Put my vote in for Dennis Gates. He was a total class act at Cal, an academic all Pac 12 who graduated with a masters degree in four years. Always discussing strategy with the coaches. At Florida State, he was an outstanding recruiter and studied under Leonard Hamilton, one of the most underrated coaches in the country. Then Gates took over a Cleveland State team that had not won more than 11 games its prior two seasons. In two years, Gates had them winning the conference and going to the tournament. They have a good record this year and could win the conference again. Even if Gates did not have a Cal connection, he would be a serious candidate. His understanding of our program seals the deal for me.
Our next coach watch
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Last: 2 yr ago by philbert
You don't need to know how to work a hammer if you're only trying to build a mud hut.82gradDLSdad said:
I think you're right and why I think he should not only be using a search firm but also a choosing and hiring one. Sort of like using an architect and engineering firm but then deciding to build your own house when you don't even know how to work a hammer.
It's fine to use one, but he shouldn't rely solely on the search firm. He should form a council of experts that know the challenges of working at Cal to help him vet the candidates and possibly look at others outside of the firm. I have a hard time believing that Fox was the best available candidate overall. (He was probably a top candidate the search firm had from a very limited search.)GMP said:Golden One said:You can bet the farm that he will again use a search firm.bearup said:How certain are we that JK will again use a "search firm"......or not?socaltownie said:
Just for fun
The Kicker seems to be struggling right now at UCSB. 7-7
Travis is doing "OK" - 4-2 in the big sky, 11.-6 overall
Who else should we put on the list?
And he should. He doesn't know what the heck he's doing.
Fox is not getting fired any time soon.
Go Bears!
But when he is we'll be ready this timeoskidunker said:
Fox is not getting fired any time soon.
This is a bunch of nonsense, in my opinion.
Go Bears!
philbert said:It's fine to use one, but he shouldn't rely solely on the search firm. He should form a council of experts that know the challenges of working at Cal to help him vet the candidates and possibly look at others outside of the firm. I have a hard time believing that Fox was the best available candidate overall. (He was probably a top candidate the search firm had from a very limited search.)GMP said:Golden One said:You can bet the farm that he will again use a search firm.bearup said:How certain are we that JK will again use a "search firm"......or not?socaltownie said:
Just for fun
The Kicker seems to be struggling right now at UCSB. 7-7
Travis is doing "OK" - 4-2 in the big sky, 11.-6 overall
Who else should we put on the list?
And he should. He doesn't know what the heck he's doing.
This exactly. It's one thing to use a search firm. Last time around, the search firm used us.
Yep, there is nothing wrong with using a search firm, if the search firm is used properly.Big C said:philbert said:It's fine to use one, but he shouldn't rely solely on the search firm. He should form a council of experts that know the challenges of working at Cal to help him vet the candidates and possibly look at others outside of the firm. I have a hard time believing that Fox was the best available candidate overall. (He was probably a top candidate the search firm had from a very limited search.)GMP said:Golden One said:You can bet the farm that he will again use a search firm.bearup said:How certain are we that JK will again use a "search firm"......or not?socaltownie said:
Just for fun
The Kicker seems to be struggling right now at UCSB. 7-7
Travis is doing "OK" - 4-2 in the big sky, 11.-6 overall
Who else should we put on the list?
And he should. He doesn't know what the heck he's doing.
This exactly. It's one thing to use a search firm. Last time around, the search firm used us.
Even before engaging the search firm, an AD should have a list of potential candidates, and understand appropriate criteria for candidates. A council of experts can further refine those things, and help vet candidates. The search firm can be great for facilitating communication, for gauging interest on all sides, for deniability on all sides. While the search firm may well dig up potential candidates the AD might not know about otherwise, if the AD is doing his/her job, it is more important that the AD direct the search firm to candidates the AD is interested in than for the search firm to dig up candidates the AD doesn't know about. Both can be important, but if the AD isn't directing the search firm to potential candidates, the AD isn't properly performing the job.
I don't really buy that the problem in the Fox hire was in the use of the search firm. When Knowlton said that the big thing in Fox's favor was that he and Knowlton got along so well, I knew Knowlton had used the wrong criteria. Maybe getting along ok with the AD is a baseline requirement, along with other things like not being an a-hole. But it is WAY more important that the coach and college basketball players and high school recruits have good chemistry than it is that the coach and AD have good chemistry. If Knowlton had gone on and on about how well Fox would relate to the players in the way that a could should relate to players at a place like Cal, I would have felt a lot better about the hire. I really don't care if the coach's relationship to the AD is merely warm and cordial or if they will have a really good time drinking beer together, because that relationship is not what leads to winning basketball.
