did i mis-hear him, or did he say that they just reported the allegations after learning about them this week?

ducky23 said:

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did i mis-hear him, or did he say that they just reported the allegations after learning about them this week?

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My first reaction too.

ducky23 said:

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did i mis-hear him, or did he say that they just reported the allegations after learning about them this week?

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Something I've pointed out in a couple places: her Facebook post says she emailed Wilcox and Knowlton. She does NOT say when. While that suggests it was a while ago, we shouldn't assume that. It may have been earlier this week.

He did say that. It's one of the more important piece of info - when he first became aware of the allegation. Reporters asked for the confirmation at the end and he "stood by his statement" that it was this week.

Interesting!

NYCGOBEARS said:

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ducky23 said:

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did i mis-hear him, or did he say that they just reported the allegations after learning about them this week?

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My first reaction too.

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It was very clear that is what he said, and it is the first thing about this situation that has surprised me. Either her claims of emails and phone calls are not true, or Cal football did not respond to them. Is there a third option? They don't check their messages? Their subordinates don't pass such messages on? I supposed all her emails and calls could have been within the week.

Sluggo

sluggo said:

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NYCGOBEARS said:

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ducky23 said:

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did i mis-hear him, or did he say that they just reported the allegations after learning about them this week?

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My first reaction too.

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It was very clear that is what he said, and it is the first thing about this situation that has surprised me. Either her claims of emails and phone calls are not true, or Cal football did not respond to them. Is there a third option? They don't check their messages? Their subordinates don't pass such messages on? I supposed all her emails and calls could have been within the week.

Sluggo

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See my above post. Where is that she says when she contacted them?

I stopped following the soap opera and punditry yesterday but my sense is this will blow over for the FB program given volunteer coach and fast reporting by staff...if everything was done by the book and no others involved. For the individuals involved, can't say the same. University might have to pay out.

Another Bear said:

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I stopped following the soap opera and punditry yesterday but my sense is this will blow over for the FB program given volunteer coach and fast reporting by staff...if everything was done by the book and no others involved. For the individuals involved, can't say the same. University might have to pay out.

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I just want to know what her major is, Economics/Chinese:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/news/2019/03/paige-cornelius/amp/

...or Molecular Biology:

https://harri.com/Paige-Cornelius-1

As a lawyer, I would start to worry I have the next Ellen Pao on my hands. Not to imply that Ms. Pao did not have a meritorious claim, but her baggage exceeded the weight limit in the eyes of the jury.

GMP said:

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sluggo said:

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NYCGOBEARS said:

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ducky23 said:

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did i mis-hear him, or did he say that they just reported the allegations after learning about them this week?

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My first reaction too.

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It was very clear that is what he said, and it is the first thing about this situation that has surprised me. Either her claims of emails and phone calls are not true, or Cal football did not respond to them. Is there a third option? They don't check their messages? Their subordinates don't pass such messages on? I supposed all her emails and calls could have been within the week.

Sluggo

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See my above post. Where is that she says when she contacted them?

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You are correct. It would be surprising if she complained after not hearing back in say three days, but possible.

Sluggo

Look again at the wording which he carefully repeated:

"As soon as we were first made aware of the allegations this week, we immediately reported... "

That could be interpreted as "the allegations that came out this week", but he might have heard of them and reported them earlier. Maybe.

Big C said:

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Look again at the wording which he carefully repeated:

"As soon as we were first made aware of the allegations this week, we immediately reported... "

That could be interpreted as "the allegations that came out this week", but he might have heard of them and reported them earlier. Maybe.

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That is positively "Clintonesque". Congrats, you win the 2019 Bill Clinton Pretzel Logic award.

Bottom line - some people think she is fabricating the story; some people believe she is telling the truth; some people don't know what to think and some people don't give a damn.

Nothing anyone says here is going to change the opinion held by others. This is a classic - if I yell loud enough, my version will become the truth (a good example of what it is like to live in the US in the 21st C).

Nothing Wilcox says, Knowlton says, the accuser says or anyone says means anything at this point. All that matters is the finding of the University Department responsible for investigating the matter. Time will tell who is being honest.

