OneKeg said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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OneKeg said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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OneKeg said:

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TomBear - thanks for sharing your thoughts. Obviously I disagree.

I think our athletes and entertainers, like everyone else, not only can but if inclined, should express themselves, not just hold opinions privately. As with everyone else, folks can then agree or disagree with their opinions.

That holds true whether it's the USWNT's opinions on Trump, Scott Fujita's opinions on marriage equality, Muhammad Ali's opinions on the Viet Nam War, Colin Kaepernick protesting what he feels is systemic racism, Charlton Heston becoming the president of and speaking on behalf of the NRA, Johnny Damon speaking in favor of Trump or Tom Brady wearing a MAGA hat.

Even Donald Trump, before he was President, when he was an entertainer - a reality TV personality and businessman with mixed results, felt no compunction about promoting the controversial Obama birther garbage. Or prior to that, calling for the death of the Central Park Five who were exonerated. I utterly disagreed with what he had to say and still do, but did not think it was improper for him to express himself on such controversial topics in the first place.

Again, to be clear, I respect your opinion but disagree with it.

Will also post this on Insider board for continuity.

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The problem I have with entertainers and sports figures doing same is that they have achieved fame for their performance on stage or on the field of play and then in turn use that fame as a stage to vocalize their opinions. Pick any celeb you want, meaning it can be of any persuasion, it is just that Megan Rapinoe's opinion on a subject is worth NO MORE THAN YOURS OR MINE, but because she has fame and spotlight on her she uses that platform to espouse her opinion. That I do not think is right (and by the way I agree with what her protest is, just not the "****ing", etc.). I wholeheartedly think the women should be paid as much or more than the men soccer players (they have done relatively nothing in comparison); I do believe she should make the strong case for LBG rights and equality, but do so with a measure of class. Dividing America in front of an international audience is not the place.

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Just to be clear - I never said Rapinoe's opinion (since you mentioned her) is worth more than any of ours. Sure she has a platform/spotlight right now. Lots of people do.

We have other much more prominent figures than her nationally who have used their fame to either serve themselves or espouse their opinions to a far greater extent. I gave some specific examples in my post above (pre-2016 Trump, Charlton Heston). These were controversial positions that divided America.

Why is it Megan Rapinoe that needs to shut up?

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Uh, I think Rapinoe was brought up because this is a post World Cup soccer thread. I did not say that "you said....." I merely gave what my opinion was about entertainers and sports figures who gain stage using that stage. Because someone is a great actor doesn't mean their pearls of wisdom are pearls at all.

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Right, that's why I said "just to be clear" in case anyone thought I had said it because it might have seemed that way from your all caps section. Wasn't indicating you were saying I said it, or that there was any problem with you bringing up Rapinoe in a WWC thread. I just used it as a segue.

Again entertainers and sports figures can and have gained a stage and use that stage all the time. I gave several examples including pre-2016 Trump and Heston, Brady and Damon. I don't remember this level of national condemnation for the others at the time they expressed their opinions, besides Kaepernick. Kind of seems like there are only certain types of opinions that are off limits if athletes or entertainers express them using their platform.

Not talking about disagreement with opinions expressed - disagreement is fine. But rather saying that they should not even speak up. I think they can and should.

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And I am agreeing wholeheartedly. Their values are all uniquely great. I'm just saying they shouldn't be using the "stage" of their popularity as microphone.

Why do people who denounce young people these days for being too sensitive and who support a president whose appeal is that he's the opposite of sensitive become ultrasensitive when a famous person behaves without sensitivity?

Anyways, here's a video of some random girl juggling a soccer ball.

calbear70 said:

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....Thailand could be beaten by any college team. Just shake hands and walk off the field.

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No.

If you knew the level of competition and difficulty of qualifying for the World Cup, you would not make this statement. Possibly, Thailand could be beaten by a GOOD AMERICAN college team, but, certainly not by any college team.

Go Bears!

TomBear said:

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Now, I will say that I am not only disappointed, but am a bit disgusted by the mouthing off, and some of the antics. That totally marred my overall admiration for the team. So from an athletic standpoint I'm thrilled. From a sportsmanship/political standpoint I have lost a great deal of respect for (some of) them.

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Mouthing off by female soccer player - loss of respect
Mouthing off by President of United State - silent assent

For those who are outraged by Megan Rapinoe, are you also outraged that the president didn't acknowledge the U.S. women's team's victory?

Or do you hold Rapinoe to a higher standard than President Trump?

I thought President Trump acknowledged USWNT's World Cup victory and congratulated them. He had earlier invited them to the White House.