If you have the wrong hiring criteria, it just doesn't matter whether you use a search firm, you'll end up with the wrong hire.
Exactly!
philbert said:It's fine to use one, but he shouldn't rely solely on the search firm. He should form a council of experts that know the challenges of working at Cal to help him vet the candidates and possibly look at others outside of the firm. I have a hard time believing that Fox was the best available candidate overall. (He was probably a top candidate the search firm had from a very limited search.)GMP said:Golden One said:You can bet the farm that he will again use a search firm.bearup said:How certain are we that JK will again use a "search firm"......or not?socaltownie said:
Just for fun
The Kicker seems to be struggling right now at UCSB. 7-7
Travis is doing "OK" - 4-2 in the big sky, 11.-6 overall
Who else should we put on the list?
And he should. He doesn't know what the heck he's doing.
I don't know why you think it was a "very limited search " I also don't know why you think he relied only on the search firm. Both seem like pure speculation to me.
I think your speculation ignores a lot of realities - hiring a coach is a two-way street. We had limited funds to pay, a bad roster, and lots of other issues attracting a coach. We had a decent 20 year run, but otherwise not a great history. That is all to say: I think we likely had a small number of coaches who wanted the job.
I agree with the rest of what you said. We shouldn't rely only solely on the search firm. The search firm should do a much better job than our AD of identifying candidates we can hire. And then he needs to make the right choice. I don't think he has any idea what he's doing, so I also agree he should bring in a person or persons who do to help him. Hopefully we have a little more cash to throw at someone good this time. If we get another boring retread, I will be very disappointed.
The search lasted less than five days. That doesn't sound like a very thorough search. I have heard that when Decuire interviewed, he felt he was only given a courtesy interview and it wasn't too detailed (like the decision was already made).
Anyway, this was Wilner's writeup of the Fox hiring.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/03/29/cal-hires-mark-fox-well-that-was-fast-perhaps-a-little-too-fast/
Anyway, this was Wilner's writeup of the Fox hiring.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/03/29/cal-hires-mark-fox-well-that-was-fast-perhaps-a-little-too-fast/
Wilner's analysis has a flawed assumption: that no efforts were made to vet candidates before that first announcement Jones would return.
Wilner doesn't know that, nor does he claim to.
Quote:
It's not like Knowlton had the framework for a change in place … like he had been thoroughly scouting options for the final month of the season … because until late last week, he planned to bring Jones back.
Wilner doesn't know that, nor does he claim to.
Well, if you recall, there was a bit of a roller coaster where Wyking was said to be coming back and then suddenly got fired. From this calgoldenblogs story, the timeline is as follows:GMP said:
Wilner's analysis has a flawed assumption: that no efforts were made to vet candidates before that first announcement Jones would return.Quote:
It's not like Knowlton had the framework for a change in place … like he had been thoroughly scouting options for the final month of the season … because until late last week, he planned to bring Jones back.
Wilner doesn't know that, nor does he claim to.
March 22nd: (False?) News leaks that Cal is retaining Wyking Jones
March 24th: Cal announces firing of Wyking Jones
March 27th: News breaks that Cal has hired a search firm
March 29th: Cal announces hiring of Mark Fox
I understand that the 3/22 date was from a Jeff Goodman tweet (who had talked to an assistant coach that said Knowlton told Wyking he was coming back). At some point between 3/22 and 3/24, Knowlton changed his mind. So at best, Knowlton had two additional days to do the search.
That still doesn't seem to be very much extra time to do a thorough search.
https://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2019/4/1/18287048/california-golden-bears-men-basketball-wyking-jones-mark-fox-march-madness-georgia-nevada
philbert said:Well, if you recall, there was a bit of a roller coaster where Wyking was said to be coming back and then suddenly got fired. From this calgoldenblogs story, the timeline is as follows:GMP said:
Wilner's analysis has a flawed assumption: that no efforts were made to vet candidates before that first announcement Jones would return.Quote:
It's not like Knowlton had the framework for a change in place … like he had been thoroughly scouting options for the final month of the season … because until late last week, he planned to bring Jones back.
Wilner doesn't know that, nor does he claim to.
