In 40 years i have never tuned out before

9,137 Views | 105 Replies | Last: 12 mo ago by BC Calfan
bluesaxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
HoopDreams said:

i think they should have increased to 10k with a small number of boxes

but the biggest fails were the changes made to the student section which FiatLux explained.

now the best thing they can do is restore as much of the student section as possible

bearister said:

The expansion of Harmon/Haas to 12,000 capacity was a major forward thinking fail. 7500 would have been fine.

Expand it and give the students their tickets free. Get some bodies in there, and maybe they'll end up caring. And maybe visiting recruits won't see a graveyard.
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bluesaxe said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

eastcoastcal said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I feel for you, but you have done the right thing. It is a painful process, but you've done the right thing. Haven't seen a game in 3 years. Barely saw any in the couple years before. Life without Cal sports is bliss. You are in a dysfunctional relationship. When you fully end it and put your energy and time into more positive pursuits, you will be a much happier person.

They are right. Basketball is a non-revenue sport for Cal. Cal doesn't make any money on it. Cal will never make money on it. Made money with Jason Kidd, but even if Cal could get those days back (it can't), circumstances have changed. Winning will not cure anything. The people that spent money in those days are dying off. Students don't care. Young alums don't care. Under 50's don't care. And they won't care even if we win. Therefore, Cal doesn't care, and one could argue they shouldn't. The community has spoken or rather has remained silent while Rome burned.

Cal basketball serves two purposes. Simply fielding a team enables Cal to stay in the Pac12 and collect the conference payout. Pretending to care to the right people, namely senile octogenarians with a lot of money keeps a few big checks rolling in. What happened to you was you don't give enough for them to care to lie to you. Hiring Wyking Jones and paying him beans made the strategy obvious. Too obvious. Mark Fox is here and is drastically overpaid because Fox was at least someone the octogenarians had heard of, and the salary makes it look like we may care. Cal thinks the extra money for Fox over Jones pays for itself by bamboozling a few poor old fools into keeping the checks coming.

I feel bad for players who have to be led to slaughter game in and game out so that Cal can get a few extra dollars, but I don't need to participate in the abuse.

Hey, you're Oaktownbear! On a different thread, pretty recently, people pointed out your on-the-money take about the Fox hire back when it initially happened. Great to see you back even though sorry to hear you're not engaged with the program anymore. Would you tune in again if Fox's replacement is a quality hire?
Correction. I was OaktownBear. That dude is gone. That dude started going to football games when he was 5 and showed up 4 hours before game time with a bunch of class reading to pass the time in his first game freshman year to make sure he got the exact seat in the rooting section he had always wanted. Love that dude. He has passed on.

I very occasionally pop in here to see how some of my ol' mates are doing because the state of things is that I care more about the community here than the underlying reason it came together. I will say east - I've seen your posts on occasion and I feel for you a little bit because you are 30 years too late here. Wish I could give you what I had - which was not necessarily winning but was a great experience. Then again, you still get to be part of a great school and a great community - just one that doesn't value sports like you. My advice to you would be to have a blast, win or lose.

Cal won't do what is necessary to bring me back, and you won't want them to. (yet. Give it 20 years). And that is to play schools who prioritize football and basketball in a similar fashion. People here are so wrapped up in national relevance that they miss that we aren't relevant in Berkeley. Games are no fun and nobody goes or cares. It's no fun to watch sports teams that have zero chance of ever competing over the course of a season. Nor is it fun to go to games that have been stripped of all tradition and fun because people thought that the payoff for allowing that was that we could be in a better position to compete.

And they won't make a quality hire as you want and even if they did, they won't provide the institutional support for that coach to succeed. I'm not bitter about that. I got to have the college experience I wanted, and I won't judge those that came after me for not wanting the same things I did. What I am bitter about is the disgraceful mismanagement that leads to the absolute gross negligence of extending Fox and Knowlton on the terms they did. (Wilcox's extension is merely negligence). As far as I'm concerned the coach next year should be Fox and it should be until his buyout expires. No one should pay one penny to bail them out of that decision. Fox should stay until they can fire him without any buyout. Nor will it make a difference. Cal's days as a basketball high major are done. Hell, this year if they dropped down to mid major, they'd still be winless. Cal should pay coaching salaries commensurate with being the mid major that it wants to be and quit the charade.
Damn. I thought I was down on things. I am not much of a football guy so I can't comment on Wilcox, but it wasn't that long ago that Cal hoops had enthusiastic crowds and a 4 seed, and that could happen again if the AD didn't have his head up his butt. But if the alternative is to resign ourselves to a lesser role in that universe, to hell with mid-major. Just join the Patriot League.


