The post-Kelly era, and living with Lars

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HoopDreams
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12:20p, 2/12/22
I've been perhaps the biggest supporter of Lars since his freshman year, and I think people are starting to see the improvement and impact he's making this season

However I've been surprised at his playing since Kelly has been out. He certainly isn't Kelly (no one can replace his offense, defense, rebounding and overall impact )

This from calbears:

With Kelly out, junior center Lars Thiemann has stepped into a starting role for the Bears. In four starts, Thiemann is averaging 7.5 points per game while shooting 55.5% from the floor. He scored 11 against Stanford on Feb. 1 and recently totaled eight points, six rebounds, three blocks and two steals in 34 minutes played against WSU

Now I still think it's about matchups and don't expect today to go well

Kudos to Lars to keep on grinding and improving every year
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Mikeman
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1:59p, 2/12/22
I thought he had potential...perhaps like Marks, redshirting a year...but was disappointed with his development....but glad he is playing better
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drizzlybear
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6:26p, 2/12/22
I, too, saw potential in him, but very raw and would take a couple/few years to be reliably productive for sustained minutes (which is true for much of this roster). I've said a number of times that I thought this roster (plus Bradley) could look like a version of the '96/'97 team, and a key part of that comparison was a large and solid front line (I envisioned Thorpe also giving some productive minutes, in addition to Kelly, Lars, GA, and KK, all 6'9" or taller). And Lars was part of what I saw of that.

I've never been down on Lars, and have enjoyed his progression so far, and expect to see accelerated progression over the next two seasons, especially next season.

Also, I haven't yet given up on the possibility that we aren't yet in the post-Kelly era (at least for next season).
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Big C
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7:08p, 2/12/22

If a big guy is willing to work hard, it's not uncommon at all for him to improve a lot as he goes from age 18 into his early-mid 20s. Lars didn't help us much as a freshman (and that is probably a euphemism) and a lot of people wrote him off. Last year, it was like, "I think he might be getting better, but it's hard to tell". This year, definitely better, but he still fumbles away the ball too much and he needs to refine and add to his game, but at least he's an asset in there, a fair amount of the time.

Looking forward to more better!
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59bear
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In reply to HoopDreams • 8:05a, 2/13/22
HoopDreams said:
I've been perhaps the biggest supporter of Lars since his freshman year, and I think people are starting to see the improvement and impact he's making this season

However I've been surprised at his playing since Kelly has been out. He certainly isn't Kelly (no one can replace his offense, defense, rebounding and overall impact )

This from calbears:

With Kelly out, junior center Lars Thiemann has stepped into a starting role for the Bears. In four starts, Thiemann is averaging 7.5 points per game while shooting 55.5% from the floor. He scored 11 against Stanford on Feb. 1 and recently totaled eight points, six rebounds, three blocks and two steals in 34 minutes played against WSU

Now I still think it's about matchups and don't expect today to go well

Kudos to Lars to keep on grinding and improving every year
A 7 footer with any kind of shooting touch has to be intriguing. Early on, it was obvious Lars had trouble handling passes, was slow off his feet to shoot/rebound and generally looked like he was trying to read the manual and perform simultaneously. There has been improvement but he is a long way from being a finished product and the asset many of us hoped he might become. Gotta applaud the effort he's obviously pit in to get to where is now though.
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RedlessWardrobe
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8:10a, 2/13/22
Just watching Lars yesterday, it's obvious that now his comfort with the game is like night and day from his freshman season. He will never be a star, but at this point he has learned to implement his strenghts into his game while working around his weaknesses.

His progress over the last 3 years has been great to watch.
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RJABear
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10:03a, 2/13/22
He is a good all around athlete. He has a great build for a 6-8 forward. For a seven footer, he has a very strong build.

Lars has shown much more comfort with game speed this year. Clearly been working on big-man footwork. Another year of dedicated practice grinding and Lars will be a good center.
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OdontoBear66
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12:35p, 2/13/22
I have to admit I was very down on Lars as a freshman and have been more than surprised at the steps he has taken to improve. What concerned me was his slow reaction time (twitch factor), and was thinking that will not get enough better for him to be a factor. Well, I was wrong, and he has taken nice strides forward. He is to be complimented.

Also, can anyone update the situation with Thorpe. I recall he has had injuries in both years, or was/is it one injury that is not improving. I worry about next year when we lose a lot of grads and have to back fill. But with some of the wings we have it would be nice to have a Lars/Thorpe body presence inside.
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drizzlybear
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In reply to OdontoBear66 • 1:32p, 2/13/22
OdontoBear66 said:
I have to admit I was very down on Lars as a freshman and have been more than surprised at the steps he has taken to improve. What concerned me was his slow reaction time (twitch factor), and was thinking that will not get enough better for him to be a factor. Well, I was wrong, and he has taken nice strides forward. He is to be complimented.

