I agree with this. I also think if you take a flier, you need to be more willing to let the coach grow into the job, if they show any signs of being successful (i.e. more than what W. Jones did). Otherwise, you end up with no one wanting to take your job. I would give either Gates or Decuire more rope than I would give Fox, in hopes he has the energy in recruiting to building a program, finding talent and building his system around what he finds.SFCityBear said:
Dennis Gates is basically an assistant coach with just 2 years as a head coach in a conference at least a couple of cuts below the PAC12. He may have overachieved in his first year, even with a losing record. He had a very good 2nd season, and overall has a .500 record.
As an assistant coach, Wyking Jones had more to recommend him for the Cal head coach job than does Gates, on paper, that is. Gates has been an assistant coach for 17 years, and Jones was an assistant for 13 years, but Jones coached at higher level conferences, and more tournament teams and for better head coaches than did Gates.
I am very skeptical of hiring anyone to be Cal's coach, if they don't have at least 5-10 years as a head coach in a decent conference. I don't think we should have such a low opinion of Cal that we have to settle for anything less, and I really don't like the idea of hiring an assistant coach to his first head coaching job. Wyking Jones should have taught us a lesson of going down that road. Besides Cal has had no success hiring assistant coaches to the Cal head coaching job. Rene Herrerias, Jim Padgett, and Dick Kuchen were all hired with never being a head coach at the college level, and they all fared poorly at Cal. Todd Bozeman had been an assistant at Cal, and gave us some thrills before he ran the program into the toilet as our head coach. Our only successful head coaches were head coaches in their previous jobs: Newell, Campanelli, Braun, Montgomery, and Martin had all been head coaches at other schools before they were offered the Cal head coach job. Even Nibs Price had been the head football coach at Cal before he became the head basketball coach, I believe.
Gates has very little experience as a head coach, compared to any of the men I mentioned above. It is so different running a ship than just working with players to improve their individual skills, or running drills or scrimmages, or scouting or breaking down tape, etc.
The reason I was not in the Travis DeCuire camp was that he had never been a head coach at the D1 level, only an assistant. He had a few years under Monty as associate head coach, whatever that means. Travis now has had that experience as head coach at Montana, and he has a record of 8 seasons there as good or better than a lot of big name D1 coaches who had coached Montana: Mike Montgomery, Larry Kristowiak, Wayne Tinkle, Jud Heathcote, and Blaine Taylor. I'd be much more likely now to support DeCuire than Dennis Gates, as much as I liked Gates when he played at Cal.
Gates needs more head coaching experience to be qualified for the Cal job. I am curious how so many of you are so ready to throw Mark Fox under the bus ASAP, after only 2 years on the job, and at the same time, you are so willing hire Dennis Gates to be the Cal head coach, with so little information to go on. He has had only 2 years in a head coaching job, in a conference not close to the level of the one Fox is now coaching in.
If you want to change coaches, fine, but please get one with 5-10 years experience as a head coach, and let's not be looking at assistant coaches. I don't think the "window" on Gates will close any time soon, but I do think the window on DeCuire might be closing.
Dennis Gates
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Last: 1 yr ago by calumnus
Talk to braun privately and see if he thinks Gates is power conference HC material. Have no idea what he might say..
Dennis Gates was mentioned in this writeup on potential coaching moves, today in The Athletic:
Quote:
Dennis Gates, head coach, Cleveland State. Next to Loyola Chicago's Porter Moser, Gates is the hottest mid-major coach in the country. He grew up in Chicago and became a two-time All-Academic Pac-10 selection at Cal, where he graduated in three years and played his senior season as a master's degree candidate. Gates later spent eight years as an assistant to Leonard Hamilton at Florida State, and after being hired at Cleveland State in 2019 he was named Horizon League Coach of the Year in his first season. Gates led the Vikings to a share of the league title this season. He is deep in the mix at Penn State, whose athletic director, Sandy Barbour, worked previously at Cal. Gates could become a leading candidate at DePaul.
