What aboutBig C said:
Wait, so Cal just played a basketball game at 11 AM on a weekday?!? Missed another one! Who would even think to look for that? The tip-off time is listed as "TBA" on the BI schedule. The world is topsy-turvy. Is there any wonder there is so little interest?
It must have been the altitude. Did the Bears have any time to acclimate before the game?NathanAllen said:I envy your optimism of watching that game and thinking Cal "will be a decent team before the end of the year."tthompson993 said:
I agree Sluggp but I think Colorado has better defenders than Cal has offensive players. They are trying to get the ball inside but Colorado's defense is doing a good job of preventing that and If it's Lars he is going to fumble it away most times anyway. I really like Celestine but he needs work on defense. He was late on his defensive rotations 3 different times that resulted in 3 made 3's by Colorado. Good to see Fox fired up on the sidelines as it appeared that Joel Brown was not running the offense or what passes as Fox's offense. I think that we will be a decent team before the end of the year. Go Bears.
Are you referring to the game or to the "decent team by the end of the year" post?SFCityBear said:It must have been the altitude. Did the Bears have any time to acclimate before the game?NathanAllen said:I envy your optimism of watching that game and thinking Cal "will be a decent team before the end of the year."tthompson993 said:
I agree Sluggp but I think Colorado has better defenders than Cal has offensive players. They are trying to get the ball inside but Colorado's defense is doing a good job of preventing that and If it's Lars he is going to fumble it away most times anyway. I really like Celestine but he needs work on defense. He was late on his defensive rotations 3 different times that resulted in 3 made 3's by Colorado. Good to see Fox fired up on the sidelines as it appeared that Joel Brown was not running the offense or what passes as Fox's offense. I think that we will be a decent team before the end of the year. Go Bears.
100% agree!! That style of coaching has been dead for years. And he looks like an incompetent cry baby while he's doing it.sluggo said:Colorado has better players, but that has nothing to do with playing properly. Cal needs to have superior players, not just even players, to make up for poor offensive coaching.tthompson993 said:
I agree Sluggp but I think Colorado has better defenders than Cal has offensive players. They are trying to get the ball inside but Colorado's defense is doing a good job of preventing that and If it's Lars he is going to fumble it away most times anyway. I really like Celestine but he needs work on defense. He was late on his defensive rotations 3 different times that resulted in 3 made 3's by Colorado. Good to see Fox fired up on the sidelines as it appeared that Joel Brown was not running the offense or what passes as Fox's offense. I think that we will be a decent team before the end of the year. Go Bears.
I hate to see the style in which Fox yells at his players. Not because they can't take it, but more that he comes off as unlikeable. I don't think that is good for recruiting, either for getting new players or for keeping the players he has.
UrsineMaximus said:100% agree!! That style of coaching has been dead for years. And he looks like an incompetent cry baby while he's doing it.sluggo said:Colorado has better players, but that has nothing to do with playing properly. Cal needs to have superior players, not just even players, to make up for poor offensive coaching.tthompson993 said:
I agree Sluggp but I think Colorado has better defenders than Cal has offensive players. They are trying to get the ball inside but Colorado's defense is doing a good job of preventing that and If it's Lars he is going to fumble it away most times anyway. I really like Celestine but he needs work on defense. He was late on his defensive rotations 3 different times that resulted in 3 made 3's by Colorado. Good to see Fox fired up on the sidelines as it appeared that Joel Brown was not running the offense or what passes as Fox's offense. I think that we will be a decent team before the end of the year. Go Bears.
I hate to see the style in which Fox yells at his players. Not because they can't take it, but more that he comes off as unlikeable. I don't think that is good for recruiting, either for getting new players or for keeping the players he has.
The game, of course. We havwe one more game in altitude to see if we can play a little better in it. I think it is a little less altitude. According to Don MacLean, Colorado and Utan are the only PAC12 teams who have a home court advantage this season, and it is because of the altitude.stu said:Are you referring to the game or to the "decent team by the end of the year" post?SFCityBear said:It must have been the altitude. Did the Bears have any time to acclimate before the game?NathanAllen said:I envy your optimism of watching that game and thinking Cal "will be a decent team before the end of the year."tthompson993 said:
I agree Sluggp but I think Colorado has better defenders than Cal has offensive players. They are trying to get the ball inside but Colorado's defense is doing a good job of preventing that and If it's Lars he is going to fumble it away most times anyway. I really like Celestine but he needs work on defense. He was late on his defensive rotations 3 different times that resulted in 3 made 3's by Colorado. Good to see Fox fired up on the sidelines as it appeared that Joel Brown was not running the offense or what passes as Fox's offense. I think that we will be a decent team before the end of the year. Go Bears.
