I doubt any serious player would want to come in and milk the clock.

Cal hurts recruiting...

helltopay1 said:

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Cal hurts recruiting...

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6 years ago we had 4 Top 100 recruits, 3 McDonald's All Americans on the roster. One, Jaylen Brown, came all the way to Cal from Georgia, because of Cal. Cal helps recruiting.

calumnus said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Cal hurts recruiting...

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6 years ago we had 4 Top 100 recruits, 3 McDonald's All Americans on the roster. One, Jaylen Brown, came all the way to Cal from Georgia, because of Cal. Cal helps recruiting.

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Very rare, and under a different coach with a different system. Cal's performance since that year hurts recruiting.

bluesaxe said:

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calumnus said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Cal hurts recruiting...

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6 years ago we had 4 Top 100 recruits, 3 McDonald's All Americans on the roster. One, Jaylen Brown, came all the way to Cal from Georgia, because of Cal. Cal helps recruiting.

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Very rare, and under a different coach with a different system. Cal's performance since that year hurts recruiting.

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I was responding to Hell

KoreAmBear said:

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Losing hurts recruiting.

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Agree

But having a compelling story helps recruiting

Teams that can demonstrate that the team is trending up can improve recruiting

Problem is, our best 3 players are graduating and besides Celestine, there aren't enough obvious players to take on the scoring role

We absolutely need to hit the transfer market and get at least 2 ready to go impact players

HoopDreams said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Losing hurts recruiting.

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Agree

But having a compelling story helps recruiting

Teams that can demonstrate that the team is trending up can improve recruiting

Problem is, our best 3 players are graduating and besides Celestine, there aren't enough obvious players to take on the scoring role

We absolutely need to hit the transfer market and get at least 2 ready to go impact players

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Look at what happened when we were in the throes of our losing streak in football.

We lost our 3 best recruits including Jaydn Ott.

Then we started winning a little bit, Jaydn Ott reconsidered, and momentum has shifted back.

We have lost the following 50-50 games away from Haas (almost all in similar fashion where we went scoreless for long stretches or the other team went on a lopsided run at a decisive point in the second half to create separation) and they have really hurt the program: UNLV, Seton Hall, Utah, UW and Wazzu. Win 1-2 or two of them we have some momentum. Losing all of them continues the storyline that this is a sad program, and yet this is the best it is going to get under Fox.

Cuonzo was maybe a worst offensive coach vs Fox
Never has a team did so little with the talent that Cuonzo brought in

diva1 said:

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Cuonzo was maybe a worst offensive coach vs Fox
Never has a team did so little with the talent that Cuonzo brought in

---

#53 offense and #19 defense according to Ken Pom.

There are lots of examples of hard nosed defensive minded coaches coming in after a good recruiter and having success getting talented kids from the prior coach to play tough defense. For awhile that initial success is self sustaining, as recruits are attracted to success. Eventually word gets out, players leave and the recruits stop coming. Howland following Lavin at UCLA is a good example.

Cuonzo basically was both coaches at Tennessee and at Cal, but is in the fade out phase at Missouri.

Fox was the hard nosed guy at Nevada following Trent Johnson, great first 3 years, then CBI teams in years 4 and 5. He was then the same at Georgia, having some success initially with the team he inherited, landing a top player (KCP), then sliding into mediocrity until fired. At Cal he played the same role, he got the guys who remained from Wyking's squad to play better defense. However, in the current era, with the Internet and the portal, then his own disastrous first meeting, not enough talent stayed. And while more talented than the current squad, they we're not nearly as talented as previous Cal teams just a few years ears earlier under Cuonzo.

calumnus said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Cal hurts recruiting...

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6 years ago we had 4 Top 100 recruits, 3 McDonald's All Americans on the roster. One, Jaylen Brown, came all the way to Cal from Georgia, because of Cal. Cal helps recruiting.

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Of the 3 McD's, 2 were local, 1 of those had a father who played at Cal, and the 3rd was recruited by Rabb.....

I think that Cuonzo Martin's inability to develop Ivan Rabb or Jaylen Brown while they were at Cal hurt later high level recruiting, along with the disaster of Wyking Jones. Cuonzo never wrote up reasonable offensive play that helped them to succeed. You can recognize this inability to coach and over-reliance solely on player's incoming skill sets in childhood teams, high school, and at the college level.

