ESPN published an article today that seems to question the vaccination status of some NBA players. While nothing is definitive, they seem to imply that Jaylen Brown may be unvaccinated.

I suspect there is more reporting to come…

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33631986/facing-potential-playoff-games-toronto-boston-celtics-philadelphia-76ers-decline-say-teams-fully-vaccinated

Jaylen played in the Celtics' November game in Toronto, so I think the ESPN writer is wrong.

Box score: https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202111280TOR.html

Edit: Apparently Canada only started barring unvaxxed NBA players in January, so Jaylen could have played in the November game without being vaxxed.

So it's possible that he and Horford are unvaxxed and would miss any Celtics playoff games in Toronto.

Yikes. Hopefully Jaylen is vaxxed but if he isnt, ***. Kinda over the most prominent Cal players in the NFL and NBA being both unvaccinated.

If the regular season ended today, the Celtics would play the Raptors in the first round, and if Game 3 in Toronto is on April 20, then Brown and Horford, if not yet vaxxed, would have to get the J&J shot on or before April 6 to be eligible to play in that game.

This is what Jaylen had to say about this on Sunday:

https://theathletic.com/3228032/2022/04/03/jaylen-brown-has-unfinished-business-with-celtics-in-postseason-im-excited-and-ready-to-play-against-anybody/

"Last year I missed the playoffs. I had a season-ending injury with my wrist," he said. "This year from a competitive standpoint I'm excited and ready to play against anybody. As a vice president of the Players Association, it's a part of my job description to protect our players' rights and our medical privacy. So you won't hear me comment on my status or anybody else's. But that's how I feel about it."

BearSD said:

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This is what Jaylen had to say about this on Sunday:

https://theathletic.com/3228032/2022/04/03/jaylen-brown-has-unfinished-business-with-celtics-in-postseason-im-excited-and-ready-to-play-against-anybody/

"Last year I missed the playoffs. I had a season-ending injury with my wrist," he said. "This year from a competitive standpoint I'm excited and ready to play against anybody. As a vice president of the Players Association, it's a part of my job description to protect our players' rights and our medical privacy. So you won't hear me comment on my status or anybody else's. But that's how I feel about it."

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That sounds like a statement from someone who is not vaxxed (what Rodgers should have said). Hopefully if they play in Toronto and he is not vaxxed he gets vaxxed so he can play. Well, hopefully he gets vaxxed period. I know too many people who have died from this virus.

Updating a previous discussion comparing the US and Canada:

Cases
US 80.1 million
Canada 3.5 million

Deaths
US 983 thousand
Canada 38 thousand

Death rate
US 1.23%
Canada 1.08%

calumnus said:

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BearSD said:

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This is what Jaylen had to say about this on Sunday:

https://theathletic.com/3228032/2022/04/03/jaylen-brown-has-unfinished-business-with-celtics-in-postseason-im-excited-and-ready-to-play-against-anybody/

"Last year I missed the playoffs. I had a season-ending injury with my wrist," he said. "This year from a competitive standpoint I'm excited and ready to play against anybody. As a vice president of the Players Association, it's a part of my job description to protect our players' rights and our medical privacy. So you won't hear me comment on my status or anybody else's. But that's how I feel about it."

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That sounds like a statement from someone who is not vaxxed (what Rodgers should have said). Hopefully if they play in Toronto and he is not vaxxed he gets vaxxed so he can play. Well, hopefully he gets vaxxed period. I know too many people who have died from this virus.

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Not necessarily. With Rodgers, saying you're "immunized" when asked point blank if you're "vaccinated" is an obvious no vaccine. With Brown's statement you can interpret him trying to come as close to saying he's vaccinated without saying he is for diplomatic reasons (still dumb in my mind, but not as dumb as just not getting vaccinated), if you interpret "ready to play against anyone" as meaning he can play in Toronto if he needs to. You could also interpret it in the non-literal, Bill Clinton impeachment hearing way, as in he means he's competitively ready to play against anyone, even if he actually can't due to regulations.

The only things that really matter to the Celtics are:
(1) Whether they play the Raptors in a playoff series, and
(2) Whether Brown and Horford, two starters who each average about 30 minutes a game and have a combined average of 34 points and 14 rebounds per game (and a combined salary of $52 million this season), will be able to play in Toronto.

