ND Okafor

5,302 Views | 51 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Big C
89Bear
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4thGenCal said:

4thGenCal said:

HoopDreams said:

hey some good news for Cal basketball !

that is very welcome news ... thanks for the info

and also thanks for explaining the housing situation, which is huge.
Thanks for the message - its a goal of mine to continue to help with the football housing, along with the basketball housing that several of us helped initially with the current basketball property purchase.
Football has a huge hurdle to overcome with finding enough good housing close to campus/stadium. The players have a very demanding schedule with early morning workouts, combined with class schedules (including summer). It's imperative that convenient and affordable housing be available to the football student athletes. The need was reinforced today when a highly sought after transfer Cal got, has 30 day temporary housing only (we were able to arrange thru the downtime between students vacating a unit June and moving in August 1) and is scrambling (along with football operations efforts) to find a longer term quality housing solution, that can be paid for via football monthly scholarship disbursements. Too often due to the high rental rates in Berkeley (to find one's own room in a close to campus location), players turn to substandard living situations that are located 15-25 minutes from campus/stadium. Its a tough outcome given lack of overseeing the player's surroundings, and can impact the player being on time for all team required meetings/workouts etc.
Ideally some passionate Cal alums who have the capability to invest toward local housing, could reach out to address this problem via the staff. I started this quest after hearing first hand the challenges faced from HC Wilcox, Coach Mike Saffel and Head of Football Operations Andrew McGraw. The quality of the staff that has been assembled is very attentive, personable and is creating a genuine "family' atmosphere w/in the program. No question, its time to show progress and a better W/L record, but its apparent that the feeling within the program is very bullish. Improving the housing crunch will be a valuable recruiting lever and certainly improve the players overall experience at Cal.
Sorry - just realized this response was more suited for the football message section on the site, but the housing challenges impact both basketball and football (though less so for basketball, but still a ongoing goal to get every player together at the same property)

Love the information you provide. Thanks for all that you do!!
eastcoastcal
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4thGenCal said:

HoopDreams said:

hey some good news for Cal basketball !

that is very welcome news ... thanks for the info

and also thanks for explaining the housing situation, which is huge.
Thanks for the message - its a goal of mine to continue to help with the football housing, along with the basketball housing that several of us helped initially with the current basketball property purchase.
Football has a huge hurdle to overcome with finding enough good housing close to campus/stadium. The players have a very demanding schedule with early morning workouts, combined with class schedules (including summer). It's imperative that convenient and affordable housing be available to the football student athletes. The need was reinforced today when a highly sought after transfer Cal got, has 30 day temporary housing only (we were able to arrange thru the downtime between students vacating a unit June and moving in August 1) and is scrambling (along with football operations efforts) to find a longer term quality housing solution, that can be paid for via football monthly scholarship disbursements. Too often due to the high rental rates in Berkeley (to find one's own room in a close to campus location), players turn to substandard living situations that are located 15-25 minutes from campus/stadium. Its a tough outcome given lack of overseeing the player's surroundings, and can impact the player being on time for all team required meetings/workouts etc.
Ideally some passionate Cal alums who have the capability to invest toward local housing, could reach out to address this problem via the staff. I started this quest after hearing first hand the challenges faced from HC Wilcox, Coach Mike Saffel and Head of Football Operations Andrew McGraw. The quality of the staff that has been assembled is very attentive, personable and is creating a genuine "family' atmosphere w/in the program. No question, its time to show progress and a better W/L record, but its apparent that the feeling within the program is very bullish. Improving the housing crunch will be a valuable recruiting lever and certainly improve the players overall experience at Cal.
Your messages are always so insightful and detailed. If you are willing to share, is there at least a perception within the building that recruiting has not been up to snuff? Meaning, do Knowlton/Fox recognize that coaching/schemes aside, we just aren't getting enough talent coming in through the recruiting pipeline? Do they have plans to change up the recruiting message or is it seen as a Cal-centric issue?
4thGenCal
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89Bear said:

4thGenCal said:

4thGenCal said:

HoopDreams said:

hey some good news for Cal basketball !

that is very welcome news ... thanks for the info

and also thanks for explaining the housing situation, which is huge.
Thanks for the message - its a goal of mine to continue to help with the football housing, along with the basketball housing that several of us helped initially with the current basketball property purchase.
Football has a huge hurdle to overcome with finding enough good housing close to campus/stadium. The players have a very demanding schedule with early morning workouts, combined with class schedules (including summer). It's imperative that convenient and affordable housing be available to the football student athletes. The need was reinforced today when a highly sought after transfer Cal got, has 30 day temporary housing only (we were able to arrange thru the downtime between students vacating a unit June and moving in August 1) and is scrambling (along with football operations efforts) to find a longer term quality housing solution, that can be paid for via football monthly scholarship disbursements. Too often due to the high rental rates in Berkeley (to find one's own room in a close to campus location), players turn to substandard living situations that are located 15-25 minutes from campus/stadium. Its a tough outcome given lack of overseeing the player's surroundings, and can impact the player being on time for all team required meetings/workouts etc.
Ideally some passionate Cal alums who have the capability to invest toward local housing, could reach out to address this problem via the staff. I started this quest after hearing first hand the challenges faced from HC Wilcox, Coach Mike Saffel and Head of Football Operations Andrew McGraw. The quality of the staff that has been assembled is very attentive, personable and is creating a genuine "family' atmosphere w/in the program. No question, its time to show progress and a better W/L record, but its apparent that the feeling within the program is very bullish. Improving the housing crunch will be a valuable recruiting lever and certainly improve the players overall experience at Cal.
Sorry - just realized this response was more suited for the football message section on the site, but the housing challenges impact both basketball and football (though less so for basketball, but still a ongoing goal to get every player together at the same property)

