KoreAmBear said:

---

CaliforniaEternal said:

---

Ron Rivera. He must have learned something about offense while coaching in the NFL all those years, right?

---

He got fired because he lost three games where he couldn't get his team to score a go ahead TD from 10 yards or closer with time running out.

---

I'd still take him as OC without hesitation. I think at Ron's level of coaching the knowledge barrier between offense and defense get proportionately smaller. Ron has had a chance to learn from competent NFL OCs for 9 seasons. There is definitely a character to the Panthers offense that has survived through the OC regimes. Ron knows how to coach an offense, even if he's not as good at it as he is coaching defense. I have a high level of respect for the ability level of NFL head coaches. They survive far more by being good at coaching football than college coaches, who succeed far more with being likable than NFL coaches can.

Cave Bear said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

CaliforniaEternal said:

---

Ron Rivera. He must have learned something about offense while coaching in the NFL all those years, right?

---

He got fired because he lost three games where he couldn't get his team to score a go ahead TD from 10 yards or closer with time running out.

---

I'd still take him as OC without hesitation. I think at Ron's level of coaching the knowledge barrier between offense and defense get proportionately smaller. Ron has had a chance to learn from competent NFL OCs for 9 seasons. There is definitely a character to the Panthers offense that has survived through the OC regimes. Ron knows how to coach an offense, even if he's not as good at it as he is coaching defense. I have a high level of respect for the ability level of NFL head coaches. They survive far more at being good at coaching football than college coaches, who succeed far more with being likable than NFL coaches can.

---

I can't shake the idea that an OC ought to come in with an offensive system - plays, blocking schemes, pass routes, timing, adjustments to defenses, etc. Ought to be experienced in designing offensive game plans from that system. Ought to be experienced in play calling from that system and making adjustments - half time and on the fly.

I don't see how someone who hasn't done this as a career (even a recent one) can put this all together in a matter of weeks before spring. A great coach may be able to lead, to motivate players and assistants, manage their side of the team, recruit, but have no foundation to work from.

We need an OC who has an O and can coach it and relate it to the hc, assistants and players and recruits.

Rushinbear said:

---

Cave Bear said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

CaliforniaEternal said:

---

Ron Rivera. He must have learned something about offense while coaching in the NFL all those years, right?

---

He got fired because he lost three games where he couldn't get his team to score a go ahead TD from 10 yards or closer with time running out.

---

I'd still take him as OC without hesitation. I think at Ron's level of coaching the knowledge barrier between offense and defense get proportionately smaller. Ron has had a chance to learn from competent NFL OCs for 9 seasons. There is definitely a character to the Panthers offense that has survived through the OC regimes. Ron knows how to coach an offense, even if he's not as good at it as he is coaching defense. I have a high level of respect for the ability level of NFL head coaches. They survive far more at being good at coaching football than college coaches, who succeed far more with being likable than NFL coaches can.

---

I can't shake the idea that an OC ought to come in with an offensive system - plays, blocking schemes, pass routes, timing, adjustments to defenses, etc. Ought to be experienced in designing offensive game plans from that system. Ought to be experienced in play calling from that system and making adjustments - half time and on the fly.

I don't see how someone who hasn't done this as a career (even a recent one) can put this all together in a matter of weeks before spring. A great coach may be able to lead, to motivate players and assistants, manage their side of the team, recruit, but have no foundation to work from.

We need an OC who has an O and can coach it and relate it to the hc, assistants and players and recruits.

---

Do we really need to debate whether Ron Rivera should be our next OC?

OaktownBear said:

---

Rushinbear said:

---

Cave Bear said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

CaliforniaEternal said:

---

Ron Rivera. He must have learned something about offense while coaching in the NFL all those years, right?

---

He got fired because he lost three games where he couldn't get his team to score a go ahead TD from 10 yards or closer with time running out.

---

I'd still take him as OC without hesitation. I think at Ron's level of coaching the knowledge barrier between offense and defense get proportionately smaller. Ron has had a chance to learn from competent NFL OCs for 9 seasons. There is definitely a character to the Panthers offense that has survived through the OC regimes. Ron knows how to coach an offense, even if he's not as good at it as he is coaching defense. I have a high level of respect for the ability level of NFL head coaches. They survive far more at being good at coaching football than college coaches, who succeed far more with being likable than NFL coaches can.

---

I can't shake the idea that an OC ought to come in with an offensive system - plays, blocking schemes, pass routes, timing, adjustments to defenses, etc. Ought to be experienced in designing offensive game plans from that system. Ought to be experienced in play calling from that system and making adjustments - half time and on the fly.

I don't see how someone who hasn't done this as a career (even a recent one) can put this all together in a matter of weeks before spring. A great coach may be able to lead, to motivate players and assistants, manage their side of the team, recruit, but have no foundation to work from.

We need an OC who has an O and can coach it and relate it to the hc, assistants and players and recruits.

---

Do we really need to debate whether Ron Rivera should be our next OC?

---

Yes







Just playing

Ron Rivera's next job will be as a head coach.

OaktownBear said:

---

Rushinbear said:

---

Cave Bear said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

CaliforniaEternal said:

---

Ron Rivera. He must have learned something about offense while coaching in the NFL all those years, right?

---

He got fired because he lost three games where he couldn't get his team to score a go ahead TD from 10 yards or closer with time running out.