Suppose the Celtics play the Raptors, split the first two games in Boston, and then have to play two in Toronto without Brown and Horford? If they had suffered serious injuries, that would be one thing, but this situation amounts to voluntarily deciding you just don't feel like playing in two of your team's most important games of the season.

Remember all the criticism Scottie Pippen took for refusing to go in for *one play* in a playoff game? It would be a few orders of magnitude worse to refuse to play in 2 or 3 entire playoff games.

concernedparent said:

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calumnus said:

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BearSD said:

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This is what Jaylen had to say about this on Sunday:

https://theathletic.com/3228032/2022/04/03/jaylen-brown-has-unfinished-business-with-celtics-in-postseason-im-excited-and-ready-to-play-against-anybody/

"Last year I missed the playoffs. I had a season-ending injury with my wrist," he said. "This year from a competitive standpoint I'm excited and ready to play against anybody. As a vice president of the Players Association, it's a part of my job description to protect our players' rights and our medical privacy. So you won't hear me comment on my status or anybody else's. But that's how I feel about it."

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That sounds like a statement from someone who is not vaxxed (what Rodgers should have said). Hopefully if they play in Toronto and he is not vaxxed he gets vaxxed so he can play. Well, hopefully he gets vaxxed period. I know too many people who have died from this virus.

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Not necessarily. With Rodgers, saying you're "immunized" when asked point blank if you're "vaccinated" is an obvious no vaccine. With Brown's statement you can interpret him trying to come as close to saying he's vaccinated without saying he is for diplomatic reasons (still dumb in my mind, but not as dumb as just not getting vaccinated), if you interpret "ready to play against anyone" as meaning he can play in Toronto if he needs to. You could also interpret it in the non-literal, Bill Clinton impeachment hearing way, as in he means he's competitively ready to play against anyone, even if he actually can't due to regulations.

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Brown's statement does not literally say that regulations won't stop him from playing in Canada. Reading between the lines, he COULD be trying to say he's vaccinated and Canadian regulations won't stop him. Or, reading between the lines, he COULD be trying to say he's unvaccinated.

But the LITERAL reading of his statement tells us nothing. Brown is a smart guy, and whether he's vaccinated or not, in a literal way, he didn't lie.

As opposed to Rodgers, who literally lied. His "I'm immunized" might have been an obvious "no" to the question of "Have you been vaccinated" if he hadn't first said, "Yeah." "Yeah" literally means yes. If you want to interpret "Yeah" in the non-literal Clinton way, and say, "it depends on what the meaning of 'Yeah' is," then I suppose you could argue he didn't lie. But that doesn't work. If the impeachment trial was about whether Clinton lied, as opposed to whether he should be tossed out of office for a lie about sex (or even whether he committed perjury, because you have to do more than lie under oath to commit perjury), then there is no doubt Clinton should have been convicted of lying, because he LIED, and if Aaron Rodgers were on trial for lying, he should be convicted, too, because he LIED.

Brown, however, was careful enough that whether or not he's vaccinated, he couldn't be convicted of lying.

Cal8285 said:

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concernedparent said:

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calumnus said:

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BearSD said:

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This is what Jaylen had to say about this on Sunday:

https://theathletic.com/3228032/2022/04/03/jaylen-brown-has-unfinished-business-with-celtics-in-postseason-im-excited-and-ready-to-play-against-anybody/

"Last year I missed the playoffs. I had a season-ending injury with my wrist," he said. "This year from a competitive standpoint I'm excited and ready to play against anybody. As a vice president of the Players Association, it's a part of my job description to protect our players' rights and our medical privacy. So you won't hear me comment on my status or anybody else's. But that's how I feel about it."

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That sounds like a statement from someone who is not vaxxed (what Rodgers should have said). Hopefully if they play in Toronto and he is not vaxxed he gets vaxxed so he can play. Well, hopefully he gets vaxxed period. I know too many people who have died from this virus.

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Not necessarily. With Rodgers, saying you're "immunized" when asked point blank if you're "vaccinated" is an obvious no vaccine. With Brown's statement you can interpret him trying to come as close to saying he's vaccinated without saying he is for diplomatic reasons (still dumb in my mind, but not as dumb as just not getting vaccinated), if you interpret "ready to play against anyone" as meaning he can play in Toronto if he needs to. You could also interpret it in the non-literal, Bill Clinton impeachment hearing way, as in he means he's competitively ready to play against anyone, even if he actually can't due to regulations.

