the fire, the gamer gene. Frankly I'd say many QBs have been coddled since HS or earlier and it doesn't help. Conversely, look at the best QB in the NFL, Aaron Rodgers. It appears he's mostly an organically grown QB. I mean did he ever go to a QB camp in HS? He certainly wasn't a big time recruit. On that note, I'd say the great futbol players in the world (Messi, Ronaldo), were also organic.

Then there's the pressure and expectations.

TandemBear said:

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71Bear said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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More a case that there is almost no way to measure in high school the skills a successful QB really needs. All you know from high school and camps are arm strength, speed and some idea of accuracy. The biggest thing you don't know is can the guy 'throw receivers open' especially when they look well covered. And can he do it under pressure and against faster DBs.

---

Here is a comment from Urban Meyer culled from an article in the The Athletic...

"Every great quarterback - and we've had great ones - the No. 1 characteristic is competitive spirit. No. 2 is toughness. No. 3 is ability to lead. No. 4 is intelligence. No. 5 is ability to extend a play. Notice I never said anything about arm strength or delivery."

Those remarks are very similiar to comments made by Jeff Tedford in an interview that Chris Avery and I conducted as part of our research for an article we wrote for BI many years ago.

---

So a 5'3" player with high competitive spirit, toughness, ability to leave and intelligence has most, if not all, of the building blocks of an excellent quarterback? (Sure, maybe at the pee wee level... )

No. The potentially successful QB has to meet a BUNCH of minimum benchmarks to have any hope to succeed. Height, body mass, good throwing motion, strong upper and lower body, good mechanics, physical prowess and a bunch more. So as long as you meet THESE criteria first, and THEN Meyer's list, you probably have all the ingredients to be a successful and talented QB. "Never saying anything about arm strength" means all of his potential players already have this trait; it's assumed they all already have it.

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With all due respect, I would suggest that a three-time national championship coach knows a bit more about what constitutes a winning QB than you.

Heck, you are the guy who suggested that college should consider a draft without understanding the labor implications of such a statement.

71Bear said:

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TandemBear said:

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71Bear said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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More a case that there is almost no way to measure in high school the skills a successful QB really needs. All you know from high school and camps are arm strength, speed and some idea of accuracy. The biggest thing you don't know is can the guy 'throw receivers open' especially when they look well covered. And can he do it under pressure and against faster DBs.

---

Here is a comment from Urban Meyer culled from an article in the The Athletic...

"Every great quarterback - and we've had great ones - the No. 1 characteristic is competitive spirit. No. 2 is toughness. No. 3 is ability to lead. No. 4 is intelligence. No. 5 is ability to extend a play. Notice I never said anything about arm strength or delivery."

Those remarks are very similiar to comments made by Jeff Tedford in an interview that Chris Avery and I conducted as part of our research for an article we wrote for BI many years ago.

---

So a 5'3" player with high competitive spirit, toughness, ability to leave and intelligence has most, if not all, of the building blocks of an excellent quarterback? (Sure, maybe at the pee wee level... )

No. The potentially successful QB has to meet a BUNCH of minimum benchmarks to have any hope to succeed. Height, body mass, good throwing motion, strong upper and lower body, good mechanics, physical prowess and a bunch more. So as long as you meet THESE criteria first, and THEN Meyer's list, you probably have all the ingredients to be a successful and talented QB. "Never saying anything about arm strength" means all of his potential players already have this trait; it's assumed they all already have it.

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With all due respect, I would suggest that a three-time national championship coach knows a bit more about what constitutes a winning QB than you.

Heck, you are the guy who suggested that college should consider a draft without understanding the labor implications of such a statement.

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Or you could simply address my post, which has merit. He fails to concede the minimum qualities of a top level QB are assumed... and then those with the additional criteria he mentions are the players that stand out. Again, the small QB without the attributes I mention won't succeed if they only have Meyer's list of attributes. A reasonable post if you ask me.

You could try addressing that, instead of being a jerk. "All due respect?" Could you be any more patronizing?

And yes, I'll stick to my suggestion about a draft, because as it is now, I'm finding less and less reason to have much interest in college ball that rewards the winners (with money and players) and punishes the also-rans. I guess I naively assumed Cal had a fighting chance to make something of its renewed facilities and massive budget. I thought college ball was competitive where hard work pays off.