---

I'd still take him as OC without hesitation. I think at Ron's level of coaching the knowledge barrier between offense and defense get proportionately smaller. Ron has had a chance to learn from competent NFL OCs for 9 seasons. There is definitely a character to the Panthers offense that has survived through the OC regimes. Ron knows how to coach an offense, even if he's not as good at it as he is coaching defense. I have a high level of respect for the ability level of NFL head coaches. They survive far more at being good at coaching football than college coaches, who succeed far more with being likable than NFL coaches can.

---

I can't shake the idea that an OC ought to come in with an offensive system - plays, blocking schemes, pass routes, timing, adjustments to defenses, etc. Ought to be experienced in designing offensive game plans from that system. Ought to be experienced in play calling from that system and making adjustments - half time and on the fly.

I don't see how someone who hasn't done this as a career (even a recent one) can put this all together in a matter of weeks before spring. A great coach may be able to lead, to motivate players and assistants, manage their side of the team, recruit, but have no foundation to work from.

We need an OC who has an O and can coach it and relate it to the hc, assistants and players and recruits.

---

Do we really need to debate whether Ron Rivera should be our next OC?

---

Nope.

Of course, this discussion reminds me of the fabled Denny Schuler. He was the DC at Oregon in 1992. In '93, Cal hired him as an OC. Following a particularly miserable offensive performance v. ASU in his first season, the word was "As an OC, Schuler coaches like a great DC".

71Bear said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

Rushinbear said:

---

Cave Bear said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

CaliforniaEternal said:

---

Ron Rivera. He must have learned something about offense while coaching in the NFL all those years, right?

---

He got fired because he lost three games where he couldn't get his team to score a go ahead TD from 10 yards or closer with time running out.

---

I'd still take him as OC without hesitation. I think at Ron's level of coaching the knowledge barrier between offense and defense get proportionately smaller. Ron has had a chance to learn from competent NFL OCs for 9 seasons. There is definitely a character to the Panthers offense that has survived through the OC regimes. Ron knows how to coach an offense, even if he's not as good at it as he is coaching defense. I have a high level of respect for the ability level of NFL head coaches. They survive far more at being good at coaching football than college coaches, who succeed far more with being likable than NFL coaches can.

---

I can't shake the idea that an OC ought to come in with an offensive system - plays, blocking schemes, pass routes, timing, adjustments to defenses, etc. Ought to be experienced in designing offensive game plans from that system. Ought to be experienced in play calling from that system and making adjustments - half time and on the fly.

I don't see how someone who hasn't done this as a career (even a recent one) can put this all together in a matter of weeks before spring. A great coach may be able to lead, to motivate players and assistants, manage their side of the team, recruit, but have no foundation to work from.

We need an OC who has an O and can coach it and relate it to the hc, assistants and players and recruits.

---

Do we really need to debate whether Ron Rivera should be our next OC?

---

Nope.

Of course, this discussion reminds me of the fabled Denny Schuler. He was the DC at Oregon in 1992. In '93, Cal hired him as an OC. Following a particularly miserable offensive performance v. ASU in his first season, the word was "As an OC, Schuler coaches like a great DC".

---

The same 1993 team that beat a UCLA team that went to the Rose Bowl, beat a desert Swarm UofA team, went on to crush Furd, win its bowl and finish in the Top 25? The only Gilby-coached team to ever finish with a winning record, much less a top 25 finish? Cal fans would give anything to have that offense on this team, that offense was excellent and only suffered when Barr went down with injury. That 1993 Cal team would almost certainly beat the 2019 team, even with Gilby as HC.

going4roses said:

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I'd rather work for Wilcox at Cal than say synder and the redskins.

---

Snyder is as bad of an owner that there is in the NFL. But money talks right?

Uthaithani said:

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71Bear said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

Rushinbear said:

---

Cave Bear said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

CaliforniaEternal said:

---

Ron Rivera. He must have learned something about offense while coaching in the NFL all those years, right?

---

He got fired because he lost three games where he couldn't get his team to score a go ahead TD from 10 yards or closer with time running out.

---

I'd still take him as OC without hesitation. I think at Ron's level of coaching the knowledge barrier between offense and defense get proportionately smaller. Ron has had a chance to learn from competent NFL OCs for 9 seasons. There is definitely a character to the Panthers offense that has survived through the OC regimes. Ron knows how to coach an offense, even if he's not as good at it as he is coaching defense. I have a high level of respect for the ability level of NFL head coaches. They survive far more at being good at coaching football than college coaches, who succeed far more with being likable than NFL coaches can.

---

I can't shake the idea that an OC ought to come in with an offensive system - plays, blocking schemes, pass routes, timing, adjustments to defenses, etc. Ought to be experienced in designing offensive game plans from that system. Ought to be experienced in play calling from that system and making adjustments - half time and on the fly.

I don't see how someone who hasn't done this as a career (even a recent one) can put this all together in a matter of weeks before spring. A great coach may be able to lead, to motivate players and assistants, manage their side of the team, recruit, but have no foundation to work from.

We need an OC who has an O and can coach it and relate it to the hc, assistants and players and recruits.

---

Do we really need to debate whether Ron Rivera should be our next OC?

---

Nope.

Of course, this discussion reminds me of the fabled Denny Schuler. He was the DC at Oregon in 1992. In '93, Cal hired him as an OC. Following a particularly miserable offensive performance v. ASU in his first season, the word was "As an OC, Schuler coaches like a great DC".

---

The same 1993 team that beat a UCLA team that went to the Rose Bowl, beat a desert Swarm UofA team, went on to crush Furd, win its bowl and finish in the Top 25? The only Gilby-coached team to ever finish with a winning record, much less a top 25 finish? Cal fans would give anything to have that offense on this team, that offense was excellent and only suffered when Barr went down with injury. That 1993 Cal team would almost certainly beat the 2019 team, even with Gilby as HC.