Love the information you provide. Thanks for all that you do!!
Thank you and I am just another passionate Cal alum who dearly wants the major sports of bball and football to succeed. We all see that the playing field is not level relative to most of our conference foes and any financial support/time that addresses the key areas of need, is a positive impact. Its also a feel good result as well for me to hopefully make the college living and overall experience improved for the student athletes. Financially speaking each quality house (and well located with 5-6 bedrooms/outfitted etc is about $2.3M to buy and then figure another $200k-$300k of needed upgrades. So ideally someone could go in with me 50/50 on the next one. Not a simple ask, but could be structured where the investor is guaranteed to be bought out within 24 months.
4thGenCal
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eastcoastcal said:

4thGenCal said:

HoopDreams said:

hey some good news for Cal basketball !

that is very welcome news ... thanks for the info

and also thanks for explaining the housing situation, which is huge.
Thanks for the message - its a goal of mine to continue to help with the football housing, along with the basketball housing that several of us helped initially with the current basketball property purchase.
Football has a huge hurdle to overcome with finding enough good housing close to campus/stadium. The players have a very demanding schedule with early morning workouts, combined with class schedules (including summer). It's imperative that convenient and affordable housing be available to the football student athletes. The need was reinforced today when a highly sought after transfer Cal got, has 30 day temporary housing only (we were able to arrange thru the downtime between students vacating a unit June and moving in August 1) and is scrambling (along with football operations efforts) to find a longer term quality housing solution, that can be paid for via football monthly scholarship disbursements. Too often due to the high rental rates in Berkeley (to find one's own room in a close to campus location), players turn to substandard living situations that are located 15-25 minutes from campus/stadium. Its a tough outcome given lack of overseeing the player's surroundings, and can impact the player being on time for all team required meetings/workouts etc.
Ideally some passionate Cal alums who have the capability to invest toward local housing, could reach out to address this problem via the staff. I started this quest after hearing first hand the challenges faced from HC Wilcox, Coach Mike Saffel and Head of Football Operations Andrew McGraw. The quality of the staff that has been assembled is very attentive, personable and is creating a genuine "family' atmosphere w/in the program. No question, its time to show progress and a better W/L record, but its apparent that the feeling within the program is very bullish. Improving the housing crunch will be a valuable recruiting lever and certainly improve the players overall experience at Cal.
Your messages are always so insightful and detailed. If you are willing to share, is there at least a perception within the building that recruiting has not been up to snuff? Meaning, do Knowlton/Fox recognize that coaching/schemes aside, we just aren't getting enough talent coming in through the recruiting pipeline? Do they have plans to change up the recruiting message or is it seen as a Cal-centric issue?
Thank you and absolutely Knowlton is hammering/meeting with Fox nearly weekly to get updates and an understanding of what is being done on the recruiting front to improve the level of player. Knowlton is organized and has put in place with Fox expectations for him. Yes Knowlton is stubborn and not a basketball guy by background, but He is very aware that the skill level on the roster is not Pac12 level and He has made that very clear to Fox that it must be improved along with conf results, or a change will be done. I am in the camp that a change needs to be made, but Knowlton believes that Fox deserves a longer rope because of 1) what he inherited 2) Covid limitations hit the program harder than other conf programs 3) the inherent obstacles Cal has with no practice facility, academic restrictions- meaning generally outside of Monty two seasons+ and Cuonzo one/two seasons, its mostly been bleak over the past 15 years 4) financial/program/dept limitations for buyouts 5) Not wanting to be seen a an AD with a short fuse thus a bit harder to get the next quality coach 6) Its his guy and He likes Fox. Not saying I agree on all of the areas stated, but they all play into giving Fox the longer lease.
philbert
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4thGenCal said:

eastcoastcal said:

4thGenCal said:

HoopDreams said:

hey some good news for Cal basketball !