I referred to the other pro sports as an example of how parity is pursued. But so many other professional competitions do it as well. Auto racing has specific limits on technology and displacement so that winning isn't decided by the teams with the biggest budgets. Cycling does this too - bikes must meet a minimum weight (Armstrong's bike had 1.5 lbs. added to it one year.) so that the playing field is 'somewhat' level. In other words, money doesn't have the ability to create the competitive edge.

Well, money and status in college ball absolutely creates the competitive edge. If Cal had Alabama's last four recruiting classes, we'd probably be winning the conference outright and challenging on the national stage. This much is clear.

The way it is now, no amount of hard work will matter when you're picking from the proverbial "bottom of the barrel." Sure, there are exceptions, but they don't make the rule. Another 60 years without a conference championship would be utter futility. Might as well pack it in. Perhaps only long-suffering Cal fans can offer this perspective. I know my dad wanted to see one more Rose Bowl, but he, like so many others, didn't get that wish.

71Bear said:

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Here is a comment from Urban Meyer culled from an article in the The Athletic...

"Every great quarterback - and we've had great ones - the No. 1 characteristic is competitive spirit. No. 2 is toughness. No. 3 is ability to lead. No. 4 is intelligence. No. 5 is ability to extend a play. Notice I never said anything about arm strength or delivery."

Those remarks are very similiar to comments made by Jeff Tedford in an interview that Chris Avery and I conducted as part of our research for an article we wrote for BI many years ago.

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I don't agree with any of that. As for Tedford, what would he know about identifying good QB's when he recruited bust after bust for us?

I side with Mike Leach on this question:
http://www.espn.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/35105/mike-leach-talks-quarterbacks-philosophy

Yogi Bear said:

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71Bear said:

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Here is a comment from Urban Meyer culled from an article in the The Athletic...

"Every great quarterback - and we've had great ones - the No. 1 characteristic is competitive spirit. No. 2 is toughness. No. 3 is ability to lead. No. 4 is intelligence. No. 5 is ability to extend a play. Notice I never said anything about arm strength or delivery."

Those remarks are very similiar to comments made by Jeff Tedford in an interview that Chris Avery and I conducted as part of our research for an article we wrote for BI many years ago.

---

I don't agree with any of that. As for Tedford, what would he know about identifying good QB's when he recruited bust after bust for us?

I side with Mike Leach on this question:
http://www.espn.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/35105/mike-leach-talks-quarterbacks-philosophy

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Tedford found Aaron Rodgers. He also help get like 6-7 QBs into the NFL. He knows what he's doing. Turning around Fresno says so too.

"So a 5'3" player with high competitive spirit, toughness, ability to leave and intelligence has most, if not all, of the building blocks of an excellent quarterback? (Sure, maybe at the pee wee level... )"

In terms of critical thinking (or lack thereof), this is one of the goofiest comments that I have seen.

Another Bear said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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71Bear said:

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Here is a comment from Urban Meyer culled from an article in the The Athletic...

"Every great quarterback - and we've had great ones - the No. 1 characteristic is competitive spirit. No. 2 is toughness. No. 3 is ability to lead. No. 4 is intelligence. No. 5 is ability to extend a play. Notice I never said anything about arm strength or delivery."

Those remarks are very similiar to comments made by Jeff Tedford in an interview that Chris Avery and I conducted as part of our research for an article we wrote for BI many years ago.

---

I don't agree with any of that. As for Tedford, what would he know about identifying good QB's when he recruited bust after bust for us?

I side with Mike Leach on this question:
http://www.espn.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/35105/mike-leach-talks-quarterbacks-philosophy

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Tedford found Aaron Rodgers. He also help get like 6-7 QBs into the NFL. He knows what he's doing. Turning around Fresno says so too.

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Mike Williams hired Justin Wilcox. He must be good at hiring coaches.

Yogi Bear said:

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Another Bear said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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71Bear said:

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Here is a comment from Urban Meyer culled from an article in the The Athletic...

"Every great quarterback - and we've had great ones - the No. 1 characteristic is competitive spirit. No. 2 is toughness. No. 3 is ability to lead. No. 4 is intelligence. No. 5 is ability to extend a play. Notice I never said anything about arm strength or delivery."

