So Chris Brown.....

3,617 Views | 38 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by DenBear
CAL4LIFE
How long do you want to ignore this user?
scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
bearsandgiants
How long do you want to ignore this user?
that non-call helped us run out the clock, though. we got the bad end of about 8 calls in that game, and only one questionable call in our favor. a PI, that could have gone either way. it makes this win just that much sweeter. watched the game in 60 last night. this team is amazing. and having a team that's better on D than O is the key to winning on the road. there isn't as much panic on the road for a defense. it's quieter, and you're pumped to make a play. it's offense on the road, against the loud crowds, that can really rattle the qb. our flip to being a defensive team is the reason we're winning some of these games. it's glorious. i hope we don't overlook north texas, and i can't wait for ole miss!
Bear_Territory
How long do you want to ignore this user?
There was no replay view from the far side of the field, there is always replay view from both sides of the goal line. How very...odd.
GMP
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Bear_Territory said:

There was no replay view from the far side of the field, there is always replay view from both sides of the goal line. How very...odd.


And if you check the highlights, there IS a cameraman kneeling on that far sideline, right on the goal line, visible in the background. I was guessing either technical issues or maybe his shot was obscured by the official and they didn't want to show that?
orindabear74
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I thought that Brown scored when I saw Moraga's video.
burritos
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Just from an understanding of physics it was 99% obvious to me that that was a TD. I kept yelling at my wife (as if she could answer my question)"How could that not be a TD?" However I can acknowledge that it was possible that his knee may have glanced along ground(even though he laid upon a defender) before the ball crossed the goal line. Visually it looked like the ball must have crossed the goal line upon his fall, but the announcer did mention that he say that the defender was pulling the ball back as CB fell. This is something we could not rule out with the replays available.
71Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
CAL4LIFE said:

scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
There was no conclusively definitive shot that showed him over the goal. Therefore, the call on the field must stand. I had no argument with that. I simply could not tell if the ball crossed the goal line.

Quite frankly, I thought it was one of the better officiated games. Based just on this game, it appears the work the P12 is doing is finally paying off. A big shoutout to Ray Anderson, former NFL officiating executive and current ASU AD, for taking the lead on fixing the problem.
OdontoBear66
How long do you want to ignore this user?
My guess is that the call on the field was definitely "no touchdown" in which case the TV replay had to have absolute evidence in order to overturn. I sure thought it looked like a TD in every clip I saw but I cannot say that I could see every aspect of knees, hips, elbows, etc. just before the ball went over. So since they were in Seattle the easier (and able to justify) call was no TD. However we came out fine, but calls like this and many more always seem to go with the big schools who have had the solid reputations for years (the 'bamas, the NDs, the $Cs, etc.). Just seems to coincidentally happen that way and my suspicion is unless the underdog just kills an opponent, watch out. Same thing in BB with big stars who they don't tend to foul out of games. If you are the stud you get away with a lot more than journeyman players.d JMHO
BoaltBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I was sitting in the club level above the play on the same side as the camera angle. Seeing it live from that elevation I thought for sure it was a touchdown.

There's no way his momentum did not get that ball over the goal line. He fell forward, then down. I believe the ball was over the line while he was still elevated in the pile, before the camera shot of him getting off the ground when the pile finally lifts.

I can't believe they didn't call that a touchdown on the field. The lack of a call obviously impacted the review.
NVBear78
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The replays were not definitive but the call on the field was totally wrong. This was kind of the opposite of the game where the ref's overturned three straight TD calls on the field!
OaktownBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
71Bear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
There was no conclusively definitive shot that showed him over the goal. Therefore, the call on the field must stand. I had no argument with that. I simply could not tell if the ball crossed the goal line.

Quite frankly, I thought it was one of the better officiated games. Based just on this game, it appears the work the P12 is doing is finally paying off. A big shoutout to Ray Anderson, former NFL officiating executive and current ASU AD, for taking the lead on fixing the problem.
I had no problem with the call itself, but a statement and a complaint:

1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.

2. Complaint - why couldn't we see it? There should always be a camera on both sides of the goal line. Certainly there should be when a team is in a goal to go situation. Why were the camera angles so poor? The call stood on the field because there wasn't a camera angle that was even close to showing the play or that frankly ever could have shown the play. I don't remember a play that had such bad camera angles which is even more ridiculous when you consider it was obvious the play was either going to be a kneel or us running it up the middle and trying to plow over the goal line.
Uthaithani
How long do you want to ignore this user?
CAL4LIFE said:

scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
The second part of this question is valid and the Pac 12 should address this. The first part, I'll give the officials the benefit of the doubt, considering that overall this was a very well-called game. I thought the reffing in this game was a lot better than the UCD game, as it should be.
GivemTheAxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
CAL4LIFE said:

scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?