RJABear said:

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bearister said:

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I just want to know what her major is, Economics/Chinese:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/news/2019/03/paige-cornelius/amp/

...or Molecular Biology:

https://harri.com/Paige-Cornelius-1

As a lawyer, I would start to worry I have the next Ellen Pao on my hands. Not to imply that Ms. Pao did not have a meritorious claim, but her baggage exceeded the weight limit in the eyes of the jury.

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Ah yes, the old Economics, Chinese, & Molecular Biology triple major. Thought about that myself.

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I was close, Econ, Italian and Chem E

71Bear said:

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Nothing Wilcox says, Knowlton says, the accuser says or anyone says means anything at this point. All that matters is the finding of the University Department responsible for investigating the matter. Time will tell who is being honest.

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Disagree. The internal investigation, what happens in court (if it gets there), and public opinion all matter, just for starters. And Wilcox's comments do shed some light, although they lack necessary context to fully understand what they mean.

Sluggo

Everyone...I highly recommend that you use your critical thinking and put all the pieces of this together:

• Look at what you know about Wilcox and Knowlton-both careful, thoughtful, competent and honest people. Raise your hand and state publically here if you believe they would ignore a sexual harassment complaint?
• The accuser said herself that she was suffering from mental illness including "bi-polar" disorder when leaving school many months ago.
• At the time she left she had nothing but positive things to say in her own post on facebook about everyone at Cal. Remember this when you consider her allegations are about things that took place while she was at Cal last year, emphasis on LAST YEAR.
• Multiple BI posters are saying they have information from multiple unofficial sources that the "finstagram" account and post bragging of "hooking up" with a coach in the football offices is in fact hers.
• In my opinion, Her long and detailed facebook post about the alleged harassment, when looked at objectively raises many more questions than it answers and does not present her in a good light at all.
• I would argue that while she seeks to damage the University of California and Cal Football in particular she is also doing great harm to herself.
• She also provides absolutely no proof of any of the more scurrilous complaints while her social media presence provides information that runs 180 degrees counter to her complaints.
• I do not believe that her facebook postings are being directed by her "legal team". In my experience with sexual harassment type claims the plaintiff will file the lawsuit and then leak it to the press who then go about publishing all of the most inflammatory and prurient details.
• The defendant of course has their hands tied and is unable to publically defend themselves in most cases just as we see here with the University.

The problem is someone in this condition, in this Politically Correct environment where people are careful to a fault and will not call out truth (or lies) when they see them can do great harm to our University and to our Athletics program if unchecked.

Most of the stuff you wrote has nothing to do with critical thinking, or it can't be applied.

But here's one marco critical question: why frame those statements that way with that content and opinions?

annarborbear said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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NVBear78 said:

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Everyone...I highly recommend that you use your critical thinking and put all the pieces of this together:

• Look at what you know about Wilcox and Knowlton-both careful, thoughtful, competent and honest people. Raise your hand and state publically here if you believe they would ignore a sexual harassment complaint?

All I know about them is what they say in press conferences and emails. I have no way of knowing what their true nature is.

• The accuser said herself that she was suffering from mental illness including "bi-polar" disorder when leaving school many months ago.

So? Do you what bi-polar disorder is? And does her being bi-polar have anything to do with the veracity of her claims?

• At the time she left she had nothing but positive things to say in her own post on facebook about everyone at Cal. Remember this when you consider her allegations are about things that took place while she was at Cal last year, emphasis on LAST YEAR.

Maybe she was still of the mindset of not wanting to talk about what she claims happened to her. Maybe something else changed. There's no way for me to know.

• Multiple BI posters are saying they have information from multiple unofficial sources that the "finstagram" account and post bragging of "hooking up" with a coach in the football offices is in fact hers.

You're a lawyer, aren't you? You know what would happen in court if you tried to use that as evidence, right after the judge stopped laughing at you.

• In my opinion, Her long and detailed facebook post about the alleged harassment, when looked at objectively raises many more questions than it answers and does not present her in a good light at all.

You're not objective. You have a stake in the outcome.

• I would argue that while she seeks to damage the University of California and Cal Football in particular she is also doing great harm to herself.