that is very welcome news ... thanks for the info

and also thanks for explaining the housing situation, which is huge.
Thanks for the message - its a goal of mine to continue to help with the football housing, along with the basketball housing that several of us helped initially with the current basketball property purchase.
Football has a huge hurdle to overcome with finding enough good housing close to campus/stadium. The players have a very demanding schedule with early morning workouts, combined with class schedules (including summer). It's imperative that convenient and affordable housing be available to the football student athletes. The need was reinforced today when a highly sought after transfer Cal got, has 30 day temporary housing only (we were able to arrange thru the downtime between students vacating a unit June and moving in August 1) and is scrambling (along with football operations efforts) to find a longer term quality housing solution, that can be paid for via football monthly scholarship disbursements. Too often due to the high rental rates in Berkeley (to find one's own room in a close to campus location), players turn to substandard living situations that are located 15-25 minutes from campus/stadium. Its a tough outcome given lack of overseeing the player's surroundings, and can impact the player being on time for all team required meetings/workouts etc.
Ideally some passionate Cal alums who have the capability to invest toward local housing, could reach out to address this problem via the staff. I started this quest after hearing first hand the challenges faced from HC Wilcox, Coach Mike Saffel and Head of Football Operations Andrew McGraw. The quality of the staff that has been assembled is very attentive, personable and is creating a genuine "family' atmosphere w/in the program. No question, its time to show progress and a better W/L record, but its apparent that the feeling within the program is very bullish. Improving the housing crunch will be a valuable recruiting lever and certainly improve the players overall experience at Cal.
Your messages are always so insightful and detailed. If you are willing to share, is there at least a perception within the building that recruiting has not been up to snuff? Meaning, do Knowlton/Fox recognize that coaching/schemes aside, we just aren't getting enough talent coming in through the recruiting pipeline? Do they have plans to change up the recruiting message or is it seen as a Cal-centric issue?
Thank you and absolutely Knowlton is hammering/meeting with Fox nearly weekly to get updates and an understanding of what is being done on the recruiting front to improve the level of player. Knowlton is organized and has put in place with Fox expectations for him. Yes Knowlton is stubborn and not a basketball guy by background, but He is very aware that the skill level on the roster is not Pac12 level and He has made that very clear to Fox that it must be improved along with conf results, or a change will be done. I am in the camp that a change needs to be made, but Knowlton believes that Fox deserves a longer rope because of 1) what he inherited 2) Covid limitations hit the program harder than other conf programs 3) the inherent obstacles Cal has with no practice facility, academic restrictions- meaning generally outside of Monty two seasons+ and Cuonzo one/two seasons, its mostly been bleak over the past 15 years 4) financial/program/dept limitations for buyouts 5) Not wanting to be seen a an AD with a short fuse thus a bit harder to get the next quality coach 6) Its his guy and He likes Fox. Not saying I agree on all of the areas stated, but they all play into giving Fox the longer lease.
Thanks for all of the detailed information.

It seems crazy that if buyout finances are an issue that he'd extend his contract for another year.
stu
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4thGenCal said:

... Knowlton believes that Fox deserves a longer rope because of 1) what he inherited 2) Covid limitations hit the program harder than other conf programs 3) the inherent obstacles Cal has with no practice facility, academic restrictions- meaning generally outside of Monty two seasons+ and Cuonzo one/two seasons, its mostly been bleak over the past 15 years 4) financial/program/dept limitations for buyouts 5) Not wanting to be seen a an AD with a short fuse thus a bit harder to get the next quality coach 6) Its his guy and He likes Fox. Not saying I agree on all of the areas stated, but they all play into giving Fox the longer lease.
Thanks 4thGenCal from me too! Below I'm not arguing with you but with Knowlton.

1) The current level of talent is worse than what he inherited. Basically all the talent (except Anticevich) he inherited left Cal before finishing their eligibility.

2) I call BS. The Stanford women won a national title without being able to play or practice in Palo Alto for most of the season. And COVID-19 is not an excuse for our recruiting.

3) UCLA has Academics. Stanford has academics, Cal FB and WBB have all the same excuses and have recruited much better. And the guy with the most time outside of Monty/Cuonzo happens to be Fox.

4) As philbert pointed out then why did we raise his buyout by extending him?

5) I'd say a bigger impediment would be having to work with Knowlton.

6) Then maybe Fox isn't the only one who has to go.
Big C
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Regarding the "COVID extension" that coaches got: It might not require a full buyout in the case of termination w/o cause.

We don't know. (Or do we?)
4thGenCal
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stu said:

4thGenCal said:

... Knowlton believes that Fox deserves a longer rope because of 1) what he inherited 2) Covid limitations hit the program harder than other conf programs 3) the inherent obstacles Cal has with no practice facility, academic restrictions- meaning generally outside of Monty two seasons+ and Cuonzo one/two seasons, its mostly been bleak over the past 15 years 4) financial/program/dept limitations for buyouts 5) Not wanting to be seen a an AD with a short fuse thus a bit harder to get the next quality coach 6) Its his guy and He likes Fox. Not saying I agree on all of the areas stated, but they all play into giving Fox the longer lease.
Thanks 4thGenCal from me too! Below I'm not arguing with you but with Knowlton.

1) The current level of talent is worse than what he inherited. Basically all the talent (except Anticevich) he inherited left Cal before finishing their eligibility.

