Another Bear said:

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This is true but among the aspiring 3.5%ers where your kid goes to college is about social standing, the parents not the kids.

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"3.5" percenter? Is this a meme or an inside joke I haven't caught on to? Why not 1% or 5% or 10%?

SC is having a moment.

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-new-usc-doctor-sued-20190212-story.html

71Bear said:

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okaydo said:

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It's amazing how true this is. (I'm sure many here will disagree, particularly those with advanced degrees.)

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It is absolutely true.

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I'll only speak for the profession I know, but it absolutely matters for your first job after law school (after that, it doesn't matter).

I also imagine that what medical school you go to might determine residency placement.

NYCGOBEARS said:

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SC is everything we've always accused them of and more.

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ducky23 said:

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71Bear said:

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okaydo said:

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It's amazing how true this is. (I'm sure many here will disagree, particularly those with advanced degrees.)

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It is absolutely true.

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I'll only speak for the profession I know, but it absolutely matters for your first job after law school (after that, it doesn't matter).

I also imagine that what medical school you go to might determine residency placement.

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Employment statistics demonstrate that it matters a lot. Obviously the more work experience you get, the less your college matters. I tend to think people that say it doesn't matter are just far removed from the time in their lives when it really did.

This story is the gift that keeps on giving....

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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Another Bear said:

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This is true but among the aspiring 3.5%ers where your kid goes to college is about social standing, the parents not the kids.

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"3.5" percenter? Is this a meme or an inside joke I haven't caught on to? Why not 1% or 5% or 10%?

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Odd numbers always gain more attention. Want people to remember something, set an odd number or time.

Staff meeting: 2:41 p.m....be there.

Okay seriously, a 1%er is likely already connected and doesn't need to drop a bribe, instead make a few phone calls. 5%, too low to drop $500k. Okay I"m pulling stuff out of my. *$%*@(^.

okaydo said:

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Another Bear said:

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This is true but among the aspiring 3.5%ers where your kid goes to college is about social standing, the parents not the kids.

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1. I'm glad that my parents didn't really have friends. Or high class friends. My dad has no friends. My mom's closest friend was on welfare (who faked her address to send her son to Beverly Hills High).

2. Despite my mom being Asian, she was the opposite of a Tiger mom.

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I'm 3 of 5 kids. By the time it got to me the attitude was, "if you're not arrested and get out of here, we're good.". My dad was surprised I got into Cal, didn't think I could. He never told me to my face but my mom mentioned it.

BearSD said:

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This story is the gift that keeps on giving....

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Ouch.

But I am doing my best not to slide into too much schadenfreude. Scandal can and will come to Cal again at some point. We had the football-academic fraud scandal in the late 90's, a rash of sexual harassment/assault scandals, etc. Admission to Cal is very competitive, our coaches aren't paid that well given the cost of living (and everyone is susceptible to the temptation of money), and rich alums don't have "legal" ways of buying admission for their kids. So all the ingredients are there. You really just need a coach to whom $25,000 looks very tempting and who can make the rationalization, Heck, what's the harm? The kid gets admission, suffers a strange injury like bone spurs, and then they're off the team before the first practice. And then once the coach starts using the extra cash to buy stuff s/he can't really afford, s/he's looking for the next $25K.

UCBerkGrad said:

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Why is this a scandal? Elite private schools have been admitting students when daddy donates a new library to the school. Has been happening for 100+ years.

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It's a scandal because it is dishonest and is done mostly through phony athletic help. So it takes down the dignity of all those who play it straight. Newport Beach guy named Singer is the go through...$25M involved.

Sebastabear said:

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If you slightly tweaked this scheme and had the money going directly to the universities (as opposed to individual coaches and middlemen) and took out the fake test scores you could literally arrest entire ZIP Codes in Connecticut and the Silicon Valley.

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Exactly what I was thinking. Surprised that some of these folks didn't just make the donation and buy a spot. I've had arguments with a lot of people on this issue. Personally, if somebody is willing to donate REAL money - mid to high 8 figures - to a school, then I think there's benefit to the student body as a whole and I have no problem with it. OTOH, when somebody buys a spot with $500K to $1M or so, I don't see how that can pay tuition for another kid or two over the long haul.

Sebasta would know more than I would, but my sense is that since Cal is a public school, it's much more difficult to buy a spot since there's supposed to be more transparency on the admissions process.

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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BearSD said:

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This story is the gift that keeps on giving....

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Ouch.