Agree. After watching the replay it is clear that CB's shoulder and upper body are well over the line. The ball had to be beyond the goal line unless CB was holding the ball at his waist.
And as the players are unpicked the ball is clearly on and inches beyond the goal line.
Maybe I am wrong but even if the football had merely been on the goal line and not over it, that should have "broken the plane" of the goal.
OdontoBear66
How long do you want to ignore this user?
OaktownBear said:

71Bear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
There was no conclusively definitive shot that showed him over the goal. Therefore, the call on the field must stand. I had no argument with that. I simply could not tell if the ball crossed the goal line.

Quite frankly, I thought it was one of the better officiated games. Based just on this game, it appears the work the P12 is doing is finally paying off. A big shoutout to Ray Anderson, former NFL officiating executive and current ASU AD, for taking the lead on fixing the problem.
I had no problem with the call itself, but a statement and a complaint:

1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.

2. Complaint - why couldn't we see it? There should always be a camera on both sides of the goal line. Certainly there should be when a team is in a goal to go situation. Why were the camera angles so poor? The call stood on the field because there wasn't a camera angle that was even close to showing the play or that frankly ever could have shown the play. I don't remember a play that had such bad camera angles which is even more ridiculous when you consider it was obvious the play was either going to be a kneel or us running it up the middle and trying to plow over the goal line.
From what I have said on posts before this one, if we reverse the situation, the call would have had to have been a TD...What I mean by that is that had it been called a TD, there was not sufficient evidence to overturn that call. So officials can effect situations with the initial call being incorrect as the evidence needs to be overpowering to overturn. Minor point, but does have some merit. Part of this is that "big entertainment" likes to have the likes of tOSU, Alabama, ND, etc. at the end of the season occupying prime time.
CALiforniALUM
How long do you want to ignore this user?
OaktownBear said:


1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.


Are you saying the rule is the ref has to visually see the ball physically cross the goal line?

Seems to me they should call it how it looks and then let video review over turn the call. How many times does a player go into a pile only to have it called a TD because what else could it be? In our case not only was the RB's body partly across the line, but he was on top of another player that surely kept him from hitting the ground.
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
CALiforniALUM said:

OaktownBear said:


1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.


Are you saying the rule is the ref has to visually see the ball physically cross the goal line?

Seems to me they should call it how it looks and then let video review over turn the call. How many times does a player go into a pile only to have it called a TD because what else could it be? In our case not only was the RB's body partly across the line, but he was on top of another player that surely kept him from hitting the ground.



Lol, in the Big Game with the 3 TDs in a row called back, there was a fumble with both sides piling on. A Cal player emerges from the south side of the pike with the ball and runs to the sideline presenting the ball to the student section. Meanwhile, the ref, on the north side of the pile obviously doesn't see any of that and continues to stand over the pile as players get up before looking down presumably seeing an imaginary ball and emphatically indicating Stanford ball.
71Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
CALiforniALUM said:

OaktownBear said:


1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.


Are you saying the rule is the ref has to visually see the ball physically cross the goal line?

Seems to me they should call it how it looks and then let video review over turn the call. How many times does a player go into a pile only to have it called a TD because what else could it be? In our case not only was the RB's body partly across the line, but he was on top of another player that surely kept him from hitting the ground.

An official (not necessarily, the referee) must see the ball cross the goal line in order for a TD to be called.
71Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
OdontoBear66 said:

OaktownBear said:

71Bear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
There was no conclusively definitive shot that showed him over the goal. Therefore, the call on the field must stand. I had no argument with that. I simply could not tell if the ball crossed the goal line.

Quite frankly, I thought it was one of the better officiated games. Based just on this game, it appears the work the P12 is doing is finally paying off. A big shoutout to Ray Anderson, former NFL officiating executive and current ASU AD, for taking the lead on fixing the problem.
I had no problem with the call itself, but a statement and a complaint:

1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.