March 22nd: (False?) News leaks that Cal is retaining Wyking Jones
March 24th: Cal announces firing of Wyking Jones
March 27th: News breaks that Cal has hired a search firm
March 29th: Cal announces hiring of Mark Fox
I understand that the 3/22 date was from a Jeff Goodman tweet (who had talked to an assistant coach that said Knowlton told Wyking he was coming back). At some point between 3/22 and 3/24, Knowlton changed his mind. So at best, Knowlton had two additional days to do the search.
That still doesn't seem to be very much extra time to do a thorough search.
https://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2019/4/1/18287048/california-golden-bears-men-basketball-wyking-jones-mark-fox-march-madness-georgia-nevada
I disagree. Why couldn't Knowlton have engaged the search firm to vet candidates for any length of time before 3/22? I have no inside info. I am suggesting it's a possibility - Knowlton engages a search firm a month before the season ends, to steal Wilner's example. He gets the candidates they recommend. Maybe he even does some interviews. He doesn't love the options enough to fire and pay Jones. So he decides Jones will stay. Then he changes his mind, fires him and a week later hires Fox.
That is not my understanding of how it went down. Sounded like Knowlton was firm about bringing Wyking back, but backtracked once news leaked on 3/22. I know some people have speculated it was due to a threatened donor revolt, but who knows?
I agree with your thoughts on Pasternack. Way to much emotion emitted here on a reflix kick that was a mistake and certainly not intentionally done (I asked him about it and believed his response). What he has done at UCSB is really remarkable - going into this season - (taking over a downtrodden program that needed a complete overhaul) has produced 4 straight 21+ wins/season, has developed 3 players to an NBA roster, qualified for NCAA post season MM, is a recruiting machine with Excellent ties/friendship to both Prolithic Prep and Oakland Soldier key leadership personell, personally raised $10M to renovate the arena and locker room at UCSB, knows and loves Cal - would be extremely loyal as its his "dream job", and understands the Cal culture/admissions policies and how to sell Cal. And finally and very important, has the ear of several deep pocketed backers who would step up significant donations toward needed areas for the program. This discussion however is moot as Fox would get next season even if the team finishes 11th in conf this season and bows out the first game of the post season conf tournament.BeachedBear said:
I would put Golden at the top of my list. Taking a leap of faith on a young up and comer seems like a good strategy for Cal these days.
Legans and Gates seem to fit that bill as well, but Travis may be showing his ceiling at Montana. If he were killing it there, I'd be more enthusiastic (but so would every other team).
As for the Kicker, I spent a lot of time with him, when I was coaching youth bball and he was on Braun's staff. I know he can coach and recruit. Other than his taint from UA (two issues), he seems ideal, but his sights may be higher than Cal - just sayin'
Two things I recall from the Fox hire that I don't see referenced in either the Wilner or the CGB articles:
1. Knowlton, after the hire, was quoted (in some article) as saying something very close to, "The search firm made my job easy. They provided a vetted short list and then all I needed to do was interview those guys and make my pick." My reading of that was that he had begun the employ of that search firm somewhat prior to his keep-Wyking/don't-keep-Wyking ditherings.
2. After Knowlton's later-aborted decision to keep Wyking, it was reported here (EricBear?) that what changed his mind was that a small group of players and their parents came in after the fact and expressed their displeasure in Jones. Kelly-and-family were rumored to be among that group.
1. Knowlton, after the hire, was quoted (in some article) as saying something very close to, "The search firm made my job easy. They provided a vetted short list and then all I needed to do was interview those guys and make my pick." My reading of that was that he had begun the employ of that search firm somewhat prior to his keep-Wyking/don't-keep-Wyking ditherings.
2. After Knowlton's later-aborted decision to keep Wyking, it was reported here (EricBear?) that what changed his mind was that a small group of players and their parents came in after the fact and expressed their displeasure in Jones. Kelly-and-family were rumored to be among that group.
4thGenCal said:I agree with your thoughts on Pasternack. Way to much emotion emitted here on a reflix kick that was a mistake and certainly not intentionally done (I asked him about it and believed his response). What he has done at UCSB is really remarkable - going into this season - (taking over a downtrodden program that needed a complete overhaul) has produced 4 straight 21+ wins/season, has developed 3 players to an NBA roster, qualified for NCAA post season MM, is a recruiting machine with Excellent ties/friendship to both Prolithic Prep and Oakland Soldier key leadership personell, personally raised $10M to renovate the arena and locker room at UCSB, knows and loves Cal - would be extremely loyal as its his "dream job", and understands the Cal culture/admissions policies and how to sell Cal. And finally and very important, has the ear of several deep pocketed backers who would step up significant donations toward needed areas for the program. This discussion however is moot as Fox would get next season even if the team finishes 11th in conf this season and bows out the first game of the post season conf tournament.BeachedBear said:
I would put Golden at the top of my list. Taking a leap of faith on a young up and comer seems like a good strategy for Cal these days.