---

With Barr healthy that team would definitely beat this year's team, If Barr had not gone down that season, we would be talking about that team as one of the best Cal teams of the last 50 years. In our bowl game (Alamo vs Iowa?) the offense was absolutely unstoppable and I think our defense gave up some absurdly low amount of yards.

Uthaithani said:

---

71Bear said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

Rushinbear said:

---

Cave Bear said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

CaliforniaEternal said:

---

Ron Rivera. He must have learned something about offense while coaching in the NFL all those years, right?

---

He got fired because he lost three games where he couldn't get his team to score a go ahead TD from 10 yards or closer with time running out.

---

I'd still take him as OC without hesitation. I think at Ron's level of coaching the knowledge barrier between offense and defense get proportionately smaller. Ron has had a chance to learn from competent NFL OCs for 9 seasons. There is definitely a character to the Panthers offense that has survived through the OC regimes. Ron knows how to coach an offense, even if he's not as good at it as he is coaching defense. I have a high level of respect for the ability level of NFL head coaches. They survive far more at being good at coaching football than college coaches, who succeed far more with being likable than NFL coaches can.

---

I can't shake the idea that an OC ought to come in with an offensive system - plays, blocking schemes, pass routes, timing, adjustments to defenses, etc. Ought to be experienced in designing offensive game plans from that system. Ought to be experienced in play calling from that system and making adjustments - half time and on the fly.

I don't see how someone who hasn't done this as a career (even a recent one) can put this all together in a matter of weeks before spring. A great coach may be able to lead, to motivate players and assistants, manage their side of the team, recruit, but have no foundation to work from.

We need an OC who has an O and can coach it and relate it to the hc, assistants and players and recruits.

---

Do we really need to debate whether Ron Rivera should be our next OC?

---

Nope.

Of course, this discussion reminds me of the fabled Denny Schuler. He was the DC at Oregon in 1992. In '93, Cal hired him as an OC. Following a particularly miserable offensive performance v. ASU in his first season, the word was "As an OC, Schuler coaches like a great DC".

---

The same 1993 team that beat a UCLA team that went to the Rose Bowl, beat a desert Swarm UofA team, went on to crush Furd, win its bowl and finish in the Top 25? The only Gilby-coached team to ever finish with a winning record, much less a top 25 finish? Cal fans would give anything to have that offense on this team, that offense was excellent and only suffered when Barr went down with injury. That 1993 Cal team would almost certainly beat the 2019 team, even with Gilby as HC.

---

Easy there, big boy.

I think you completely missed the point - poking fun at a guy who made an unusual coaching switch. Who gives a **** about the season, numbers, etc? After a 41-0 drubbing, the mood was - we gotta find something to laugh about.

Not everything is life and death. Heck, most things in life are absurd - the ability to chuckle at those oddities is fun....

My guess of the today is Kellen Moore. There's the Boise State connection to JW. Moore has an odd resume that seems to make him a reasonable candidate....he has OC experience (checks the box) but only 1 year, in the pros and under the HC who really runs the O (so going to college where he can actually be in charge could make some sense). Plus it seems pretty likely the Cowboys are going to have changes in the coaching staff so Moore will likely be available.

tequila4kapp said:

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My guess of the today is Kellen Moore. There's the Boise State connection to JW. Moore has an odd resume that seems to make him a reasonable candidate....he has OC experience (checks the box) but only 1 year, in the pros and under the HC who really runs the O (so going to college where he can actually be in charge could make some sense). Plus it seems pretty likely the Cowboys are going to have changes in the coaching staff so Moore will likely be available.

---

Good guess... My guess would be Helfrich or Moore. Both have ties to Wilcox and college football in the west and both have an offensive coaching background and, of course, both are potential coaching casualties at the pro level.

OaktownBear said:

---

Rushinbear said:

---

Cave Bear said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

CaliforniaEternal said:

---

Ron Rivera. He must have learned something about offense while coaching in the NFL all those years, right?

---

He got fired because he lost three games where he couldn't get his team to score a go ahead TD from 10 yards or closer with time running out.

---

I'd still take him as OC without hesitation. I think at Ron's level of coaching the knowledge barrier between offense and defense get proportionately smaller. Ron has had a chance to learn from competent NFL OCs for 9 seasons. There is definitely a character to the Panthers offense that has survived through the OC regimes. Ron knows how to coach an offense, even if he's not as good at it as he is coaching defense. I have a high level of respect for the ability level of NFL head coaches. They survive far more at being good at coaching football than college coaches, who succeed far more with being likable than NFL coaches can.

---

I can't shake the idea that an OC ought to come in with an offensive system - plays, blocking schemes, pass routes, timing, adjustments to defenses, etc. Ought to be experienced in designing offensive game plans from that system. Ought to be experienced in play calling from that system and making adjustments - half time and on the fly.

I don't see how someone who hasn't done this as a career (even a recent one) can put this all together in a matter of weeks before spring. A great coach may be able to lead, to motivate players and assistants, manage their side of the team, recruit, but have no foundation to work from.

We need an OC who has an O and can coach it and relate it to the hc, assistants and players and recruits.

---

Do we really need to debate whether Ron Rivera should be our next OC?

---

LOL, you mean because it's already a done deal?