2. Complaint - why couldn't we see it? There should always be a camera on both sides of the goal line. Certainly there should be when a team is in a goal to go situation. Why were the camera angles so poor? The call stood on the field because there wasn't a camera angle that was even close to showing the play or that frankly ever could have shown the play. I don't remember a play that had such bad camera angles which is even more ridiculous when you consider it was obvious the play was either going to be a kneel or us running it up the middle and trying to plow over the goal line.
From what I have said on posts before this one, if we reverse the situation, the call would have had to have been a TD...What I mean by that is that had it been called a TD, there was not sufficient evidence to overturn that call. So officials can effect situations with the initial call being incorrect as the evidence needs to be overpowering to overturn. Minor point, but does have some merit. Part of this is that "big entertainment" likes to have the likes of tOSU, Alabama, ND, etc. at the end of the season occupying prime time.
At games between P12 conference members, all the replay officials work for the P12. They are not concerned about Alabama, Notre Dame or Ohio State. (you have just taken crazy conspiracy theories to a level never seen by humankind)
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
71Bear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

OaktownBear said:

71Bear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
There was no conclusively definitive shot that showed him over the goal. Therefore, the call on the field must stand. I had no argument with that. I simply could not tell if the ball crossed the goal line.

Quite frankly, I thought it was one of the better officiated games. Based just on this game, it appears the work the P12 is doing is finally paying off. A big shoutout to Ray Anderson, former NFL officiating executive and current ASU AD, for taking the lead on fixing the problem.
I had no problem with the call itself, but a statement and a complaint:

1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.

2. Complaint - why couldn't we see it? There should always be a camera on both sides of the goal line. Certainly there should be when a team is in a goal to go situation. Why were the camera angles so poor? The call stood on the field because there wasn't a camera angle that was even close to showing the play or that frankly ever could have shown the play. I don't remember a play that had such bad camera angles which is even more ridiculous when you consider it was obvious the play was either going to be a kneel or us running it up the middle and trying to plow over the goal line.
From what I have said on posts before this one, if we reverse the situation, the call would have had to have been a TD...What I mean by that is that had it been called a TD, there was not sufficient evidence to overturn that call. So officials can effect situations with the initial call being incorrect as the evidence needs to be overpowering to overturn. Minor point, but does have some merit. Part of this is that "big entertainment" likes to have the likes of tOSU, Alabama, ND, etc. at the end of the season occupying prime time.
At games between P12 conference members, all the replay officials work for the P12. They are not concerned about Alabama, Notre Dame or Ohio State. (you have just taken crazy conspiracy theories to a level never seen by humankind)


You must have missed the Pac-12 refereeing scandal, still unresolvedwith Pac-12 refs publicly stating the Pac-12 office repeatedly intervened in the replay booth to help high ranked Pac-12 teams stay high ranked (and bring in $millions for the league from a playoff berth).
OdontoBear66
How long do you want to ignore this user?
71Bear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

OaktownBear said:

71Bear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
There was no conclusively definitive shot that showed him over the goal. Therefore, the call on the field must stand. I had no argument with that. I simply could not tell if the ball crossed the goal line.

Quite frankly, I thought it was one of the better officiated games. Based just on this game, it appears the work the P12 is doing is finally paying off. A big shoutout to Ray Anderson, former NFL officiating executive and current ASU AD, for taking the lead on fixing the problem.
I had no problem with the call itself, but a statement and a complaint:

1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.

2. Complaint - why couldn't we see it? There should always be a camera on both sides of the goal line. Certainly there should be when a team is in a goal to go situation. Why were the camera angles so poor? The call stood on the field because there wasn't a camera angle that was even close to showing the play or that frankly ever could have shown the play. I don't remember a play that had such bad camera angles which is even more ridiculous when you consider it was obvious the play was either going to be a kneel or us running it up the middle and trying to plow over the goal line.
From what I have said on posts before this one, if we reverse the situation, the call would have had to have been a TD...What I mean by that is that had it been called a TD, there was not sufficient evidence to overturn that call. So officials can effect situations with the initial call being incorrect as the evidence needs to be overpowering to overturn. Minor point, but does have some merit. Part of this is that "big entertainment" likes to have the likes of tOSU, Alabama, ND, etc. at the end of the season occupying prime time.
At games between P12 conference members, all the replay officials work for the P12. They are not concerned about Alabama, Notre Dame or Ohio State. (you have just taken crazy conspiracy theories to a level never seen by humankind)
We have been fans of college sports for roughly the same amount of time, and you really believe that the powerhouse schools and powerhouse stars do not get special treatment for whatever reason? You gotta be kidding me. Subtle as can be, but there.
mdcspe69
How long do you want to ignore this user?
As a former high school football official, the problem I had with the call is that you could not tell when or whether or not he was down. Nor could any of the officials see it. When they came into the pile none had marked the ball. Therefore, the spot of the ball should have been where it laid as they unpiled. That was in the endzone. It should have been ruled a touchdown. However, in hindsight I am glad that it was not because we were able to run out the clock.
71Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calumnus said:

71Bear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

OaktownBear said:

71Bear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
There was no conclusively definitive shot that showed him over the goal. Therefore, the call on the field must stand. I had no argument with that. I simply could not tell if the ball crossed the goal line.

