Weren't we a finalist for him? Would love to pick him up as a transfer.

sheki said:

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Weren't we a finalist for him? Would love to pick him up as a transfer.

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Basketball is football trying to get DJ Williams to come to Cal. DJ tried to give Cal a chance but couldn't overcome all the losing.

We did get a 5-star QB to come during the Holmoe years. so there's that.

KoreAmBear said:

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sheki said:

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Weren't we a finalist for him? Would love to pick him up as a transfer.

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Basketball is football trying to get DJ Williams to come to Cal. DJ tried to give Cal a chance but couldn't overcome all the losing.

We did get a 5-star QB to come during the Holmoe years. so there's that.

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Boller was a late bloomer and UCLA and USC already had their QB commits. That said, Holmoe recruited well. Tedford's greatest success was with Holmoe recruits and JC transfers (including some kid from Butte College).

I don't know why we don't go the JC route more in basketball. Ben Braun's early success was built w a bunch of JC guys. Prentice Mcgruder, michael Gill, and Thomas Kilgore come to mind.

sheki said:

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I don't know why we don't go the JC route more in basketball. Ben Braun's early success was built w a bunch of JC guys. Prentice Mcgruder, michael Gill, and Thomas Kilgore come to mind.

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JC basketball is much different today than what it was during Braun's tenure. There simply aren't as many D1 quality players coming out of JC as there was then (UNLV used to be a JC graduate program in bball under Tark). In particular big men, point guards and shooters.

If more players stay for that extra year of eligibility due to COVID, that should take up some slots that would otherwise go to HS or JC recruits. I would think there would be a trickle-down effect such that recruits who would have overlooked Cal might now consider accepting an offer. I know, applying Reaganomics (and I voted for the guy) is probably foolish, but I'm looking for a ray of hope. Plus, Cal would need to have slots available, which they may not.

BeachedBear said:

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sheki said:

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I don't know why we don't go the JC route more in basketball. Ben Braun's early success was built w a bunch of JC guys. Prentice Mcgruder, michael Gill, and Thomas Kilgore come to mind.

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JC basketball is much different today than what it was during Braun's tenure. There simply aren't as many D1 quality players coming out of JC as there was then (UNLV used to be a JC graduate program in bball under Tark). In particular big men, point guards and shooters.

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Yep, we're not the only ones that have ceased adding JUCOs. Pretty rare conference wide.

I watched him a lot this year. For most of the year I felt we didn't miss much by not getting him. However, he really picked it up at the end of the year and got a lot of PT due to injuries to the Gopher guards. Offensively he would definitely be an upgrade over what we have now at PG

Oregon still used a lot of Juco players until recently. Didn't Dennis Gates fill half his squad from the JUCO ranks?

Hearst: best political move you ever made....

sheki said:

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Oregon still used a lot of Juco players until recently. Didn't Dennis Gates fill half his squad from the JUCO ranks?

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My point was that there aren't AS MANY Juco players impacting D1 (in particular High Major) as there used to be. I believe Oregon has been using more D1 transfers where they may have used JuCo players in the past. UA used to be able to plug a hole from Juco ranks as well - but that hasn't been the case for a while.

Cleveland State is not considered high Major - but if the second best argument is Cleveland state? Your honor, I rest my case.

BeachedBear said:

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sheki said:

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Oregon still used a lot of Juco players until recently. Didn't Dennis Gates fill half his squad from the JUCO ranks?

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My point was that there aren't AS MANY Juco players impacting D1 (in particular High Major) as there used to be. I believe Oregon has been using more D1 transfers where they may have used JuCo players in the past. UA used to be able to plug a hole from Juco ranks as well - but that hasn't been the case for a while.

Cleveland State is not considered high Major - but if the second best argument is Cleveland state? Your honor, I rest my case.

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I think the expansion of the NCAA tournament, expansion of cable TV and it's appetite for sports programming and the creation of the transfer portal have all made accepting a scholarship at a small school a better option than going the JC route in basketball. Playing at a small school or mid major is as good a path as any to the Tournament. If you blow up at the small school or mid major level you can still transfer to a bigger program via the portal. Your visibility is enhanced. . If not, you can stay four years and get a free college degree, then maybe grad transfer. Going JC is much riskier. You might play two years and not get picked up by a four year program. The only reason to do it is if you are forced to due to academics or family circumstances.