Go Bears!

okaydo said:

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For those who are outraged by Megan Rapinoe, are you also outraged that the president didn't acknowledge the U.S. women's team's victory?

Or do you hold Rapinoe to a higher standard than President Trump?

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He actually did

My bad. I guess I read too much into this:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/worldcup/2019/07/07/world-cup-donald-trump-waffles-uswnt-invitation-white-house/1669659001/

okaydo said:

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Anyways, here's a video of some random girl juggling a soccer ball.

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I predict she'll be a star.

okaydo said:

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For those who are outraged by Megan Rapinoe, are you also outraged that the president didn't acknowledge the U.S. women's team's victory?

Or do you hold Rapinoe to a higher standard than President Trump?

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I'm outraged that the team accepted an invitation to visit the senate from Chuck Schumer. @AmiriAminiMD summed it up nicely:

"We're not going to the ****ig White House... but we're going to visit the people who supported Trump's expansion of the surveillance state, his insane military budget increase, support his Yemen genocide and his Wall Street deregulation because, you know, we're #TheResistance."

opinions are cool, whatever people think or feel about anything is fine, but the WH visit is an apolitical thing. Publicly and preemptively rejecting a U.S team-invite to make a partisan (and stupid) political gesture and moral posturing reflects poorly on her, not on the president. Rapinoe should "stay in her lane".

GBear4Life said:

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.. Rapinoe should "stay in her lane".

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You may be right but the reason we are at this place is that tRump never stays in his. He constantly publicly interjects himself into all kinds of issues that a POTUS should not be involved with. Dubya was more Conservative that tRump but at least he usually had the common sense to keep his low IQ thoughts regarding non governmental matters to himself. tRump makes lots of enemies to the point where it seems his goal is to have everyone but his base hate him.

I don't turn down a visit to the Hearst Castle because the Manager there is a d-bag. If you told anybody that's why you're not going, all your friends would laugh at you. I"m not going to show how much I disapprove of so-and-so!....a have an autistic adolescent nephew with more sense than that.

GBear4Life said:

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I don't turn down a visit to the Hearst Castle because the Manager there is a d-bag. If you told anybody that's why you're not going, all your friends would laugh at you. I"m not going to show how much I disapprove of so-and-so!....a have an autistic adolescent nephew with more sense than that.

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Well, a celebrity would more likely be viewed by the public as validating the d@uchebaggary of a POTUS by visiting the WH for a televised PR event than visiting Hearst Castle. However, if the manager of Hearst Castle was a racist, self admitted sexual predator and an adjudicated business fraud, I would probably decline an invite to Patty's Place as well.*


*I'm pretty sure you just made an insensitive and inappropriate reference to autism.

when one person declines, everyone is justified in doing so (against any figure). Which is fine by me, I just know the public would not share my sentiment.

He's right.

Hmm

okaydo said:

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He's right.

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No he is not right.
The reference to The Judaeo-Christian civilization is often used as code to mean Northern European and North America.

Rarely is it intended to really include all those areas where Christianity and Judaism have penetrated. Much of Africa, Middle East. Large parts of Asia. Central and South America.

The term is used as code also to cloak the speaker's prejudices with the sacredness of religion.

Judaism and Christianity are Religions and not Civilizations. And for Gorka to take up the position as the true Defender of the Faith is a travesty. His life and the positions he has taken are totally at odds with the basic precepts of both Christianity and Judaism.
Just to name a few: Love your neighbor, do good to those who hate you. Take care of the poor and down trodden. Take care of widows and orphans. Take care of the elderly. welcome the stranger into your house. Don't kill. Don't steal; don't lie; don't lust after your neighbors wife or your neighbors possessions Treat others as you would want to be treated.

When I was growing up guys like Sebastian Gorka were in central casting and rotated on TV shows like Man from U.N.C.L.E., I Spy, Get Smart, Secret Agent and The Wild Wild West playing the villain.

Back to the main topic.......

Like most of us I respect differing opinions, and simply stated mine.

What saddens me (as a follow up) is the days of playing games and being classy are largely gone and aren't coming back. Yes there are some who still adhere to playing games with respect for opponent, fans and game (i/e Cal Rugby), but they are increasingly marginalized by the number of athletes/programs that let ego and individualist antics become the definition of themselves and/or their teams.

Like I said, I recognize I'm old school in this but will carry those thoughts proudly. I also believe in saying "yes sir, yes ma'am", walking on the street side while walking with a lady, trying to keep my language clean, opening doors for others and being polite to those I disagree with. Those are things I grew up with, and try to promote. But more and more I feel like a minority, and i guess that's just how things "progress".