71Bear said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

My guess of the today is Kellen Moore. There's the Boise State connection to JW. Moore has an odd resume that seems to make him a reasonable candidate....he has OC experience (checks the box) but only 1 year, in the pros and under the HC who really runs the O (so going to college where he can actually be in charge could make some sense). Plus it seems pretty likely the Cowboys are going to have changes in the coaching staff so Moore will likely be available.

---

Good guess... My guess would be Helfrich or Moore. Both have ties to Wilcox and college football in the west and both have an offensive coaching background and, of course, both are potential coaching casualties at the pro level.

---

Helfrich makes me nervous. Just about the only year he didn't work under Chip Kelly or have Scott Frost as his OC the Ducks were horrible. And the Chicago Bear's O has sucked with him as their OC.

tequila4kapp said:

---

71Bear said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

My guess of the today is Kellen Moore. There's the Boise State connection to JW. Moore has an odd resume that seems to make him a reasonable candidate....he has OC experience (checks the box) but only 1 year, in the pros and under the HC who really runs the O (so going to college where he can actually be in charge could make some sense). Plus it seems pretty likely the Cowboys are going to have changes in the coaching staff so Moore will likely be available.

---

Good guess... My guess would be Helfrich or Moore. Both have ties to Wilcox and college football in the west and both have an offensive coaching background and, of course, both are potential coaching casualties at the pro level.

---

Helfrich makes me nervous. Just about the only year he didn't work under Chip Kelly or have Scott Frost as his OC the Ducks were horrible. And the Chicago Bear's O has sucked with him as their OC.

---

(you will notice that I did not endorse either guy, I just suggested that Wilcox will select one of them). My choice would be Mike Sanford. He did a nice job working with Jordan Love this year at Utah State and he has a strong background coaching in the west.

On Eric Keisau's title in 2011:

I apologize if I continually provide faulty information.
I post a lot and I sometimes can't cross check facts.
I also think I am accurate a good deal of the time and often times provide accurate information when the board is entirely devoid of it.

When I cross checked Eric Keisau 2011 at Cal, I found I was mistaken. I thought he was co-oc with Michalczik. It seems he was just a WR coach officially and also a "passing game coordinator".

If my memory serves me correctly, I'm pretty sure that back then Joe Starkey mentioned that Keisau was helping with game planning and play calling, at least on passing plays. But I could be again be providing false information so it would help if someone else corroborated that.

Also, even without that tidbit, I find it exceedingly hard to fathom how a "passing game coordinator" works with just the WRs. Yes he was the WR coach, but as passing game coordinator, he must have worked with the rest of the offense and those coaches, including Arroyo and Michalczik to develop a solid passing game.

That does not mean that he developed Maynard or any other Cal QB in 2011. But it most certainly means, if true he was taking on duties similar to an offensive coordinator.

After Keisau left in 2011, Michalczik stayed on in 2012 as OC and the offense suffered comparatively. The talent level was similar to the 2011 squad but the performance and the play calling suffered, as I recall. Yes Maynard's passer rating was slightly higher in 2012, but only slightly and you'd expect a second year starter to make more progress. Points/game declined significantly--by more than 25%. The only offensive coach to leave between 2011 and 2012 was Keisau.

Because I think coaching matters, I have been monitoring the difference in performance when Cal coaches come and go. Keisau was one of those guys, along with Wilcox (LBs) and Cortez (OC) that made a difference at Cal. Keisau's units advanced and declined depending according to his presence on the staff.

It is true that the starkest difference was at WR, when Kevin Daft coached WRs both before and after Keisau.

Point is that Wilcox would know whether or not Keisau has a track record with play calling. And, I would hope that solid play calling would be a big consideration in hiring a new OC. The SF 49ers and the NO Saints would not be playoff bound right now without high level play calling. It makes a difference.

I do think that plays are limited without a solid OL, but we should have a pretty good one next year and I hope we get considerably less conservative at OC than we were under Baldwin. We have a competent QB and some WRs that can get downfield. We should have a good enough run game to open up play action, etc. Now is a good time to hire an OC known for imaginative play calling. It doesn't have to be Gus Malzan or even Keisau. I just want someone that is willing to pass on 1st down.

BTW, Wilcox has implied that passing on first down is not advisable, but that is only if it isn't successful. And Rex Ryan of the NFL network said that running on 1st down is the worst down to run on because defenses tend to load the box more on that down. It is better to run on 2nd and 3rd. Rex Ryan coached for 30 years. Under Baldwin/Wilcox, Cal usually ran on 1st down and threw on 2nd down. When they broke out of that later in the year, the offense became more productive.

heartofthebear said:

---

On Eric Keisau's title in 2011:

I apologize if I continually provide faulty information.
I post a lot and I sometimes can't cross check facts.
I also think I am accurate a good deal of the time and often times provide accurate information when the board is entirely devoid of it.

When I cross checked Eric Keisau 2011 at Cal, I found I was mistaken. I thought he was co-oc with Michalczik. It seems he was just a WR coach officially and also a "passing game coordinator".

If my memory serves me correctly, I'm pretty sure that back then Joe Starkey mentioned that Keisau was helping with game planning and play calling, at least on passing plays. But I could be again be providing false information so it would help if someone else corroborated that.

Also, even without that tidbit, I find it exceedingly hard to fathom how a "passing game coordinator" works with just the WRs. Yes he was the WR coach, but as passing game coordinator, he must have worked with the rest of the offense and those coaches, including Arroyo and Michalczik to develop a solid passing game.

That does not mean that he developed Maynard or any other Cal QB in 2011. But it most certainly means, if true he was taking on duties similar to an offensive coordinator.