You are in no position to know that

• She also provides absolutely no proof of any of the more scurrilous complaints while her social media presence provides information that runs 180 degrees counter to her complaints.

Which is no proof of anything either

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Good job victim shaming by you and many others. It's nice to see that Cal fans are just like fans of every other program who rush to defend their "brand" at all costs without any knowledge of the facts.

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Make that "alleged victim" if you want to be fair.

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If you like

Yogi Bear said:

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Good job victim shaming by you and many others. It's nice to see that Cal fans are just like fans of every other program who rush to defend their "brand" at all costs without any knowledge of the facts.

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I don't think that is at ALL fair (or at least not mostly fair)

Victim shaming => A lot of the "did you see her in the Bikini?" posts. I wish we had Shocky back cause he would be CHOICE on this subject

Not Victim Shaming => Pointing out that the post really does resemble something written by someone on a maniac episode.

Now that doesn't make it "untrue". What it does is suggest that the reality is probably something DIFFERENT (note I didn't say half way or in between just DIFFERENT) than what that facebook post laid out.

And I am not sure the above even PERTAINS to the victim. What it says is that you probably don't want to take the Facebook post as a verbatim recollection of facts and episodes that are laid out like a criminal complaint.

What 71 Bear says.

71Bear said:

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NVBear78 said:

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Everyone...I highly recommend that you use your critical thinking and put all the pieces of this together:

• Look at what you know about Wilcox and Knowlton-both careful, thoughtful, competent and honest people. Raise your hand and state publically here if you believe they would ignore a sexual harassment complaint?
• The accuser said herself that she was suffering from mental illness including "bi-polar" disorder when leaving school many months ago.
• At the time she left she had nothing but positive things to say in her own post on facebook about everyone at Cal. Remember this when you consider her allegations are about things that took place while she was at Cal last year, emphasis on LAST YEAR.
• Multiple BI posters are saying they have information from multiple unofficial sources that the "finstagram" account and post bragging of "hooking up" with a coach in the football offices is in fact hers.
• In my opinion, Her long and detailed facebook post about the alleged harassment, when looked at objectively raises many more questions than it answers and does not present her in a good light at all.
• I would argue that while she seeks to damage the University of California and Cal Football in particular she is also doing great harm to herself.
• She also provides absolutely no proof of any of the more scurrilous complaints while her social media presence provides information that runs 180 degrees counter to her complaints.
• I do not believe that her facebook postings are being directed by her "legal team". In my experience with sexual harassment type claims the plaintiff will file the lawsuit and then leak it to the press who then go about publishing all of the most inflammatory and prurient details.
• The defendant of course has their hands tied and is unable to publically defend themselves in most cases just as we see here with the University.

The problem is someone in this condition, in this Politically Correct environment where people are careful to a fault and will not call out truth (or lies) when they see them can do great harm to our University and to our Athletics program if unchecked.

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Your commentary is colored by your political beliefs which are well-known given the number of posts you have made here expressly them. It is as useful as an observation from Bernie Sanders. The truth, as always, lies somewhere in between. Personally, I have no idea what happened because I wasn't party to the goings on. I trust the investigation will unearth the facts. Until then.............

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The truth, as always, lies somewhere in between. Not always and certainly not in cases like this. I give you Tawanna Brawley and the Duke lacrosse cases for starters.

And, the issue, for us, will not be what happened, but what the consequences are for Cal, Cal fb and other sports, and the persons accused. Whether she's telling the truth or not, she has done damage. Even if she is found to have lied completely, many will use her accusations against us.

I'm speculating (truth in advertising) that she would lose in criminal and civil court. The stuff of her writings and postings appear impossible to overcome, even for Gloria Allred. The internal investigation has to find something, anything, otherwise there will be a ****storm coming down, frankly, from the Left. I think her mental illness led her to listen to people who probably don't have her best interests in mind.

Rushinbear said:

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I think her mental illness led her to listen to people who probably don't have her best interests in mind.

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Good. Let's add some mental health shaming into the equation too.