Big C said:
Wait, so Cal just played a basketball game at 11 AM on a weekday?!? Missed another one! Who would even think to look for that? The tip-off time is listed as "TBA" on the BI schedule. The world is topsy-turvy. Is there any wonder there is so little interest?
ColoradoBear said:Big C said:
Wait, so Cal just played a basketball game at 11 AM on a weekday?!? Missed another one! Who would even think to look for that? The tip-off time is listed as "TBA" on the BI schedule. The world is topsy-turvy. Is there any wonder there is so little interest?
Yeah, I was about to look for where to watch the game this eve, and was surprised it over and done with. Probably for the best I missed it.
Seems like the p12 is doing a lot more weekday day games this year. Anyone know why? Are they flying teams in and out the day of to avoid hotels for games not picked up by espn/fox?
oskidunker said:
No fans in attendance. No revenue. Tv pays no matter how many watch. make it convenient for the teams.When did they ever consider fans anyway? You are better off if you did not see it.
sluggo said:Colorado has better players, but that has nothing to do with playing properly. Cal needs to have superior players, not just even players, to make up for poor offensive coaching.tthompson993 said:
I agree Sluggp but I think Colorado has better defenders than Cal has offensive players. They are trying to get the ball inside but Colorado's defense is doing a good job of preventing that and If it's Lars he is going to fumble it away most times anyway. I really like Celestine but he needs work on defense. He was late on his defensive rotations 3 different times that resulted in 3 made 3's by Colorado. Good to see Fox fired up on the sidelines as it appeared that Joel Brown was not running the offense or what passes as Fox's offense. I think that we will be a decent team before the end of the year. Go Bears.
I hate to see the style in which Fox yells at his players. Not because they can't take it, but more that he comes off as unlikeable. I don't think that is good for recruiting, either for getting new players or for keeping the players he has.
No ability to record the pac 12 network through the apple tv app. Ridiculous they are not archived.UrsineMaximus said:
Does anyone watch sport events live on TV anymore?? I DVR everything and averaged watching a college football game, this past season, in 1 hour and 10 minutes.
Wish they had this feature when I was married w/ children, we may not have gotten divorced (OK we would have).
I can watch Cal men and women hoop game in 43 minutes!!
So, just set your DVR to seasonal recording of your fav teams and you will never miss one nor waste hours watching a game.
tthompson993 said:
I get that you don't respect Fox's coaching ability and I agree that he is not a good offensive coach. However, as I said in an earlier post, I have two friends who were at Georgia when Fox was there and they don't share your feelings. They felt Fox was a good coach who lacked somewhat as a recruiter. I think that this team is limited in athletic ability and they don't get how to set screens which you attribute solely to Fox's coaching and I feel falls just as much on the players lack of quickness and awareness. They should have learned how to set screens for shooters in high school. I know that I did..
I think this is a good point. And I'm also not commenting on Fox (or defending screaming at players), but also on this topic more generally. I don't think it's good optics to see a coach screaming in a players face on TV but in-game coaching and interactions are just a fraction of the overall coach/player relationship experience. We don't see how coaches interact in practice, at team meetings, traveling, or virtually any other time spent with players. But players and recruits see all or most of that.OaktownBear said:sluggo said:Colorado has better players, but that has nothing to do with playing properly. Cal needs to have superior players, not just even players, to make up for poor offensive coaching.tthompson993 said:
I agree Sluggp but I think Colorado has better defenders than Cal has offensive players. They are trying to get the ball inside but Colorado's defense is doing a good job of preventing that and If it's Lars he is going to fumble it away most times anyway. I really like Celestine but he needs work on defense. He was late on his defensive rotations 3 different times that resulted in 3 made 3's by Colorado. Good to see Fox fired up on the sidelines as it appeared that Joel Brown was not running the offense or what passes as Fox's offense. I think that we will be a decent team before the end of the year. Go Bears.
I hate to see the style in which Fox yells at his players. Not because they can't take it, but more that he comes off as unlikeable. I don't think that is good for recruiting, either for getting new players or for keeping the players he has.
