HoopDreams said:

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boykin was another one with great post footwork, but he transferred in after having more college experience

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And that "experience" was at Duke with Coach K.

MoragaBear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Some love should also go to Makale Foreman who got rolled up good when we were down two and still kept his concentration through pain to hit both free throws to tie it up. Hope he's ok.

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He actually came back in the game a bit later on

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That's great to hear.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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oskidunker said:

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Brown is not a bad three shooter. Thats a positive.

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Agreed, Its bizarre, but based on value/percentage, currently Joel shooting a 3 is a better deal than Joel shooting a free throw. I know this may sound crazy, but maybe Joel should stand back further from the foul line when he shoots his free throws.

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The same was true of Jordan Mathews, to a lesser extent. Jordan was better at shooting threes than he was shooting FTs. At Cal, he shot FTs at 78% (73% at Gonzaga). That's well above average, but I think a player who shoots threes that well (many of them in the clutch) should shoot FTs at least 80% and even 90%. Mathews did not shoot his clutch free throws as well as I would have expected either.

MoragaBear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Some love should also go to Makale Foreman who got rolled up good when we were down two and still kept his concentration through pain to hit both free throws to tie it up. Hope he's ok.

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He actually came back in the game a bit later on

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One player making an effort to get up off the deck while in lots of pain, and instead of sitting down, staying in the game, and making both free throws can go a long way to creating or cementing team chemistry.

Big C said:

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calumnus said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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calumnus said:

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calumnus said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Sam's a hooper!

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We needed a player to emerge this year, Alajiki is now officially that player

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My starting 5:
Kelly
Anticevich
Celestine
Alajiki
Brown

---

Maybe Shepherd, who didn't have a great game. But Joel was rough today. I know he can do better than that, but he needs to lead the way as a PG.

---

Shepard today:
4 points 0 Reb 1 assist (2 of 5) 4 TOs 1 steal 5 fouls

Brown Today
4 points 5 Reb 7 Assists 1 of 7 (0 for 3) 1 steal 2 TOs 4 fouls

Tough, but Edge to Brown. I'd start Brown but bring in Shepard for him for offense and FT shooting at the end.

The Main thing is to never start them together in the back court again. One at a time only. Alajiki is a starter until further notice. Good on both sides of the court.

---

Shepherd and Foreman wouldn't pass if you put them in at QB in Dykes' offense.


I'm really glad we won, so I should be making some more positive comments:

Andre Kelly and Sam Alajiki!!!

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Shepherd and Foreman are not in the game for their passing. Their main job is to shoot and score points.

calumnus said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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calumnus said:

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calumnus said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Sam's a hooper!

---

We needed a player to emerge this year, Alajiki is now officially that player

---

My starting 5:
Kelly
Anticevich
Celestine
Alajiki
Brown

---

Maybe Shepherd, who didn't have a great game. But Joel was rough today. I know he can do better than that, but he needs to lead the way as a PG.

---

Shepard today:
4 points 0 Reb 1 assist (2 of 5) 4 TOs 1 steal 5 fouls

Brown Today
4 points 5 Reb 7 Assists 1 of 7 (0 for 3) 1 steal 2 TOs 4 fouls

Tough, but Edge to Brown. I'd start Brown but bring in Shepard for him for offense and FT shooting at the end.

The Main thing is to never start them together in the back court again. One at a time only. Alajiki is a starter until further notice. Good on both sides of the court.

---

If you want to bring in a player for free throw shooting at the end of games, I'd rather bring in Foreman than Shepherd (depending on matchups, of course) Foreman was the Cal team's best free throw shooter last season, and has shot over 80% almost every season. He is also the team's best 3-point shooter. Shepherd is just above average on FTs, and not a good three point shooter.

I think it is too early to make starting lineup decisions on the basis of seeing a player have one good or one bad game. You seem to have blotted out Shepherd's 27 point first game where he went from being called "Cal's best player" to where you have now dropped to him to playing point guard on the 2nd unit. I sure haven't seen any great passing skill from him yet. Fox says he can do that. We'll see.

With Alajiki, he had a very good game vs S. Utah, but prior to that he has looked a little lost at times out there. He should. All this is new for him. We should take some care in deciding who starts, and Fox seems to do that. I seem to remember it seemed like Ben Braun played so many starting lineups that my companion at games and I both felt he was probably starting the latest player who looked good in practice that week before the game.

is Southern Utah even a school????

SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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calumnus said:

---

calumnus said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Sam's a hooper!

---

We needed a player to emerge this year, Alajiki is now officially that player

---

My starting 5:
Kelly
Anticevich
Celestine
Alajiki
Brown

---

Maybe Shepherd, who didn't have a great game. But Joel was rough today. I know he can do better than that, but he needs to lead the way as a PG.

---

Shepard today:
4 points 0 Reb 1 assist (2 of 5) 4 TOs 1 steal 5 fouls

Brown Today
4 points 5 Reb 7 Assists 1 of 7 (0 for 3) 1 steal 2 TOs 4 fouls

Tough, but Edge to Brown. I'd start Brown but bring in Shepard for him for offense and FT shooting at the end.

The Main thing is to never start them together in the back court again. One at a time only. Alajiki is a starter until further notice. Good on both sides of the court.

---

If you want to bring in a player for free throw shooting at the end of games, I'd rather bring in Foreman than Shepherd (depending on matchups, of course) Foreman was the Cal team's best free throw shooter last season, and has shot over 80% almost every season. He is also the team's best 3-point shooter. Shepherd is just above average on FTs, and not a good three point shooter.

I think it is too early to make starting lineup decisions on the basis of seeing a player have one good or one bad game. You seem to have blotted out Shepherd's 27 point first game where he went from being called "Cal's best player" to where you have now dropped to him to playing point guard on the 2nd unit. I sure haven't seen any great passing skill from him yet. Fox says he can do that. We'll see.

With Alajiki, he had a very good game vs S. Utah, but prior to that he has looked a little lost at times out there. He should. All this is new for him. We should take some care in deciding who starts, and Fox seems to do that. I seem to remember it seemed like Ben Braun played so many starting lineups that my companion at games and I both felt he was probably starting the latest player who looked good in practice that week before the game.

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a lot depends on match ups and what is working and not working

very early in the season with the coaches trying out different lineups and different roles

as for Sam, the revelation is he can play along side our senior bigs against certain line ups. Looks like he potentially can defend 1-4, can hit an open 3 and grab some tough rebounds

will he be able to do that against different opponents, on a consistent basis, against pac 12 players?

probably not all of the above, but he can contribute and that is a good thing

SFCityBear said:

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Big C said:

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calumnus said:

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KoreAmBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

calumnus said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Sam's a hooper!

---

We needed a player to emerge this year, Alajiki is now officially that player

---

My starting 5:
Kelly
Anticevich
Celestine
Alajiki
Brown

---

Maybe Shepherd, who didn't have a great game. But Joel was rough today. I know he can do better than that, but he needs to lead the way as a PG.

---

Shepard today:
4 points 0 Reb 1 assist (2 of 5) 4 TOs 1 steal 5 fouls

Brown Today
4 points 5 Reb 7 Assists 1 of 7 (0 for 3) 1 steal 2 TOs 4 fouls

Tough, but Edge to Brown. I'd start Brown but bring in Shepard for him for offense and FT shooting at the end.

The Main thing is to never start them together in the back court again. One at a time only. Alajiki is a starter until further notice. Good on both sides of the court.

---

Shepherd and Foreman wouldn't pass if you put them in at QB in Dykes' offense.


I'm really glad we won, so I should be making some more positive comments:

Andre Kelly and Sam Alajiki!!!

---

Shepherd and Foreman are not in the game for their passing. Their main job is to shoot and score points.

---

If Shepherd and Foreman are going to actually score a decent amount of points with all the shots they take, then I'm fine with that. In fact, I am rooting for them to do it.

And SFCityBear, you know (probably more than most) that a team is going to be better all-around if its shooter/scorers can also pass effectively, when the situation calls for it.

I read that Fox felt Bradley should pass more

After Shepards big game, Fox said something about a player who made others around him better

I think he was referring to Shepard with a subtle dig on Matt

At the time I thought it was uncool, but after seeing Shepard more, it also may be untrue

In 4 games Shepherd has 7 assists and 53 FGA, ratios similar to Bradley's but Bradley shot better.