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Brown's statement does not literally say that regulations won't stop him from playing in Canada. Reading between the lines, he COULD be trying to say he's vaccinated and Canadian regulations won't stop him. Or, reading between the lines, he COULD be trying to say he's unvaccinated.

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So exactly what I said, except pedantically?

concernedparent said:

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Cal8285 said:

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concernedparent said:

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calumnus said:

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BearSD said:

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This is what Jaylen had to say about this on Sunday:

https://theathletic.com/3228032/2022/04/03/jaylen-brown-has-unfinished-business-with-celtics-in-postseason-im-excited-and-ready-to-play-against-anybody/

"Last year I missed the playoffs. I had a season-ending injury with my wrist," he said. "This year from a competitive standpoint I'm excited and ready to play against anybody. As a vice president of the Players Association, it's a part of my job description to protect our players' rights and our medical privacy. So you won't hear me comment on my status or anybody else's. But that's how I feel about it."

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That sounds like a statement from someone who is not vaxxed (what Rodgers should have said). Hopefully if they play in Toronto and he is not vaxxed he gets vaxxed so he can play. Well, hopefully he gets vaxxed period. I know too many people who have died from this virus.

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Not necessarily. With Rodgers, saying you're "immunized" when asked point blank if you're "vaccinated" is an obvious no vaccine. With Brown's statement you can interpret him trying to come as close to saying he's vaccinated without saying he is for diplomatic reasons (still dumb in my mind, but not as dumb as just not getting vaccinated), if you interpret "ready to play against anyone" as meaning he can play in Toronto if he needs to. You could also interpret it in the non-literal, Bill Clinton impeachment hearing way, as in he means he's competitively ready to play against anyone, even if he actually can't due to regulations.

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Brown's statement does not literally say that regulations won't stop him from playing in Canada. Reading between the lines, he COULD be trying to say he's vaccinated and Canadian regulations won't stop him. Or, reading between the lines, he COULD be trying to say he's unvaccinated.

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So exactly what I said, except pedantically?

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LOL

I have a habit of reading posts before checking who wrote them. I got halfway thru the post and had to look up knowing darn well it had to be Cal8285.

concernedparent said:

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Cal8285 said:

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concernedparent said:

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calumnus said:

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BearSD said:

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This is what Jaylen had to say about this on Sunday:

https://theathletic.com/3228032/2022/04/03/jaylen-brown-has-unfinished-business-with-celtics-in-postseason-im-excited-and-ready-to-play-against-anybody/

"Last year I missed the playoffs. I had a season-ending injury with my wrist," he said. "This year from a competitive standpoint I'm excited and ready to play against anybody. As a vice president of the Players Association, it's a part of my job description to protect our players' rights and our medical privacy. So you won't hear me comment on my status or anybody else's. But that's how I feel about it."

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That sounds like a statement from someone who is not vaxxed (what Rodgers should have said). Hopefully if they play in Toronto and he is not vaxxed he gets vaxxed so he can play. Well, hopefully he gets vaxxed period. I know too many people who have died from this virus.

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Not necessarily. With Rodgers, saying you're "immunized" when asked point blank if you're "vaccinated" is an obvious no vaccine. With Brown's statement you can interpret him trying to come as close to saying he's vaccinated without saying he is for diplomatic reasons (still dumb in my mind, but not as dumb as just not getting vaccinated), if you interpret "ready to play against anyone" as meaning he can play in Toronto if he needs to. You could also interpret it in the non-literal, Bill Clinton impeachment hearing way, as in he means he's competitively ready to play against anyone, even if he actually can't due to regulations.

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Brown's statement does not literally say that regulations won't stop him from playing in Canada. Reading between the lines, he COULD be trying to say he's vaccinated and Canadian regulations won't stop him. Or, reading between the lines, he COULD be trying to say he's unvaccinated.

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So exactly what I said, except pedantically?

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Sure, cherry pick only the portions where we agree, and uh, we agree.