Football is different. For now. There are not as many programs and it is more difficult to assess how success at lower levels translates. I do think we will start to see more players transfer from smaller programs. I also think JC football's future in California especially is doubtful as it is very difficult to justify the cost and liabilities without there being more fan interest.

sheki said:

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Oregon still used a lot of Juco players until recently. Didn't Dennis Gates fill half his squad from the JUCO ranks?

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Montgomery found a gem in MSF, and I'll bet Cuonzo would have loved to have Kadeem Allen, national JC Player of the year, who was snatched up by Sean Miller. Kadeem was an outstanding defender. But to agree with Beached Bear, there are fewer now.

I believe the biggest obstacle to recruiting JC players is the academic requirements....I believe it was back in the 90's when the NCAA instituted requirements for high school athletes that made many players ineligible to play D1.....these players became what was called "non qualifiers"....they were forced to go to lower level 4 year schools or JCs to improve their academics to meet NCAA D1 standards...Back in Tark's day, enforcement was less strict and requirements lower allowing marginal players to reach eligibility...Schools like Cleveland St. probably allow much weaker academic levels to play....Cal would have a difficult time getting many of these players through admissions, just ask Cuonzo.....

bearmanpg said:

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I believe the biggest obstacle to recruiting JC players is the academic requirements....I believe it was back in the 90's when the NCAA instituted requirements for high school athletes that made many players ineligible to play D1.....these players became what was called "non qualifiers"....they were forced to go to lower level 4 year schools or JCs to improve their academics to meet NCAA D1 standards...Back in Tark's day, enforcement was less strict and requirements lower allowing marginal players to reach eligibility...Schools like Cleveland St. probably allow much weaker academic levels to play....Cal would have a difficult time getting many of these players through admissions, just ask Cuonzo.....

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Players from California JCs are full qualifiers at Cal without SATs as long as they take the UC lower division and get passing grades. It is probably easier than entering from HS.

bearmanpg said:

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I believe the biggest obstacle to recruiting JC players is the academic requirements....I believe it was back in the 90's when the NCAA instituted requirements for high school athletes that made many players ineligible to play D1.....these players became what was called "non qualifiers"....they were forced to go to lower level 4 year schools or JCs to improve their academics to meet NCAA D1 standards...Back in Tark's day, enforcement was less strict and requirements lower allowing marginal players to reach eligibility...Schools like Cleveland St. probably allow much weaker academic levels to play....Cal would have a difficult time getting many of these players through admissions, just ask Cuonzo.....

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Are there any statistics on this? I think you are right about the stiffer requirements today, in terms of getting accepted out of high school, especially to Cal. However, I've known a number of people who did not have the grades or requirements in high school to be admitted to Cal, but who went to JC first and transferred to Cal after one or two years. One was a friend who was the quarterback of our high school football team. He was a bright guy, but didn't study much, and went to CCSF after graduation. A few years later, I ran into him on the Cal campus, and he told me he was getting a degree in Electrical engineering. He eventually got two PhDs and last I heard he was a professor teaching cellular microbiology at the UCLA Brain Research Center. There are many freshmen who are not mature enough for college at 17 or 18 and a year or two at a JC can work wonders for getting a student ready for a school like Cal. I can remember a friend at Cal who flunked out as a freshman, went to CCSF, and returned to Cal a year later and easily graduated with high marks a few years later. I often wish I had gone to a JC first, because I sure wasn't ready for Cal as a freshman. After 2 years, I was flunking out, and had to quit school and go to work to get my head straight. I returned 9 months later and got nearly a 4.0 the last 2 years.

I recently had two cousins who graduated from high school and applied to Cal, but were not accepted. They both went to Foothill College for two years, and then were accepted to Cal. One graduated last year, and the other graduated the year before that, both with Cal degrees. They each told me that it is much easier to get into Cal by going to JC first, than by applying from high school, and a lot of their friends were doing that. This is all anecdotal, and your experience may have been different.

SFCityBear said:

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... I often wish I had gone to a JC first, because I sure wasn't ready for Cal as a freshman. ...