At the other end I like Shepherd's 9 steals in 4 games.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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HoopDreams said:

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I read that Fox felt Bradley should pass more

After Shepards big game, Fox said something about a player who made others around him better

I think he was referring to Shepard with a subtle dig on Matt

At the time I thought it was uncool, but after seeing Shepard more, it also may be untrue

---

HD, I don't like to be a pain, but can you be more specific about what you read? And do you really think Fox' current comments are fixated on a guy from last year's team? Excuse me for saying it, but it sure sounds like you're stirring up sh*t that isn't real.

---

thanks for calling me out on this. i probably deserve it.

I may have read more into it than there was, and I tried to find the quote or post-game interview where he said it and couldn't. There were some comments about sharing the ball and making others better, but I couldn't find anything where fox made a reference to a specific player

I always try to ride with the coach regardless of what i think of them, and that includes staying positive and supporting the players, coaches and team in general. I am however sometimes critical of a coach or player in a specific situation or talk about a weakness, but don't often get in the blame game or fire this coach or that coach, etc.

I understood one of the frictions between the two was Fox felt Bradley didn't pass more. May or may not be true, but IMHO a coach has to keep his franchise player, and although I don't know the full story, he didn't do that

HoopDreams said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

HoopDreams said:

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I read that Fox felt Bradley should pass more

After Shepards big game, Fox said something about a player who made others around him better

I think he was referring to Shepard with a subtle dig on Matt

At the time I thought it was uncool, but after seeing Shepard more, it also may be untrue

---

HD, I don't like to be a pain, but can you be more specific about what you read? And do you really think Fox' current comments are fixated on a guy from last year's team? Excuse me for saying it, but it sure sounds like you're stirring up sh*t that isn't real.

---

thanks for calling me out on this. i probably deserve it.

I may have read more into it than there was, and I tried to find the quote or post-game interview where he said it and couldn't. There were some comments about sharing the ball and making others better, but I couldn't find anything where fox made a reference to a specific player

I always try to ride with the coach regardless of what i think of them, and that includes staying positive and supporting the players, coaches and team in general. I am however sometimes critical of a coach or player in a specific situation or talk about a weakness, but don't often get in the blame game or fire this coach or that coach, etc.

I understood one of the frictions between the two was Fox felt Bradley didn't pass more. May or may not be true, but IMHO a coach has to keep his franchise player, and although I don't know the full story, he didn't do that

---

I seem to remember that Fox made a statement when he signed Shepherd (or shortly after) that Shepherd was a scorer, and that he also was a player who looked to make his teammates better. I took that to mean he would pass to them when they were open, or he would try to do things to help them get open. He did have 2 good games scoring the ball, but I'm still waiting for him to make his teammates better. Scoring is mostly an individual thing, and I'd expect him to do some of that right away. Making your teammates better is a skill requiring him to spend hours working with his teammates, learning their tendencies, where they like to shoot from, learning plays, etc., before that can jell. Unless he is Jason Kidd, which he isn't.

SFCityBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

HoopDreams said:

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I read that Fox felt Bradley should pass more

After Shepards big game, Fox said something about a player who made others around him better

I think he was referring to Shepard with a subtle dig on Matt

At the time I thought it was uncool, but after seeing Shepard more, it also may be untrue

---

HD, I don't like to be a pain, but can you be more specific about what you read? And do you really think Fox' current comments are fixated on a guy from last year's team? Excuse me for saying it, but it sure sounds like you're stirring up sh*t that isn't real.

---

thanks for calling me out on this. i probably deserve it.

I may have read more into it than there was, and I tried to find the quote or post-game interview where he said it and couldn't. There were some comments about sharing the ball and making others better, but I couldn't find anything where fox made a reference to a specific player

I always try to ride with the coach regardless of what i think of them, and that includes staying positive and supporting the players, coaches and team in general. I am however sometimes critical of a coach or player in a specific situation or talk about a weakness, but don't often get in the blame game or fire this coach or that coach, etc.

I understood one of the frictions between the two was Fox felt Bradley didn't pass more. May or may not be true, but IMHO a coach has to keep his franchise player, and although I don't know the full story, he didn't do that

---

I seem to remember that Fox made a statement when he signed Shepherd (or shortly after) that Shepherd was a scorer, and that he also was a player who looked to make his teammates better. I took that to mean he would pass to them when they were open, or he would try to do things to help them get open. He did have 2 good games scoring the ball, but I'm still waiting for him to make his teammates better. Scoring is mostly an individual thing, and I'd expect him to do some of that right away. Making your teammates better is a skill requiring him to spend hours working with his teammates, learning their tendencies, where they like to shoot from, learning plays, etc., before that can jell. Unless he is Jason Kidd, which he isn't.