Quite frankly, I thought it was one of the better officiated games. Based just on this game, it appears the work the P12 is doing is finally paying off. A big shoutout to Ray Anderson, former NFL officiating executive and current ASU AD, for taking the lead on fixing the problem.
I had no problem with the call itself, but a statement and a complaint:

1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.

2. Complaint - why couldn't we see it? There should always be a camera on both sides of the goal line. Certainly there should be when a team is in a goal to go situation. Why were the camera angles so poor? The call stood on the field because there wasn't a camera angle that was even close to showing the play or that frankly ever could have shown the play. I don't remember a play that had such bad camera angles which is even more ridiculous when you consider it was obvious the play was either going to be a kneel or us running it up the middle and trying to plow over the goal line.
From what I have said on posts before this one, if we reverse the situation, the call would have had to have been a TD...What I mean by that is that had it been called a TD, there was not sufficient evidence to overturn that call. So officials can effect situations with the initial call being incorrect as the evidence needs to be overpowering to overturn. Minor point, but does have some merit. Part of this is that "big entertainment" likes to have the likes of tOSU, Alabama, ND, etc. at the end of the season occupying prime time.
At games between P12 conference members, all the replay officials work for the P12. They are not concerned about Alabama, Notre Dame or Ohio State. (you have just taken crazy conspiracy theories to a level never seen by humankind)


You must have missed the Pac-12 refereeing scandal, still unresolvedwith Pac-12 refs publicly stating the Pac-12 office repeatedly intervened in the replay booth to help high ranked Pac-12 teams stay high ranked (and bring in $millions for the league from a playoff berth).
You must have missed my reference to the poster's comment about Alabama, Ohio State, Notre Dame. None of those schools are in the P12. Also, there is only one known incident where a replay official was influenced by a senior administrator. After reading Wilner's column about the changes that were made to the replay review process this year, I have full confidence in the conference's replay officials.

71Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
OdontoBear66 said:

71Bear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

OaktownBear said:

71Bear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
There was no conclusively definitive shot that showed him over the goal. Therefore, the call on the field must stand. I had no argument with that. I simply could not tell if the ball crossed the goal line.

Quite frankly, I thought it was one of the better officiated games. Based just on this game, it appears the work the P12 is doing is finally paying off. A big shoutout to Ray Anderson, former NFL officiating executive and current ASU AD, for taking the lead on fixing the problem.
I had no problem with the call itself, but a statement and a complaint:

1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.

2. Complaint - why couldn't we see it? There should always be a camera on both sides of the goal line. Certainly there should be when a team is in a goal to go situation. Why were the camera angles so poor? The call stood on the field because there wasn't a camera angle that was even close to showing the play or that frankly ever could have shown the play. I don't remember a play that had such bad camera angles which is even more ridiculous when you consider it was obvious the play was either going to be a kneel or us running it up the middle and trying to plow over the goal line.
From what I have said on posts before this one, if we reverse the situation, the call would have had to have been a TD...What I mean by that is that had it been called a TD, there was not sufficient evidence to overturn that call. So officials can effect situations with the initial call being incorrect as the evidence needs to be overpowering to overturn. Minor point, but does have some merit. Part of this is that "big entertainment" likes to have the likes of tOSU, Alabama, ND, etc. at the end of the season occupying prime time.
At games between P12 conference members, all the replay officials work for the P12. They are not concerned about Alabama, Notre Dame or Ohio State. (you have just taken crazy conspiracy theories to a level never seen by humankind)
We have been fans of college sports for roughly the same amount of time, and you really believe that the powerhouse schools and powerhouse stars do not get special treatment for whatever reason? You gotta be kidding me. Subtle as can be, but there.
Something tells me that the P12 officials don't give a damn about Ohio State, Notre Dame or Alabama. If you think otherwise, well, that tells me everything I need to know....

BearGoggles
How long do you want to ignore this user?
71Bear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

71Bear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

OaktownBear said:

71Bear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
There was no conclusively definitive shot that showed him over the goal. Therefore, the call on the field must stand. I had no argument with that. I simply could not tell if the ball crossed the goal line.

Quite frankly, I thought it was one of the better officiated games. Based just on this game, it appears the work the P12 is doing is finally paying off. A big shoutout to Ray Anderson, former NFL officiating executive and current ASU AD, for taking the lead on fixing the problem.
I had no problem with the call itself, but a statement and a complaint:

1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.