Legans and Gates seem to fit that bill as well, but Travis may be showing his ceiling at Montana. If he were killing it there, I'd be more enthusiastic (but so would every other team).
As for the Kicker, I spent a lot of time with him, when I was coaching youth bball and he was on Braun's staff. I know he can coach and recruit. Other than his taint from UA (two issues), he seems ideal, but his sights may be higher than Cal - just sayin'
That last part is the key piece of insider info: For better or worse, this isn't a two-month thread, it's a fourteen-month thread.
4thGenCal said:I agree with your thoughts on Pasternack. Way to much emotion emitted here on a reflix kick that was a mistake and certainly not intentionally done (I asked him about it and believed his response). What he has done at UCSB is really remarkable - going into this season - (taking over a downtrodden program that needed a complete overhaul) has produced 4 straight 21+ wins/season, has developed 3 players to an NBA roster, qualified for NCAA post season MM, is a recruiting machine with Excellent ties/friendship to both Prolithic Prep and Oakland Soldier key leadership personell, personally raised $10M to renovate the arena and locker room at UCSB, knows and loves Cal - would be extremely loyal as its his "dream job", and understands the Cal culture/admissions policies and how to sell Cal. And finally and very important, has the ear of several deep pocketed backers who would step up significant donations toward needed areas for the program. This discussion however is moot as Fox would get next season even if the team finishes 11th in conf this season and bows out the first game of the post season conf tournament.BeachedBear said:
I would put Golden at the top of my list. Taking a leap of faith on a young up and comer seems like a good strategy for Cal these days.
Legans and Gates seem to fit that bill as well, but Travis may be showing his ceiling at Montana. If he were killing it there, I'd be more enthusiastic (but so would every other team).
As for the Kicker, I spent a lot of time with him, when I was coaching youth bball and he was on Braun's staff. I know he can coach and recruit. Other than his taint from UA (two issues), he seems ideal, but his sights may be higher than Cal - just sayin'
We've all seen his face in that video. The kick was intentional. You can see the emotion on his face. The fact that he won't own up to it is worse than the kick, for me.
We're all spit-balling but this scenario seems unlikely for the following reason: coaching fraternities have a reputation for being pretty tight-knit groups. I don't see how a search firm could have determined which candidates were interested in the job before Jones was fired without risking word getting back to him.GMP said:philbert said:Well, if you recall, there was a bit of a roller coaster where Wyking was said to be coming back and then suddenly got fired. From this calgoldenblogs story, the timeline is as follows:GMP said:
Wilner's analysis has a flawed assumption: that no efforts were made to vet candidates before that first announcement Jones would return.Quote:
It's not like Knowlton had the framework for a change in place … like he had been thoroughly scouting options for the final month of the season … because until late last week, he planned to bring Jones back.
Wilner doesn't know that, nor does he claim to.
March 22nd: (False?) News leaks that Cal is retaining Wyking Jones
March 24th: Cal announces firing of Wyking Jones
March 27th: News breaks that Cal has hired a search firm
March 29th: Cal announces hiring of Mark Fox
I understand that the 3/22 date was from a Jeff Goodman tweet (who had talked to an assistant coach that said Knowlton told Wyking he was coming back). At some point between 3/22 and 3/24, Knowlton changed his mind. So at best, Knowlton had two additional days to do the search.
That still doesn't seem to be very much extra time to do a thorough search.
https://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2019/4/1/18287048/california-golden-bears-men-basketball-wyking-jones-mark-fox-march-madness-georgia-nevada
I disagree. Why couldn't Knowlton have engaged the search firm to vet candidates for any length of time before 3/22? I have no inside info. I am suggesting it's a possibility - Knowlton engages a search firm a month before the season ends, to steal Wilner's example. He gets the candidates they recommend. Maybe he even does some interviews. He doesn't love the options enough to fire and pay Jones. So he decides Jones will stay. Then he changes his mind, fires him and a week later hires Fox.
I've concluded that Knowlton had one major criterion: since he already had a full plate of financial and administrative issues, he wanted somebody with major college experience and connections so that he (Knowlton) didn't have to get involved at all after the hire.