2) I call BS. The Stanford women won a national title without being able to play or practice in Palo Alto for most of the season. And COVID-19 is not an excuse for our recruiting.

3) UCLA has Academics. Stanford has academics, Cal FB and WBB have all the same excuses and have recruited much better. And the guy with the most time outside of Monty/Cuonzo happens to be Fox.

4) As philbert pointed out then why did we raise his buyout by extending him?

5) I'd say a bigger impediment would be having to work with Knowlton.

6) Then maybe Fox isn't the only one who has to go.

Totally understand the natural push back and I disagreed with him as well. To be objective though, its a bit of apples and oranges for Stanford WBB (different level of depth of NCAA competition and outstanding talented roster in place) - I coached AAU Girls Hoops and have had 4 D-1 players this past season, including one on the Stanford team - I stopped 6 years ago coaching) Stanford has a great tradition obviously as well and being private does have advantages for recruiting/financial backing. #3 Ucla does have academic requirements, but they have been able to get a few more marginal GPA athletes in than Cal. And I realize you are a WBB supporter (and props as hopefully they improve their conf record) but that team's performance has been miserable the last few seasons as well. And as has been debated on the Board not having a practice facility is a huge detriment - by the way - every school in the conf has one except Cal) But we are on the same overall page, this season should be the deciding season as to retain the HC or not - based on something at least 8th place or better (with noticeable late season positive results). Frankly not finishing in the top half of the conf, is failing to me.
stu
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Overall I agree with you - I'd be happy finishing in the top half of the conference and I'd grudgingly accept 8th plus a good-looking 2023 class.

Regarding WBB, Charmin inherited a worse roster situation than Fox did and it looks like the team is on an upward trajectory. Last season WBB went 9-2 OOC and the (many) conference losses were much closer than the year before. This season we should have better experience and depth. I can't predict a ceiling for this team but I'm confident it's higher than for MBB.
calumnus
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philbert said:

4thGenCal said:

eastcoastcal said:

4thGenCal said:

HoopDreams said:

hey some good news for Cal basketball !

that is very welcome news ... thanks for the info

and also thanks for explaining the housing situation, which is huge.
Thanks for the message - its a goal of mine to continue to help with the football housing, along with the basketball housing that several of us helped initially with the current basketball property purchase.
Football has a huge hurdle to overcome with finding enough good housing close to campus/stadium. The players have a very demanding schedule with early morning workouts, combined with class schedules (including summer). It's imperative that convenient and affordable housing be available to the football student athletes. The need was reinforced today when a highly sought after transfer Cal got, has 30 day temporary housing only (we were able to arrange thru the downtime between students vacating a unit June and moving in August 1) and is scrambling (along with football operations efforts) to find a longer term quality housing solution, that can be paid for via football monthly scholarship disbursements. Too often due to the high rental rates in Berkeley (to find one's own room in a close to campus location), players turn to substandard living situations that are located 15-25 minutes from campus/stadium. Its a tough outcome given lack of overseeing the player's surroundings, and can impact the player being on time for all team required meetings/workouts etc.
Ideally some passionate Cal alums who have the capability to invest toward local housing, could reach out to address this problem via the staff. I started this quest after hearing first hand the challenges faced from HC Wilcox, Coach Mike Saffel and Head of Football Operations Andrew McGraw. The quality of the staff that has been assembled is very attentive, personable and is creating a genuine "family' atmosphere w/in the program. No question, its time to show progress and a better W/L record, but its apparent that the feeling within the program is very bullish. Improving the housing crunch will be a valuable recruiting lever and certainly improve the players overall experience at Cal.
Your messages are always so insightful and detailed. If you are willing to share, is there at least a perception within the building that recruiting has not been up to snuff? Meaning, do Knowlton/Fox recognize that coaching/schemes aside, we just aren't getting enough talent coming in through the recruiting pipeline? Do they have plans to change up the recruiting message or is it seen as a Cal-centric issue?
Thank you and absolutely Knowlton is hammering/meeting with Fox nearly weekly to get updates and an understanding of what is being done on the recruiting front to improve the level of player. Knowlton is organized and has put in place with Fox expectations for him. Yes Knowlton is stubborn and not a basketball guy by background, but He is very aware that the skill level on the roster is not Pac12 level and He has made that very clear to Fox that it must be improved along with conf results, or a change will be done. I am in the camp that a change needs to be made, but Knowlton believes that Fox deserves a longer rope because of 1) what he inherited 2) Covid limitations hit the program harder than other conf programs 3) the inherent obstacles Cal has with no practice facility, academic restrictions- meaning generally outside of Monty two seasons+ and Cuonzo one/two seasons, its mostly been bleak over the past 15 years 4) financial/program/dept limitations for buyouts 5) Not wanting to be seen a an AD with a short fuse thus a bit harder to get the next quality coach 6) Its his guy and He likes Fox. Not saying I agree on all of the areas stated, but they all play into giving Fox the longer lease.
Thanks for all of the detailed information.

It seems crazy that if buyout finances are an issue that he'd extend his contract for another year.