To say that if Brown is unvaccinated, his statement requires a "non-literal" Clintonesque reading is wrong. Period. And to say that Rodgers was obviously saying he was unvaccinated is also wrong. Period.

Brown's statement is literally true, whether unvaccinated or not, no Clintonesque BS there, as you seem to agree, he's leaving both open. It is Rodgers who flat-out lied, and can only escape having lied if he makes the Clintonesque argument that "yeah" doesn't mean "yeah"

Saying you're wrong on two points isn't saying exactly what you're saying. We agree the Clinton analogy is a good one, but there is no reasonably disputing you applied it to the wrong guy.

concernedparent said:

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Cal8285 said:

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concernedparent said:

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calumnus said:

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BearSD said:

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This is what Jaylen had to say about this on Sunday:

https://theathletic.com/3228032/2022/04/03/jaylen-brown-has-unfinished-business-with-celtics-in-postseason-im-excited-and-ready-to-play-against-anybody/

"Last year I missed the playoffs. I had a season-ending injury with my wrist," he said. "This year from a competitive standpoint I'm excited and ready to play against anybody. As a vice president of the Players Association, it's a part of my job description to protect our players' rights and our medical privacy. So you won't hear me comment on my status or anybody else's. But that's how I feel about it."

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That sounds like a statement from someone who is not vaxxed (what Rodgers should have said). Hopefully if they play in Toronto and he is not vaxxed he gets vaxxed so he can play. Well, hopefully he gets vaxxed period. I know too many people who have died from this virus.

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Not necessarily. With Rodgers, saying you're "immunized" when asked point blank if you're "vaccinated" is an obvious no vaccine. With Brown's statement you can interpret him trying to come as close to saying he's vaccinated without saying he is for diplomatic reasons (still dumb in my mind, but not as dumb as just not getting vaccinated), if you interpret "ready to play against anyone" as meaning he can play in Toronto if he needs to. You could also interpret it in the non-literal, Bill Clinton impeachment hearing way, as in he means he's competitively ready to play against anyone, even if he actually can't due to regulations.

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Brown's statement does not literally say that regulations won't stop him from playing in Canada. Reading between the lines, he COULD be trying to say he's vaccinated and Canadian regulations won't stop him. Or, reading between the lines, he COULD be trying to say he's unvaccinated.

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So exactly what I said, except pedantically?

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No, exactly what I said. It is what Rodgers (an unvaccinated person) should have said rather than lie. You said it was obvious Rodgers wasn't vaccinated from his statement. 8285 is agreeing with me, it was the opposite. When asked "Are you vaccinated?" Rodgers replied "Yeah, I'm immunized." If he didn't want to just say "no" he wasn't vaccinated he should have said what Jaylen said rather than lie.

This is about to become a much bigger story. Matisse Thybulle of the Philadelphia 76ers is unvaccinated and unable to play in Toronto.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33686020/philadelphia-76ers-list-matisse-thybulle-ineligible-play-thursday-toronto

There's going to be some big time jockeying over these final few games of the regular season in the Eastern Conference.

The visiting team that plays in Toronto in the first round would fly into Canada on April 19, the day before game 3 of the series.

Any players who are unvaxxed as of today can't fly to Canada on the 19th, because the Canadian rules require travelers to be at least two weeks past their J&J shot or their second shot of Pfizer or Moderna.

BearSD said:

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The visiting team that plays in Toronto in the first round would fly into Canada on April 19, the day before game 3 of the series.

Any players who are unvaxxed as of today can't fly to Canada on the 19th, because the Canadian rules require travelers to be at least two weeks past their J&J shot or their second shot of Pfizer or Moderna.

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Anyone who isn't vaxxed by now ain't getting vaxxed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/tyr0kh/mannix_the_celtics_have_some_unvaccinated_guys_my/

Things turned out as well for the Celtics as they possibly could have. They will be the #2 seed, and Toronto will be the #5 seed, and the two teams can only meet in the conference finals if both get that far.

The 76ers, on the other hand, will play the Raptors in the first round and will be without Matisse Thybulle for the games in Toronto.

BearSD said:

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Things turned out as well for the Celtics as they possibly could have. They will be the #2 seed, and Toronto will be the #5 seed, and the two teams can only meet in the conference finals if both get that far.