After Keisau left in 2011, Michalczik stayed on in 2012 as OC and the offense suffered comparatively. The talent level was similar to the 2011 squad but the performance and the play calling suffered, as I recall. Yes Maynard's passer rating was slightly higher in 2012, but only slightly and you'd expect a second year starter to make more progress. Points/game declined significantly--by more than 25%. The only offensive coach to leave between 2011 and 2012 was Keisau.

Because I think coaching matters, I have been monitoring the difference in performance when Cal coaches come and go. Keisau was one of those guys, along with Wilcox (LBs) and Cortez (OC) that made a difference at Cal. Keisau's units advanced and declined depending according to his presence on the staff.

It is true that the starkest difference was at WR, when Kevin Daft coached WRs both before and after Keisau.

Point is that Wilcox would know whether or not Keisau has a track record with play calling. And, I would hope that solid play calling would be a big consideration in hiring a new OC. The SF 49ers and the NO Saints would not be playoff bound right now without high level play calling. It makes a difference.

I do think that plays are limited without a solid OL, but we should have a pretty good one next year and I hope we get considerably less conservative at OC than we were under Baldwin. We have a competent QB and some WRs that can get downfield. We should have a good enough run game to open up play action, etc. Now is a good time to hire an OC known for imaginative play calling. It doesn't have to be Gus Malzan or even Keisau. I just want someone that is willing to pass on 1st down.

BTW, Wilcox has implied that passing on first down is not advisable, but that is only if it isn't successful. And Rex Ryan of the NFL network said that running on 1st down is the worst down to run on because defenses tend to load the box more on that down. It is better to run on 2nd and 3rd. Rex Ryan coached for 30 years. Under Baldwin/Wilcox, Cal usually ran on 1st down and threw on 2nd down. When they broke out of that later in the year, the offense became more productive.

---

Agreed. For much of the last three years our play calling was very predictable. If we didn't run on first down we often went empty backfield which just signals to the defense what you are doing (either a pass or a QB draw).

Because everyone expects you to run on first down I am a big proponent of lining up in a power formation and a healthy dose of play action passing on first down, especially to the TEs who can initially fake a run block. Roughly a 50-50 mix, just to keep the defense from crashing the LOS, which then opens up the run game, including outside the tackles.

But really, having every play start out as a possible run without strong tendencies based on down is a big part of why the Niners, Rams and many pro offenses are so effective. Keep the defense guessing.

The big issue I have with RPO offenses where the QB has to read the defense to decide what to do is that it allows a good defense to then fool the QB into doing what they want and know what the play will be. Good defenses can turn that into no gain runs and interceptions. I'd rather have the offense deceiving the defense, creating mismatches in numbers, speed, size, height that are in the offense's favor.

I think it's either Kellen Moore or the OC for the Chicago Bears Helfrich. Tui is a dark horse unfortunately, if Wilcox promised him something. They probably would of made that decision prior to the bowl if Tui was the choice.

I like Moore as OC. Dallas's offense is not the problem. He did not utilize Elliot as he should of. He will do great at the college level. Dak has great stats, and Cooper did well. They utilized the TE. He may prove to be a big time recruiter as well.

Helfrich is a good coach, not a good recruiter. No he did not get Mariota, Greatwood got Mariota. He is a bit boring, but is a good coach. I can see Wilcox going to with him due to familiarity with him. He had good offenses at Oregon and terrible defenses. Even Dykes beat them one year.

Gkhoury2325 said:

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I think it's either Kellen Moore or the OC for the Chicago Bears Helfrich. Tui is a dark horse unfortunately, if Wilcox promised him something. They probably would of made that decision prior to the bowl if Tui was the choice.

I like Moore as OC. Dallas's offense is not the problem. He did not utilize Elliot as he should of. He will do great at the college level. Dak has great stats, and Cooper did well. They utilized the TE. He may prove to be a big time recruiter as well.

Helfrich is a good coach, not a good recruiter. No he did not get Mariota, Greatwood got Mariota. He is a bit boring, but is a good coach. I can see Wilcox going to with him due to familiarity with him. He had good offenses at Oregon and terrible defenses. Even Dykes beat them one year.

---

Journalist: Coach Wilcox, promoting your TE coach to Offensive Coordinator seems to be bringing you some criticism among the Cal fan base, most notably on the renowned site Bear Insider. How would you respond to your critics there?

Wilcox: Well, I get that, I really do. I would tell them that, sure, maybe it looks flawed from a football standpoint, but there were greater considerations to which they were not privy, prior to my decision.

Journalist: Sounds like, now that you have made your decision, you can share those considerations with us?

Wilcox: Absolutely. You see, I had promised him something... and I am a man of my word. As part of the culture we are building in our program, we value honor above all else.

Journalist: Thank you, C... Whew! Is it getting hot in here, or is that my imag... What's that?!? Coach, we're going to have to cut this short right away: It appears as if the sudden heat from an apparent Bear Insider website meltdown is spreading throughout the area! Run for your lives everybody!

Wilcox: Too late! I'm ankle deep in lava! Lower body injury! Lower body injury!

My money's on Tui getting a promotion. It's the Cal way. Unless we've found a G5/FCS person, the other likely outcome I can picture. In either case, we should hope whoever we found can exceed expectations somehow.

Anyone dreaming of luring away an NFL OC to become our OC should review one of the many threads on this site in 2007, when the peanut gallery debated whether Cal fans should prefer a berth in the national title game vs a Rose Bowl.