4th Gen is just the messenger, but it is a mishmash of Knowlton illogic. His "putting pressure" on Fox, meeting with him weekly isn't going to make Fox a better recruiter. "We need better recruits" is not helping. Fox is already organized, already motivated. It mirrors Fox thinking Cal can win with just more "effort" and shows the lack of vision on the part of Knowlton and the man he hired (and yes, extended). He would only "give him more time" if he thought Fox could succeed, instead of just admitting he made a bad hire and improving the process for hiring the next coach (ie, someone other than him, someone who knows, understands and loves Cal and knows modern basketball, should be in charge of the hire).
sluggo
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4thGenCal said:

eastcoastcal said:

4thGenCal said:

HoopDreams said:

hey some good news for Cal basketball !

that is very welcome news ... thanks for the info

and also thanks for explaining the housing situation, which is huge.
Thanks for the message - its a goal of mine to continue to help with the football housing, along with the basketball housing that several of us helped initially with the current basketball property purchase.
Football has a huge hurdle to overcome with finding enough good housing close to campus/stadium. The players have a very demanding schedule with early morning workouts, combined with class schedules (including summer). It's imperative that convenient and affordable housing be available to the football student athletes. The need was reinforced today when a highly sought after transfer Cal got, has 30 day temporary housing only (we were able to arrange thru the downtime between students vacating a unit June and moving in August 1) and is scrambling (along with football operations efforts) to find a longer term quality housing solution, that can be paid for via football monthly scholarship disbursements. Too often due to the high rental rates in Berkeley (to find one's own room in a close to campus location), players turn to substandard living situations that are located 15-25 minutes from campus/stadium. Its a tough outcome given lack of overseeing the player's surroundings, and can impact the player being on time for all team required meetings/workouts etc.
Ideally some passionate Cal alums who have the capability to invest toward local housing, could reach out to address this problem via the staff. I started this quest after hearing first hand the challenges faced from HC Wilcox, Coach Mike Saffel and Head of Football Operations Andrew McGraw. The quality of the staff that has been assembled is very attentive, personable and is creating a genuine "family' atmosphere w/in the program. No question, its time to show progress and a better W/L record, but its apparent that the feeling within the program is very bullish. Improving the housing crunch will be a valuable recruiting lever and certainly improve the players overall experience at Cal.
Your messages are always so insightful and detailed. If you are willing to share, is there at least a perception within the building that recruiting has not been up to snuff? Meaning, do Knowlton/Fox recognize that coaching/schemes aside, we just aren't getting enough talent coming in through the recruiting pipeline? Do they have plans to change up the recruiting message or is it seen as a Cal-centric issue?
Thank you and absolutely Knowlton is hammering/meeting with Fox nearly weekly to get updates and an understanding of what is being done on the recruiting front to improve the level of player. Knowlton is organized and has put in place with Fox expectations for him. Yes Knowlton is stubborn and not a basketball guy by background, but He is very aware that the skill level on the roster is not Pac12 level and He has made that very clear to Fox that it must be improved along with conf results, or a change will be done. I am in the camp that a change needs to be made, but Knowlton believes that Fox deserves a longer rope because of 1) what he inherited 2) Covid limitations hit the program harder than other conf programs 3) the inherent obstacles Cal has with no practice facility, academic restrictions- meaning generally outside of Monty two seasons+ and Cuonzo one/two seasons, its mostly been bleak over the past 15 years 4) financial/program/dept limitations for buyouts 5) Not wanting to be seen a an AD with a short fuse thus a bit harder to get the next quality coach 6) Its his guy and He likes Fox. Not saying I agree on all of the areas stated, but they all play into giving Fox the longer lease.
I guess this should satisfy the AD needs to crack down on Fox crowd, of which there are actual members. You think Fox would want to recruit better because he is tired of failure and wants his lucrative job, the last lucrative jobs he gets. Because he would not have gotten even this lucrative job if it were not for (likely) the most mismanaged athletic department in the country. When Fox was hired I said he brought absolutely nothing to the table, and I have been vindicated. Right now Fox (and Jones for two years before) has had poor recent results, no history ever of success at the NCAA tournament, and little success putting players in the pros. His last three recruiting classes contained only one freshman, Celestine, who should even have been recruited unless double digits is the goal. Cal plays a very unattractive style to both fans and recruits, and the best player has transferred the last two years. After all this failure, inexplicably, not a single new assistant coach has been brought in. The Cal basketball ball brand is completely broken. The only way to fix it is to get rid of the two men, Fox and Knowlton, who are stealing money from it. But I would settle for Fox and hope Knowlton gets it right since a broken clock is right twice a day, so you never know.

Cal basketball has not been bleak until now. The team has been up and down and competed for the middle of the conference, sometimes better, ever since I started at Cal in the 80s. And Cal is the best public school in the world by some measures, has the best weather I have ever experienced, and is an interesting urban environment. I won't believe that someone else could not recruit decent players to Cal. Every other coach has.
philbert
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stu said:

Overall I agree with you - I'd be happy finishing in the top half of the conference and I'd grudgingly accept 8th plus a good-looking 2023 class.