Witness USNWT

(Again, I'm not taking away from their achievement. They were magnificent. I just wish they represented themselves and their country differently).

TomBear said:

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Back to the main topic.......

Like most of us I respect differing opinions, and simply stated mine.

What saddens me (as a follow up) is the days of playing games and being classy are largely gone and aren't coming back. Yes there are some who still adhere to playing games with respect for opponent, fans and game (i/e Cal Rugby), but they are increasingly marginalized by the number of athletes/programs that let ego and individualist antics become the definition of themselves and/or their teams.

Like I said, I recognize I'm old school in this but will carry those thoughts proudly. I also believe in saying "yes sir, yes ma'am", walking on the street side while walking with a lady, trying to keep my language clean, opening doors for others and being polite to those I disagree with. Those are things I grew up with, and try to promote. But more and more I feel like a minority, and i guess that's just how things "progress".

Witness USNWT

(Again, I'm not taking away from their achievement. They were magnificent. I just wish they represented themselves and their country differently).

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I don't mean to make any value judgment over you, because I don't know you. But I find it is very easy for people with privilege (of many kinds) to accept wins (of many kinds) with class. The USWNT feels, rightfully IMO, that they are treated poorly. I imagine much of their celebration was catharsis - and a message to the US Soccer powers that be.

GMP said:

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TomBear said:

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Back to the main topic.......

Like most of us I respect differing opinions, and simply stated mine.

What saddens me (as a follow up) is the days of playing games and being classy are largely gone and aren't coming back. Yes there are some who still adhere to playing games with respect for opponent, fans and game (i/e Cal Rugby), but they are increasingly marginalized by the number of athletes/programs that let ego and individualist antics become the definition of themselves and/or their teams.

Like I said, I recognize I'm old school in this but will carry those thoughts proudly. I also believe in saying "yes sir, yes ma'am", walking on the street side while walking with a lady, trying to keep my language clean, opening doors for others and being polite to those I disagree with. Those are things I grew up with, and try to promote. But more and more I feel like a minority, and i guess that's just how things "progress".

Witness USNWT

(Again, I'm not taking away from their achievement. They were magnificent. I just wish they represented themselves and their country differently).

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I don't mean to make any value judgment over you, because I don't know you. But I find it is very easy for people with privilege (of many kinds) to accept wins (of many kinds) with class. The USWNT feels, rightfully IMO, that they are treated poorly. I imagine much of their celebration was catharsis - and a message to the US Soccer powers that be.

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How are they treated poorly? How does their treatment compare to, say, the U. S. Rugby team?

TomBear said:

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Back to the main topic.......

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I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure, that your intro is passive aggressive.

Disappointingly, Morgan is putting her cap in the fallaciously ignorant "men get paid X, therefore, so should women".

GBear4Life said:

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Disappointingly, Morgan is putting her cap in the fallaciously ignorant "men get paid X, therefore, so should women".

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Just give men and women athletes the same percentage of the gate receipts. Sex discrimination issue goes bye bye.

oski003 said:

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GMP said:

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TomBear said:

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Back to the main topic.......

Like most of us I respect differing opinions, and simply stated mine.

What saddens me (as a follow up) is the days of playing games and being classy are largely gone and aren't coming back. Yes there are some who still adhere to playing games with respect for opponent, fans and game (i/e Cal Rugby), but they are increasingly marginalized by the number of athletes/programs that let ego and individualist antics become the definition of themselves and/or their teams.

Like I said, I recognize I'm old school in this but will carry those thoughts proudly. I also believe in saying "yes sir, yes ma'am", walking on the street side while walking with a lady, trying to keep my language clean, opening doors for others and being polite to those I disagree with. Those are things I grew up with, and try to promote. But more and more I feel like a minority, and i guess that's just how things "progress".

Witness USNWT

(Again, I'm not taking away from their achievement. They were magnificent. I just wish they represented themselves and their country differently).

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I don't mean to make any value judgment over you, because I don't know you. But I find it is very easy for people with privilege (of many kinds) to accept wins (of many kinds) with class. The USWNT feels, rightfully IMO, that they are treated poorly. I imagine much of their celebration was catharsis - and a message to the US Soccer powers that be.

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How are they treated poorly? How does their treatment compare to, say, the U. S. Rugby team?

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They bring in more money than the men's team and are paid considerably less.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/jul/11/does-us-womens-soccer-team-bring-more-revenue-get-/

GMP said:

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But I find it is very easy for people with privilege (of many kinds) to accept wins (of many kinds) with class.