Those remarks are very similiar to comments made by Jeff Tedford in an interview that Chris Avery and I conducted as part of our research for an article we wrote for BI many years ago.

---

I don't agree with any of that. As for Tedford, what would he know about identifying good QB's when he recruited bust after bust for us?

I side with Mike Leach on this question:
http://www.espn.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/35105/mike-leach-talks-quarterbacks-philosophy

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Tedford found Aaron Rodgers. He also help get like 6-7 QBs into the NFL. He knows what he's doing. Turning around Fresno says so too.

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Mike Williams hired Justin Wilcox. He must be good at hiring coaches.

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Don't be an idiot. Hiring is DIFFERENT from coaching...and Williams made a great hire.

Another Bear said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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Another Bear said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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71Bear said:

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Here is a comment from Urban Meyer culled from an article in the The Athletic...

"Every great quarterback - and we've had great ones - the No. 1 characteristic is competitive spirit. No. 2 is toughness. No. 3 is ability to lead. No. 4 is intelligence. No. 5 is ability to extend a play. Notice I never said anything about arm strength or delivery."

Those remarks are very similiar to comments made by Jeff Tedford in an interview that Chris Avery and I conducted as part of our research for an article we wrote for BI many years ago.

---

I don't agree with any of that. As for Tedford, what would he know about identifying good QB's when he recruited bust after bust for us?

I side with Mike Leach on this question:
http://www.espn.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/35105/mike-leach-talks-quarterbacks-philosophy

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Tedford found Aaron Rodgers. He also help get like 6-7 QBs into the NFL. He knows what he's doing. Turning around Fresno says so too.

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Mike Williams hired Justin Wilcox. He must be good at hiring coaches.

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Don't be an idiot. Hiring is DIFFERENT from coaching...and Williams made a great hire.

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You're the one who started with the "Person 1 once did something good, therefore he must be an expert on the topic." Just turning your logic back on you. You don't like it, maybe you shouldn't use it.

Tedford had 3 times as many busts while at Cal as he did good QB's. Probably more than that. He is horrible when it comes to prioritizing which qualities are most important in a QB.

Yogi Bear said:

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Another Bear said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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71Bear said:

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Here is a comment from Urban Meyer culled from an article in the The Athletic...

"Every great quarterback - and we've had great ones - the No. 1 characteristic is competitive spirit. No. 2 is toughness. No. 3 is ability to lead. No. 4 is intelligence. No. 5 is ability to extend a play. Notice I never said anything about arm strength or delivery."

Those remarks are very similiar to comments made by Jeff Tedford in an interview that Chris Avery and I conducted as part of our research for an article we wrote for BI many years ago.

---

I don't agree with any of that. As for Tedford, what would he know about identifying good QB's when he recruited bust after bust for us?

I side with Mike Leach on this question:
http://www.espn.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/35105/mike-leach-talks-quarterbacks-philosophy

---

Tedford found Aaron Rodgers. He also help get like 6-7 QBs into the NFL. He knows what he's doing. Turning around Fresno says so too.

---

Mike Williams hired Justin Wilcox. He must be good at hiring (football) coaches.

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FIFY....

71Bear said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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Another Bear said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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71Bear said:

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Here is a comment from Urban Meyer culled from an article in the The Athletic...

"Every great quarterback - and we've had great ones - the No. 1 characteristic is competitive spirit. No. 2 is toughness. No. 3 is ability to lead. No. 4 is intelligence. No. 5 is ability to extend a play. Notice I never said anything about arm strength or delivery."

Those remarks are very similiar to comments made by Jeff Tedford in an interview that Chris Avery and I conducted as part of our research for an article we wrote for BI many years ago.

---

I don't agree with any of that. As for Tedford, what would he know about identifying good QB's when he recruited bust after bust for us?

I side with Mike Leach on this question:
http://www.espn.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/35105/mike-leach-talks-quarterbacks-philosophy

---

Tedford found Aaron Rodgers. He also help get like 6-7 QBs into the NFL. He knows what he's doing. Turning around Fresno says so too.

---

Mike Williams hired Justin Wilcox. He must be good at hiring (football) coaches.