Regarding WBB, Charmin inherited a worse roster situation than Fox did and it looks like the team is on an upward trajectory. Last season WBB went 9-2 OOC and the (many) conference losses were much closer than the year before. This season we should have better experience and depth. I can't predict a ceiling for this team but I'm confident it's higher than for MBB.


Just out of curiosity, what does a good looking 2023 class look like? With so many slots to give out, I'm afraid he will hamstring the next coach with his usual recruiting.
sluggo
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calumnus said:

philbert said:

4thGenCal said:

eastcoastcal said:

4thGenCal said:

HoopDreams said:

hey some good news for Cal basketball !

that is very welcome news ... thanks for the info

and also thanks for explaining the housing situation, which is huge.
Thanks for the message - its a goal of mine to continue to help with the football housing, along with the basketball housing that several of us helped initially with the current basketball property purchase.
Football has a huge hurdle to overcome with finding enough good housing close to campus/stadium. The players have a very demanding schedule with early morning workouts, combined with class schedules (including summer). It's imperative that convenient and affordable housing be available to the football student athletes. The need was reinforced today when a highly sought after transfer Cal got, has 30 day temporary housing only (we were able to arrange thru the downtime between students vacating a unit June and moving in August 1) and is scrambling (along with football operations efforts) to find a longer term quality housing solution, that can be paid for via football monthly scholarship disbursements. Too often due to the high rental rates in Berkeley (to find one's own room in a close to campus location), players turn to substandard living situations that are located 15-25 minutes from campus/stadium. Its a tough outcome given lack of overseeing the player's surroundings, and can impact the player being on time for all team required meetings/workouts etc.
Ideally some passionate Cal alums who have the capability to invest toward local housing, could reach out to address this problem via the staff. I started this quest after hearing first hand the challenges faced from HC Wilcox, Coach Mike Saffel and Head of Football Operations Andrew McGraw. The quality of the staff that has been assembled is very attentive, personable and is creating a genuine "family' atmosphere w/in the program. No question, its time to show progress and a better W/L record, but its apparent that the feeling within the program is very bullish. Improving the housing crunch will be a valuable recruiting lever and certainly improve the players overall experience at Cal.
Your messages are always so insightful and detailed. If you are willing to share, is there at least a perception within the building that recruiting has not been up to snuff? Meaning, do Knowlton/Fox recognize that coaching/schemes aside, we just aren't getting enough talent coming in through the recruiting pipeline? Do they have plans to change up the recruiting message or is it seen as a Cal-centric issue?
Thank you and absolutely Knowlton is hammering/meeting with Fox nearly weekly to get updates and an understanding of what is being done on the recruiting front to improve the level of player. Knowlton is organized and has put in place with Fox expectations for him. Yes Knowlton is stubborn and not a basketball guy by background, but He is very aware that the skill level on the roster is not Pac12 level and He has made that very clear to Fox that it must be improved along with conf results, or a change will be done. I am in the camp that a change needs to be made, but Knowlton believes that Fox deserves a longer rope because of 1) what he inherited 2) Covid limitations hit the program harder than other conf programs 3) the inherent obstacles Cal has with no practice facility, academic restrictions- meaning generally outside of Monty two seasons+ and Cuonzo one/two seasons, its mostly been bleak over the past 15 years 4) financial/program/dept limitations for buyouts 5) Not wanting to be seen a an AD with a short fuse thus a bit harder to get the next quality coach 6) Its his guy and He likes Fox. Not saying I agree on all of the areas stated, but they all play into giving Fox the longer lease.
Thanks for all of the detailed information.

It seems crazy that if buyout finances are an issue that he'd extend his contract for another year.


4th Gen is just the messenger, but it is a mishmash of illogic. His "putting pressure" on Fox, meeting with him weekly isn't going to make Fox a better recruiter. "We need better recruits" is not helping. Fox is already organized, already motivated. It mirrors Fox thinking Cal can win with just more "effort" and shows the lack of vision on the part of Knowlton and the man he hired (and yes, extended). He would only "give him more time" if he thought Fox could succeed, instead of just admitting he made a bad hire and improving the process for hiring the next coach (ie, someone other than him, someone who knows, understands and loves Cal and knows modern basketball, should be in charge of the hire).
4thGen is the hero in the story, putting up money to make the team better. If I were he, I would take a break until I had better partners. But I am glad he is doing it.
4thGenCal
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sluggo said:

4thGenCal said:

eastcoastcal said:

4thGenCal said:

HoopDreams said:

hey some good news for Cal basketball !