Yet another sign that if we don't make a move on Gates now, he is likely unavailable to us (and he may already be in line for bigger gigs than Cal).BearSD said:
Dennis Gates was mentioned in this writeup on potential coaching moves, today in The Athletic:Quote:
Dennis Gates, head coach, Cleveland State. Next to Loyola Chicago's Porter Moser, Gates is the hottest mid-major coach in the country. He grew up in Chicago and became a two-time All-Academic Pac-10 selection at Cal, where he graduated in three years and played his senior season as a master's degree candidate. Gates later spent eight years as an assistant to Leonard Hamilton at Florida State, and after being hired at Cleveland State in 2019 he was named Horizon League Coach of the Year in his first season. Gates led the Vikings to a share of the league title this season. He is deep in the mix at Penn State, whose athletic director, Sandy Barbour, worked previously at Cal. Gates could become a leading candidate at DePaul.
CalLifer said:Yet another sign that if we don't make a move on Gates now, he is likely unavailable to us (and he may already be in line for bigger gigs than Cal).BearSD said:
Dennis Gates was mentioned in this writeup on potential coaching moves, today in The Athletic:Quote:
Dennis Gates, head coach, Cleveland State. Next to Loyola Chicago's Porter Moser, Gates is the hottest mid-major coach in the country. He grew up in Chicago and became a two-time All-Academic Pac-10 selection at Cal, where he graduated in three years and played his senior season as a master's degree candidate. Gates later spent eight years as an assistant to Leonard Hamilton at Florida State, and after being hired at Cleveland State in 2019 he was named Horizon League Coach of the Year in his first season. Gates led the Vikings to a share of the league title this season. He is deep in the mix at Penn State, whose athletic director, Sandy Barbour, worked previously at Cal. Gates could become a leading candidate at DePaul.
Unless a major donor sees the opportunity and wants to make it happen...
4thGenCal has already implied that the money isn't there for basketball. Certainly, the next generation's version of the Haas Family could magically appear, but it's probably as realistic as OaktownBear buying that property in Tahoe.calumnus said:CalLifer said:Yet another sign that if we don't make a move on Gates now, he is likely unavailable to us (and he may already be in line for bigger gigs than Cal).BearSD said:
Dennis Gates was mentioned in this writeup on potential coaching moves, today in The Athletic:Quote:
Dennis Gates, head coach, Cleveland State. Next to Loyola Chicago's Porter Moser, Gates is the hottest mid-major coach in the country. He grew up in Chicago and became a two-time All-Academic Pac-10 selection at Cal, where he graduated in three years and played his senior season as a master's degree candidate. Gates later spent eight years as an assistant to Leonard Hamilton at Florida State, and after being hired at Cleveland State in 2019 he was named Horizon League Coach of the Year in his first season. Gates led the Vikings to a share of the league title this season. He is deep in the mix at Penn State, whose athletic director, Sandy Barbour, worked previously at Cal. Gates could become a leading candidate at DePaul.
Unless a major donor sees the opportunity and wants to make it happen...
calumnus said:CalLifer said:Yet another sign that if we don't make a move on Gates now, he is likely unavailable to us (and he may already be in line for bigger gigs than Cal).BearSD said:
Dennis Gates was mentioned in this writeup on potential coaching moves, today in The Athletic:Quote:
Dennis Gates, head coach, Cleveland State. Next to Loyola Chicago's Porter Moser, Gates is the hottest mid-major coach in the country. He grew up in Chicago and became a two-time All-Academic Pac-10 selection at Cal, where he graduated in three years and played his senior season as a master's degree candidate. Gates later spent eight years as an assistant to Leonard Hamilton at Florida State, and after being hired at Cleveland State in 2019 he was named Horizon League Coach of the Year in his first season. Gates led the Vikings to a share of the league title this season. He is deep in the mix at Penn State, whose athletic director, Sandy Barbour, worked previously at Cal. Gates could become a leading candidate at DePaul.
Unless a major donor sees the opportunity and wants to make it happen...
Were said donor to exist, it would be interesting to hear the initial conversation between donor and Knowlton (who probably believes he has hiring/firing authority).
Oh, to be a fly on the wall at just the right moments in history...