I think the AD had several criteria of different weights:
A. had to fit the budget
B. had to be from a P6 conference (or high mid-major)
C. had to have HC experience
D. had to have a good academic record and clean background
E. had to have shown success
F. had to be someone he could work with
A. He probably was given a budget and went with it thinking it was out of his control (maybe it was, maybe it wasn't if he found a great candidate)
C. Was a major criticism of the WK hire, so this was an essential criteria
D. Cal was not going to hire Pearl
E. Most experienced coaches have shown some success to point to, otherwise they would not be a P6 coach in the first place, and given A we were not going to hire, or even be considered by a top coach
F. most people factor this into their hires
The problem with the above, is it was missing several key criteria including:
1. Track record of recruiting
2. Basketball strategy that would be successful for Cal
3. A coach for this generation of players for the new world college basketball
A. had to fit the budget
B. had to be from a P6 conference (or high mid-major)
C. had to have HC experience
D. had to have a good academic record and clean background
E. had to have shown success
F. had to be someone he could work with
A. He probably was given a budget and went with it thinking it was out of his control (maybe it was, maybe it wasn't if he found a great candidate)
C. Was a major criticism of the WK hire, so this was an essential criteria
D. Cal was not going to hire Pearl
E. Most experienced coaches have shown some success to point to, otherwise they would not be a P6 coach in the first place, and given A we were not going to hire, or even be considered by a top coach
F. most people factor this into their hires
The problem with the above, is it was missing several key criteria including:
1. Track record of recruiting
2. Basketball strategy that would be successful for Cal
3. A coach for this generation of players for the new world college basketball
I think we basically agree. Your list is more granular than my single criterion and therefore more useful. But my point was that Knowlton's overarching objective was/is a basketball program he didn't have to worry about (which A-F support) rather than a great (or even very good) one. For a great program, A-F are mostly necessary but certainly not sufficient and your additional three criteria (at least) should have been included. So, we got who we got and while I'll watch games on TV, it's not worth the 200 mile roundtrip for me to attend many (if any) games.HoopDreams said:
I think the AD had several criteria of different weights:
A. had to fit the budget
B. had to be from a P6 conference (or high mid-major)
C. had to have HC experience
D. had to have a good academic record and clean background
E. had to have shown success
F. had to be someone he could work with
A. He probably was given a budget and went with it thinking it was out of his control (maybe it was, maybe it wasn't if he found a great candidate)
C. Was a major criticism of the WK hire, so this was an essential criteria
D. Cal was not going to hire Pearl
E. Most experienced coaches have shown some success to point to, otherwise they would not be a P6 coach in the first place, and given A we were not going to hire, or even be considered by a top coach
F. most people factor this into their hires
The problem with the above, is it was missing several key criteria including:
1. Track record of recruiting
2. Basketball strategy that would be successful for Cal
3. A coach for this generation of players for the new world college basketball
I'd take The Kicker in a heartbeat if he could get us back to the tourney on a regular basis. But then again, preferring we remain BDW's out of spite ain't my bag. If Giants fans can welcome Oral Hershiser, Cal fans should be able to forgive a 10yo indiscretion from a guy related to Roxy Bernstein.4thGenCal said:I agree with your thoughts on Pasternack. Way to much emotion emitted here on a reflix kick that was a mistake and certainly not intentionally done (I asked him about it and believed his response). What he has done at UCSB is really remarkable - going into this season - (taking over a downtrodden program that needed a complete overhaul) has produced 4 straight 21+ wins/season, has developed 3 players to an NBA roster, qualified for NCAA post season MM, is a recruiting machine with Excellent ties/friendship to both Prolithic Prep and Oakland Soldier key leadership personell, personally raised $10M to renovate the arena and locker room at UCSB, knows and loves Cal - would be extremely loyal as its his "dream job", and understands the Cal culture/admissions policies and how to sell Cal. And finally and very important, has the ear of several deep pocketed backers who would step up significant donations toward needed areas for the program. This discussion however is moot as Fox would get next season even if the team finishes 11th in conf this season and bows out the first game of the post season conf tournament.BeachedBear said:
I would put Golden at the top of my list. Taking a leap of faith on a young up and comer seems like a good strategy for Cal these days.
Legans and Gates seem to fit that bill as well, but Travis may be showing his ceiling at Montana. If he were killing it there, I'd be more enthusiastic (but so would every other team).