2. Complaint - why couldn't we see it? There should always be a camera on both sides of the goal line. Certainly there should be when a team is in a goal to go situation. Why were the camera angles so poor? The call stood on the field because there wasn't a camera angle that was even close to showing the play or that frankly ever could have shown the play. I don't remember a play that had such bad camera angles which is even more ridiculous when you consider it was obvious the play was either going to be a kneel or us running it up the middle and trying to plow over the goal line.
From what I have said on posts before this one, if we reverse the situation, the call would have had to have been a TD...What I mean by that is that had it been called a TD, there was not sufficient evidence to overturn that call. So officials can effect situations with the initial call being incorrect as the evidence needs to be overpowering to overturn. Minor point, but does have some merit. Part of this is that "big entertainment" likes to have the likes of tOSU, Alabama, ND, etc. at the end of the season occupying prime time.
At games between P12 conference members, all the replay officials work for the P12. They are not concerned about Alabama, Notre Dame or Ohio State. (you have just taken crazy conspiracy theories to a level never seen by humankind)
We have been fans of college sports for roughly the same amount of time, and you really believe that the powerhouse schools and powerhouse stars do not get special treatment for whatever reason? You gotta be kidding me. Subtle as can be, but there.
Something tells me that the P12 officials don't give a damn about Ohio State, Notre Dame or Alabama. If you think otherwise, well, that tells me everything I need to know....


They don't care about those other schools. But official do care about (and respond to) pressure from P12 management and seek to make their bosses happy. And those in P12 management definitely want the more prominent programs (currently USC, Furd, UW and Oregon ) to be highly ranked and hopefully make the BCS. If you think the refs aren't aware of that dynamic and the prominent schools don't get special treatment, then you are ignoring reality.
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearGoggles said:

71Bear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

71Bear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

OaktownBear said:

71Bear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
There was no conclusively definitive shot that showed him over the goal. Therefore, the call on the field must stand. I had no argument with that. I simply could not tell if the ball crossed the goal line.

Quite frankly, I thought it was one of the better officiated games. Based just on this game, it appears the work the P12 is doing is finally paying off. A big shoutout to Ray Anderson, former NFL officiating executive and current ASU AD, for taking the lead on fixing the problem.
I had no problem with the call itself, but a statement and a complaint:

1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.

2. Complaint - why couldn't we see it? There should always be a camera on both sides of the goal line. Certainly there should be when a team is in a goal to go situation. Why were the camera angles so poor? The call stood on the field because there wasn't a camera angle that was even close to showing the play or that frankly ever could have shown the play. I don't remember a play that had such bad camera angles which is even more ridiculous when you consider it was obvious the play was either going to be a kneel or us running it up the middle and trying to plow over the goal line.
From what I have said on posts before this one, if we reverse the situation, the call would have had to have been a TD...What I mean by that is that had it been called a TD, there was not sufficient evidence to overturn that call. So officials can effect situations with the initial call being incorrect as the evidence needs to be overpowering to overturn. Minor point, but does have some merit. Part of this is that "big entertainment" likes to have the likes of tOSU, Alabama, ND, etc. at the end of the season occupying prime time.
At games between P12 conference members, all the replay officials work for the P12. They are not concerned about Alabama, Notre Dame or Ohio State. (you have just taken crazy conspiracy theories to a level never seen by humankind)
We have been fans of college sports for roughly the same amount of time, and you really believe that the powerhouse schools and powerhouse stars do not get special treatment for whatever reason? You gotta be kidding me. Subtle as can be, but there.
Something tells me that the P12 officials don't give a damn about Ohio State, Notre Dame or Alabama. If you think otherwise, well, that tells me everything I need to know....


They don't care about those other schools. But official do care about (and respond to) pressure from P12 management and seek to make their bosses happy. And those in P12 management definitely want the more prominent programs (currently USC, Furd, UW and Oregon ) to be highly ranked and hopefully make the BCS. If you think the refs aren't aware of that dynamic and the prominent schools don't get special treatment, then you are ignoring reality.


The Pac-12 refs have publicly complained about it, it was a national scandal a year ago.
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
71Bear said:

calumnus said:

71Bear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

OaktownBear said:

71Bear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
There was no conclusively definitive shot that showed him over the goal. Therefore, the call on the field must stand. I had no argument with that. I simply could not tell if the ball crossed the goal line.

Quite frankly, I thought it was one of the better officiated games. Based just on this game, it appears the work the P12 is doing is finally paying off. A big shoutout to Ray Anderson, former NFL officiating executive and current ASU AD, for taking the lead on fixing the problem.
I had no problem with the call itself, but a statement and a complaint:

1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.