510 Bear said:

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QMy money's on Tui getting a promotion. It's the Cal way. Unless we've found a G5/FCS person, the other likely outcome I can picture. In either case, we should hope whoever we found can exceed expectations somehow.

Anyone dreaming of luring away an NFL OC to become our OC should review one of the many threads on this site in 2007, when the peanut gallery debated whether Cal fans should prefer a berth in the national title game vs a Rose Bowl.

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Tui being promoted would be the single worst decision ever. Please not that.

heartofthebear said:

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On Eric Keisau's title in 2011:

I apologize if I continually provide faulty information.
I post a lot and I sometimes can't cross check facts.
I also think I am accurate a good deal of the time and often times provide accurate information when the board is entirely devoid of it.

When I cross checked Eric Keisau 2011 at Cal, I found I was mistaken. I thought he was co-oc with Michalczik. It seems he was just a WR coach officially and also a "passing game coordinator".

If my memory serves me correctly, I'm pretty sure that back then Joe Starkey mentioned that Keisau was helping with game planning and play calling, at least on passing plays. But I could be again be providing false information so it would help if someone else corroborated that.

Also, even without that tidbit, I find it exceedingly hard to fathom how a "passing game coordinator" works with just the WRs. Yes he was the WR coach, but as passing game coordinator, he must have worked with the rest of the offense and those coaches, including Arroyo and Michalczik to develop a solid passing game.

That does not mean that he developed Maynard or any other Cal QB in 2011. But it most certainly means, if true he was taking on duties similar to an offensive coordinator.

After Keisau left in 2011, Michalczik stayed on in 2012 as OC and the offense suffered comparatively. The talent level was similar to the 2011 squad but the performance and the play calling suffered, as I recall. Yes Maynard's passer rating was slightly higher in 2012, but only slightly and you'd expect a second year starter to make more progress. Points/game declined significantly--by more than 25%. The only offensive coach to leave between 2011 and 2012 was Keisau.

Because I think coaching matters, I have been monitoring the difference in performance when Cal coaches come and go. Keisau was one of those guys, along with Wilcox (LBs) and Cortez (OC) that made a difference at Cal. Keisau's units advanced and declined depending according to his presence on the staff.

It is true that the starkest difference was at WR, when Kevin Daft coached WRs both before and after Keisau.

Point is that Wilcox would know whether or not Keisau has a track record with play calling. And, I would hope that solid play calling would be a big consideration in hiring a new OC. The SF 49ers and the NO Saints would not be playoff bound right now without high level play calling. It makes a difference.

I do think that plays are limited without a solid OL, but we should have a pretty good one next year and I hope we get considerably less conservative at OC than we were under Baldwin. We have a competent QB and some WRs that can get downfield. We should have a good enough run game to open up play action, etc. Now is a good time to hire an OC known for imaginative play calling. It doesn't have to be Gus Malzan or even Keisau. I just want someone that is willing to pass on 1st down.

BTW, Wilcox has implied that passing on first down is not advisable, but that is only if it isn't successful. And Rex Ryan of the NFL network said that running on 1st down is the worst down to run on because defenses tend to load the box more on that down. It is better to run on 2nd and 3rd. Rex Ryan coached for 30 years. Under Baldwin/Wilcox, Cal usually ran on 1st down and threw on 2nd down. When they broke out of that later in the year, the offense became more productive.

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Again. Never said he couldn't be a good OC. Said there is nothing in his background showing he could develop quarterbacks. Period. He has been a great WR coach.

Regarding title, under Tedford Cal frequently upped the ante on titles. I wouldn't assume the WR coach with the title Passing game coordinator was necessarily more than wide receivers coach. I guarantee you the associate head coaches we have had were not in any way head coaches.

heartofthebear said:

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BTW, Wilcox has implied that passing on first down is not advisable, but that is only if it isn't successful.

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Cal threw plenty on first down, but they tended not to be high percentage plays. IMO, first down is when you're looking for something to gain 4-5 yards to make the next two downs more manageable. Cal often threw deep when they threw on first down and then struggled to get the first down on the remaining two downs.

tequila4kapp said:

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Tub being promoted would be the single worst decision ever. Please not that.

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Cal not only doesn't spend money on hiring coaches, it doesn't spend effort (see the Wyking Jones promotion and the quick/outsourced decision to snap up Mark Fox). And we have a coach who is not an expert on offense, and who has simply promoted/reassigned from within before. I'm thinking we need to prepare for Tui as OC.

510 Bear said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Tub being promoted would be the single worst decision ever. Please not that.

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Cal not only doesn't spend money on hiring coaches, it doesn't spend effort (see the Wyking Jones promotion and the quick/outsourced decision to snap up Mark Fox). And we have a coach who is not an expert on offense, and who has simply promoted/reassigned from within before. I'm thinking we need to prepare for Tui as OC.

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You can think that...if you like.

510 Bear said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Tub being promoted would be the single worst decision ever. Please not that.

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Cal not only doesn't spend money on hiring coaches, it doesn't spend effort (see the Wyking Jones promotion and the quick/outsourced decision to snap up Mark Fox). And we have a coach who is not an expert on offense, and who has simply promoted/reassigned from within before. I'm thinking we need to prepare for Tui as OC.

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If Wilcox was even thinking of making Tui the OC, he would have had Tui take on the role for the bowl game with Baldwin staying in SLO.

Joker said:

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heartofthebear said:

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BTW, Wilcox has implied that passing on first down is not advisable, but that is only if it isn't successful.