But I am doing my best not to slide into too much schadenfreude. Scandal can and will come to Cal again at some point. We had the football-academic fraud scandal in the late 90's, a rash of sexual harassment/assault scandals, etc. Admission to Cal is very competitive, our coaches aren't paid that well given the cost of living (and everyone is susceptible to the temptation of money), and rich alums don't have "legal" ways of buying admission for their kids. So all the ingredients are there. You really just need a coach to whom $25,000 looks very tempting and who can make the rationalization, Heck, what's the harm? The kid gets admission, suffers a strange injury like bone spurs, and then they're off the team before the first practice. And then once the coach starts using the extra cash to buy stuff s/he can't really afford, s/he's looking for the next $25K.

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I wonder how easy it is to do this here, given that admissions turns away players in FB and BB that actually play the sport!

Video of the DOJ announcement.

OaktownBear said:

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ducky23 said:

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71Bear said:

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okaydo said:

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It's amazing how true this is. (I'm sure many here will disagree, particularly those with advanced degrees.)

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It is absolutely true.

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I'll only speak for the profession I know, but it absolutely matters for your first job after law school (after that, it doesn't matter).

I also imagine that what medical school you go to might determine residency placement.

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Employment statistics demonstrate that it matters a lot. Obviously the more work experience you get, the less your college matters. I tend to think people that say it doesn't matter are just far removed from the time in their lives when it really did.

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100% on this. All you have to do is check the bios in the NY Times and elsewhere and it's always interesting to see that their alma mater is mentioned if it's a sexy school, but isn't if they went to a plan wrap public or private school.

juarezbear said:

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OaktownBear said:

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ducky23 said:

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71Bear said:

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okaydo said:

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It's amazing how true this is. (I'm sure many here will disagree, particularly those with advanced degrees.)

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It is absolutely true.

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I'll only speak for the profession I know, but it absolutely matters for your first job after law school (after that, it doesn't matter).

I also imagine that what medical school you go to might determine residency placement.

---

Employment statistics demonstrate that it matters a lot. Obviously the more work experience you get, the less your college matters. I tend to think people that say it doesn't matter are just far removed from the time in their lives when it really did.

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100% on this. All you have to do is check the bios in the NY Times and elsewhere and it's always interesting to see that their alma mater is mentioned if it's a sexy school, but isn't if they went to a plan wrap public or private school.

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Further to this, it's also the kids one meets at the top schools. The better the school, the better the network if one chooses to mine those relationships. I can say from personal experience that my UC contacts didn't help me in my business (movie production), but people definitely took notice of my Cal degree on my resume in the early days. Now that I'm established, it's amazing how many other Cal grads I come across and now have a relationship with.

socaliganbear said:

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FuzzyWuzzy said:

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BearSD said:

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This story is the gift that keeps on giving....

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Ouch.

But I am doing my best not to slide into too much schadenfreude. Scandal can and will come to Cal again at some point. We had the football-academic fraud scandal in the late 90's, a rash of sexual harassment/assault scandals, etc. Admission to Cal is very competitive, our coaches aren't paid that well given the cost of living (and everyone is susceptible to the temptation of money), and rich alums don't have "legal" ways of buying admission for their kids. So all the ingredients are there. You really just need a coach to whom $25,000 looks very tempting and who can make the rationalization, Heck, what's the harm? The kid gets admission, suffers a strange injury like bone spurs, and then they're off the team before the first practice. And then once the coach starts using the extra cash to buy stuff s/he can't really afford, s/he's looking for the next $25K.

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I wonder how easy it is to do this here, given that admissions turns away players in FB and BB that actually play the sport!

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It's the kids who get in as PWO's and have decent grades and SATs in all sports. You'd be surprised how many slots there are for PWO's.

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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BearSD said:

---

This story is the gift that keeps on giving....

---

Ouch.

But I am doing my best not to slide into too much schadenfreude. Scandal can and will come to Cal again at some point. We had the football-academic fraud scandal in the late 90's, a rash of sexual harassment/assault scandals, etc. Admission to Cal is very competitive, our coaches aren't paid that well given the cost of living (and everyone is susceptible to the temptation of money), and rich alums don't have "legal" ways of buying admission for their kids. So all the ingredients are there. You really just need a coach to whom $25,000 looks very tempting and who can make the rationalization, Heck, what's the harm? The kid gets admission, suffers a strange injury like bone spurs, and then they're off the team before the first practice. And then once the coach starts using the extra cash to buy stuff s/he can't really afford, s/he's looking for the next $25K.