As for the Kicker, I spent a lot of time with him, when I was coaching youth bball and he was on Braun's staff. I know he can coach and recruit. Other than his taint from UA (two issues), he seems ideal, but his sights may be higher than Cal - just sayin'
Given that so many folks on the FB side would welcome back To$h in a heartbeat, the Kicker's transgression doesn't seem that bad. And if he has the support to get the practice facility built, I say bring him on ASAP.Civil Bear said:I'd take The Kicker in a heartbeat if he could get us back to the tourney on a regular basis. But then again, preferring we remain BDW's out of spite ain't my bag. If Giants fans can welcome Oral Hershiser, Cal fans should be able to forgive a 10yo indiscretion from a guy related to Roxy Bernstein.4thGenCal said:I agree with your thoughts on Pasternack. Way to much emotion emitted here on a reflix kick that was a mistake and certainly not intentionally done (I asked him about it and believed his response). What he has done at UCSB is really remarkable - going into this season - (taking over a downtrodden program that needed a complete overhaul) has produced 4 straight 21+ wins/season, has developed 3 players to an NBA roster, qualified for NCAA post season MM, is a recruiting machine with Excellent ties/friendship to both Prolithic Prep and Oakland Soldier key leadership personell, personally raised $10M to renovate the arena and locker room at UCSB, knows and loves Cal - would be extremely loyal as its his "dream job", and understands the Cal culture/admissions policies and how to sell Cal. And finally and very important, has the ear of several deep pocketed backers who would step up significant donations toward needed areas for the program. This discussion however is moot as Fox would get next season even if the team finishes 11th in conf this season and bows out the first game of the post season conf tournament.BeachedBear said:
I would put Golden at the top of my list. Taking a leap of faith on a young up and comer seems like a good strategy for Cal these days.
Legans and Gates seem to fit that bill as well, but Travis may be showing his ceiling at Montana. If he were killing it there, I'd be more enthusiastic (but so would every other team).
As for the Kicker, I spent a lot of time with him, when I was coaching youth bball and he was on Braun's staff. I know he can coach and recruit. Other than his taint from UA (two issues), he seems ideal, but his sights may be higher than Cal - just sayin'
Civil Bear said:I'd take The Kicker in a heartbeat if he could get us back to the tourney on a regular basis. But then again, preferring we remain BDW's out of spite ain't my bag. If Giants fans can welcome Oral Hershiser, Cal fans should be able to forgive a 10yo indiscretion from a guy related to Roxy Bernstein.4thGenCal said:I agree with your thoughts on Pasternack. Way to much emotion emitted here on a reflix kick that was a mistake and certainly not intentionally done (I asked him about it and believed his response). What he has done at UCSB is really remarkable - going into this season - (taking over a downtrodden program that needed a complete overhaul) has produced 4 straight 21+ wins/season, has developed 3 players to an NBA roster, qualified for NCAA post season MM, is a recruiting machine with Excellent ties/friendship to both Prolithic Prep and Oakland Soldier key leadership personell, personally raised $10M to renovate the arena and locker room at UCSB, knows and loves Cal - would be extremely loyal as its his "dream job", and understands the Cal culture/admissions policies and how to sell Cal. And finally and very important, has the ear of several deep pocketed backers who would step up significant donations toward needed areas for the program. This discussion however is moot as Fox would get next season even if the team finishes 11th in conf this season and bows out the first game of the post season conf tournament.BeachedBear said:
I would put Golden at the top of my list. Taking a leap of faith on a young up and comer seems like a good strategy for Cal these days.
Legans and Gates seem to fit that bill as well, but Travis may be showing his ceiling at Montana. If he were killing it there, I'd be more enthusiastic (but so would every other team).
As for the Kicker, I spent a lot of time with him, when I was coaching youth bball and he was on Braun's staff. I know he can coach and recruit. Other than his taint from UA (two issues), he seems ideal, but his sights may be higher than Cal - just sayin'
I would be fine with it if in his introductory press conference he made some amends - even a self deprecating joke would be fine. To lie and say it wasn't intentional is not a coach I could support.