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Cal threw plenty on first down, but they tended not to be high percentage plays. IMO, first down is when you're looking for something to gain 4-5 yards to make the next two downs more manageable. Cal often threw deep when they threw on first down and then struggled to get the first down on the remaining two downs.

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I'm glad you brought this up because when i read about the "predictability" of the offense, in an earlier post, I recalled seeing stats that, in fact, Cal threw a lot on first down. But as you stated the play calling just wasn't all that great.

I think the best game BB ever prepped for and called was this year's Wazzu game. He actually fit his scheme and play calling to the personnel. The difference in the "look" of the offense was so stark everyone noticed it: QB under center, play action.....and on and on. That was a fun offense to watch.

Cuts both ways. There is nothing in EKs reported background that shows that he cannot develop QBs.

SoCalie said:

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Cuts both ways. There is nothing in EKs reported background that shows that he cannot develop QBs.

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Sigh. Smh.

OaktownBear said:

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SoCalie said:

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Cuts both ways. There is nothing in EKs reported background that shows that he cannot develop QBs.

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Sigh. Smh.

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I have a feeling that I'm gonna be bumping a lot of posts when the new OC finally gets named. I'm just praying that it's not a name where I immediately wonder why the guy got the job. Baldwin, on paper, made sense from a fan point of view. Just didn't work out. Maybe if I cared about Eastern Washington as much as I care about Cal, I might have seen it coming, but maybe not.

calumnus said:

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heartofthebear said:

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On Eric Keisau's title in 2011:

I apologize if I continually provide faulty information.
I post a lot and I sometimes can't cross check facts.
I also think I am accurate a good deal of the time and often times provide accurate information when the board is entirely devoid of it.

When I cross checked Eric Keisau 2011 at Cal, I found I was mistaken. I thought he was co-oc with Michalczik. It seems he was just a WR coach officially and also a "passing game coordinator".

If my memory serves me correctly, I'm pretty sure that back then Joe Starkey mentioned that Keisau was helping with game planning and play calling, at least on passing plays. But I could be again be providing false information so it would help if someone else corroborated that.

Also, even without that tidbit, I find it exceedingly hard to fathom how a "passing game coordinator" works with just the WRs. Yes he was the WR coach, but as passing game coordinator, he must have worked with the rest of the offense and those coaches, including Arroyo and Michalczik to develop a solid passing game.

That does not mean that he developed Maynard or any other Cal QB in 2011. But it most certainly means, if true he was taking on duties similar to an offensive coordinator.

After Keisau left in 2011, Michalczik stayed on in 2012 as OC and the offense suffered comparatively. The talent level was similar to the 2011 squad but the performance and the play calling suffered, as I recall. Yes Maynard's passer rating was slightly higher in 2012, but only slightly and you'd expect a second year starter to make more progress. Points/game declined significantly--by more than 25%. The only offensive coach to leave between 2011 and 2012 was Keisau.

Because I think coaching matters, I have been monitoring the difference in performance when Cal coaches come and go. Keisau was one of those guys, along with Wilcox (LBs) and Cortez (OC) that made a difference at Cal. Keisau's units advanced and declined depending according to his presence on the staff.

It is true that the starkest difference was at WR, when Kevin Daft coached WRs both before and after Keisau.

Point is that Wilcox would know whether or not Keisau has a track record with play calling. And, I would hope that solid play calling would be a big consideration in hiring a new OC. The SF 49ers and the NO Saints would not be playoff bound right now without high level play calling. It makes a difference.

I do think that plays are limited without a solid OL, but we should have a pretty good one next year and I hope we get considerably less conservative at OC than we were under Baldwin. We have a competent QB and some WRs that can get downfield. We should have a good enough run game to open up play action, etc. Now is a good time to hire an OC known for imaginative play calling. It doesn't have to be Gus Malzan or even Keisau. I just want someone that is willing to pass on 1st down.

BTW, Wilcox has implied that passing on first down is not advisable, but that is only if it isn't successful. And Rex Ryan of the NFL network said that running on 1st down is the worst down to run on because defenses tend to load the box more on that down. It is better to run on 2nd and 3rd. Rex Ryan coached for 30 years. Under Baldwin/Wilcox, Cal usually ran on 1st down and threw on 2nd down. When they broke out of that later in the year, the offense became more productive.

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Agreed. For much of the last three years our play calling was very predictable. If we didn't run on first down we often went empty backfield which just signals to the defense what you are doing (either a pass or a QB draw).

Because everyone expects you to run on first down I am a big proponent of lining up in a power formation and a healthy dose of play action passing on first down, especially to the TEs who can initially fake a run block. Roughly a 50-50 mix, just to keep the defense from crashing the LOS, which then opens up the run game, including outside the tackles.

But really, having every play start out as a possible run without strong tendencies based on down is a big part of why the Niners, Rams and many pro offenses are so effective. Keep the defense guessing.

The big issue I have with RPO offenses where the QB has to read the defense to decide what to do is that it allows a good defense to then fool the QB into doing what they want and know what the play will be. Good defenses can turn that into no gain runs and interceptions. I'd rather have the offense deceiving the defense, creating mismatches in numbers, speed, size, height that are in the offense's favor.

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A high percentage pass like a quick slant to a TE may be a more reliable way to accomplish the desired 5 yards on first down than a run. And I agree that you always want the offensive formation to look like a run when passing, or vice versa. The best offenses are capable of running pass and run plays out of the same formations and they keep the defenses guessing by using motion, misdirection and play action. Our better performing HCs, JT, Snyder and Mike White all ran plays like that. I think a good offensive coordinator would do a better job of determining whether to run or pass than the starting QB. But I do think Garbers does a decent job there, especially when he has the confidence to keep it and throw downfield, something that has not always been the case.