The 76ers, on the other hand, will play the Raptors in the first round and will be without Matisse Thybulle for the games in Toronto.

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So the mystery continues…. Is Jaylen Brown not vaccinated?

The NBA sucks.

I was laughing my ass off the other day when I heard them debating on television what the Lakers would have to do to make the playoffs. I looked it up, the Lakers were like 35-51 at the time. What a joke.

calumnus said:

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That sounds like a statement from someone who is not vaxxed (what Rodgers should have said). Hopefully if they play in Toronto and he is not vaxxed he gets vaxxed so he can play. Well, hopefully he gets vaxxed period. I know too many people who have died from this virus.

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How many of these people were professional basketball players?

BearForce2 said:

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calumnus said:

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That sounds like a statement from someone who is not vaxxed (what Rodgers should have said). Hopefully if they play in Toronto and he is not vaxxed he gets vaxxed so he can play. Well, hopefully he gets vaxxed period. I know too many people who have died from this virus.

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How many of these people were professional basketball players?

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1, my brother-in-law, drafted by the Lakers in the mid-80s.

BearForce2 said:

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calumnus said:

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That sounds like a statement from someone who is not vaxxed (what Rodgers should have said). Hopefully if they play in Toronto and he is not vaxxed he gets vaxxed so he can play. Well, hopefully he gets vaxxed period. I know too many people who have died from this virus.

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How many of these people were professional basketball players?

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I'm not worried about Jaylen per se, I would just like to see us all take the measures we can so we can put this behind us. The US is only 62% fully vaccinated and while transmission has slowed, hundreds are still dying every day and we are approaching 1 million deaths. Meanwhile Canada is 93% vaccinated and only 38,000 people have died of COVID in Canada since the pandemic began. Canada's rules worked.

Is no one going to mention that Brown had COVID in October 2021 (and for all we know may have had it before)? He also could have had a vax but not a second shot/boost.

I know MANY young people who had covid and/or initial vaxs that don't want to be boosted. And statistically speaking, the benefits of the vax to a young person (particularly one with recent covid) is very low.

I would also point out that the primary side effect of the vax a young person would be concerned about - myocarditis - would be a particular concern for a basketball player.

BearGoggles said:

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Is no one going to mention that Brown had COVID in October 2021 (and for all we know may have had it before)? He also could have had a vax but not a second shot/boost.

I know MANY young people who had covid and/or initial vaxs that don't want to be boosted. And statistically speaking, the benefits of the vax to a young person (particularly one with recent covid) is very low.

I would also point out that the primary side effect of the vax a young person would be concerned about - myocarditis - would be a particular concern for a basketball player.

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The chances of getting myocarditis from the virus are many times higher than from the vaccine.

calumnus said:

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BearForce2 said:

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calumnus said:

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That sounds like a statement from someone who is not vaxxed (what Rodgers should have said). Hopefully if they play in Toronto and he is not vaxxed he gets vaxxed so he can play. Well, hopefully he gets vaxxed period. I know too many people who have died from this virus.

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How many of these people were professional basketball players?

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I'm not worried about Jaylen per se, I would just like to see us all take the measures we can so we can put this behind us. The US is only 62% fully vaccinated and while transmission has slowed, hundreds are still dying every day and we are approaching 1 million deaths. Meanwhile Canada is 93% vaccinated and only 38,000 people have died of COVID in Canada since the pandemic began. Canada's rules worked.

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Already surpassed 1 million weeks ago.

Bad as they are, deaths aren't the only problem. I've seen numbers ranging from 5% to 30% of people who are infected with COVID-19, including young people and people with mild cases, experience some long haul symptoms. The CDC has counted 80 million cases so far, even 5% of that is an enormous cost in lost work and misery. I'd think an intelligent athlete would weigh the chance of losing playing time due to vaccination (on the order of 0.001%) against the chance due to contracting long COVID-19 (on the order of 1%).

However vaccinations don't totally prevent COVID-19 infections or long haul symptoms. I know. After two mRNA vaccinations, one booster, and very little contact with others I got COVID-19 anyway. More than three months later I still have symptoms which make me unable to work on my feet, let alone compete in the NBA.

calumnus said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Is no one going to mention that Brown had COVID in October 2021 (and for all we know may have had it before)? He also could have had a vax but not a second shot/boost.