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I knew this post was coming! Whoah is Cal.

USC's been having a rough past 2 years. One scandal after another. Non-stop. And not small time ncaa scandals either. But the type of scandals that send people to jail.

hanky1 said:

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USC's been having a rough past 2 years. One scandal after another. Non-stop. And not small time ncaa scandals either. But the type of scandals that send people to jail.

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I concur!

OaktownBear said:

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ducky23 said:

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71Bear said:

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okaydo said:

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It's amazing how true this is. (I'm sure many here will disagree, particularly those with advanced degrees.)

---

It is absolutely true.

---

I'll only speak for the profession I know, but it absolutely matters for your first job after law school (after that, it doesn't matter).

I also imagine that what medical school you go to might determine residency placement.

---

Employment statistics demonstrate that it matters a lot. Obviously the more work experience you get, the less your college matters. I tend to think people that say it doesn't matter are just far removed from the time in their lives when it really did.

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Speaking as someone who was responsible for hiring people into professional positions, I can say unequivocally that the college of choice did not matter. The only question regarding educational background was do you have a degree not where did you attend college. The interviews I conducted confirmed that those with degrees from Cal, Stanford, UCLA, etc. were no better than interviews with candidates from less "elite" schools. It isn't where you went to school, it is what you did after you graduated.

Having said that, I would agree that it matters in the areas of law, medicine and engineering but otherwise, nope....

juarezbear said:

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socaliganbear said:

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FuzzyWuzzy said:

---

BearSD said:

---

This story is the gift that keeps on giving....

---

Ouch.

But I am doing my best not to slide into too much schadenfreude. Scandal can and will come to Cal again at some point. We had the football-academic fraud scandal in the late 90's, a rash of sexual harassment/assault scandals, etc. Admission to Cal is very competitive, our coaches aren't paid that well given the cost of living (and everyone is susceptible to the temptation of money), and rich alums don't have "legal" ways of buying admission for their kids. So all the ingredients are there. You really just need a coach to whom $25,000 looks very tempting and who can make the rationalization, Heck, what's the harm? The kid gets admission, suffers a strange injury like bone spurs, and then they're off the team before the first practice. And then once the coach starts using the extra cash to buy stuff s/he can't really afford, s/he's looking for the next $25K.

---

I wonder how easy it is to do this here, given that admissions turns away players in FB and BB that actually play the sport!

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It's the kids who get in as PWO's and have decent grades and SATs in all sports. You'd be surprised how many slots there are for PWO's.

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This is not the current problem but is a scandal that is wrong, and I can assure you it has gone on at Cal as well.

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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Another Bear said:

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This is true but among the aspiring 3.5%ers where your kid goes to college is about social standing, the parents not the kids.

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"3.5" percenter? Is this a meme or an inside joke I haven't caught on to? Why not 1% or 5% or 10%?

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Well, I have always used 32%, ever since I found out my family's wealth just barely made the cut for "top third".

juarezbear said:

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Sebastabear said:

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If you slightly tweaked this scheme and had the money going directly to the universities (as opposed to individual coaches and middlemen) and took out the fake test scores you could literally arrest entire ZIP Codes in Connecticut and the Silicon Valley.

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Exactly what I was thinking. Surprised that some of these folks didn't just make the donation and buy a spot. I've had arguments with a lot of people on this issue. Personally, if somebody is willing to donate REAL money - mid to high 8 figures - to a school, then I think there's benefit to the student body as a whole and I have no problem with it. OTOH, when somebody buys a spot with $500K to $1M or so, I don't see how that can pay tuition for another kid or two over the long haul.

Sebasta would know more than I would, but my sense is that since Cal is a public school, it's much more difficult to buy a spot since there's supposed to be more transparency on the admissions process.

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Spot on. Cal actually audits the hell out of this and the administrators are incredibly paranoid about even the appearance of favoritism to children of donors. I know they also look closely at the teams to see if the kids recruited as PWOs wind up playing. They definitely count them against the roster spots the coach can have - something other schools don't do.

Sebastabear said:

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juarezbear said:

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Sebastabear said:

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If you slightly tweaked this scheme and had the money going directly to the universities (as opposed to individual coaches and middlemen) and took out the fake test scores you could literally arrest entire ZIP Codes in Connecticut and the Silicon Valley.