Erik is Black, Any questions?
yes....who is Erik??
My apologies, I don't follow? I was only connecting 4thGenCal's point from earlier in the thread that the big donor(s) to make such a move doesn't seem to be there on the basketball side like there is/are on the football side. I'm not sure if I misspoke or if I implied something I didn't intend to. I didn't mean anything more than to reference his comment in response to the thought/hope that a big donor would appear.puget sound cal fan said:
Erik is Black, Any questions?
football coach...got it...
Mark Fox's salary is $1.5M-$1.8M at Cal. Penn State salary is $810K. DePaul salary is $1.37M.CalLifer said:Yet another sign that if we don't make a move on Gates now, he is likely unavailable to us (and he may already be in line for bigger gigs than Cal).BearSD said:
Dennis Gates was mentioned in this writeup on potential coaching moves, today in The Athletic:Quote:
Dennis Gates, head coach, Cleveland State. Next to Loyola Chicago's Porter Moser, Gates is the hottest mid-major coach in the country. He grew up in Chicago and became a two-time All-Academic Pac-10 selection at Cal, where he graduated in three years and played his senior season as a master's degree candidate. Gates later spent eight years as an assistant to Leonard Hamilton at Florida State, and after being hired at Cleveland State in 2019 he was named Horizon League Coach of the Year in his first season. Gates led the Vikings to a share of the league title this season. He is deep in the mix at Penn State, whose athletic director, Sandy Barbour, worked previously at Cal. Gates could become a leading candidate at DePaul.
No matter the hype, and no matter that we have a warm feeling for ex-Cal players, it is a considerable financial risk to hire a coach with a track record of one winning season out of only two as a head coach at a lower level program, if that is what you are basing your judgment on, IMHO.
SFCityBear
SFCityBear said:Mark Fox's salary is $1.5M-$1.8M at Cal. Penn State salary is $810K. DePaul salary is $1.37M.CalLifer said:Yet another sign that if we don't make a move on Gates now, he is likely unavailable to us (and he may already be in line for bigger gigs than Cal).BearSD said:
Dennis Gates was mentioned in this writeup on potential coaching moves, today in The Athletic:Quote:
Dennis Gates, head coach, Cleveland State. Next to Loyola Chicago's Porter Moser, Gates is the hottest mid-major coach in the country. He grew up in Chicago and became a two-time All-Academic Pac-10 selection at Cal, where he graduated in three years and played his senior season as a master's degree candidate. Gates later spent eight years as an assistant to Leonard Hamilton at Florida State, and after being hired at Cleveland State in 2019 he was named Horizon League Coach of the Year in his first season. Gates led the Vikings to a share of the league title this season. He is deep in the mix at Penn State, whose athletic director, Sandy Barbour, worked previously at Cal. Gates could become a leading candidate at DePaul.
No matter the hype, and no matter that we have a warm feeling for ex-Cal players, it is a considerable financial risk to hire a coach with a track record of one winning season out of only two as a head coach at a lower level program, if that is what you are basing your judgment on, IMHO.
SFCityBear, I get that you want a guy with 5-10 years of successful HC experience. HC experience at a college at what level? Because, at some point you're talking about some big bucks and you also have to ask yourself, why would this coach come to Cal, where we don't even have a dedicated practice facility?
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Gates and Cleveland State play for their spot in the NCAA Tournament at 4 p.m. (PST) today.
They avoided Wright State, which lost to Milwaukee in OT in the Horizon League quarterfinal game. Cleveland beat Milwaukee yesterday in a game it trailed the majority of and didn't lead in the second half until about a minute to play. I caught the last five minutes. Gates used an interesting trapping 1-2-2/2-3 zone thing to overcome a six-point or so deficit and then switched back to man in the last 60 seconds. Not to take anything away from Cleveland because I think they win anyways, but they had some key calls go their way during the rally.
On a slightly related note, Steph Curry was the first really famous player I noticed flopping on a three-point attempt at the slightest contact (or even phantom contact) and I'm bummed to see that has made it to the collegiate level. Probably a subjective view, but I feel like I've seen more college players flop (and be rewarded for it) this year than ever before.