Cal's current players are showing nice development (for the most part), suggesting that they are being taught and reminded of fundamentals.

calumnus said:

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diva1 said:

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Cuonzo was maybe a worst offensive coach vs Fox
Never has a team did so little with the talent that Cuonzo brought in

---

#53 offense and #19 defense according to Ken Pom.

There are lots of examples of hard nosed defensive minded coaches coming in after a good recruiter and having success getting talented kids from the prior coach to play tough defense. For awhile that initial success is self sustaining, as recruits are attracted to success. Eventually word gets out, players leave and the recruits stop coming. Howland following Lavin at UCLA is a good example.

Cuonzo basically was both coaches at Tennessee and at Cal, but is in the fade out phase at Missouri.

Fox was the hard nosed guy at Nevada following Trent Johnson, great first 3 years, then CBI teams in years 4 and 5. He was then the same at Georgia, having some success initially with the team he inherited, landing a top player (KCP), then sliding into mediocrity until fired. At Cal he played the same role, he got the guys who remained from Wyking's squad to play better defense. However, in the current era, with the Internet and the portal, then his own disastrous first meeting, not enough talent stayed. And while more talented than the current squad, they we're not nearly as talented as previous Cal teams just a few years ears earlier under Cuonzo.

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calumnus, do you have access to kenpom's data for cal's o & d efficiency rankings over the last 10 years or so? I'm just curious how the efficiency numbers line up with what we think of our previous coaching staffs.

socaltownie said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

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I think that Cuonzo Martin's inability to develop Ivan Rabb or Jaylen Brown while they were at Cal hurt later high level recruiting, along with the disaster of Wyking Jones. Cuonzo never wrote up reasonable offensive play that helped them to succeed. You can recognize this inability to coach and over-reliance solely on player's incoming skill sets in childhood teams, high school, and at the college level.

Cal's current players are showing nice development (for the most part), suggesting that they are being taught and reminded of fundamentals.

---

Brown was hear for 1/2 of a year and much of the frustration with his (lack) of development is a function of how he has grown as a player with being able to dedicate himself 100% to the craft as a pro.

Martin did fine. We had the highest seed we have EVER had and absent a bizarre series of event are probably talking about his third contract extension and the statue of him for getting us back to the S16.

Cal's current players are on a 4 game losing streak as they play against PAC 12 talent.

---

agree. losing 2 starters at the last second, resulting in flaming out in the NCAA has really shaded most people's opinion of that team

We would have gotten to the sweet sixteen at a minimum, and had the potential to go deeper

did Martin under utilize that team offensively? I think so, primarily because he didn't design an offense that took better advantage of our shooters, nor Ivan. Instead he gave the ball to Brown a little too often, and teams started to defend his drive, forcing him into more of a shooter which he was not at the time.

BUT, earning a 4 seed and sweeping the home schedule shows he got this team to a very high level, despite that we only went 7 deep (8 and after were weak as our NCAA game demonstrated when 3 of them were forced to play)

If we make the S16 or farther, it could have changed the Cal basketball narrative and been the spring board to get on the college basketball map like many other programs have been able to do (Texas Tech is a recent example). Even signing one elite player for the next year would have gotten us to the NCAA again as we were very close without a new impact player.

CalLifer said:

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HoopDreams said:

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socaltownie said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

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I think that Cuonzo Martin's inability to develop Ivan Rabb or Jaylen Brown while they were at Cal hurt later high level recruiting, along with the disaster of Wyking Jones. Cuonzo never wrote up reasonable offensive play that helped them to succeed. You can recognize this inability to coach and over-reliance solely on player's incoming skill sets in childhood teams, high school, and at the college level.

Cal's current players are showing nice development (for the most part), suggesting that they are being taught and reminded of fundamentals.

---

Brown was hear for 1/2 of a year and much of the frustration with his (lack) of development is a function of how he has grown as a player with being able to dedicate himself 100% to the craft as a pro.

Martin did fine. We had the highest seed we have EVER had and absent a bizarre series of event are probably talking about his third contract extension and the statue of him for getting us back to the S16.

Cal's current players are on a 4 game losing streak as they play against PAC 12 talent.

---

agree. losing 2 starters at the last second, resulting in flaming out in the NCAA has really shaded most people's opinion of that team

We would have gotten to the sweet sixteen at a minimum, and had the potential to go deeper

did Martin under utilize that team offensively? I think so, primarily because he didn't design an offense that took better advantage of our shooters, nor Ivan. Instead he gave the ball to Brown a little too often, and teams started to defend his drive, forcing him into more of a shooter which he was not at the time.