that is very welcome news ... thanks for the info

and also thanks for explaining the housing situation, which is huge.
Thanks for the message - its a goal of mine to continue to help with the football housing, along with the basketball housing that several of us helped initially with the current basketball property purchase.
Football has a huge hurdle to overcome with finding enough good housing close to campus/stadium. The players have a very demanding schedule with early morning workouts, combined with class schedules (including summer). It's imperative that convenient and affordable housing be available to the football student athletes. The need was reinforced today when a highly sought after transfer Cal got, has 30 day temporary housing only (we were able to arrange thru the downtime between students vacating a unit June and moving in August 1) and is scrambling (along with football operations efforts) to find a longer term quality housing solution, that can be paid for via football monthly scholarship disbursements. Too often due to the high rental rates in Berkeley (to find one's own room in a close to campus location), players turn to substandard living situations that are located 15-25 minutes from campus/stadium. Its a tough outcome given lack of overseeing the player's surroundings, and can impact the player being on time for all team required meetings/workouts etc.
Ideally some passionate Cal alums who have the capability to invest toward local housing, could reach out to address this problem via the staff. I started this quest after hearing first hand the challenges faced from HC Wilcox, Coach Mike Saffel and Head of Football Operations Andrew McGraw. The quality of the staff that has been assembled is very attentive, personable and is creating a genuine "family' atmosphere w/in the program. No question, its time to show progress and a better W/L record, but its apparent that the feeling within the program is very bullish. Improving the housing crunch will be a valuable recruiting lever and certainly improve the players overall experience at Cal.
Your messages are always so insightful and detailed. If you are willing to share, is there at least a perception within the building that recruiting has not been up to snuff? Meaning, do Knowlton/Fox recognize that coaching/schemes aside, we just aren't getting enough talent coming in through the recruiting pipeline? Do they have plans to change up the recruiting message or is it seen as a Cal-centric issue?
Thank you and absolutely Knowlton is hammering/meeting with Fox nearly weekly to get updates and an understanding of what is being done on the recruiting front to improve the level of player. Knowlton is organized and has put in place with Fox expectations for him. Yes Knowlton is stubborn and not a basketball guy by background, but He is very aware that the skill level on the roster is not Pac12 level and He has made that very clear to Fox that it must be improved along with conf results, or a change will be done. I am in the camp that a change needs to be made, but Knowlton believes that Fox deserves a longer rope because of 1) what he inherited 2) Covid limitations hit the program harder than other conf programs 3) the inherent obstacles Cal has with no practice facility, academic restrictions- meaning generally outside of Monty two seasons+ and Cuonzo one/two seasons, its mostly been bleak over the past 15 years 4) financial/program/dept limitations for buyouts 5) Not wanting to be seen a an AD with a short fuse thus a bit harder to get the next quality coach 6) Its his guy and He likes Fox. Not saying I agree on all of the areas stated, but they all play into giving Fox the longer lease.
I guess this should satisfy the AD needs to crack down on Fox crowd, of which there are actual members. You think Fox would want to recruit better because he is tired of failure and wants his lucrative job, the last lucrative jobs he gets. Because he would not have gotten even this lucrative job if it were not for (likely) the most mismanaged athletic department in the country. When Fox was hired I said he brought absolutely nothing to the table, and I have been vindicated. Right now Fox (and Jones for two years before) has had poor recent results, no history ever of success at the NCAA tournament, and little success putting players in the pros. His last three recruiting classes contained only one freshman, Celestine, who should even have been recruited unless double digits is the goal. Cal plays a very unattractive style to both fans and recruits, and the best player has transferred the last two years. After all this failure, inexplicably, not a single new assistant coach has been brought in. The Cal basketball ball brand is completely broken. The only way to fix it is to get rid of the two men, Fox and Knowlton, who are stealing money from it. But I would settle for Fox and hope Knowlton gets it right since a broken clock is right twice a day, so you never know.

Cal basketball has not been bleak until now. The team has been up and down and competed for the middle of the conference, sometimes better, ever since I started at Cal in the 80s. And Cal is the best public school in the world by some measures, has the best weather I have ever experienced, and is an interesting urban environment. I won't believe that someone else could not recruit decent players to Cal. Every other coach has.

Well said and spot on. Can't believe he has not replaced any staff members. The team I think will be quicker/more athletic, but where is the interior toughness/rim protection, consistent/good depth of outside shooting? The right coach with ties to the Oakland Soldiers and Prolithic Prep programs (in our near backyard) can recruit effectively.
calumnus
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sluggo said:

4thGenCal said:

eastcoastcal said:

4thGenCal said:

HoopDreams said:

hey some good news for Cal basketball !