Agree - it was a transgression and simply wrong, but it was a bad reflex (heck when I watch a scary movie, I often involuntarily kick out my left leg in a reflex to a surprising situationphilbert said:Given that so many folks on the FB side would welcome back To$h in a heartbeat, the Kicker's transgression doesn't seem that bad. And if he has the support to get the practice facility built, I say bring him on ASAP.Civil Bear said:I'd take The Kicker in a heartbeat if he could get us back to the tourney on a regular basis. But then again, preferring we remain BDW's out of spite ain't my bag. If Giants fans can welcome Oral Hershiser, Cal fans should be able to forgive a 10yo indiscretion from a guy related to Roxy Bernstein.4thGenCal said:I agree with your thoughts on Pasternack. Way to much emotion emitted here on a reflix kick that was a mistake and certainly not intentionally done (I asked him about it and believed his response). What he has done at UCSB is really remarkable - going into this season - (taking over a downtrodden program that needed a complete overhaul) has produced 4 straight 21+ wins/season, has developed 3 players to an NBA roster, qualified for NCAA post season MM, is a recruiting machine with Excellent ties/friendship to both Prolithic Prep and Oakland Soldier key leadership personell, personally raised $10M to renovate the arena and locker room at UCSB, knows and loves Cal - would be extremely loyal as its his "dream job", and understands the Cal culture/admissions policies and how to sell Cal. And finally and very important, has the ear of several deep pocketed backers who would step up significant donations toward needed areas for the program. This discussion however is moot as Fox would get next season even if the team finishes 11th in conf this season and bows out the first game of the post season conf tournament.BeachedBear said:
I would put Golden at the top of my list. Taking a leap of faith on a young up and comer seems like a good strategy for Cal these days.
Legans and Gates seem to fit that bill as well, but Travis may be showing his ceiling at Montana. If he were killing it there, I'd be more enthusiastic (but so would every other team).
As for the Kicker, I spent a lot of time with him, when I was coaching youth bball and he was on Braun's staff. I know he can coach and recruit. Other than his taint from UA (two issues), he seems ideal, but his sights may be higher than Cal - just sayin'
). You hit the mark spot on, his trusting relationships with key wealthy people would bring in far more money than is contemplated - the practice facility for one would be funded much quicker alone. The other area is several past players (Theo, Leon, Sean, etc )really respect him and could help the program as well. Bottom line he recruits very well and would take back control of the 2 key local programs that Cal has to win (Prolithic Preop and Oakland Soldiers. 
GMP said:Civil Bear said:I'd take The Kicker in a heartbeat if he could get us back to the tourney on a regular basis. But then again, preferring we remain BDW's out of spite ain't my bag. If Giants fans can welcome Oral Hershiser, Cal fans should be able to forgive a 10yo indiscretion from a guy related to Roxy Bernstein.4thGenCal said:I agree with your thoughts on Pasternack. Way to much emotion emitted here on a reflix kick that was a mistake and certainly not intentionally done (I asked him about it and believed his response). What he has done at UCSB is really remarkable - going into this season - (taking over a downtrodden program that needed a complete overhaul) has produced 4 straight 21+ wins/season, has developed 3 players to an NBA roster, qualified for NCAA post season MM, is a recruiting machine with Excellent ties/friendship to both Prolithic Prep and Oakland Soldier key leadership personell, personally raised $10M to renovate the arena and locker room at UCSB, knows and loves Cal - would be extremely loyal as its his "dream job", and understands the Cal culture/admissions policies and how to sell Cal. And finally and very important, has the ear of several deep pocketed backers who would step up significant donations toward needed areas for the program. This discussion however is moot as Fox would get next season even if the team finishes 11th in conf this season and bows out the first game of the post season conf tournament.BeachedBear said:
I would put Golden at the top of my list. Taking a leap of faith on a young up and comer seems like a good strategy for Cal these days.
Legans and Gates seem to fit that bill as well, but Travis may be showing his ceiling at Montana. If he were killing it there, I'd be more enthusiastic (but so would every other team).
As for the Kicker, I spent a lot of time with him, when I was coaching youth bball and he was on Braun's staff. I know he can coach and recruit. Other than his taint from UA (two issues), he seems ideal, but his sights may be higher than Cal - just sayin'
I would be fine with it if in his introductory press conference he made some amends - even a self deprecating joke would be fine. To lie and say it wasn't intentional is not a coach I could support.
Get over it. It would be absolutely silly for him to mention some minor thing from the past in his introductory press conference. Many of us don't even remember the kick that you cling to so dearly.
It is so typiCAL for the program to have gone out and hired such an unremarkable coach as Coach Fox when someone like Pasternack was available.