Also, can anyone update the situation with Thorpe. I recall he has had injuries in both years, or was/is it one injury that is not improving. I worry about next year when we lose a lot of grads and have to back fill. But with some of the wings we have it would be nice to have a Lars/Thorpe body presence inside.

You are to be complimented. Rare for someone to acknowledge being wrong on the internet. Kudos to you.
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Big C
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In reply to OdontoBear66 • 1:47p, 2/13/22
OdontoBear66 said:
I have to admit I was very down on Lars as a freshman and have been more than surprised at the steps he has taken to improve. What concerned me was his slow reaction time (twitch factor), and was thinking that will not get enough better for him to be a factor. Well, I was wrong, and he has taken nice strides forward. He is to be complimented.

Also, can anyone update the situation with Thorpe. I recall he has had injuries in both years, or was/is it one injury that is not improving. I worry about next year when we lose a lot of grads and have to back fill. But with some of the wings we have it would be nice to have a Lars/Thorpe body presence inside.

Thorpe and Bowser are both "mystery men" right now. They are at the home games, on the bench in sweats and standing behind the basket during warm-ups. Thorpe reportedly was in extended concussion protocol at the beginning of the season. Not sure about Bowser. I believe that I have read here that the two of them and the staff might be mutually deciding that they redshirt this season.
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SFCityBear
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2:47p, 2/13/22
I think that Lars is on a trajectory which is often common with relatively unskilled big men who have good coaching, which is that they take about two years before we see tangible results taking place. They sometimes progress steadily, but more often they will have a breakout year, a big jump, and it usually occurs in their last year. Bigs are usually slow to develop, both in physical maturity, but also in becoming basketball players, compared to most smaller players.

Darrall Imhoff was a fairly strong and athletic player totally lacking in skill and experience, who mostly sat for two years, when he suddenly just became ready to take Cal to the next level. He just blossomed into the complete player, from sitting at the end of the bench, as guys like Don McIntosh (6-6) and Duane Asplund (6-7) were manning the center position for two runs to the Elite 8. He learned to rebound, to play defense, to score, and to pass. He led Cal to the '59 title, and in 1960, he improved even further and was named consensus 1st team All American.

Richard Solomon is another big who comes to mind. He arrived as a very athletic player, who had few skills, and it took him into his 3rd season before he made enough improvement to be able to play one position and play it pretty well. He made an even bigger leap in his 4th year, as he improved in all areas, and was in my opinion the best center in the PAC10, leading the league in rebounding, and playing a credible defense and scored more as well.

Robert Thurman was more similar to Lars in that he was not really athletic or particularly skilled when he arrived at Cal. In his 3rd year of college, he improved enough to get meaningful minutes, and in his 4th season, he too, had a breakout of sorts, in that he improved a lot in defense and rebounding, and became able to do a few things offensively, and be depended on to play meaningful minutes.

I expect Lars to improve further. This period where he must play well, and keep out of foul trouble, because there is no one to take over and play as well as he is capable of, if he fouls out should do wonders for his maturity and confidence, if he can pull it off. If he does, I would expect further improvement for him next season, maybe even a breakout year.
SFCityBear
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HearstMining
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In reply to SFCityBear • 3:40p, 2/13/22
SFCityBear said:
I think that Lars is on a trajectory which is often common with relatively unskilled big men who have good coaching, which is that they take about two years before we see tangible results taking place. They sometimes progress steadily, but more often they will have a breakout year, a big jump, and it usually occurs in their last year. Bigs are usually slow to develop, both in physical maturity, but also in becoming basketball players, compared to most smaller players.

Darrall Imhoff was a fairly strong and athletic player totally lacking in skill and experience, who mostly sat for two years, when he suddenly just became ready to take Cal to the next level. He just blossomed into the complete player, from sitting at the end of the bench, as guys like Don McIntosh (6-6) and Duane Asplund (6-7) were manning the center position for two runs to the Elite 8. He learned to rebound, to play defense, to score, and to pass. He led Cal to the '59 title, and in 1960, he improved even further and was named consensus 1st team All American.

Richard Solomon is another big who comes to mind. He arrived as a very athletic player, who had few skills, and it took him into his 3rd season before he made enough improvement to be able to play one position and play it pretty well. He made an even bigger leap in his 4th year, as he improved in all areas, and was in my opinion the best center in the PAC10, leading the league in rebounding, and playing a credible defense and scored more as well.