that is very welcome news ... thanks for the info

and also thanks for explaining the housing situation, which is huge.
Thanks for the message - its a goal of mine to continue to help with the football housing, along with the basketball housing that several of us helped initially with the current basketball property purchase.
Football has a huge hurdle to overcome with finding enough good housing close to campus/stadium. The players have a very demanding schedule with early morning workouts, combined with class schedules (including summer). It's imperative that convenient and affordable housing be available to the football student athletes. The need was reinforced today when a highly sought after transfer Cal got, has 30 day temporary housing only (we were able to arrange thru the downtime between students vacating a unit June and moving in August 1) and is scrambling (along with football operations efforts) to find a longer term quality housing solution, that can be paid for via football monthly scholarship disbursements. Too often due to the high rental rates in Berkeley (to find one's own room in a close to campus location), players turn to substandard living situations that are located 15-25 minutes from campus/stadium. Its a tough outcome given lack of overseeing the player's surroundings, and can impact the player being on time for all team required meetings/workouts etc.
Ideally some passionate Cal alums who have the capability to invest toward local housing, could reach out to address this problem via the staff. I started this quest after hearing first hand the challenges faced from HC Wilcox, Coach Mike Saffel and Head of Football Operations Andrew McGraw. The quality of the staff that has been assembled is very attentive, personable and is creating a genuine "family' atmosphere w/in the program. No question, its time to show progress and a better W/L record, but its apparent that the feeling within the program is very bullish. Improving the housing crunch will be a valuable recruiting lever and certainly improve the players overall experience at Cal.
Your messages are always so insightful and detailed. If you are willing to share, is there at least a perception within the building that recruiting has not been up to snuff? Meaning, do Knowlton/Fox recognize that coaching/schemes aside, we just aren't getting enough talent coming in through the recruiting pipeline? Do they have plans to change up the recruiting message or is it seen as a Cal-centric issue?
Thank you and absolutely Knowlton is hammering/meeting with Fox nearly weekly to get updates and an understanding of what is being done on the recruiting front to improve the level of player. Knowlton is organized and has put in place with Fox expectations for him. Yes Knowlton is stubborn and not a basketball guy by background, but He is very aware that the skill level on the roster is not Pac12 level and He has made that very clear to Fox that it must be improved along with conf results, or a change will be done. I am in the camp that a change needs to be made, but Knowlton believes that Fox deserves a longer rope because of 1) what he inherited 2) Covid limitations hit the program harder than other conf programs 3) the inherent obstacles Cal has with no practice facility, academic restrictions- meaning generally outside of Monty two seasons+ and Cuonzo one/two seasons, its mostly been bleak over the past 15 years 4) financial/program/dept limitations for buyouts 5) Not wanting to be seen a an AD with a short fuse thus a bit harder to get the next quality coach 6) Its his guy and He likes Fox. Not saying I agree on all of the areas stated, but they all play into giving Fox the longer lease.
I guess this should satisfy the AD needs to crack down on Fox crowd, of which there are actual members. You think Fox would want to recruit better because he is tired of failure and wants his lucrative job, the last lucrative jobs he gets. Because he would not have gotten even this lucrative job if it were not for (likely) the most mismanaged athletic department in the country. When Fox was hired I said he brought absolutely nothing to the table, and I have been vindicated. Right now Fox (and Jones for two years before) has had poor recent results, no history ever of success at the NCAA tournament, and little success putting players in the pros. His last three recruiting classes contained only one freshman, Celestine, who should even have been recruited unless double digits is the goal. Cal plays a very unattractive style to both fans and recruits, and the best player has transferred the last two years. After all this failure, inexplicably, not a single new assistant coach has been brought in. The Cal basketball ball brand is completely broken. The only way to fix it is to get rid of the two men, Fox and Knowlton, who are stealing money from it. But I would settle for Fox and hope Knowlton gets it right since a broken clock is right twice a day, so you never know.

Cal basketball has not been bleak until now. The team has been up and down and competed for the middle of the conference, sometimes better, ever since I started at Cal in the 80s. And Cal is the best public school in the world by some measures, has the best weather I have ever experienced, and is an interesting urban environment. I won't believe that someone else could not recruit decent players to Cal. Every other coach has.



Exactly. The last 5 years have been bad, but in the 17 years before that we made the NCCA Tournament 9 times. If you extend back to 28 years to 1990 we made the NCAA Tournament 15 times.

In other words we generally made the NCAA Tournament a little more than every other year across the previous 3 decades and 5 coaches.

And we did that with arguably tougher academics, with no practice facility, with an even seedier, less gentrified COB… The reason we are bad under Jones and Fox has nothing to do with anything other than Jones and Fox. At least with Jones, he recruited some talent that just needed to be retained and be better coached. The longer we keep Fox the deeper will be the hole we need to climb out of.

stu
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philbert said:

Just out of curiosity, what does a good looking 2023 class look like? With so many slots to give out, I'm afraid he will hamstring the next coach with his usual recruiting.
I won't know until I see it. But I'd be less pessimistic if it had several 4-stars. At this point I wouldn't be happy waiting another few years for a bunch of 2-stars to develop (or not).
Big C
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stu said:

philbert said:

Just out of curiosity, what does a good looking 2023 class look like? With so many slots to give out, I'm afraid he will hamstring the next coach with his usual recruiting.
I won't know until I see it. But I'd be less pessimistic if it had several 4-stars. At this point I wouldn't be happy waiting another few years for a bunch of 2-stars to develop (or not).

Assuming -- barring some sort of unforeseen miracle turnaround -- this will be Fox's last season (or even next-to-last), we surely don't need all the scholarship slots filled up with more marginal players.
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