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I'm not so sure that being raised in a family "of privilege" results in an athlete displaying more "class" than athletes being raised in lesser affluent circumstances. Today we have NFL football players celebrating first downs or good tackles like they won the Super Bowl, bat flipping in MLB is now common, standing over a player who has been dunked on is common in the NBA, etc. This behavior has become pervasive, across sports at all levels. Coaches accept it for a variety of reasons. Media exacerbates this behavior by focusing on the behavior as part of the "highlights" of the game.

It detracts from the game imo. Morgan & the USWNT looked silly with their excessive "celebrations" throughout the tournament.

GMP said:

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oski003 said:

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GMP said:

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TomBear said:

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Back to the main topic.......

Like most of us I respect differing opinions, and simply stated mine.

What saddens me (as a follow up) is the days of playing games and being classy are largely gone and aren't coming back. Yes there are some who still adhere to playing games with respect for opponent, fans and game (i/e Cal Rugby), but they are increasingly marginalized by the number of athletes/programs that let ego and individualist antics become the definition of themselves and/or their teams.

Like I said, I recognize I'm old school in this but will carry those thoughts proudly. I also believe in saying "yes sir, yes ma'am", walking on the street side while walking with a lady, trying to keep my language clean, opening doors for others and being polite to those I disagree with. Those are things I grew up with, and try to promote. But more and more I feel like a minority, and i guess that's just how things "progress".

Witness USNWT

(Again, I'm not taking away from their achievement. They were magnificent. I just wish they represented themselves and their country differently).

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I don't mean to make any value judgment over you, because I don't know you. But I find it is very easy for people with privilege (of many kinds) to accept wins (of many kinds) with class. The USWNT feels, rightfully IMO, that they are treated poorly. I imagine much of their celebration was catharsis - and a message to the US Soccer powers that be.

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How are they treated poorly? How does their treatment compare to, say, the U. S. Rugby team?

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They bring in more money than the men's team and are paid considerably less.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/jul/11/does-us-womens-soccer-team-bring-more-revenue-get-/

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Hardly. The article has trouble figuring out if this is true. Female players get a much higher percentage of World Cup revenue as a prize than men do. The international revenue for mens soccer, unlike women's, is incredible. Perhaps, the more successful you are, the more money you get but you then get a lower percentage of your team's revenue?

bearister said:

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GBear4Life said:

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Disappointingly, Morgan is putting her cap in the fallaciously ignorant "men get paid X, therefore, so should women".

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Just give men and women athletes the same percentage of the gate receipts. Sex discrimination issue goes bye bye.

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Female Wold Cup Players get a much higher percentage of World Cup Revenue than men.

If I were a man playing World Cup soccer I would be *&^%#$ off!

The protest will start in the qualifying rounds for the 2022 WC.

The WNBA loses money. Should their players be paid nothing?

I'm all for employees, individually or collectively, asking for more money and using their labor as leverage.

But the premise that ignores the revenue, profit and value created from such labor in favor of identitarian-based equal pay in pro sports is stupid. It's not like this is a complicated issue

Bear19 said:

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GMP said:

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But I find it is very easy for people with privilege (of many kinds) to accept wins (of many kinds) with class.

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I'm not so sure that being raised in a family "of privilege" results in an athlete displaying more "class" than athletes being raised in lesser affluent circumstances. Today we have NFL football players celebrating first downs or good tackles like they won the Super Bowl, bat flipping in MLB is now common, standing over a player who has been dunked on is common in the NBA, etc. This behavior has become pervasive, across sports at all levels. Coaches accept it for a variety of reasons. Media exacerbates this behavior by focusing on the behavior as part of the "highlights" of the game.

It detracts from the game imo. Morgan & the USWNT looked silly with their excessive "celebrations" throughout the tournament.

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In the past we have regularly ragged on professional players and college players excessive celebrations.
So obviously in men's sports excessive celebrations have become the norm.
So let the women have equal time at excessive celebrations.
We have to remember that to people playing soccer, winning the World Cup is equal to
or greater that winning the Super Bowl.

Let them have their fun.

After unheard of carnage and hundreds of thousands dead and maimed, victory was achieved, and General Grant ordered his men to treat the surrendering soldiers with dignity and respect.

When the overwhelmingly favored US team kept scoring against a defenseless Thailand, they celebrated each successive goal as if it were the clincher in a hard caught contest.
Disgusting, disheartening, and clueless.
"The Ugly American" presented to the world.