---

Thanks SF. I think this is what I was remembering

refs made a scoring error. southern utah player hit 2 FTs, but was only awarded one point.

the regular periods went into OT, and of course Cal won in double OT

But regardless, this was early in the first half, and Cal would have played the final minutes differently if the score was different. The scoring error does not mean that southern Utah should have won in regulalation.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/32683410/southern-utah-cites-scorer-error-double-ot-men-basketball-loss-california

It's pretty bad when you need to take your own game video just to get the score right.

HoopDreams said:

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refs made a scoring error. southern utah player hit 2 FTs, but was only awarded one point.

the regular periods went into OT, and of course Cal won in double OT

But regardless, this was early in the first half, and Cal would have played the final minutes differently if the score was different. The scoring error does not mean that southern Utah should have won in regulalation.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/32683410/southern-utah-cites-scorer-error-double-ot-men-basketball-loss-california

---

This is so bad - something as simple as this should never, ever happen. Regardless of differing strategy if Cal was down by 1 point more, I'd be livid if I were a Southern Utah fan.

Can you imagine how pissed all of us would be if we were cheated out of 1 point, and then the game goes to (double) OT?

cal would have shot and hit a 3, instead of shoot a two

it would have gone to OT in any respect

HoopDreams said:

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cal would have shot and hit a 3, instead of shoot a two

it would have gone to OT in any respect

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Maybe, or forced to attempt the three to tie on our last few possessions we miss, instead of being able to go inside for easy scores to tie the game. We were 8 of 26 (.308) on threes.

In any case the fact is Southern Utah scored more points in regulation. I would be pissed.

stu said:

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In 4 games Shepherd has 7 assists and 53 FGA, ratios similar to Bradley's but Bradley shot better.

At the other end I like Shepherd's 9 steals in 4 games.

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I see 8 steals and 8 turnovers.

In the advanced stats, Shepard is the 10th most valuable player on the team per minute played.

MoragaBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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I read that Fox felt Bradley should pass more

After Shepards big game, Fox said something about a player who made others around him better

I think he was referring to Shepard with a subtle dig on Matt

At the time I thought it was uncool, but after seeing Shepard more, it also may be untrue

---

Both Kelly and Anticevich said that Shepherd was really good about hitting them in the flow of the game at Pac-12 media day.

---

Not sure if it was the SUU or USD game, but Shepherd did make a sweet frozen rope dish to Kelly in traffic for an easy bucket. I know he sees the floor. I'm not sure if Fox told him he needs to score. I hope he's not overcompensating and instead just plays within himself.

HoopDreams said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

I read that Fox felt Bradley should pass more

After Shepards big game, Fox said something about a player who made others around him better

I think he was referring to Shepard with a subtle dig on Matt

At the time I thought it was uncool, but after seeing Shepard more, it also may be untrue

---

HD, I don't like to be a pain, but can you be more specific about what you read? And do you really think Fox' current comments are fixated on a guy from last year's team? Excuse me for saying it, but it sure sounds like you're stirring up sh*t that isn't real.

---

thanks for calling me out on this. i probably deserve it.

I may have read more into it than there was, and I tried to find the quote or post-game interview where he said it and couldn't. There were some comments about sharing the ball and making others better, but I couldn't find anything where fox made a reference to a specific player

I always try to ride with the coach regardless of what i think of them, and that includes staying positive and supporting the players, coaches and team in general. I am however sometimes critical of a coach or player in a specific situation or talk about a weakness, but don't often get in the blame game or fire this coach or that coach, etc.

I understood one of the frictions between the two was Fox felt Bradley didn't pass more. May or may not be true, but IMHO a coach has to keep his franchise player, and although I don't know the full story, he didn't do that

---

hey HD, its all good, I probably shouldn't appoint myself as a gossip cop anyway. Lets hope moving forward that the team excels in assist/turnover ratio so that we can win some games we're not expected to win,(which is basically close to all of them!)

