SFCityBear said:

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if we could pass him the ball at shoulder height or higher. We keep passing him the ball where he gets it below his waist. There was one stretch against K state where we attempted 5 passes to him and either he failed to handle them, or the ball was stolen, and all those passes were below his waist. You can't expect a seven foot tall player to handle these low passes. For a seven footer, if a pass is below his waist, the smaller defenders have at least as much chance at getting a hand on the ball as he does. If a pass comes to him at shoulder level or higher, the 7-footer has a better chance of catching it than the defender does.

Of those 5 passes yesterday, two of them were bounce passes, one from Joel Brown. For 4 years, I've watched Brown make bounce passes into a post player, and I can't remember one time where it has been successful. The bounce pass is a weapon, but bounce-passing to a 7 footer is almost sure to fail, unless you can bounce it off the floor high enough so the player receives it shoulder height or above, and the area near the basket is usually too crowded to attempt such a pass. It happens, usually as a stunt on fast break, but is very rare.

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TilWeWobble said:

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Hoop Dreams nailed it: too slow and mechanical.
Also, when was the last time we saw, on a pick n' roll, any real effort to pass to the roller much less a successful play off the screen? We just go through the motions and end up with last second one on one situations.

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KoreAmBear said:

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TilWeWobble said:

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Hoop Dreams nailed it: too slow and mechanical.
Also, when was the last time we saw, on a pick n' roll, any real effort to pass to the roller much less a successful play off the screen? We just go through the motions and end up with last second one on one situations.

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There was one executed pick and roll to Lars from Askew. It was actually nice.

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HoopDreams said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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TilWeWobble said:

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Hoop Dreams nailed it: too slow and mechanical.
Also, when was the last time we saw, on a pick n' roll, any real effort to pass to the roller much less a successful play off the screen? We just go through the motions and end up with last second one on one situations.

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There was one executed pick and roll to Lars from Askew. It was actually nice.

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Lars isn't a natural pick-and-roll post (Rabb was a prototype) and one could argue it should be harder for him to catch a ball while moving, dribble it once and go up for a shot.

Yet it worked (and he caught it) because the defense didn't expect it and the pass was well thrown. Lars didn't have anyone bump him or swiping at the ball or his hands at the catch or directly after

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KoreAmBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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TilWeWobble said:

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Hoop Dreams nailed it: too slow and mechanical.
Also, when was the last time we saw, on a pick n' roll, any real effort to pass to the roller much less a successful play off the screen? We just go through the motions and end up with last second one on one situations.

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There was one executed pick and roll to Lars from Askew. It was actually nice.

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Lars isn't a natural pick-and-roll post (Rabb was a prototype) and one could argue it should be harder for him to catch a ball while moving, dribble it once and go up for a shot.

Yet it worked (and he caught it) because the defense didn't expect it and the pass was well thrown. Lars didn't have anyone bump him or swiping at the ball or his hands at the catch or directly after

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Yes I wouldn't make any entry pass to Lars a go to thing.

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OdontoBear66 said:

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Have to disagree with SFCityBear. When Lars gets a rebound up high he brings it down. He always looks for movement to get a good shot.

But two years ago I beat the "Lars lacks the twitch factor" to death. Molasses runs down a wall quicker. Watching the game the other night he is just the same. Same mistakes over and over. But beyond his control his synapses just don't respond that quickly. Hopefully his back up develops quickly. Cal BB is very hard to watch.

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KoreAmBear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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if we could pass him the ball at shoulder height or higher. We keep passing him the ball where he gets it below his waist. There was one stretch against K state where we attempted 5 passes to him and either he failed to handle them, or the ball was stolen, and all those passes were below his waist. You can't expect a seven foot tall player to handle these low passes. For a seven footer, if a pass is below his waist, the smaller defenders have at least as much chance at getting a hand on the ball as he does. If a pass comes to him at shoulder level or higher, the 7-footer has a better chance of catching it than the defender does.

Of those 5 passes yesterday, two of them were bounce passes, one from Joel Brown. For 4 years, I've watched Brown make bounce passes into a post player, and I can't remember one time where it has been successful. The bounce pass is a weapon, but bounce-passing to a 7 footer is almost sure to fail, unless you can bounce it off the floor high enough so the player receives it shoulder height or above, and the area near the basket is usually too crowded to attempt such a pass. It happens, usually as a stunt on fast break, but is very rare.

