iksO facto said:

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After unheard of carnage and hundreds of thousands dead and maimed, victory was achieved, and General Grant ordered his men to treat the surrendering soldiers with dignity and respect.

When the overwhelmingly favored US team kept scoring against a defenseless Thailand, they celebrated each successive goal as if it were the clincher in a hard caught contest.
Disgusting, disheartening, and clueless.
"The Ugly American" presented to the world.

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You could not be more wrong. Each of the celebrations were not an "in your face Thailand" celebration, but Morgan going for a record, Lloyd getting what may be her last goal, Pugh getting her first, etc. There was general happiness for each other that was genuine. We were not giving Thailand the finger in any way.

GBear4Life said:

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....a have an autistic adolescent nephew with more sense than that.

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Austism doesn't affect having "[common] sense" one way or the other. Rather, how one is raised to respect (or disrespect) others is much more influential.

bearister said:

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GBear4Life said:

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Disappointingly, Morgan is putting her cap in the fallaciously ignorant "men get paid X, therefore, so should women".

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Just give men and women athletes the same percentage of the gate receipts. Sex discrimination issue goes bye bye.

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This will not fly for players, men or women.

Nor should gate receipts supersede profits. WNBA generates revenue, but it loses money every year.

iksO facto said:

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It's not about "in your face", it's about self-glorification for achievements against an opponent that shouldn't have been on the same field. Pathetic behavior unworthy of a champion.

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Take away goal differential as a tie breaker and that game against Thailand would likely have been much different. At the time, the USA team didn't know if everyone would beat an outclassed Thailand by 10+ goals.

I don't have the time to go look for it, but there's a photo out there of Alex Morgan consoling one of the Thai players after the game. Probably the one that played for Cal.

iksO facto said:

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After unheard of carnage and hundreds of thousands dead and maimed, victory was achieved, and General Grant ordered his men to treat the surrendering soldiers with dignity and respect.

When the overwhelmingly favored US team kept scoring against a defenseless Thailand, they celebrated each successive goal as if it were the clincher in a hard caught contest.
Disgusting, disheartening, and clueless.
"The Ugly American" presented to the world.

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The comparisons are not warranted:
1. Over 150 years passed from the end of the Civil War to the present day.
2. At the end of the Civil War Lincoln's objective was to heal the wounds caused by the CW as quickly as possible

GMP said:

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oski003 said:

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GMP said:

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TomBear said:

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Back to the main topic.......

Like most of us I respect differing opinions, and simply stated mine.

What saddens me (as a follow up) is the days of playing games and being classy are largely gone and aren't coming back. Yes there are some who still adhere to playing games with respect for opponent, fans and game (i/e Cal Rugby), but they are increasingly marginalized by the number of athletes/programs that let ego and individualist antics become the definition of themselves and/or their teams.

Like I said, I recognize I'm old school in this but will carry those thoughts proudly. I also believe in saying "yes sir, yes ma'am", walking on the street side while walking with a lady, trying to keep my language clean, opening doors for others and being polite to those I disagree with. Those are things I grew up with, and try to promote. But more and more I feel like a minority, and i guess that's just how things "progress".

Witness USNWT

(Again, I'm not taking away from their achievement. They were magnificent. I just wish they represented themselves and their country differently).

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I don't mean to make any value judgment over you, because I don't know you. But I find it is very easy for people with privilege (of many kinds) to accept wins (of many kinds) with class. The USWNT feels, rightfully IMO, that they are treated poorly. I imagine much of their celebration was catharsis - and a message to the US Soccer powers that be.

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How are they treated poorly? How does their treatment compare to, say, the U. S. Rugby team?

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They bring in more money than the men's team and are paid considerably less.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/jul/11/does-us-womens-soccer-team-bring-more-revenue-get-/

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That's a pretty manipulative article, for example it goes on at length about the USWNT being shafted at this world cup while hiding the basic fact that revenues from the last World Cup were 45 times higher than the women's WC.

The other issue is that the gap in skill and technical level is still extremely wide. Women's soccer is still nowhere near where other top notch women's sports like tennis or gymnastics are relative to the men's game. In those other sports, the pay gap is much smaller, commensurate with the much smaller gender gap in athletic prowess that those other sports enjoy.

Cal88 said:

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GMP said:

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oski003 said:

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GMP said:

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TomBear said:

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Back to the main topic.......

Like most of us I respect differing opinions, and simply stated mine.

What saddens me (as a follow up) is the days of playing games and being classy are largely gone and aren't coming back. Yes there are some who still adhere to playing games with respect for opponent, fans and game (i/e Cal Rugby), but they are increasingly marginalized by the number of athletes/programs that let ego and individualist antics become the definition of themselves and/or their teams.

Like I said, I recognize I'm old school in this but will carry those thoughts proudly. I also believe in saying "yes sir, yes ma'am", walking on the street side while walking with a lady, trying to keep my language clean, opening doors for others and being polite to those I disagree with. Those are things I grew up with, and try to promote. But more and more I feel like a minority, and i guess that's just how things "progress".

Witness USNWT

(Again, I'm not taking away from their achievement. They were magnificent. I just wish they represented themselves and their country differently).