I'm not commenting on Fox here, but your last point is right on generally. Often when someone makes this point you get a whole lot of "these are men and if they can't take it they shouldn't be there." responses. That isn't the point. They can take it. The point is how do you motivate. There is scads of research that everyone from 5 year old to big, manly tough guys respond better to positive reinforcement. Which doesn't mean you never yell, but it does mean that it should not be the primary arrow in your pack
1. And even Bob Knight lost his job.Big C said:
Two types of coaches can get away with being "yellers":
1. The Bob Knights who are SO established that there job is secure and they are mostly signing players that know what they're getting into.
2. The coaches who "wear their hearts on their sleeves" and, though they may yell a lot, they also praise and love a lot. Maybe Sean Miller and Tom Izzo are examples of these types?
The question to me is, to what extent is Fox a "Type 2"? Okay, maybe he's not showering the players with hugs after the game, but is he also communicating positively to them, to where they're able to accept some yelling? Is he mitigating a lot of the negative with enough positive? From everything I've heard, the definitive answer is "maybe, somewhat".
Big C said:
Two types of coaches can get away with being "yellers":
1. The Bob Knights who are SO established that there job is secure and they are mostly signing players that know what they're getting into.
2. The coaches who "wear their hearts on their sleeves" and, though they may yell a lot, they also praise and love a lot. Maybe Sean Miller and Tom Izzo are examples of these types?
The question to me is, to what extent is Fox a "Type 2"? Okay, maybe he's not showering the players with hugs after the game, but is he also communicating positively to them, to where they're able to accept some yelling? Is he mitigating a lot of the negative with enough positive? From everything I've heard, the definitive answer is "maybe, somewhat".
The same is true of animal training. Positive reinforcement works way better than punishment.OaktownBear said:sluggo said:Colorado has better players, but that has nothing to do with playing properly. Cal needs to have superior players, not just even players, to make up for poor offensive coaching.tthompson993 said:
I agree Sluggp but I think Colorado has better defenders than Cal has offensive players. They are trying to get the ball inside but Colorado's defense is doing a good job of preventing that and If it's Lars he is going to fumble it away most times anyway. I really like Celestine but he needs work on defense. He was late on his defensive rotations 3 different times that resulted in 3 made 3's by Colorado. Good to see Fox fired up on the sidelines as it appeared that Joel Brown was not running the offense or what passes as Fox's offense. I think that we will be a decent team before the end of the year. Go Bears.
I hate to see the style in which Fox yells at his players. Not because they can't take it, but more that he comes off as unlikeable. I don't think that is good for recruiting, either for getting new players or for keeping the players he has.
I'm not commenting on Fox here, but your last point is right on generally. Often when someone makes this point you get a whole lot of "these are men and if they can't take it they shouldn't be there." responses. That isn't the point. They can take it. The point is how do you motivate. There is scads of research that everyone from 5 year old to big, manly tough guys respond better to positive reinforcement. Which doesn't mean you never yell, but it does mean that it should not be the primary arrow in your pack
Knight also lost Larry Bird, didn't he? I think he transferred to Indiana State, but not sure of the reason.BeachedBear said:1. And even Bob Knight lost his job.Big C said:
Two types of coaches can get away with being "yellers":
1. The Bob Knights who are SO established that there job is secure and they are mostly signing players that know what they're getting into.
2. The coaches who "wear their hearts on their sleeves" and, though they may yell a lot, they also praise and love a lot. Maybe Sean Miller and Tom Izzo are examples of these types?
The question to me is, to what extent is Fox a "Type 2"? Okay, maybe he's not showering the players with hugs after the game, but is he also communicating positively to them, to where they're able to accept some yelling? Is he mitigating a lot of the negative with enough positive? From everything I've heard, the definitive answer is "maybe, somewhat".
2. Yeah - maybe, somewhat, Definitely. Love it!
Not every animal is the same. Lenny Bruce once said that "No matter how many times you kick a dog, it will come back. Kick a cat once, and it may come back. Kick a cat twice and the cat will be gone."MSaviolives said:The same is true of animal training. Positive reinforcement works way better than punishment.OaktownBear said:sluggo said:Colorado has better players, but that has nothing to do with playing properly. Cal needs to have superior players, not just even players, to make up for poor offensive coaching.tthompson993 said:
I agree Sluggp but I think Colorado has better defenders than Cal has offensive players. They are trying to get the ball inside but Colorado's defense is doing a good job of preventing that and If it's Lars he is going to fumble it away most times anyway. I really like Celestine but he needs work on defense. He was late on his defensive rotations 3 different times that resulted in 3 made 3's by Colorado. Good to see Fox fired up on the sidelines as it appeared that Joel Brown was not running the offense or what passes as Fox's offense. I think that we will be a decent team before the end of the year. Go Bears.