Rushinbear said:

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71Bear said:

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NVBear78 said:

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Everyone...I highly recommend that you use your critical thinking and put all the pieces of this together:

• Look at what you know about Wilcox and Knowlton-both careful, thoughtful, competent and honest people. Raise your hand and state publically here if you believe they would ignore a sexual harassment complaint?
• The accuser said herself that she was suffering from mental illness including "bi-polar" disorder when leaving school many months ago.
• At the time she left she had nothing but positive things to say in her own post on facebook about everyone at Cal. Remember this when you consider her allegations are about things that took place while she was at Cal last year, emphasis on LAST YEAR.
• Multiple BI posters are saying they have information from multiple unofficial sources that the "finstagram" account and post bragging of "hooking up" with a coach in the football offices is in fact hers.
• In my opinion, Her long and detailed facebook post about the alleged harassment, when looked at objectively raises many more questions than it answers and does not present her in a good light at all.
• I would argue that while she seeks to damage the University of California and Cal Football in particular she is also doing great harm to herself.
• She also provides absolutely no proof of any of the more scurrilous complaints while her social media presence provides information that runs 180 degrees counter to her complaints.
• I do not believe that her facebook postings are being directed by her "legal team". In my experience with sexual harassment type claims the plaintiff will file the lawsuit and then leak it to the press who then go about publishing all of the most inflammatory and prurient details.
• The defendant of course has their hands tied and is unable to publically defend themselves in most cases just as we see here with the University.

The problem is someone in this condition, in this Politically Correct environment where people are careful to a fault and will not call out truth (or lies) when they see them can do great harm to our University and to our Athletics program if unchecked.

---

Your commentary is colored by your political beliefs which are well-known given the number of posts you have made here expressly them. It is as useful as an observation from Bernie Sanders. The truth, as always, lies somewhere in between. Personally, I have no idea what happened because I wasn't party to the goings on. I trust the investigation will unearth the facts. Until then.............

---

The truth, as always, lies somewhere in between. Not always and certainly not in cases like this. I give you Tawanna Brawley and the Duke lacrosse cases for starters.

And, the issue, for us, will not be what happened, but what the consequences are for Cal, Cal fb and other sports, and the persons accused. Whether she's telling the truth or not, she has done damage. Even if she is found to have lied completely, many will use her accusations against us.

I'm speculating (truth in advertising) that she would lose in criminal and civil court. The stuff of her writings and postings appear impossible to overcome, even for Gloria Allred. The internal investigation has to find something, anything, otherwise there will be a ****storm coming down, frankly, from the Left. I think her mental illness led her to listen to people who probably don't have her best interests in mind.

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Wow. I didn't think it was possible but you took NV's commentary and doubled down. You can stand to the right of NV.

The thing I find most fascinating acting in all of these personal attacks is those who do not look at the entirety of both her original message and her social media postings. Some appear to listen to the allegations only but ignore the rest? How do evaluate and assess events and ideas and information?

Of course the investigation must be full and complete but I see many of you making aspersions against Wilcox, Knowlton and Cal based on what?

Personal attacks? Snowflakes are melting.

NVBear78 said:

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The thing I find most fascinating acting in all of these personal attacks is those who do not look at the entirety of both her original message and her social media postings. Some appear to listen to the allegations only but ignore the rest? How do evaluate and assess events and ideas and information?

Of course the investigation must be full and complete but I see many of you making aspersions against Wilcox, Knowlton and Cal based on what?

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Please list all those aspersions for us. Then list all the aspersions made against the alleged victim.

Is there any info on why the volunteer coach is no longer with the football program? I mean, unlike Wyking, that couldn't have been a financial decision.

And if Wilcox just learned of the allegations this week, was the volunteer coach fired or did he quit?

NVBear78 said:

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The thing I find most fascinating acting in all of these personal attacks is those who do not look at the entirety of both her original message and her social media postings. Some appear to listen to the allegations only but ignore the rest? How do evaluate and assess events and ideas and information?

Of course the investigation must be full and complete but I see many of you making aspersions against Wilcox, Knowlton and Cal based on what?

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On that we agree...

Who knows what happened? Those involved in the matter are not permitted to say anything publicly. Therefore, everything written here is mere speculation. Speculation is what this website is all about, I get that. What I don't get is the "authoritative tone" utilized by many posters. It would be laughable if this weren't such a serious topic.