---

I don't mean to make any value judgment over you, because I don't know you. But I find it is very easy for people with privilege (of many kinds) to accept wins (of many kinds) with class. The USWNT feels, rightfully IMO, that they are treated poorly. I imagine much of their celebration was catharsis - and a message to the US Soccer powers that be.

---

How are they treated poorly? How does their treatment compare to, say, the U. S. Rugby team?

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They bring in more money than the men's team and are paid considerably less.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/jul/11/does-us-womens-soccer-team-bring-more-revenue-get-/

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That's a pretty manipulative article, for example it goes on at length about the USWNT being shafted at this world cup while hiding the basic fact that revenues from the last World Cup were 45 times higher than the women's WC.

The other issue is that the gap in skill and technical level is still extremely wide. Women's soccer is still nowhere near where other top notch women's sports like tennis or gymnastics are relative to the men's game. In those other sports, the pay gap is much smaller, commensurate with the much smaller gender gap in athletic prowess that those other sports enjoy.

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To me it is much simpler than that. The Wimbledon womens final was probably close to being equal in viewership which means advertising and gate dollars. Women's golf is nowhere near. In the case we are talking about, the Women's World Cup in the US created much more interest than the men's (and I did not say internationally) because our mens team is not competitive at the highest levels yet. Give the WSOC ladies the dollars.

Cal88 said:

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GMP said:

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oski003 said:

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GMP said:

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TomBear said:

---

Back to the main topic.......

Like most of us I respect differing opinions, and simply stated mine.

What saddens me (as a follow up) is the days of playing games and being classy are largely gone and aren't coming back. Yes there are some who still adhere to playing games with respect for opponent, fans and game (i/e Cal Rugby), but they are increasingly marginalized by the number of athletes/programs that let ego and individualist antics become the definition of themselves and/or their teams.

Like I said, I recognize I'm old school in this but will carry those thoughts proudly. I also believe in saying "yes sir, yes ma'am", walking on the street side while walking with a lady, trying to keep my language clean, opening doors for others and being polite to those I disagree with. Those are things I grew up with, and try to promote. But more and more I feel like a minority, and i guess that's just how things "progress".

Witness USNWT

(Again, I'm not taking away from their achievement. They were magnificent. I just wish they represented themselves and their country differently).

---

I don't mean to make any value judgment over you, because I don't know you. But I find it is very easy for people with privilege (of many kinds) to accept wins (of many kinds) with class. The USWNT feels, rightfully IMO, that they are treated poorly. I imagine much of their celebration was catharsis - and a message to the US Soccer powers that be.

---

How are they treated poorly? How does their treatment compare to, say, the U. S. Rugby team?

---

They bring in more money than the men's team and are paid considerably less.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/jul/11/does-us-womens-soccer-team-bring-more-revenue-get-/

---

That's a pretty manipulative article, for example it goes on at length about the USWNT being shafted at this world cup while hiding the basic fact that revenues from the last World Cup were 45 times higher than the women's WC.

The other issue is that the gap in skill and technical level is still extremely wide. Women's soccer is still nowhere near where other top notch women's sports like tennis or gymnastics are relative to the men's game. In those other sports, the pay gap is much smaller, commensurate with the much smaller gender gap in athletic prowess that those other sports enjoy.

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I acknowledge that this issue is more complicated than I previously realized. I had read reports that the USWNT revenue was equal/better than USMNT, and took that on its face. My confusion is due in part to a trade off the USWNT made in its collectively bargained agreement with US Soccer, which I didn't realize. I found and read an LAT article this morning (it was not new) that was a little more clear than the politifact one I linked to over the weekend.

But I will note that your statement about WC revenue is very misleading.

First, you said revenue from the World Cup was 45x higher than the women's WC. However, the amount paid to players for each World Cup is only 10x (400M to 30M) (and in the case of the U.S., the USWNT won, and the USMNT didn't even qualify). But if we go back to 2014, the gap is even smaller.

That year, the men's team earned a FIFA bonus pool of $9M for making the Round of 16. In 2019, the USWNT player bonus pool was $4M. Not 45x, but barely 2x.

Second, the FIFA player bonus is not what we're talking about. US Soccer cannot control that (although apparently how they distribute the player bonus they can control). But here's a breakdown from FiveThirtyEight on how the players get paid by US Soccer:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/women-earn-the-glory-while-men-earn-the-money-in-u-s-soccer/

An example of the disparities:

Quote:

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• The men's shared bonus for qualifying for Brazil totaled $2 million. The women's total qualifying bonus for Canada was $300,000. The men played 16 qualifying games, whereas the women played only five, but that is still a difference of $125,000 per game vs. $60,000 per game.

• The men's bonus for being named to the final 23-player World Cup roster was $55,000 each; the women earned $15,000 each.

• In addition to the share of ticket revenues for home friendlies, the men earned $1,500 per game in the three-match send-off series leading up to the World Cup. The women earned $1,350 per game, and only if they won them.

• For each friendly, including the send-off series, the men earned between $7,500 and $14,100 per win, based on the FIFA ranking of the opponent. They earned between $5,000 and $6,500 for draws and $4,000 for a loss. The women earned $1,350 for wins, receiving no bonus for draws or losses.

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Even though the USWNT apparently takes in a better gate, they are paid less per game, even when you add back in their salary for the NWSL (which I don't think should count - US Soccer owns the NWSL and pays them for separate work).

.