2. Complaint - why couldn't we see it? There should always be a camera on both sides of the goal line. Certainly there should be when a team is in a goal to go situation. Why were the camera angles so poor? The call stood on the field because there wasn't a camera angle that was even close to showing the play or that frankly ever could have shown the play. I don't remember a play that had such bad camera angles which is even more ridiculous when you consider it was obvious the play was either going to be a kneel or us running it up the middle and trying to plow over the goal line.
From what I have said on posts before this one, if we reverse the situation, the call would have had to have been a TD...What I mean by that is that had it been called a TD, there was not sufficient evidence to overturn that call. So officials can effect situations with the initial call being incorrect as the evidence needs to be overpowering to overturn. Minor point, but does have some merit. Part of this is that "big entertainment" likes to have the likes of tOSU, Alabama, ND, etc. at the end of the season occupying prime time.
At games between P12 conference members, all the replay officials work for the P12. They are not concerned about Alabama, Notre Dame or Ohio State. (you have just taken crazy conspiracy theories to a level never seen by humankind)


You must have missed the Pac-12 refereeing scandal, still unresolvedwith Pac-12 refs publicly stating the Pac-12 office repeatedly intervened in the replay booth to help high ranked Pac-12 teams stay high ranked (and bring in $millions for the league from a playoff berth).
You must have missed my reference to the poster's comment about Alabama, Ohio State, Notre Dame. None of those schools are in the P12. Also, there is only one known incident where a replay official was influenced by a senior administrator. After reading Wilner's column about the changes that were made to the replay review process this year, I have full confidence in the conference's replay officials.



Ok, his examples were poor.

It wasn't just one game, the refs came forward to call Scott out saying it was multiple games. I am willing the bet that notorious Big Game was one of them. The landslide win helped get Stanford into the BCS. The Pac-12 head of officials quit over more than just the replay booth. Scott's incentive is still there, he just changed his tactics.

The good news is if we keep winning and get ranked, we might start to get the benefit. Though it would be just our luck the Pac-12 ends the practice just when we get good again.
OdontoBear66
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearGoggles said:

71Bear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

71Bear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

OaktownBear said:

71Bear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
There was no conclusively definitive shot that showed him over the goal. Therefore, the call on the field must stand. I had no argument with that. I simply could not tell if the ball crossed the goal line.

Quite frankly, I thought it was one of the better officiated games. Based just on this game, it appears the work the P12 is doing is finally paying off. A big shoutout to Ray Anderson, former NFL officiating executive and current ASU AD, for taking the lead on fixing the problem.
I had no problem with the call itself, but a statement and a complaint:

1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.

2. Complaint - why couldn't we see it? There should always be a camera on both sides of the goal line. Certainly there should be when a team is in a goal to go situation. Why were the camera angles so poor? The call stood on the field because there wasn't a camera angle that was even close to showing the play or that frankly ever could have shown the play. I don't remember a play that had such bad camera angles which is even more ridiculous when you consider it was obvious the play was either going to be a kneel or us running it up the middle and trying to plow over the goal line.
From what I have said on posts before this one, if we reverse the situation, the call would have had to have been a TD...What I mean by that is that had it been called a TD, there was not sufficient evidence to overturn that call. So officials can effect situations with the initial call being incorrect as the evidence needs to be overpowering to overturn. Minor point, but does have some merit. Part of this is that "big entertainment" likes to have the likes of tOSU, Alabama, ND, etc. at the end of the season occupying prime time.
At games between P12 conference members, all the replay officials work for the P12. They are not concerned about Alabama, Notre Dame or Ohio State. (you have just taken crazy conspiracy theories to a level never seen by humankind)
We have been fans of college sports for roughly the same amount of time, and you really believe that the powerhouse schools and powerhouse stars do not get special treatment for whatever reason? You gotta be kidding me. Subtle as can be, but there.
Something tells me that the P12 officials don't give a damn about Ohio State, Notre Dame or Alabama. If you think otherwise, well, that tells me everything I need to know....


They don't care about those other schools. But official do care about (and respond to) pressure from P12 management and seek to make their bosses happy. And those in P12 management definitely want the more prominent programs (currently USC, Furd, UW and Oregon ) to be highly ranked and hopefully make the BCS. If you think the refs aren't aware of that dynamic and the prominent schools don't get special treatment, then you are ignoring reality.
Thank you for this moment of sanity. Example of power schools getting advantage in all situations.
71Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calumnus said:

71Bear said:

calumnus said:

71Bear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

OaktownBear said:

71Bear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
There was no conclusively definitive shot that showed him over the goal. Therefore, the call on the field must stand. I had no argument with that. I simply could not tell if the ball crossed the goal line.