They avoided Wright State, which lost to Milwaukee in OT in the Horizon League quarterfinal game. Cleveland beat Milwaukee yesterday in a game it trailed the majority of and didn't lead in the second half until about a minute to play. I caught the last five minutes. Gates used an interesting trapping 1-2-2/2-3 zone thing to overcome a six-point or so deficit and then switched back to man in the last 60 seconds. Not to take anything away from Cleveland because I think they win anyways, but they had some key calls go their way during the rally.
On a slightly related note, Steph Curry was the first really famous player I noticed flopping on a three-point attempt at the slightest contact (or even phantom contact) and I'm bummed to see that has made it to the collegiate level. Probably a subjective view, but I feel like I've seen more college players flop (and be rewarded for it) this year than ever before.
Ever watch Reggie Miller?
Jerome Randle? Was that a flop? I always thought it was a reaction to having to put every last ounce of strength into jumping and propelling the shot toward the basket. With Curry, he doesn't jump and then release at the top, but instead shoots the ball on the way up, so his must likely be a flop. Curry's stroke is catching on with high school kids. It is not far from being two-handed set shot. The game is going backwards in time in some ways.NathanAllen said:
Gates and Cleveland State play for their spot in the NCAA Tournament at 4 p.m. (PST) today.
They avoided Wright State, which lost to Milwaukee in OT in the Horizon League quarterfinal game. Cleveland beat Milwaukee yesterday in a game it trailed the majority of and didn't lead in the second half until about a minute to play. I caught the last five minutes. Gates used an interesting trapping 1-2-2/2-3 zone thing to overcome a six-point or so deficit and then switched back to man in the last 60 seconds. Not to take anything away from Cleveland because I think they win anyways, but they had some key calls go their way during the rally.
On a slightly related note, Steph Curry was the first really famous player I noticed flopping on a three-point attempt at the slightest contact (or even phantom contact) and I'm bummed to see that has made it to the collegiate level. Probably a subjective view, but I feel like I've seen more college players flop (and be rewarded for it) this year than ever before.
SFCityBear
NathanAllen said:
Gates and Cleveland State play for their spot in the NCAA Tournament at 4 p.m. (PST) today.
They avoided Wright State, which lost to Milwaukee in OT in the Horizon League quarterfinal game. Cleveland beat Milwaukee yesterday in a game it trailed the majority of and didn't lead in the second half until about a minute to play. I caught the last five minutes. Gates used an interesting trapping 1-2-2/2-3 zone thing to overcome a six-point or so deficit and then switched back to man in the last 60 seconds. Not to take anything away from Cleveland because I think they win anyways, but they had some key calls go their way during the rally.
On a slightly related note, Steph Curry was the first really famous player I noticed flopping on a three-point attempt at the slightest contact (or even phantom contact) and I'm bummed to see that has made it to the collegiate level. Probably a subjective view, but I feel like I've seen more college players flop (and be rewarded for it) this year than ever before.
Nice anecdote. Dennis Gates is clearly a smart man with a BA and MA from the University of California, Berkeley. I've always thought high intelligence is a desirable factor in coaching at Cal since attracting intelligent players (think Jayden Brown) is our comparative advantage.
Good point Jeff. I would like to see us interview Travis DeCuire, for one. He has more appropriate experience now, which he did not have when he was up for the job before. How much salary would he command? We did have a dedicated facility before. It was called the Hearst Gym for Women. With both men and women using Haas, Haas likely became crowded, and created more need for a practice facility. It is a tough sell, as land is at a premium on campus, and money is not readily available, I would guess. We probably should be in the Ivy League, as has been proposed many times, but that is a long plane trip away, and teams could not fly during Covid. Cal has dug quite a hole for itself trying to play in a top conference without the resources, and without a plan and a lot of interest.Big C said:SFCityBear said:Mark Fox's salary is $1.5M-$1.8M at Cal. Penn State salary is $810K. DePaul salary is $1.37M.CalLifer said:Yet another sign that if we don't make a move on Gates now, he is likely unavailable to us (and he may already be in line for bigger gigs than Cal).BearSD said:
Dennis Gates was mentioned in this writeup on potential coaching moves, today in The Athletic:Quote:
Dennis Gates, head coach, Cleveland State. Next to Loyola Chicago's Porter Moser, Gates is the hottest mid-major coach in the country. He grew up in Chicago and became a two-time All-Academic Pac-10 selection at Cal, where he graduated in three years and played his senior season as a master's degree candidate. Gates later spent eight years as an assistant to Leonard Hamilton at Florida State, and after being hired at Cleveland State in 2019 he was named Horizon League Coach of the Year in his first season. Gates led the Vikings to a share of the league title this season. He is deep in the mix at Penn State, whose athletic director, Sandy Barbour, worked previously at Cal. Gates could become a leading candidate at DePaul.