I know MANY young people who had covid and/or initial vaxs that don't want to be boosted. And statistically speaking, the benefits of the vax to a young person (particularly one with recent covid) is very low.

I would also point out that the primary side effect of the vax a young person would be concerned about - myocarditis - would be a particular concern for a basketball player.

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The chances of getting myocarditis from the virus are many times higher than from the vaccine.

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Not true.

Can you rank the following from highest to lowest on chances of getting serious myocarditis.

Jaylen Brown
1) does not get vaccinated at all.
2) gets Moderna vax primaries and booster 6 months later.
3) gets Pfizer vax primaries and booster 6 months later.
4) gets JnJ vax primaries and Moderna booster 6 months later.
5) gets JnJ vax primaries and Pfizer booster 6 months later.
6) gets Pfizer primaries only.
7) gets Moderna primaries only.
8) gets JnJ primaries only.

oski003 said:

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Can you rank the following from highest to lowest on chances of getting serious myocarditis.

Jaylen Brown
1) does not get vaccinated at all.
2) gets Moderna vax primaries and booster 6 months later.
3) gets Pfizer vax primaries and booster 6 months later.
4) gets JnJ vax primaries and Moderna booster 6 months later.
5) gets JnJ vax primaries and Pfizer booster 6 months later.
6) gets Pfizer primaries only.
7) gets Moderna primaries only.
8) gets JnJ primaries only.

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I'd say all of these are much lower than the chance of serious injury from crashing his one-wheel scooter.

stu said:

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oski003 said:

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Can you rank the following from highest to lowest on chances of getting serious myocarditis.

Jaylen Brown
1) does not get vaccinated at all.
2) gets Moderna vax primaries and booster 6 months later.
3) gets Pfizer vax primaries and booster 6 months later.
4) gets JnJ vax primaries and Moderna booster 6 months later.
5) gets JnJ vax primaries and Pfizer booster 6 months later.
6) gets Pfizer primaries only.
7) gets Moderna primaries only.
8) gets JnJ primaries only.

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I'd say all of these are much lower than the chance of serious injury from crashing his one-wheel scooter.

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I didn't feel great for about 3 months post Moderna second shot, so I waited a full year to get boosted and chose Pfizer. I haven't had any issues post Pfizer booster. I am in my 40s but physically active.

After my first Pfizer shot I had chills for half a day, then I felt fine. After the second I only had a slightly sore arm, probably because I didn't move it enough. After the booster I had no reaction at all. Maybe that was a placebo.

calumnus said:

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oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Is no one going to mention that Brown had COVID in October 2021 (and for all we know may have had it before)? He also could have had a vax but not a second shot/boost.

I know MANY young people who had covid and/or initial vaxs that don't want to be boosted. And statistically speaking, the benefits of the vax to a young person (particularly one with recent covid) is very low.

I would also point out that the primary side effect of the vax a young person would be concerned about - myocarditis - would be a particular concern for a basketball player.

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The chances of getting myocarditis from the virus are many times higher than from the vaccine.

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Not true.

Can you rank the following from highest to lowest on chances of getting serious myocarditis.

Jaylen Brown
1) does not get vaccinated at all.
2) gets Moderna vax primaries and booster 6 months later.
3) gets Pfizer vax primaries and booster 6 months later.
4) gets JnJ vax primaries and Moderna booster 6 months later.
5) gets JnJ vax primaries and Pfizer booster 6 months later.
6) gets Pfizer primaries only.
7) gets Moderna primaries only.
8) gets JnJ primaries only.

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The US has had 1 million deaths. Canada has had only 38 thousand. Canada's protocols worked. Other than a trucker protest (with a lot of Americans talking about their 1st Amendment rights) they cooperated and followed strict lockdowns, masking and are now nearly all vaccinated. The sometimes violently anti-science, anti public health crowd in the US, fed by disinformation from the internet, certain "news" outlets and many politicians undermined and continues to undermine our efforts and has cost hundreds of thousands of lives.

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I mostly agree with this. Anyway, the basketball board isn't really the best place for vaccine discussion. I am a huge fan of vaccines but not a fan of mRNA covid vaccines, except to say it was 1000x better than having no vaccine at all.

And they have poutine - that HAS to count for something.