BUT, earning a 4 seed and sweeping the home schedule shows he got this team to a very high level, despite that we only went 7 deep (8 and after were weak as our NCAA game demonstrated when 3 of them were forced to play)

If we make the S16 or farther, it could have changed the Cal basketball narrative and been the spring board to get on the college basketball map like many other programs have been able to do (Texas Tech is a recent example). Even signing one elite player for the next year would have gotten us to the NCAA again as we were very close without a new impact player.

---

My only pushback on that was our top 7/8 were:

Brown
Rabb
Wallace
Bird
Mathews
Singer
Rooks/Okoroh

To start, who are the shooters on that team? Basically just Bird and Mathews. In an ideal world, we would have played Rabb at C and allowed Bird and Mathews to share the floor while allowing Rabb to use his athleticism against bigger centers (in a real ideal world, Domingo would have helped there too... oh well). However, I believe Martin did try that and we were pretty bad defensively, so he preferred to have one of Rooks or Okoroh out there. That being the case, with Wallace/Brown/Rabb taking 3 of the other 4 spots, we really only could have one of Bird/Mathews out there at a given time. So I don't think it's as easy as it seems.

The larger problem, I think, is that the team wasn't balanced all that well and was top heavy (not that surprising for a coach in his second year how brought in two 5-star freshman). I think it's rather a credit to Cuonzo that we were at #53 for offensive efficiency and #19 on defensive efficiency with the roster construction we had..,. and yes, as a defense-first coach, he was going to prioritize lineups that succeeded on that side of the ball, but for all the bashing of Cuonzo's offense, we actually had a perfectly reasonable offensive season.

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Agreed. Good post.

BearoutEast67 said:

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I think that Cuonzo Martin's inability to develop Ivan Rabb or Jaylen Brown while they were at Cal hurt later high level recruiting, along with the disaster of Wyking Jones. Cuonzo never wrote up reasonable offensive play that helped them to succeed. You can recognize this inability to coach and over-reliance solely on player's incoming skill sets in childhood teams, high school, and at the college level.

Cal's current players are showing nice development (for the most part), suggesting that they are being taught and reminded of fundamentals.

---

Cuonzo had a lot of good players interested and ready to come to Cal the year after. Most of them couldn't get through admissions or had to be cut for other reasons. See Davon Dillard and Tyson Jolly, both 4 star guys who were committed to us at one point. He did land Charlie Moore, a top 100 player though.

CalLifer said:

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HoopDreams said:

---

socaltownie said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

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I think that Cuonzo Martin's inability to develop Ivan Rabb or Jaylen Brown while they were at Cal hurt later high level recruiting, along with the disaster of Wyking Jones. Cuonzo never wrote up reasonable offensive play that helped them to succeed. You can recognize this inability to coach and over-reliance solely on player's incoming skill sets in childhood teams, high school, and at the college level.

Cal's current players are showing nice development (for the most part), suggesting that they are being taught and reminded of fundamentals.

---

Brown was hear for 1/2 of a year and much of the frustration with his (lack) of development is a function of how he has grown as a player with being able to dedicate himself 100% to the craft as a pro.

Martin did fine. We had the highest seed we have EVER had and absent a bizarre series of event are probably talking about his third contract extension and the statue of him for getting us back to the S16.

Cal's current players are on a 4 game losing streak as they play against PAC 12 talent.

---

agree. losing 2 starters at the last second, resulting in flaming out in the NCAA has really shaded most people's opinion of that team

We would have gotten to the sweet sixteen at a minimum, and had the potential to go deeper

did Martin under utilize that team offensively? I think so, primarily because he didn't design an offense that took better advantage of our shooters, nor Ivan. Instead he gave the ball to Brown a little too often, and teams started to defend his drive, forcing him into more of a shooter which he was not at the time.

BUT, earning a 4 seed and sweeping the home schedule shows he got this team to a very high level, despite that we only went 7 deep (8 and after were weak as our NCAA game demonstrated when 3 of them were forced to play)

If we make the S16 or farther, it could have changed the Cal basketball narrative and been the spring board to get on the college basketball map like many other programs have been able to do (Texas Tech is a recent example). Even signing one elite player for the next year would have gotten us to the NCAA again as we were very close without a new impact player.