Quite frankly, I thought it was one of the better officiated games. Based just on this game, it appears the work the P12 is doing is finally paying off. A big shoutout to Ray Anderson, former NFL officiating executive and current ASU AD, for taking the lead on fixing the problem.
I had no problem with the call itself, but a statement and a complaint:

1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.

2. Complaint - why couldn't we see it? There should always be a camera on both sides of the goal line. Certainly there should be when a team is in a goal to go situation. Why were the camera angles so poor? The call stood on the field because there wasn't a camera angle that was even close to showing the play or that frankly ever could have shown the play. I don't remember a play that had such bad camera angles which is even more ridiculous when you consider it was obvious the play was either going to be a kneel or us running it up the middle and trying to plow over the goal line.
From what I have said on posts before this one, if we reverse the situation, the call would have had to have been a TD...What I mean by that is that had it been called a TD, there was not sufficient evidence to overturn that call. So officials can effect situations with the initial call being incorrect as the evidence needs to be overpowering to overturn. Minor point, but does have some merit. Part of this is that "big entertainment" likes to have the likes of tOSU, Alabama, ND, etc. at the end of the season occupying prime time.
At games between P12 conference members, all the replay officials work for the P12. They are not concerned about Alabama, Notre Dame or Ohio State. (you have just taken crazy conspiracy theories to a level never seen by humankind)


You must have missed the Pac-12 refereeing scandal, still unresolvedwith Pac-12 refs publicly stating the Pac-12 office repeatedly intervened in the replay booth to help high ranked Pac-12 teams stay high ranked (and bring in $millions for the league from a playoff berth).
You must have missed my reference to the poster's comment about Alabama, Ohio State, Notre Dame. None of those schools are in the P12. Also, there is only one known incident where a replay official was influenced by a senior administrator. After reading Wilner's column about the changes that were made to the replay review process this year, I have full confidence in the conference's replay officials.



Ok, his examples were poor.

It wasn't just one game, the refs came forward to call Scott out saying it was multiple games. I am willing the bet that notorious Big Game was one of them. The landslide win helped get Stanford into the BCS. The Pac-12 head of officials quit over more than just the replay booth. Scott's incentive is still there, he just changed his tactics.

The good news is if we keep winning and get ranked, we might start to get the benefit. Though it would be just our luck the Pac-12 ends the practice just when we get good again.
Exactly my original point - his examples were nuts. Anyone who suggests P12 officials care about the impact of their decisions on schools from other conferences is wrong...
71Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
OdontoBear66 said:

BearGoggles said:

71Bear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

71Bear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

OaktownBear said:

71Bear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

66scored a touchdown on the last drive. It didn't matter because Cal won with a FG. But does it bother anyone here that in 2019 the P12 still has incompetent officials who can't make definitive decisions on obvious calls, and that replay setups for P12 games are inferior to other conferences?
There was no conclusively definitive shot that showed him over the goal. Therefore, the call on the field must stand. I had no argument with that. I simply could not tell if the ball crossed the goal line.

Quite frankly, I thought it was one of the better officiated games. Based just on this game, it appears the work the P12 is doing is finally paying off. A big shoutout to Ray Anderson, former NFL officiating executive and current ASU AD, for taking the lead on fixing the problem.
I had no problem with the call itself, but a statement and a complaint:

1. 9 times out of ten when you see what you could see, it is a touchdown. You can't call it based on what usually happens. You have to see the ball cross the plane. I think if the ref could see it and if we could see it, we would probably see that the ball crossed the plane. But we couldn't see it so the call is down.

2. Complaint - why couldn't we see it? There should always be a camera on both sides of the goal line. Certainly there should be when a team is in a goal to go situation. Why were the camera angles so poor? The call stood on the field because there wasn't a camera angle that was even close to showing the play or that frankly ever could have shown the play. I don't remember a play that had such bad camera angles which is even more ridiculous when you consider it was obvious the play was either going to be a kneel or us running it up the middle and trying to plow over the goal line.
From what I have said on posts before this one, if we reverse the situation, the call would have had to have been a TD...What I mean by that is that had it been called a TD, there was not sufficient evidence to overturn that call. So officials can effect situations with the initial call being incorrect as the evidence needs to be overpowering to overturn. Minor point, but does have some merit. Part of this is that "big entertainment" likes to have the likes of tOSU, Alabama, ND, etc. at the end of the season occupying prime time.
At games between P12 conference members, all the replay officials work for the P12. They are not concerned about Alabama, Notre Dame or Ohio State. (you have just taken crazy conspiracy theories to a level never seen by humankind)
We have been fans of college sports for roughly the same amount of time, and you really believe that the powerhouse schools and powerhouse stars do not get special treatment for whatever reason? You gotta be kidding me. Subtle as can be, but there.
Something tells me that the P12 officials don't give a damn about Ohio State, Notre Dame or Alabama. If you think otherwise, well, that tells me everything I need to know....