No matter the hype, and no matter that we have a warm feeling for ex-Cal players, it is a considerable financial risk to hire a coach with a track record of one winning season out of only two as a head coach at a lower level program, if that is what you are basing your judgment on, IMHO.
SFCityBear, I get that you want a guy with 5-10 years of successful HC experience. HC experience at a college at what level? Because, at some point you're talking about some big bucks and you also have to ask yourself, why would this coach come to Cal, where we don't even have a dedicated practice facility?
SFCityBear
I don't know about the money but regarding land I wonder how much use we get out of the Edwards Track Stadium.SFCityBear said:
... We did have a dedicated facility before. It was called the Hearst Gym for Women. With both men and women using Haas, Haas likely became crowded, and created more need for a practice facility. It is a tough sell, as land is at a premium on campus, and money is not readily available, I would guess ...
SFCityBear said:Mark Fox's salary is $1.5M-$1.8M at Cal. Penn State salary is $810K. DePaul salary is $1.37M.CalLifer said:Yet another sign that if we don't make a move on Gates now, he is likely unavailable to us (and he may already be in line for bigger gigs than Cal).BearSD said:
Dennis Gates was mentioned in this writeup on potential coaching moves, today in The Athletic:Quote:
Dennis Gates, head coach, Cleveland State. Next to Loyola Chicago's Porter Moser, Gates is the hottest mid-major coach in the country. He grew up in Chicago and became a two-time All-Academic Pac-10 selection at Cal, where he graduated in three years and played his senior season as a master's degree candidate. Gates later spent eight years as an assistant to Leonard Hamilton at Florida State, and after being hired at Cleveland State in 2019 he was named Horizon League Coach of the Year in his first season. Gates led the Vikings to a share of the league title this season. He is deep in the mix at Penn State, whose athletic director, Sandy Barbour, worked previously at Cal. Gates could become a leading candidate at DePaul.
No matter the hype, and no matter that we have a warm feeling for ex-Cal players, it is a considerable financial risk to hire a coach with a track record of one winning season out of only two as a head coach at a lower level program, if that is what you are basing your judgment on, IMHO.
Remind me why we paid Jones $1 million and are paying Fox $1.5 million?
Congrats to Dennis. Maybe we'll make a move to bring him home this off-season.
calumnus said:SFCityBear said:Mark Fox's salary is $1.5M-$1.8M at Cal. Penn State salary is $810K. DePaul salary is $1.37M.CalLifer said:Yet another sign that if we don't make a move on Gates now, he is likely unavailable to us (and he may already be in line for bigger gigs than Cal).BearSD said:
Dennis Gates was mentioned in this writeup on potential coaching moves, today in The Athletic:Quote:
Dennis Gates, head coach, Cleveland State. Next to Loyola Chicago's Porter Moser, Gates is the hottest mid-major coach in the country. He grew up in Chicago and became a two-time All-Academic Pac-10 selection at Cal, where he graduated in three years and played his senior season as a master's degree candidate. Gates later spent eight years as an assistant to Leonard Hamilton at Florida State, and after being hired at Cleveland State in 2019 he was named Horizon League Coach of the Year in his first season. Gates led the Vikings to a share of the league title this season. He is deep in the mix at Penn State, whose athletic director, Sandy Barbour, worked previously at Cal. Gates could become a leading candidate at DePaul.