---

My only pushback on that was our top 7/8 were:

Brown
Rabb
Wallace
Bird
Mathews
Singer
Rooks/Okoroh

To start, who are the shooters on that team? Basically just Bird and Mathews. In an ideal world, we would have played Rabb at C and allowed Bird and Mathews to share the floor while allowing Rabb to use his athleticism against bigger centers (in a real ideal world, Domingo would have helped there too... oh well). However, I believe Martin did try that and we were pretty bad defensively, so he preferred to have one of Rooks or Okoroh out there. That being the case, with Wallace/Brown/Rabb taking 3 of the other 4 spots, we really only could have one of Bird/Mathews out there at a given time. So I don't think it's as easy as it seems.

The larger problem, I think, is that the team wasn't balanced all that well and was top heavy (not that surprising for a coach in his second year how brought in two 5-star freshman). I think it's rather a credit to Cuonzo that we were at #53 for offensive efficiency and #19 on defensive efficiency with the roster construction we had..,. and yes, as a defense-first coach, he was going to prioritize lineups that succeeded on that side of the ball, but for all the bashing of Cuonzo's offense, we actually had a perfectly reasonable offensive season.

---

Plus many. And really Sam, while a great kid and competitor, was at best an average D1/P5 Point guard. IIRC when Ty hurt the first time we struggled. Anytime Mathews or Bird got in foul trouble we struggled. When we tried to play the three guards out there on the court typically the other size posted up someone or forced Mathews/Bird to guard the perimeter.

concernedparent said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

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I think that Cuonzo Martin's inability to develop Ivan Rabb or Jaylen Brown while they were at Cal hurt later high level recruiting, along with the disaster of Wyking Jones. Cuonzo never wrote up reasonable offensive play that helped them to succeed. You can recognize this inability to coach and over-reliance solely on player's incoming skill sets in childhood teams, high school, and at the college level.

Cal's current players are showing nice development (for the most part), suggesting that they are being taught and reminded of fundamentals.

---

Cuonzo had a lot of good players interested and ready to come to Cal the year after. Most of them couldn't get through admissions or had to be cut for other reasons. See Davon Dillard and Tyson Jolly, both 4 star guys who were committed to us at one point. He did land Charlie Moore, a top 100 player though.

---

I don't believe Davon Dillard was a 4-star. Regardless, he averaged less than 5ppg before being kicked off the OK St squad his junior year for disciplinary reasons. Apparently, the reason was serious enough that he did not return to D1 hoops.

Jolly had a fairly productive career at three different schools.

Civil Bear said:

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concernedparent said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

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I think that Cuonzo Martin's inability to develop Ivan Rabb or Jaylen Brown while they were at Cal hurt later high level recruiting, along with the disaster of Wyking Jones. Cuonzo never wrote up reasonable offensive play that helped them to succeed. You can recognize this inability to coach and over-reliance solely on player's incoming skill sets in childhood teams, high school, and at the college level.

Cal's current players are showing nice development (for the most part), suggesting that they are being taught and reminded of fundamentals.

---

Cuonzo had a lot of good players interested and ready to come to Cal the year after. Most of them couldn't get through admissions or had to be cut for other reasons. See Davon Dillard and Tyson Jolly, both 4 star guys who were committed to us at one point. He did land Charlie Moore, a top 100 player though.

---

I don't believe Davon Dillard was a 4-star. Regardless, he averaged less than 5ppg before being kicked off the OK St squad his junior year for disciplinary reasons. Apparently, the reason was serious enough that he did not return to D1 hoops.

Jolly had a fairly productive career at three different schools.

---

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/187132/davon-dillard

Now, in hind sight I am glad he didn't come to Cal, but the point was that Cuonzo was getting solid prospects interested in Cal despite not developing Brown or Rabb much.

concernedparent said:

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Civil Bear said:

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concernedparent said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

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I think that Cuonzo Martin's inability to develop Ivan Rabb or Jaylen Brown while they were at Cal hurt later high level recruiting, along with the disaster of Wyking Jones. Cuonzo never wrote up reasonable offensive play that helped them to succeed. You can recognize this inability to coach and over-reliance solely on player's incoming skill sets in childhood teams, high school, and at the college level.

Cal's current players are showing nice development (for the most part), suggesting that they are being taught and reminded of fundamentals.

---

Cuonzo had a lot of good players interested and ready to come to Cal the year after. Most of them couldn't get through admissions or had to be cut for other reasons. See Davon Dillard and Tyson Jolly, both 4 star guys who were committed to us at one point. He did land Charlie Moore, a top 100 player though.