In any case, I really hope that Wilcox has the confidence to hire an OC that is willing to run a less conservative offense. It is fine with me to run the ball, but it should not be at the cost of creativity.

heartofthebear said:

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I apologize if I continually provide faulty information.
I post a lot and I sometimes can't cross check facts.
I also think I am accurate a good deal of the time and often times provide accurate information when the board is entirely devoid of it.

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There will never be a better post on Growls than this part of the post.

Not picking on the poster, but this is perfect. Is there a growls hall of fame?

Rushinbear said:

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Cave Bear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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CaliforniaEternal said:

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Ron Rivera. He must have learned something about offense while coaching in the NFL all those years, right?

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He got fired because he lost three games where he couldn't get his team to score a go ahead TD from 10 yards or closer with time running out.

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I'd still take him as OC without hesitation. I think at Ron's level of coaching the knowledge barrier between offense and defense get proportionately smaller. Ron has had a chance to learn from competent NFL OCs for 9 seasons. There is definitely a character to the Panthers offense that has survived through the OC regimes. Ron knows how to coach an offense, even if he's not as good at it as he is coaching defense. I have a high level of respect for the ability level of NFL head coaches. They survive far more at being good at coaching football than college coaches, who succeed far more with being likable than NFL coaches can.

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I can't shake the idea that an OC ought to come in with an offensive system - plays, blocking schemes, pass routes, timing, adjustments to defenses, etc. Ought to be experienced in designing offensive game plans from that system. Ought to be experienced in play calling from that system and making adjustments - half time and on the fly.

I don't see how someone who hasn't done this as a career (even a recent one) can put this all together in a matter of weeks before spring. A great coach may be able to lead, to motivate players and assistants, manage their side of the team, recruit, but have no foundation to work from.

We need an OC who has an O and can coach it and relate it to the hc, assistants and players and recruits.

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The offensive system is usually made through collaboration, and the extent of collaboration is usually related to the gap in knowledge of offensive concepts between the OC and the HC. Baldwin had all of the weight of offensive knowledge in that relationship. At least initially, Wilcox was justified in letting Baldwin install at his own discretion, with at most only very general requirements like "be physical" or "control the ball" since Wilcox was a rookie HC that was previous a defensive specialist. Now with a lot more experience of how an offense is run and what kind of system serves his vision, Wilcox has to be more involved in the installation of the system -- provided we're going to actually change the system. If we do something like promote from within or hire a coach that runs a similar system, the installation is going to be more like merely an update.

My view of football expertise has the coach benefiting from their quality of competition. I would be perfectly comfortable with appointing Wilcox as offensive coordinator of a HS team where I was HC. Just from his experience in coaching counter to offensive coordinators, he will know more about offense than virtually any other HS coach, HC or OC. The process of putting together units and getting organizational items taken care of is translatable between offense and defense, and knowledge of both sides of the ball accrues for HCs supervising their coordinators (even those coordinators given broad discretion). If Kyle Shanahan wanted to be DC for my college team, I'd be all for that too even though he was never a defensive player or coach prior to being HC.

tequila4kapp said:

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My guess of the today is Kellen Moore. There's the Boise State connection to JW. Moore has an odd resume that seems to make him a reasonable candidate....he has OC experience (checks the box) but only 1 year, in the pros and under the HC who really runs the O (so going to college where he can actually be in charge could make some sense). Plus it seems pretty likely the Cowboys are going to have changes in the coaching staff so Moore will likely be available.

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Definitely think this is possible and I would be very pleased. Getting Moore would be a big coup for Wilcox and our program.

71Bear said:

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OaktownBear said:

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Rushinbear said:

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Cave Bear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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CaliforniaEternal said:

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Ron Rivera. He must have learned something about offense while coaching in the NFL all those years, right?

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He got fired because he lost three games where he couldn't get his team to score a go ahead TD from 10 yards or closer with time running out.

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I'd still take him as OC without hesitation. I think at Ron's level of coaching the knowledge barrier between offense and defense get proportionately smaller. Ron has had a chance to learn from competent NFL OCs for 9 seasons. There is definitely a character to the Panthers offense that has survived through the OC regimes. Ron knows how to coach an offense, even if he's not as good at it as he is coaching defense. I have a high level of respect for the ability level of NFL head coaches. They survive far more at being good at coaching football than college coaches, who succeed far more with being likable than NFL coaches can.

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I can't shake the idea that an OC ought to come in with an offensive system - plays, blocking schemes, pass routes, timing, adjustments to defenses, etc. Ought to be experienced in designing offensive game plans from that system. Ought to be experienced in play calling from that system and making adjustments - half time and on the fly.

I don't see how someone who hasn't done this as a career (even a recent one) can put this all together in a matter of weeks before spring. A great coach may be able to lead, to motivate players and assistants, manage their side of the team, recruit, but have no foundation to work from.

We need an OC who has an O and can coach it and relate it to the hc, assistants and players and recruits.

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Do we really need to debate whether Ron Rivera should be our next OC?

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Nope.

Of course, this discussion reminds me of the fabled Denny Schuler. He was the DC at Oregon in 1992. In '93, Cal hired him as an OC. Following a particularly miserable offensive performance v. ASU in his first season, the word was "As an OC, Schuler coaches like a great DC".

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Denny Schuler was a rising star, highly respected coordinator who seemed to be on the fast track to an HC position . . . until he came to Cal.