HoopDreams said:

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refs made a scoring error. southern utah player hit 2 FTs, but was only awarded one point.

the regular periods went into OT, and of course Cal won in double OT

But regardless, this was early in the first half, and Cal would have played the final minutes differently if the score was different. The scoring error does not mean that southern Utah should have won in regulalation.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/32683410/southern-utah-cites-scorer-error-double-ot-men-basketball-loss-california

---

Bizarre. When I heard this today I instantly remembered watching the broadcast Thursday night when early second half, the scoreboard on the screen fluctuated going both directions for about 2 minutes before becoming normal again.
Kind of reminds me of the Virginia game a few years back when we got called for the shot clock violation after scoring on the "inaccurate" shot clock. Lost 2 points on that one, but I guess in this situation too much happened after the error to reverse anything (basically the game outcome due to the tie at the end of regulation).

Big C said:

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SFCityBear said:

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Big C said:

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calumnus said:

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KoreAmBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

calumnus said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Sam's a hooper!

---

We needed a player to emerge this year, Alajiki is now officially that player

---

My starting 5:
Kelly
Anticevich
Celestine
Alajiki
Brown

---

Maybe Shepherd, who didn't have a great game. But Joel was rough today. I know he can do better than that, but he needs to lead the way as a PG.

---

Shepard today:
4 points 0 Reb 1 assist (2 of 5) 4 TOs 1 steal 5 fouls

Brown Today
4 points 5 Reb 7 Assists 1 of 7 (0 for 3) 1 steal 2 TOs 4 fouls

Tough, but Edge to Brown. I'd start Brown but bring in Shepard for him for offense and FT shooting at the end.

The Main thing is to never start them together in the back court again. One at a time only. Alajiki is a starter until further notice. Good on both sides of the court.

---

Shepherd and Foreman wouldn't pass if you put them in at QB in Dykes' offense.


I'm really glad we won, so I should be making some more positive comments:

Andre Kelly and Sam Alajiki!!!

---

Shepherd and Foreman are not in the game for their passing. Their main job is to shoot and score points.

---

If Shepherd and Foreman are going to actually score a decent amount of points with all the shots they take, then I'm fine with that. In fact, I am rooting for them to do it.

And SFCityBear, you know (probably more than most) that a team is going to be better all-around if its shooter/scorers can also pass effectively, when the situation calls for it.

---

I'd agree with your first point. Both of them can take plenty of shots, but Cal doesn't have any other proven options at the SG position. Actually, Shepherd has had only one bad game shooting the ball, UNLV. Against S. Utah, he took only 5 shots and made 2.

As to your second point, effective passing includes passes for which there is no statistic of good passes which don't result right away in a bucket, like passes to start a play, but here's a list of some of the last few Cal SGs and their shot attempts and assists/40 min, ranked by Assists/40 min.

Jorge 13 FGA, 5.3 Assists (2011 and 2012 when he played mostly SG)
Shepherd 10.8 FGA, 4.0 Assists (before playing at Cal)
Shepherd 17.1 FGA, 2.2 Assists (4 games at Cal)
Foreman 13.1 FGA, 3.0 Assists (last season at Cal)
Foreman 11.0 FGA, 2.4 Assists (3 games at Cal this season)
Bradley 12.0 FGA, 2.9 Assists Freshman year at Cal,when he played SG
Mullins 10.1 FGA, 2.6 Assists (at Cal only)
Don Coleman 16.4 FGA, 2.4 Assists
Jabari Bird 13.5 FGA, 1.8 Assists
Kareem South 11.6 FGA, 1.3 Assists (at Cal only)
Jordan Mathews 8.8 FGA, 1.1 Assists
Patrick Christopher 13.8 FGA, 1.0 Assists

Shepherd took a lot of shots in his first game. He got hot, and I'm pretty sure his coach and his teammates wanted him to keep shooting. In his second game, he continued to shoot a lot of shots, probably because he and maybe his coach and his teammates expected him to stay hot. He did not. He still is shooting .400, way above his career percentages, so I expect his percentage to go down some, and I expect his assists may go up as he gets more familiar with his teammates and Cal's plays.

Foreman had a decent number of assists per 40 minutes last season, and this season, he has only taken 14 shots in 3 games, so why accuse him of shooting a lot and not passing the ball? Foreman has been consistent over his career, except his FG% dropped when he came to Cal. I think we can expect him to get the same number of assists, which is OK, and I hope his FG% goes back to his career average.