---

I don't believe Davon Dillard was a 4-star. Regardless, he averaged less than 5ppg before being kicked off the OK St squad his junior year for disciplinary reasons. Apparently, the reason was serious enough that he did not return to D1 hoops.

Jolly had a fairly productive career at three different schools.

---

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/187132/davon-dillard

Now, in hind sight I am glad he didn't come to Cal, but the point was that Cuonzo was getting solid prospects interested in Cal despite not developing Brown or Rabb much.

---

Yup. And Martin hasn't recruited poorly to Mizzu either.

College sports IS about talent. There is just no other way to skin that cat. And a way to think about that is that there are limits on practice. There is only so much "teaching" that can go on in basketball. Unlike even football there is not really a secret sauce looking to be created which will be an innovation that creates a sustained advantage.

Now some success comes from external factors. It would be an "interesting" experiment to imagine Coach K and Dean Smith not in the ACC - a league that was well positioned to satisfy ESPN's need for content in the east coast time zone - but whose careers led them to Basketball wildernesses. Clearly great coaches but never doubt they benefitted from the exposure created by the corporate overlords in Bristol. And you need to look no further than the implosion of the Big East and how once mightly programs boolstered by ESPN have receeded.

But regardless of the "why" the What is indisputable. As posted on this site, Cal's best years occured when it had NBA qualified talent. We have NEVER had a squad - at least in the modern era - that was put together in an odd fashion with a bunch of guys whose ceiling was international play. I THINK that is because we play in a league with NBA level talent - which means you can't build a great squad of team guys and then get hot in March (see a LOT of Cinderella stories). This is because over the course of home and homes the good teams get enough tape on you to ring you up for 6 to 8 losses. and then you end up on the bubble and you end up playing the seed of death (the 8/9 game). Even more true in the pod era.

So that is the story. You can respect Mark Fox as a teacher but the talent gap is vast. Until Cal recruits we are what we are. Same story, frankly, as Monty who mailed it in during his time at Cal and lost too many times to more talented if less well coached teams from Oregon and Arizona.

socaltownie said:

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concernedparent said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

concernedparent said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

I think that Cuonzo Martin's inability to develop Ivan Rabb or Jaylen Brown while they were at Cal hurt later high level recruiting, along with the disaster of Wyking Jones. Cuonzo never wrote up reasonable offensive play that helped them to succeed. You can recognize this inability to coach and over-reliance solely on player's incoming skill sets in childhood teams, high school, and at the college level.

Cal's current players are showing nice development (for the most part), suggesting that they are being taught and reminded of fundamentals.

---

Cuonzo had a lot of good players interested and ready to come to Cal the year after. Most of them couldn't get through admissions or had to be cut for other reasons. See Davon Dillard and Tyson Jolly, both 4 star guys who were committed to us at one point. He did land Charlie Moore, a top 100 player though.

---

I don't believe Davon Dillard was a 4-star. Regardless, he averaged less than 5ppg before being kicked off the OK St squad his junior year for disciplinary reasons. Apparently, the reason was serious enough that he did not return to D1 hoops.

Jolly had a fairly productive career at three different schools.

---

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/187132/davon-dillard

Now, in hind sight I am glad he didn't come to Cal, but the point was that Cuonzo was getting solid prospects interested in Cal despite not developing Brown or Rabb much.

---

Yup. And Martin hasn't recruited poorly to Mizzu either.

College sports IS about talent. There is just no other way to skin that cat. And a way to think about that is that there are limits on practice. There is only so much "teaching" that can go on in basketball. Unlike even football there is not really a secret sauce looking to be created which will be an innovation that creates a sustained advantage.

Now some success comes from external factors. It would be an "interesting" experiment to imagine Coach K and Dean Smith not in the ACC - a league that was well positioned to satisfy ESPN's need for content in the east coast time zone - but whose careers led them to Basketball wildernesses. Clearly great coaches but never doubt they benefitted from the exposure created by the corporate overlords in Bristol. And you need to look no further than the implosion of the Big East and how once mightly programs boolstered by ESPN have receeded.

But regardless of the "why" the What is indisputable. As posted on this site, Cal's best years occured when it had NBA qualified talent. We have NEVER had a squad - at least in the modern era - that was put together in an odd fashion with a bunch of guys whose ceiling was international play. I THINK that is because we play in a league with NBA level talent - which means you can't build a great squad of team guys and then get hot in March (see a LOT of Cinderella stories). This is because over the course of home and homes the good teams get enough tape on you to ring you up for 6 to 8 losses. and then you end up on the bubble and you end up playing the seed of death (the 8/9 game). Even more true in the pod era.