Robert Thurman was more similar to Lars in that he was not really athletic or particularly skilled when he arrived at Cal. In his 3rd year of college, he improved enough to get meaningful minutes, and in his 4th season, he too, had a breakout of sorts, in that he improved a lot in defense and rebounding, and became able to do a few things offensively, and be depended on to play meaningful minutes.

I expect Lars to improve further. This period where he must play well, and keep out of foul trouble, because there is no one to take over and play as well as he is capable of, if he fouls out should do wonders for his maturity and confidence, if he can pull it off. If he does, I would expect further improvement for him next season, maybe even a breakout year.
Add Francisco Elson to this list. Pretty good athlete a la Richard Solomon who needed a few years in Europe before fashioning a nice NBA career.
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Big C
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In reply to HearstMining • 5:20p, 2/13/22

Classic example of this was the late Mark Eaton, the biggest guy I ever saw in Harmon/Haas. At UCLA, I don't believe he was ever a regular starter and his minutes were not very productive. He reminded me of our guy Kameron Rooks, except about 3-4 inches taller*. But he kept working and kept working and by his mid 20s he was a pretty darned good NBA player. It was like an eight-year process.


* If you saw Rooks in person, it's almost hard to imagine anybody being 3-4 inches taller. Dude was listed at 7-0, but when he stood next to Kingsley Okoroh (listed at 7-1), he was obviously taller. I bet Rooks was a good 2 inches taller than Lars, but he would hide in Mark Eaton's shadow.
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puget sound cal fan
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In reply to RJABear • 4:38p, 2/18/22
He needs Pete Newell's "Big Man Camp".
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Chapman_is_Gone
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6:43p, 2/18/22
Take off that red neck!


.
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HoopDreams
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In reply to puget sound cal fan • 9:22p, 2/18/22
puget sound cal fan said:
He needs Pete Newell's "Big Man Camp".
based on the games since Kelly went down, I think Lars is contributing more as a junior than Rooks
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NVBear78
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In reply to HoopDreams • 10:43p, 2/18/22
HoopDreams said:
puget sound cal fan said:
He needs Pete Newell's "Big Man Camp".
based on the games since Kelly went down, I think Lars is contributing more as a junior than Rooks


Agreed. Much more
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NVBear78
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10:51p, 2/18/22
Does Lars have one more year to play or is he like Kelly with a potential extra "Covid" year. With the way he has developed this season I would be interested to see what he could do over the next two seasons.
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Big C
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In reply to Chapman_is_Gone • 11:01p, 2/18/22
Chapman_is_Gone said:
Take off that red neck!


.
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Chapman, how long does it take you to type those last ten lines of every post? Don't think I'm not on to you: Funny guy such as yourself laboriously typing all of that, meanwhile asking the mods to look into this "computer glitch". You'll surely be laughing as you slowly drive them crazy looking for the problem, but you should know: They have families. Call it off, man. Know when to stop.
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drizzlybear
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In reply to NVBear78 • 12:19a, 2/19/22
NVBear78 said:
Does Lars have one more year to play or is he like Kelly with a potential extra "Covid" year. With the way he has developed this season I would be interested to see what he could do over the next two seasons.

All the players besides this year's new arrivals (freshmen and Shepherd) get an extra year.
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Big C
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In reply to drizzlybear • 12:40a, 2/19/22
drizzlybear said:
NVBear78 said:
Does Lars have one more year to play or is he like Kelly with a potential extra "Covid" year. With the way he has developed this season I would be interested to see what he could do over the next two seasons.

All the players besides this year's new arrivals (freshmen and Shepherd) get an extra year.

This is also the 5th and last year for Anticevich and Foreman.
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drizzlybear
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In reply to Big C • 1:18a, 2/19/22
Big C said:
drizzlybear said:
NVBear78 said:
Does Lars have one more year to play or is he like Kelly with a potential extra "Covid" year. With the way he has developed this season I would be interested to see what he could do over the next two seasons.

All the players besides this year's new arrivals (freshmen and Shepherd) get an extra year.

This is also the 5th and last year for Anticevich and Foreman.
Correct. This season is their extra year.
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oskidunker
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In reply to Chapman_is_Gone • 9:58a, 2/19/22
Chapman_is_Gone said:
Take off that red neck!