No matter the hype, and no matter that we have a warm feeling for ex-Cal players, it is a considerable financial risk to hire a coach with a track record of one winning season out of only two as a head coach at a lower level program, if that is what you are basing your judgment on, IMHO.
Remind me why we paid Jones $1 million and are paying Fox $1.5 million?
We pay basically market value for what the Pac 12 conference pays its coaches, commensurate with the coaches' experience and success. So the low, low range is the Wyking Jones (no HC experience) salary. The high, high range would be if a school lured a successful, "big name" coach in his prime.
Which school in the conference is doing the hiring may alter the range a bit, but not all that much. I highly doubt this is written down anywhere. It is by custom. We could hire the janitor to coach men's basketball and it would be for a higher salary than the Santa Clara or San Jose St basketball coaches make.
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Because that is what Power Conference hoops coaches make. (I'm skeptical of that Penn State salary listed.) Regardless if you think Fox "deserves" the salary he's making, that's what coaches with his experience at power conferences make. Actually, it's on the low end compared to his peers.calumnus said:SFCityBear said:Mark Fox's salary is $1.5M-$1.8M at Cal. Penn State salary is $810K. DePaul salary is $1.37M.CalLifer said:Yet another sign that if we don't make a move on Gates now, he is likely unavailable to us (and he may already be in line for bigger gigs than Cal).BearSD said:
Dennis Gates was mentioned in this writeup on potential coaching moves, today in The Athletic:Quote:
Dennis Gates, head coach, Cleveland State. Next to Loyola Chicago's Porter Moser, Gates is the hottest mid-major coach in the country. He grew up in Chicago and became a two-time All-Academic Pac-10 selection at Cal, where he graduated in three years and played his senior season as a master's degree candidate. Gates later spent eight years as an assistant to Leonard Hamilton at Florida State, and after being hired at Cleveland State in 2019 he was named Horizon League Coach of the Year in his first season. Gates led the Vikings to a share of the league title this season. He is deep in the mix at Penn State, whose athletic director, Sandy Barbour, worked previously at Cal. Gates could become a leading candidate at DePaul.
No matter the hype, and no matter that we have a warm feeling for ex-Cal players, it is a considerable financial risk to hire a coach with a track record of one winning season out of only two as a head coach at a lower level program, if that is what you are basing your judgment on, IMHO.
Remind me why we paid Jones $1 million and are paying Fox $1.5 million?
And Travis turns his lonely eyes toward you with now a solid 7 years under belt in Montana and a fairly solid record from Monty's coaching tree (better than Coach K's, for example).
Dennis is the bright bauble that sports fans love.
Absent this year where they are 500 (and I have no idea how COVID did or didn't effect them in the big Sky - at least one of the issues is just how much of a ***** travel likely was)
Travis's record
12771 (.641)
Conference
8528 (.752)
A better man than I would go through and look at those 71 losses and figure out how many are revenue plays as they go into big boys houses and are the revenue sacrificial lamb.
Dennis is the bright bauble that sports fans love.
Absent this year where they are 500 (and I have no idea how COVID did or didn't effect them in the big Sky - at least one of the issues is just how much of a ***** travel likely was)
Travis's record
12771 (.641)
Conference
8528 (.752)
A better man than I would go through and look at those 71 losses and figure out how many are revenue plays as they go into big boys houses and are the revenue sacrificial lamb.
This thread has a lot of theories, contract theories, coaching evaluation theories.
But since its titled "Dennis Gates", let me throw out a casual, perhaps over simplified, basketball fan's opinion.
I've watched Cleveland State the last two nights. I know the level of competition may be shallow, but man, this looks like a VERY well coached team. Ball movement on offense is excellent, the players seem to have a great instinct of finding open areas and reading each other moves.
Same on the defensive end. Within the game I saw multiple looks, both zone and man to man, and the teams positioning for rebounds is excellent.
Bottom line: Dennis Gates appears to be an excellent coach. I would love to see Cal players have the same court sense that I have seen from Cleveland State.