---

FIFY....

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Broken clocks are occasionally right

I don't think we've seen nearly enough of Justin Fields to know how good a quarterback he can become. In the very limited opportunities he looked pretty good. Smart wasn't going bench Fromm no matter how impressive Fields looked. And I'm not surprised he choose Georgia. He grew up in Georgia and probably dreamed of playing there. When you're the No 1 recruit you think you're going to compete and win the job.That's the mindset. You really never know how these things are going to work out. If Eason hadn't gotten hurt, Fromm may have been stuck on the bench and transferred before Fields even got there. These superstar athletes don't think like we think, or like the writer thinks. They think they can go in, compete and win the job. Did Najee Harris think he would still be third string at Alabama. Probably not. Now the nation's No.1 high school running back (Trey Sanders) is heading to Alabama. Does he anticipate playing behind Najee Harris. Probably not.

Another Bear said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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71Bear said:

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Here is a comment from Urban Meyer culled from an article in the The Athletic...

"Every great quarterback - and we've had great ones - the No. 1 characteristic is competitive spirit. No. 2 is toughness. No. 3 is ability to lead. No. 4 is intelligence. No. 5 is ability to extend a play. Notice I never said anything about arm strength or delivery."

Those remarks are very similiar to comments made by Jeff Tedford in an interview that Chris Avery and I conducted as part of our research for an article we wrote for BI many years ago.

---

I don't agree with any of that. As for Tedford, what would he know about identifying good QB's when he recruited bust after bust for us?

I side with Mike Leach on this question:
http://www.espn.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/35105/mike-leach-talks-quarterbacks-philosophy

---

Tedford found Aaron Rodgers. He also help get like 6-7 QBs into the NFL. He knows what he's doing. Turning around Fresno says so too.

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Tedford was at Cal 11 years. He brought in at least 11 QBs from HS (brobably more) and at least 3 as transfers from JC or other programs. He inherited 2 from Holmoe.

As far as QBs who were ever on a NFL roster:

He was 0 of 11 on his own signed HS recruits.

He was 1 of 3 on his transfers.

He was 2 of 2 with Holmoe's players.

1 out of 14 is not great evaluation. But it is good that stumbling upon the best QB of our generation he recognized the talent. Rodgers was starting within two months of his arrival on campus.

His work with Boller and Robertson who he inherited and his finding Rodgers were his biggest successes. Unfortunately that got us through the first 3 of his 11 years. Over the next 8 years he never signed/developed a QB that would make an NFL roster.

He talks about confidence, and a bunch of his guys had it coming in, but most lost it along the way.

Not sure about his FSU QBs, did he recruit them or inherit them?

calumnus said:

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He talks about confidence, and a bunch of his guys had it coming in, but most lost it along the way.

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He played an active role in them losing confidence in most cases.

The minimum weight for bikes is not about parity, but rather safety. The UCI, the governing body of cycling, does not care about parity one bit as Team Sky's budget allows them to buy up the best riders. Their budget is double the average budget of World Tour teams.

BearOnABike said:

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The minimum weight for bikes is not about parity, but rather safety. The UCI, the governing body of cycling, does not care about parity one bit as Team Sky's budget allows them to buy up the best riders. Their budget is double the average budget of World Tour teams.

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Given that 2019 is the last year Sky will sponsor a team, it will be interesting to see if someone else steps up or whether the team is disbanded. I think Froome might call it quits if the team is split up. Of course, anyone interested in pro cycling has to wonder about the future of Egan Bernal. He signed a five year deal with Sky last year and is a future superstar.....

Many inside the sport seem to think it will be very difficult to find a sponsor that can match the current budget, but Brailsford is a bit of a snake charmer, so I wouldn't be surprised if he does. I'd like to see them find a sponsor, but with a budget more on par with the other teams. I think Froome continues for another year regardless of the outcome of the sponsor search as he wants to win a 5th TDF.

fat_slice said:

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If all we know is arm strength - why have our last couple QBs not have any? Serious question - when you look at highlights, you see it...how does it all just vanish? Garbers throws so many flutter balls.

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It results from Garbers' lack of confidence - he's been trying too hard to avoid errant throws, which paradoxically results in exactly the passes you describe.