They don't care about those other schools. But official do care about (and respond to) pressure from P12 management and seek to make their bosses happy. And those in P12 management definitely want the more prominent programs (currently USC, Furd, UW and Oregon ) to be highly ranked and hopefully make the BCS. If you think the refs aren't aware of that dynamic and the prominent schools don't get special treatment, then you are ignoring reality.
Thank you for this moment of sanity. Example of power schools getting advantage in all situations.
Do you still contend that P12 officials care about how their decisions impact Notre Dame, Ohio State and Alabama or do you now realize that was not true?
OdontoBear66
How long do you want to ignore this user?
You are the one fixated on other conferences & Pac12 refs. My point was relating to all refs and all power reputed schools. But then you insist so Cheers
71Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
OdontoBear66 said:

You are the one fixated on other conferences & Pac12 refs. My point was relating to all refs and all power reputed schools. But then you insist so Cheers
And you were the one who raised Alabama, Ohio State and Notre Dame in your initial post on the subject. I merely brought to your attention the fact that P12 officials don't give a damn about other conferences. Regardless, cheers back to you!
Creeping Incrementalism
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Quote:

Lol, in the Big Game with the 3 TDs in a row called back, there was a fumble with both sides piling on. A Cal player emerges from the south side of the pike with the ball and runs to the sideline presenting the ball to the student section. Meanwhile, the ref, on the north side of the pile obviously doesn't see any of that and continues to stand over the pile as players get up before looking down presumably seeing an imaginary ball and emphatically indicating Stanford ball.
I think I remember that one, with the Cal player presenting the football to the crowd and a circle of officials with their backs turned staring at the (football-less) pile. I was so embarrassed for the officials I couldn't bear to look any longer, so I didn't see an official indicating Stanford ball. Did that really happen?
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Creeping Incrementalism said:

Quote:

Lol, in the Big Game with the 3 TDs in a row called back, there was a fumble with both sides piling on. A Cal player emerges from the south side of the pike with the ball and runs to the sideline presenting the ball to the student section. Meanwhile, the ref, on the north side of the pile obviously doesn't see any of that and continues to stand over the pile as players get up before looking down presumably seeing an imaginary ball and emphatically indicating Stanford ball.
I think I remember that one, with the Cal player presenting the football to the crowd and a circle of officials with their backs turned staring at the (football-less) pile. I was so embarrassed for the officials I couldn't bear to look any longer, so I didn't see an official indicating Stanford ball. Did that really happen?


Yes it did. Maybe the most blatant example of horrendously pro-Stanford slanted calls that day.
Sebastabear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Creeping Incrementalism said:

Quote:

Lol, in the Big Game with the 3 TDs in a row called back, there was a fumble with both sides piling on. A Cal player emerges from the south side of the pike with the ball and runs to the sideline presenting the ball to the student section. Meanwhile, the ref, on the north side of the pile obviously doesn't see any of that and continues to stand over the pile as players get up before looking down presumably seeing an imaginary ball and emphatically indicating Stanford ball.
I think I remember that one, with the Cal player presenting the football to the crowd and a circle of officials with their backs turned staring at the (football-less) pile. I was so embarrassed for the officials I couldn't bear to look any longer, so I didn't see an official indicating Stanford ball. Did that really happen?
Oh it definitely happened. I think we had a gif on it at one point. Will try to find.
HighlandDutch
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sebastabear said:

Creeping Incrementalism said:

Quote:

Lol, in the Big Game with the 3 TDs in a row called back, there was a fumble with both sides piling on. A Cal player emerges from the south side of the pike with the ball and runs to the sideline presenting the ball to the student section. Meanwhile, the ref, on the north side of the pile obviously doesn't see any of that and continues to stand over the pile as players get up before looking down presumably seeing an imaginary ball and emphatically indicating Stanford ball.
I think I remember that one, with the Cal player presenting the football to the crowd and a circle of officials with their backs turned staring at the (football-less) pile. I was so embarrassed for the officials I couldn't bear to look any longer, so I didn't see an official indicating Stanford ball. Did that really happen?
Oh it definitely happened. I think we had a gif on it at one point. Will try to find.


It was on an onside kick late in the game.
Page 1 of 2
 
×
Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.