But since its titled "Dennis Gates", let me throw out a casual, perhaps over simplified, basketball fan's opinion.
I've watched Cleveland State the last two nights. I know the level of competition may be shallow, but man, this looks like a VERY well coached team. Ball movement on offense is excellent, the players seem to have a great instinct of finding open areas and reading each other moves.
Same on the defensive end. Within the game I saw multiple looks, both zone and man to man, and the teams positioning for rebounds is excellent.
Bottom line: Dennis Gates appears to be an excellent coach. I would love to see Cal players have the same court sense that I have seen from Cleveland State.
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Not to be a Debbie Downer, but I wasn't as impressed. Like you, I watched Cleveland State the last two afternoons (the only Cleveland State games I remember watching in my life). I liked the defensive switching from the zone and more aggressive trapping zone to the man. That trapping zone definitely helped spur the comeback against Milwaukee but from my eyes, Cleveland State had the more talented and athletic team in each game.RedlessWardrobe said:
This thread has a lot of theories, contract theories, coaching evaluation theories.
But since its titled "Dennis Gates", let me throw out a casual, perhaps over simplified, basketball fan's opinion.
I've watched Cleveland State the last two nights. I know the level of competition may be shallow, but man, this looks like a VERY well coached team. Ball movement on offense is excellent, the players seem to have a great instinct of finding open areas and reading each other moves.
Same on the defensive end. Within the game I saw multiple looks, both zone and man to man, and the teams positioning for rebounds is excellent.
Bottom line: Dennis Gates appears to be an excellent coach. I would love to see Cal players have the same court sense that I have seen from Cleveland State.
I was actually very unimpressed by the rebounding. It felt like they gave up a ton of rebounds against Milwaukee (I just checked the stats and they were outrebounded against Milwaukee, including 18-9 on the offensive glass. Giving up 18 offensive rebounds is pretty bad.)
If it wasn't for some generous calls towards the end, I don't think they get past Milwaukee. They looked better against Oakland, but again, I'm really not sure how much that was coaching versus just having better athletes (probably some of both).
To me, Gates seems like a very good defensive coach, but still is figuring out the offense. The advanced stats back that up. Obviously Gates is onto something and considered a young, talented coach by many. He's turned around a program in a very short amount of time, which is impressive. While his collection of work over the past two seasons is impressive, I'm not sure I was overly impressed from what I saw the last two games. Just my take.
Nice to get a conflicting opinion. But for the sake of conversation, didn't you notice that offensively the players really had a sense of purpose when interacting with the ball. It seemed instantaneous to me, as far as when to pass and when to move to the open spot. As opposed to watching Cal when the majority of the time, their offense seems so much more reactionary, every movement is just a split second delayed. The difference really stood out to me.
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Yeah, I agree that compared to Cal the offense looked to have more purpose/intention. I think you're right.RedlessWardrobe said:
Nice to get a conflicting opinion. But for the sake of conversation, didn't you notice that offensively the players really had a sense of purpose when interacting with the ball. It seemed instantaneous to me, as far as when to pass and when to move to the open spot. As opposed to watching Cal when the majority of the time, their offense seems so much more reactionary, every movement is just a split second delayed. The difference really stood out to me.
But I'm skeptical of what my eyes from two games tell me, especially when comparing to Cal. I admit I have virtually no knowledge of the Horizon League, but based on what little research I've done, Cleveland State plays with a rotation of basically only juniors and seniors. I'm guessing not only does Cleveland State have more experienced players than a lot of the conference, but also more talented/athletic as opposed to Cal, which is probably the least talented/athletic team in the Pac-12. So, again, I'm not sure how much we should be comparing Cleveland State/Gates to Cal/Fox.
Since I haven't watched much beyond two games, I'd point more to the advanced stats. Cleveland State's offensive efficiency ranks No. 201 in KenPom (Cal's is No. 164), but their defense ranks No. 121 compared to Cal's No. 177). Looking at Horizon League-only games, Cleveland State had the conference's sixth-best offense, according to KenPom, and the second-best defense. Cleveland State also had two players make the league's all-defensive team, including the defensive player of the year.
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