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Unless he is 2 feet from the basket, if you throw it shoulder height, he will try to dribble it in a crowd and lose it anyway. He just has bad hands/instincts. Don't try to blame it on others. He has improved though I will give you that, and he seems like a very good dude.

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SFCityBear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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if we could pass him the ball at shoulder height or higher. We keep passing him the ball where he gets it below his waist. There was one stretch against K state where we attempted 5 passes to him and either he failed to handle them, or the ball was stolen, and all those passes were below his waist. You can't expect a seven foot tall player to handle these low passes. For a seven footer, if a pass is below his waist, the smaller defenders have at least as much chance at getting a hand on the ball as he does. If a pass comes to him at shoulder level or higher, the 7-footer has a better chance of catching it than the defender does.

Of those 5 passes yesterday, two of them were bounce passes, one from Joel Brown. For 4 years, I've watched Brown make bounce passes into a post player, and I can't remember one time where it has been successful. The bounce pass is a weapon, but bounce-passing to a 7 footer is almost sure to fail, unless you can bounce it off the floor high enough so the player receives it shoulder height or above, and the area near the basket is usually too crowded to attempt such a pass. It happens, usually as a stunt on fast break, but is very rare.

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Unless he is 2 feet from the basket, if you throw it shoulder height, he will try to dribble it in a crowd and lose it anyway. He just has bad hands/instincts. Don't try to blame it on others. He has improved though I will give you that, and he seems like a very good dude.

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You may be right. However, I was not trying to blame others for any failure of Lars. My post was about Cal players doing what is best to make every teammate who is on the floor with them successful, or at the very least not give a teammate a pass where it has a good chance of failing. We have to play to each of our teammate's strong points, and try to help him to succeed. I agree with giving Okafor as many minutes as we can as long as he does not give up the ball too often or make other mistakes too often in games we might win. No matter who plays, Lars or Okafor, that should be the case. Okafor, or some one else will have to play, because Lars is not likely capable of playing 40 minutes. So if Lars loses far less high passes, and loses most low passes, then it would seem common sense to give him the ball up higher, wouldn't it? The same would be true for Okafor. Wouldn't that benefit the team? It is likely that Okafor can not play 40 minutes either, so Lars will have to play some. Our players have few strong points, but they all have one or more strong points, and our plays from the coach and our player's decisions on the court, should all be focused on making each other successful.

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bearister said:

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SFCB, have you read this book about when Pat Conroy played PG for The Citadel? If not, immediately do so:

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SFCityBear said:

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bearister said:

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SFCB, have you read this book about when Pat Conroy played PG for The Citadel? If not, immediately do so:

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Thanks for the recommendation.

I just bought a pair of sneakers like the ones in the picture. Converse Chuck Taylor All Stars. Every kid in the City trying to get good at playing basketball in my day wore those shoes, except they were high tops. All the Cal players wore them when they won the NCAA title, as I remember. The Celtics wore the black low top model. White was the favorite. A teammate of mine claimed that the black shoes cut 2-3 points off the Celtics' average score for a game. The ones I just bought are not the same (nothing is). They are made in the Vietnam, and the rubber is hard, making them difficult to break in. The canvas is flimsy, and sizes are not quite right (I've tried two different ones. They just fell different, but then my feet feel different too. Dang.

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HoopDreams said:

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SFCityBear said:

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bearister said:

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SFCB, have you read this book about when Pat Conroy played PG for The Citadel? If not, immediately do so:

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Thanks for the recommendation.

I just bought a pair of sneakers like the ones in the picture. Converse Chuck Taylor All Stars. Every kid in the City trying to get good at playing basketball in my day wore those shoes, except they were high tops. All the Cal players wore them when they won the NCAA title, as I remember. The Celtics wore the black low top model. White was the favorite. A teammate of mine claimed that the black shoes cut 2-3 points off the Celtics' average score for a game. The ones I just bought are not the same (nothing is). They are made in the Vietnam, and the rubber is hard, making them difficult to break in. The canvas is flimsy, and sizes are not quite right (I've tried two different ones. They just fell different, but then my feet feel different too. Dang.

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very fashionable SF, especially for teen/twenties women

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SFCityBear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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if we could pass him the ball at shoulder height or higher. We keep passing him the ball where he gets it below his waist. There was one stretch against K state where we attempted 5 passes to him and either he failed to handle them, or the ball was stolen, and all those passes were below his waist. You can't expect a seven foot tall player to handle these low passes. For a seven footer, if a pass is below his waist, the smaller defenders have at least as much chance at getting a hand on the ball as he does. If a pass comes to him at shoulder level or higher, the 7-footer has a better chance of catching it than the defender does.