---

Exactly what I was thinking. Surprised that some of these folks didn't just make the donation and buy a spot. I've had arguments with a lot of people on this issue. Personally, if somebody is willing to donate REAL money - mid to high 8 figures - to a school, then I think there's benefit to the student body as a whole and I have no problem with it. OTOH, when somebody buys a spot with $500K to $1M or so, I don't see how that can pay tuition for another kid or two over the long haul.

Sebasta would know more than I would, but my sense is that since Cal is a public school, it's much more difficult to buy a spot since there's supposed to be more transparency on the admissions process.

---

Spot on. Cal actually audits the hell out of this and the administrators are incredibly paranoid about even the appearance of favoritism to children of donors. I know they also look closely at the teams to see if the kids recruited as PWOs wind up playing. They definitely count them against the roster spots the coach can have - something other schools don't do.

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How about brothers and sisters of student athletes who have played at Cal getting PWOs?

okaydo said:

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Another Bear said:

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This is true but among the aspiring 3.5%ers where your kid goes to college is about social standing, the parents not the kids.

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1. I'm glad that my parents didn't really have friends. Or high class friends. My dad has no friends. My mom's closest friend was on welfare (who faked her address to send her son to Beverly Hills High).

2. Despite my mom being Asian, she was the opposite of a Tiger mom.

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Was your mom's friend Andrea Zuckerman's mom?

Also, who would pay 500k to get your kid into $C? That is the most hilarious thing about all this. Furd I can understand taking the risk, but man, there are so many private schools you can send you kid too without bribes that it's just silly to get desperate for $C.

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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OneTopOneChickenApple said:

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I always bring up this kind of stuff when people argue against Affirmative Action.

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This is liberal whataboutism. Two wrongs don't make a right.

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One is transparent and discussed. The other is a crime.

On the one hand, the amount of some of these payments is kind of staggering. On the other, at least I can understand that there was a significant reward for those facilitating the cheating. There are so many crimes where I just scratch my head and ask "you did that for $10K?"

I don't get this. Doesn't seem very smart. He could have simply made a donation, or endowed a chair or academic position and got access, no? It's USC.

One of Silicon Valley's most prominent voices for ethical investing is implicated in a college admissions bribery scandal

Quote:

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One of Silicon Valley's most prominent private equity investors and one of the tech sector's leading proponents of how to invest ethically and for social impact has been charged in an explosive college admissions scandal that was revealed Tuesday, March 12.

Prosecutors charged Bill McGlashan, a founder and managing partner at TPG Growth which has made landmark investments in companies like Uber and Airbnb on fraud allegations for trying to engineer the admission of his son to the University of Southern California.

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how dumb does your daughter have to be for the mom to pay them 500,000 just to be admitted to that school.

MiZery said:

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how dumb does your daughter have to be for the mom to pay them 500,000 just to be admitted to that school.

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Dumb but I think other things are driving things. For one, social standing for the PARENTS. Also it's LA. UCLA is a nice place on the Westside. It's a nice and safe place to visit...as opposed to USC. Very comfortable for the elite to visit and not feel icky or grossed out, like say in Berkeley.

OdontoBear66 said:

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Sebastabear said:

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juarezbear said:

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Sebastabear said:

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If you slightly tweaked this scheme and had the money going directly to the universities (as opposed to individual coaches and middlemen) and took out the fake test scores you could literally arrest entire ZIP Codes in Connecticut and the Silicon Valley.

---

Exactly what I was thinking. Surprised that some of these folks didn't just make the donation and buy a spot. I've had arguments with a lot of people on this issue. Personally, if somebody is willing to donate REAL money - mid to high 8 figures - to a school, then I think there's benefit to the student body as a whole and I have no problem with it. OTOH, when somebody buys a spot with $500K to $1M or so, I don't see how that can pay tuition for another kid or two over the long haul.

Sebasta would know more than I would, but my sense is that since Cal is a public school, it's much more difficult to buy a spot since there's supposed to be more transparency on the admissions process.

---

Spot on. Cal actually audits the hell out of this and the administrators are incredibly paranoid about even the appearance of favoritism to children of donors. I know they also look closely at the teams to see if the kids recruited as PWOs wind up playing. They definitely count them against the roster spots the coach can have - something other schools don't do.

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How about brothers and sisters of student athletes who have played at Cal getting PWOs?

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Regardless of what you think about the path Zach Maynard took to Cal, what's indisputable is that he was our starting quarterback. Not equivalent to this situation at all.

MiZery said:

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how dumb does your daughter have to be for the mom to pay them 500,000 just to be admitted to that school.

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Your kid is so dumb, you went to jail.