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I went to a JC for one year, then to Cal for three, but the transition was still rough. All my high school buddies who went straight to Cal got on drugs and flunked out by the time I arrived.

stu said:

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SFCityBear said:

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... I often wish I had gone to a JC first, because I sure wasn't ready for Cal as a freshman. ...

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I went to a JC for one year, then to Cal for three, but the transition was still rough. All my high school buddies who went straight to Cal got on drugs and flunked out by the time I arrived.

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Is JC where you learned how to take that engine apart and overhaul it?

Many years after graduating Cal, I took some Mandarin classes at CCSF at night. Instructor I had could really teach. Best teacher I ever had. Anyway, while there, I noticed CCSF had a lot of shop classes, like welding, HVAC, Aircraft maintenance, etc.

SFCityBear said:

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Is JC where you learned how to take that engine apart and overhaul it?

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No, that was at Cal in Ehrman Hall.

Quote:

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Many years after graduating Cal, I took some Mandarin classes at CCSF at night. Instructor I had could really teach. Best teacher I ever had...

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I took some Mandarin classes at SFSU, I think from Prof. Carol Jou. Great teacher who always kept a 7 to 10 PM class lively.

The current Last Chance U on Netflix is a fascinating glimpse into the JC situation. The players are there for a mix of reasons, basically: non qualifiers, "dropdowns" who washed out of a D-1 program, and kids who otherwise missed out on a D-1 offer because of lack of skill or other reasons--all of whom are trying to get their AA degree and a D-1 scholarship offer.

I went to summer school at Merritt College to pick up some credits in the 70s. Back then JC was sometimes derided as "high school with ashtrays." I found the classes way easier than the ones at UC Davis, but taught by great passionate professors. I really enjoyed those summer classes and I learned a lot.

calumnus said:

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bearmanpg said:

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I believe the biggest obstacle to recruiting JC players is the academic requirements....I believe it was back in the 90's when the NCAA instituted requirements for high school athletes that made many players ineligible to play D1.....these players became what was called "non qualifiers"....they were forced to go to lower level 4 year schools or JCs to improve their academics to meet NCAA D1 standards...Back in Tark's day, enforcement was less strict and requirements lower allowing marginal players to reach eligibility...Schools like Cleveland St. probably allow much weaker academic levels to play....Cal would have a difficult time getting many of these players through admissions, just ask Cuonzo.....

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Players from California JCs are full qualifiers at Cal without SATs as long as they take the UC lower division and get passing grades. It is probably easier than entering from HS.

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Wow, I didn't know that....Good info....do you know about out of state JCs?

stu said:

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SFCityBear said:

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Is JC where you learned how to take that engine apart and overhaul it?

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No, that was at Cal in Ehrman Hall.

Quote:

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Many years after graduating Cal, I took some Mandarin classes at CCSF at night. Instructor I had could really teach. Best teacher I ever had...

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I took some Mandarin classes at SFSU, I think from Prof. Carol Jou. Great teacher who always kept a 7 to 10 PM class lively.

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My instructor also taught at SFSU for a while. Maybe they knew each other. Small world. Her name was Doris Chun. We are still great friends. I'll ask Doris if she knew Carol. I hadn't seen her for a few years, and we had lunch. She asked, "What happened to your Chinese? It used to be so good. Now it is like street Chinese." Always picking on me.

bearmanpg said:

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calumnus said:

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bearmanpg said:

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I believe the biggest obstacle to recruiting JC players is the academic requirements....I believe it was back in the 90's when the NCAA instituted requirements for high school athletes that made many players ineligible to play D1.....these players became what was called "non qualifiers"....they were forced to go to lower level 4 year schools or JCs to improve their academics to meet NCAA D1 standards...Back in Tark's day, enforcement was less strict and requirements lower allowing marginal players to reach eligibility...Schools like Cleveland St. probably allow much weaker academic levels to play....Cal would have a difficult time getting many of these players through admissions, just ask Cuonzo.....

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Players from California JCs are full qualifiers at Cal without SATs as long as they take the UC lower division and get passing grades. It is probably easier than entering from HS.

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Wow, I didn't know that....Good info....do you know about out of state JCs?

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The strong California JC sports programs (football especially) are really something we should take advantage of before they are inevitably eliminated in budget cuts.