Of those 5 passes yesterday, two of them were bounce passes, one from Joel Brown. For 4 years, I've watched Brown make bounce passes into a post player, and I can't remember one time where it has been successful. The bounce pass is a weapon, but bounce-passing to a 7 footer is almost sure to fail, unless you can bounce it off the floor high enough so the player receives it shoulder height or above, and the area near the basket is usually too crowded to attempt such a pass. It happens, usually as a stunt on fast break, but is very rare.

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Unless he is 2 feet from the basket, if you throw it shoulder height, he will try to dribble it in a crowd and lose it anyway. He just has bad hands/instincts. Don't try to blame it on others. He has improved though I will give you that, and he seems like a very good dude.

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You may be right. However, I was not trying to blame others for any failure of Lars. My post was about Cal players doing what is best to make every teammate who is on the floor with them successful, or at the very least not give a teammate a pass where it has a good chance of failing. We have to play to each of our teammate's strong points, and try to help him to succeed. I agree with giving Okafor as many minutes as we can as long as he does not give up the ball too often or make other mistakes too often in games we might win. No matter who plays, Lars or Okafor, that should be the case. Okafor, or some one else will have to play, because Lars is not likely capable of playing 40 minutes. So if Lars loses far less high passes, and loses most low passes, then it would seem common sense to give him the ball up higher, wouldn't it? The same would be true for Okafor. Wouldn't that benefit the team? It is likely that Okafor can not play 40 minutes either, so Lars will have to play some. Our players have few strong points, but they all have one or more strong points, and our plays from the coach and our player's decisions on the court, should all be focused on making each other successful.

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sluggo said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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SFCityBear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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if we could pass him the ball at shoulder height or higher. We keep passing him the ball where he gets it below his waist. There was one stretch against K state where we attempted 5 passes to him and either he failed to handle them, or the ball was stolen, and all those passes were below his waist. You can't expect a seven foot tall player to handle these low passes. For a seven footer, if a pass is below his waist, the smaller defenders have at least as much chance at getting a hand on the ball as he does. If a pass comes to him at shoulder level or higher, the 7-footer has a better chance of catching it than the defender does.

Of those 5 passes yesterday, two of them were bounce passes, one from Joel Brown. For 4 years, I've watched Brown make bounce passes into a post player, and I can't remember one time where it has been successful. The bounce pass is a weapon, but bounce-passing to a 7 footer is almost sure to fail, unless you can bounce it off the floor high enough so the player receives it shoulder height or above, and the area near the basket is usually too crowded to attempt such a pass. It happens, usually as a stunt on fast break, but is very rare.

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Unless he is 2 feet from the basket, if you throw it shoulder height, he will try to dribble it in a crowd and lose it anyway. He just has bad hands/instincts. Don't try to blame it on others. He has improved though I will give you that, and he seems like a very good dude.

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You may be right. However, I was not trying to blame others for any failure of Lars. My post was about Cal players doing what is best to make every teammate who is on the floor with them successful, or at the very least not give a teammate a pass where it has a good chance of failing. We have to play to each of our teammate's strong points, and try to help him to succeed. I agree with giving Okafor as many minutes as we can as long as he does not give up the ball too often or make other mistakes too often in games we might win. No matter who plays, Lars or Okafor, that should be the case. Okafor, or some one else will have to play, because Lars is not likely capable of playing 40 minutes. So if Lars loses far less high passes, and loses most low passes, then it would seem common sense to give him the ball up higher, wouldn't it? The same would be true for Okafor. Wouldn't that benefit the team? It is likely that Okafor can not play 40 minutes either, so Lars will have to play some. Our players have few strong points, but they all have one or more strong points, and our plays from the coach and our player's decisions on the court, should all be focused on making each other successful.

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I guess I have to beat this into the ground. Why can't there be time when both Lars AND Okafor are on the court at the same time? Why do we have to always regard these guys as an OR alternative?

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As shown at the end against UCSD, a good alternative is NEITHER. Both are poor passers and neither can shoot from farther than five feet from the basket. Cal's offense, if you can call it that, is most effective at dribble penetration. Neither can dribble, and neither is great on the roll. I think Newell, Kuany and Alajiki are big enough in the post if the team plays zone. I think it is worth looking at this approach.

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HoopDreams said:

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Agree, but depends on match ups

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