So that is the story. You can respect Mark Fox as a teacher but the talent gap is vast. Until Cal recruits we are what we are. Same story, frankly, as Monty who mailed it in during his time at Cal and lost too many times to more talented if less well coached teams from Oregon and Arizona.

---

Good post. Agreed.

socaltownie said:

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... So that is the story. You can respect Mark Fox as a teacher but the talent gap is vast. Until Cal recruits we are what we are. Same story, frankly, as Monty who mailed it in during his time at Cal and lost too many times to more talented if less well coached teams from Oregon and Arizona.

---

Looking at the records from 2008-09 through 2013-14 I see Montgomery's teams went 11-0 against Oregon and 5-5 against Arizona.

I forgot who besides zona owned Monty. Maybe romats huskies?

CalLifer said:

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calumnus said:

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diva1 said:

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Cuonzo was maybe a worst offensive coach vs Fox
Never has a team did so little with the talent that Cuonzo brought in

---

#53 offense and #19 defense according to Ken Pom.

There are lots of examples of hard nosed defensive minded coaches coming in after a good recruiter and having success getting talented kids from the prior coach to play tough defense. For awhile that initial success is self sustaining, as recruits are attracted to success. Eventually word gets out, players leave and the recruits stop coming. Howland following Lavin at UCLA is a good example.

Cuonzo basically was both coaches at Tennessee and at Cal, but is in the fade out phase at Missouri.

Fox was the hard nosed guy at Nevada following Trent Johnson, great first 3 years, then CBI teams in years 4 and 5. He was then the same at Georgia, having some success initially with the team he inherited, landing a top player (KCP), then sliding into mediocrity until fired. At Cal he played the same role, he got the guys who remained from Wyking's squad to play better defense. However, in the current era, with the Internet and the portal, then his own disastrous first meeting, not enough talent stayed. And while more talented than the current squad, they we're not nearly as talented as previous Cal teams just a few years ears earlier under Cuonzo.

---

calumnus, do you have access to kenpom's data for cal's o & d efficiency rankings over the last 10 years or so? I'm just curious how the efficiency numbers line up with what we think of our previous coaching staffs.

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KenPom goes back to 2001-02

Year Rank Off Def Tempo
Braun
02 #37 #66 #25 #220
03 #47 #45 #63 #208
04 #102 #147 #68 #237
05 #144 #184 #108 #158
06 #47 #49 #68 #293
07 #78 #65 #117 #217
08 #67 #18 #184 #82
Montgomery
09 #30 #11 #96 #140
10 #14 #3 #76 #107
11 #75 #68 #99 #61
12 #29 #43 #38 #135
13 #56 #88 #39 #159
14 #60 #63 #74 #178
Martin
15 #113 #172 #79 #123
16 #28 #53 #19 #162
17 #62 #160 #14 #290
Jones
18 #244 #296 #181 #154
19 #241 #192 #286 #234
Fox
20 #153 #195 #130 #315
21 #114 #119 #115 #322
22 #111 #178 #65 #331

Our best offense was Montgomery's 2nd Year when we were 3rd best in the country. 2nd was his 1st year when we were 11th in the country, 3Rd was Braun's last year when we were 18th.

Our best defense was Martin's 3rd when we were 14th in the country. Our second best was his 2nd when we were 19th in the country. 3rd was in 01-02 under Braun when we were #25 in the country.

Our fastest tempo was under Montgomery, his third year we were #61 in the country. 2nd was Braun's last year when we were #82. The fastest after tgat were all under Montgomery. Our slowest play has been under Fox, #315 in year 1, #322 in year 2 and #331 in year 3.

Thanks, calumnus. There's not a whole lot of great insights there (aside from Monty being a pretty good coach, but even he was starting to come down a bit as 3 of his last 4 teams had overall rankings below 55). Surprised that even in Martin's last year, when everyone here likes to bash him, we still had the #14 overall defense.

CalLifer said:

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Thanks, calumnus. There's not a whole lot of great insights there (aside from Monty being a pretty good coach, but even he was starting to come down a bit as 3 of his last 4 teams had overall rankings below 55). Surprised that even in Martin's last year, when everyone here likes to bash him, we still had the #14 overall defense.

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I don't think anyone ever bashed his defense, at least not me. I hated his offense.