I bet if someone was to ask Jorge today he probably wouldn't even remember or give a ****
I actually think Jorge is the type of competitor that 100% remembers it. Whether he will publically admit to giving a **** about it is different. And whether it should matter if we want to hire Pasternack is different as well.PtownBear1 said:
I bet if someone was to ask Jorge today he probably wouldn't even remember or give a ****
Chapman_is_Gone said:GMP said:Civil Bear said:I'd take The Kicker in a heartbeat if he could get us back to the tourney on a regular basis. But then again, preferring we remain BDW's out of spite ain't my bag. If Giants fans can welcome Oral Hershiser, Cal fans should be able to forgive a 10yo indiscretion from a guy related to Roxy Bernstein.4thGenCal said:I agree with your thoughts on Pasternack. Way to much emotion emitted here on a reflix kick that was a mistake and certainly not intentionally done (I asked him about it and believed his response). What he has done at UCSB is really remarkable - going into this season - (taking over a downtrodden program that needed a complete overhaul) has produced 4 straight 21+ wins/season, has developed 3 players to an NBA roster, qualified for NCAA post season MM, is a recruiting machine with Excellent ties/friendship to both Prolithic Prep and Oakland Soldier key leadership personell, personally raised $10M to renovate the arena and locker room at UCSB, knows and loves Cal - would be extremely loyal as its his "dream job", and understands the Cal culture/admissions policies and how to sell Cal. And finally and very important, has the ear of several deep pocketed backers who would step up significant donations toward needed areas for the program. This discussion however is moot as Fox would get next season even if the team finishes 11th in conf this season and bows out the first game of the post season conf tournament.BeachedBear said:
I would put Golden at the top of my list. Taking a leap of faith on a young up and comer seems like a good strategy for Cal these days.
Legans and Gates seem to fit that bill as well, but Travis may be showing his ceiling at Montana. If he were killing it there, I'd be more enthusiastic (but so would every other team).
As for the Kicker, I spent a lot of time with him, when I was coaching youth bball and he was on Braun's staff. I know he can coach and recruit. Other than his taint from UA (two issues), he seems ideal, but his sights may be higher than Cal - just sayin'
I would be fine with it if in his introductory press conference he made some amends - even a self deprecating joke would be fine. To lie and say it wasn't intentional is not a coach I could support.
Get over it. It would be absolutely silly for him to mention some minor thing from the past in his introductory press conference. Many of us don't even remember the kick that you cling to so dearly.
It is so typiCAL for the program to have gone out and hired such an unremarkable coach as Coach Fox when someone like Pasternack was available.
Did you read what I said? My issue is with him lying about it. I don't want a liar who can't own up to his mistakes as our coach.
The Kicker also tried to punch Jorge, but his right cross was off target
When you look at his face, it is quite different than those around him, including the head coach who tried to help him up which is what anyone should do in that situation
The fact that he had an opportunity to own up to it and apologize, but didn't just showed his character. He was also mixed up in the AZ recruiting violations.
I'd prefer Gates, Decuire or a number of other coaches over him
When you look at his face, it is quite different than those around him, including the head coach who tried to help him up which is what anyone should do in that situation
The fact that he had an opportunity to own up to it and apologize, but didn't just showed his character. He was also mixed up in the AZ recruiting violations.
I'd prefer Gates, Decuire or a number of other coaches over him
that was a right cross?
82gradDLSdad said:GMP said:Golden One said:You can bet the farm that he will again use a search firm.bearup said:How certain are we that JK will again use a "search firm"......or not?socaltownie said:
Just for fun
The Kicker seems to be struggling right now at UCSB. 7-7
Travis is doing "OK" - 4-2 in the big sky, 11.-6 overall
Who else should we put on the list?
And he should. He doesn't know what the heck he's doing.
I think you're right and why I think he should not only be using a search firm but also a choosing and hiring one. Sort of like using an architect and engineering firm but then deciding to build your own house when you don't even know how to work a hammer.
He needs a consultant to hire and manage the consultants.
HoopDreams said:
The Kicker also tried to punch Jorge, but his right cross was off target
When you look at his face, it is quite different than those around him, including the head coach who tried to help him up which is what anyone should do in that situation
The fact that he had an opportunity to own up to it and apologize, but didn't just showed his character. He was also mixed up in the AZ recruiting violations.
I'd prefer Gates, Decuire or a number of other coaches over him
oh geez, now he's the "kickboxer"
craziness
perhaps if Cal hires The Kickboxer, the first thing he can do as new coach is hang Jorge's jersey from the Haas rafters (and apologize to Jorge and invite him to the ceremony)Big C said:HoopDreams said:
The Kicker also tried to punch Jorge, but his right cross was off target
When you look at his face, it is quite different than those around him, including the head coach who tried to help him up which is what anyone should do in that situation
The fact that he had an opportunity to own up to it and apologize, but didn't just showed his character. He was also mixed up in the AZ recruiting violations.
I'd prefer Gates, Decuire or a number of other coaches over him
oh geez, now he's the "kickboxer"
craziness
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