I hate to see the style in which Fox yells at his players. Not because they can't take it, but more that he comes off as unlikeable. I don't think that is good for recruiting, either for getting new players or for keeping the players he has.
I'm not commenting on Fox here, but your last point is right on generally. Often when someone makes this point you get a whole lot of "these are men and if they can't take it they shouldn't be there." responses. That isn't the point. They can take it. The point is how do you motivate. There is scads of research that everyone from 5 year old to big, manly tough guys respond better to positive reinforcement. Which doesn't mean you never yell, but it does mean that it should not be the primary arrow in your pack
Maybe Fox should chew on a towel? Tark did it if I recall correctly. UC Davis' coach--Bob Hamilton--in the 70s and 80s was also a towel chewer. Great guy by the way.SFCityBear said:Not every animal is the same. Lenny Bruce once said that "No matter how many times you kick a dog, it will come back. Kick a cat once, and it may come back. Kick a cat twice and the cat will be gone."MSaviolives said:The same is true of animal training. Positive reinforcement works way better than punishment.OaktownBear said:sluggo said:Colorado has better players, but that has nothing to do with playing properly. Cal needs to have superior players, not just even players, to make up for poor offensive coaching.tthompson993 said:
I agree Sluggp but I think Colorado has better defenders than Cal has offensive players. They are trying to get the ball inside but Colorado's defense is doing a good job of preventing that and If it's Lars he is going to fumble it away most times anyway. I really like Celestine but he needs work on defense. He was late on his defensive rotations 3 different times that resulted in 3 made 3's by Colorado. Good to see Fox fired up on the sidelines as it appeared that Joel Brown was not running the offense or what passes as Fox's offense. I think that we will be a decent team before the end of the year. Go Bears.
I hate to see the style in which Fox yells at his players. Not because they can't take it, but more that he comes off as unlikeable. I don't think that is good for recruiting, either for getting new players or for keeping the players he has.
I'm not commenting on Fox here, but your last point is right on generally. Often when someone makes this point you get a whole lot of "these are men and if they can't take it they shouldn't be there." responses. That isn't the point. They can take it. The point is how do you motivate. There is scads of research that everyone from 5 year old to big, manly tough guys respond better to positive reinforcement. Which doesn't mean you never yell, but it does mean that it should not be the primary arrow in your pack
And no player is the same. Some respond to "positive reinforcement", some need coddling, and some need a wake up call. A kick in the butt. Like the proverbial mule who you had to hit in the forehead with a 2x4 to get his attention. Of the latter, I feel ALL tactics like getting in the face of the player, intimidating him, challenging him verbally and more, should only be done in privacy, and never to embarrass the player (or the coach) in front of fans, friends or family. Bob Knight, Lou Campanelli, and Brad Duggan could have used more restraint. Dick Kuchen and Ben Braun might have been a little more aggressive. I don't know about Campanelli, but Knight and Duggan loved their players, were like fathers to many, and followed and were there to listen or give advice or help to their players long after the player graduated. Pete Newell was never intimidating in games or in practice, but players told me they feared him, feared what he might do to them. Except he never did it. He kept it all inside, never called timeouts and chewed on a towel all game long. The stress got to him, ulcers I think, and he was forced to retire from coaching teams. I think coaches have to get and keep the respect of their players. When the players disrespect you, or start to disobey you or laugh at you, you are done as a coach, for that team anyway.
We did see "the speech" at the early team meeting.NathanAlle said:
I think this is a good point. And I'm also not commenting on Fox (or defending screaming at players), but also on this topic more generally. I don't think it's good optics to see a coach screaming in a players face on TV but in-game coaching and interactions are just a fraction of the overall coach/player relationship experience. We don't see how coaches interact in practice, at team meetings, traveling, or virtually any other time spent with players. But players and recruits see all or most of that.
Big C said:
Two types of coaches can get away with being "yellers":
1. The Bob Knights who are SO established that there job is secure and they are mostly signing players that know what they're getting into.
2. The coaches who "wear their hearts on their sleeves" and, though they may yell a lot, they also praise and love a lot. Maybe Sean Miller and Tom Izzo are examples of these types?
The question to me is, to what extent is Fox a "Type 2"? Okay, maybe he's not showering the players with hugs after the game, but is he also communicating positively to them, to where they're able to accept some yelling? Is he mitigating a lot of the negative with enough positive? From everything I've heard, the definitive answer is "maybe, somewhat".