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You got to get rid of all that code, please.
Go Bears!
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smh
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In reply to oskidunker • 10:06a, 2/19/22
oskidunker
Chapman_is_Gone said:
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> You got to get rid of all that code, please.

fwiw blocking works.
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SFCityBear
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In reply to smh • 1:27p, 2/19/22
smh said:
oskidunker
Chapman_is_Gone said:
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> You got to get rid of all that code, please.

fwiw blocking works.
Do you mean Chapman should block this extra stuff, or we should block him?
SFCityBear
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calumnus
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In reply to drizzlybear • 3:20p, 2/19/22
drizzlybear said:
NVBear78 said:
Does Lars have one more year to play or is he like Kelly with a potential extra "Covid" year. With the way he has developed this season I would be interested to see what he could do over the next two seasons.

All the players besides this year's new arrivals (freshmen and Shepherd) get an extra year.


So Lars has, potentially, two more years. As does everyone in Fox's first class.
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SFCityBear
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6:54p, 2/19/22
16 points and 8 boards today? I'll take that from Lars every day and like it. If Kelly comes back, and Lars keeps up this pace, we can start Lars at center, and Kelly at his more natural position, PF. I can dream, can't I?
SFCityBear
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Big C
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In reply to SFCityBear • 7:05p, 2/19/22
SFCityBear said:
16 points and 8 boards today? I'll take that from Lars every day and like it. If Kelly comes back, and Lars keeps up this pace, we can start Lars at center, and Kelly at his more natural position, PF. I can dream, can't I?

If you're a Cal fan, you not only can dream, you must.
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bearister
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7:35p, 2/19/22
Lars has touch around the basket. Few big men in Cal history have had touch.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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HoopDreams
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In reply to bearister • 9:46p, 2/19/22
bearister said:
Lars has touch around the basket. Few big men in Cal history have had touch.


Yes, and he defended Carlson well, even out to the 3 line (he was 0-2 from 3, and held under his season average)

Lars also had some tough rebounds, went aggressive to the basket once, had a block and assist

I think overall, he's turning out to be a good center
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RedlessWardrobe
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In reply to SFCityBear • 7:30a, 2/20/22
SFCityBear said:
16 points and 8 boards today? I'll take that from Lars every day and like it. If Kelly comes back, and Lars keeps up this pace, we can start Lars at center, and Kelly at his more natural position, PF. I can dream, can't I?
Not to blow my own horn, but I started pushing for this on this board this season, before the conference games started and before Andre got injured. Coach Fox didn't think it was worth implementing
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SFCityBear
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In reply to RedlessWardrobe • 2:49p, 2/20/22
RedlessWardrobe said:
SFCityBear said:
16 points and 8 boards today? I'll take that from Lars every day and like it. If Kelly comes back, and Lars keeps up this pace, we can start Lars at center, and Kelly at his more natural position, PF. I can dream, can't I?
Not to blow my own horn, but I started pushing for this on this board this season, before the conference games started and before Andre got injured. Coach Fox didn't think it was worth implementing
Several of us had mentioned the same idea, but I don't think Lars was far enough along in his development to for a coach to really commit to doing it long term. This is only one game. He has had more good games this year and fewer bad ones, it seems. He needs to show consistency, and show Fox and us how he can play against the best centers in the conference. The other question would be how well does Kelly do, if he's moved to the PF? He will be posting up a little less often and facing up a little more. And playing farther from the rim sometimes, how will that affect his rebounding? I look forward to seeing what you suggest, and hope it happens. A stronger Kuany, and a healthy and improved DJ will help this team, along with the new kid from Ireland via Mexico City.
SFCityBear
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calumnus
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In reply to RedlessWardrobe • 4:17p, 2/20/22
RedlessWardrobe said:
SFCityBear said:
16 points and 8 boards today? I'll take that from Lars every day and like it. If Kelly comes back, and Lars keeps up this pace, we can start Lars at center, and Kelly at his more natural position, PF. I can dream, can't I?
Not to blow my own horn, but I started pushing for this on this board this season, before the conference games started and before Andre got injured. Coach Fox didn't think it was worth implementing


Lars has been near the top of the advanced stats per minute played since tge beginning of this year. I too suggested the above, especially when It was clear Grant was struggling and Kelly started showing his shot away from the basket. My preferred lineup from early on would have been:
Lars, Kelly, Alajiki, Celestine, Shepherd with Brown, Grant, Kuany and Foreman off the bench. And, yes, depending on matchups, I'd throw in plenty of 3-2 or other extended zones with Lars and Kelly protecting the rim.
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oskidunker
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4:33p, 2/20/22
As bad as Grant has been shooting, he does have an inside game and mid range shot which Sam does not. Hard choice.
Go Bears!
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drizzlybear
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5:51p, 2/20/22
I think we take for granted (no pun intended) what GA does for this team. It's easy to see shots going in or not, but he does so much for this team, on both ends of the floor. I think we'll miss him when he's gone, even though it might be hard to recognize it.
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