The reason I am so vocal is I think there is still a chance to compete at the highest (or just below) levels in football and basketball. While we have hurdles, I truly believe Cal has huge advantages that we gail to exploit. I will keep it up until we do or the opportunity is gone forever. If the later happens, I will resign myself to it then, because, yes, I would still root for Cal in the MWC, but until then I will not give up hope. It also means that I will not blindly support and "just trust" the administrators and coaches that are leading us in the wrong direction.
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bluesaxe said:

HoopDreams said:

i think they should have increased to 10k with a small number of boxes

but the biggest fails were the changes made to the student section which FiatLux explained.

now the best thing they can do is restore as much of the student section as possible

bearister said:

The expansion of Harmon/Haas to 12,000 capacity was a major forward thinking fail. 7500 would have been fine.

Expand it and give the students their tickets free. Get some bodies in there, and maybe they'll end up caring. And maybe visiting recruits won't see a graveyard.


Absolutely one of the things that needs to be done is to reconfigure Haas, with one huge student section from baseline to baseline extending down to the court. The opposite side should be the chair backs, TV cameras (pointed at the students), TV booth, luxury boxes, etc. the sections under the baskets should be GA, student overflow, rowdy alums, people who want to make noise and disrupt opponents during free throws.

Big C
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calumnus said:

bluesaxe said:

HoopDreams said:

i think they should have increased to 10k with a small number of boxes

but the biggest fails were the changes made to the student section which FiatLux explained.

now the best thing they can do is restore as much of the student section as possible

bearister said:

The expansion of Harmon/Haas to 12,000 capacity was a major forward thinking fail. 7500 would have been fine.

Expand it and give the students their tickets free. Get some bodies in there, and maybe they'll end up caring. And maybe visiting recruits won't see a graveyard.


Absolutely one of the things that needs to be done is to reconfigure Haas, with one huge student section from baseline to baseline extending down to the court. The opposite side should be the chair backs, TV cameras (pointed at the students), TV booth, luxury boxes, etc. the sections under the baskets should be GA, student overflow, rowdy alums, people who want to make noise and disrupt opponents during free throws.



Absolutely. Get rid of the courtside seats, like we're the NBA with Spike Lee or Jack Nicholson sitting there or something. What a joke.

Headed to the Haas tonight. We have a group of about eight seats. I think just about everybody else has found a reason to not make it tonight (there's that bug going around, you know). "Big C, need my two tickets?" "Um, no thanks: You guys were the only ones I know who would want to go."
KoreAmBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calumnus said:

bluesaxe said:

HoopDreams said:

i think they should have increased to 10k with a small number of boxes

but the biggest fails were the changes made to the student section which FiatLux explained.

now the best thing they can do is restore as much of the student section as possible

bearister said:

The expansion of Harmon/Haas to 12,000 capacity was a major forward thinking fail. 7500 would have been fine.

Expand it and give the students their tickets free. Get some bodies in there, and maybe they'll end up caring. And maybe visiting recruits won't see a graveyard.


Absolutely one of the things that needs to be done is to reconfigure Haas, with one huge student section from baseline to baseline extending down to the court. The opposite side should be the chair backs, TV cameras (pointed at the students), TV booth, luxury boxes, etc. the sections under the baskets should be GA, student overflow, rowdy alums, people who want to make noise and disrupt opponents during free throws.


Makes too much sense.
eastcoastcal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
So annoying how it's configured. Just about pushed 75% of the students up to the side behind the band. Then the seating coordinator came and moved all the students sitting closer to the court in all the empty seats and told us to move up to the top of the stadium since it's not technically student section. There were about 4 adults total sitting in the section. Brutal
HoopDreams
How long do you want to ignore this user?
that is a crime

eastcoastcal said:

So annoying how it's configured. Just about pushed 75% of the students up to the side behind the band. Then the seating coordinator came and moved all the students sitting closer to the court in all the empty seats and told us to move up to the top of the stadium since it's not technically student section. There were about 4 adults total sitting in the section. Brutal
BC Calfan
How long do you want to ignore this user?
eastcoastcal said:

So annoying how it's configured. Just about pushed 75% of the students up to the side behind the band. Then the seating coordinator came and moved all the students sitting closer to the court in all the empty seats and told us to move up to the top of the stadium since it's not technically student section. There were about 4 adults total sitting in the section. Brutal


I saw this and it pissed me off so much. I snuck into the chair backs and some ticket dweeb kicked students out of there too. They are actively trying to make the atmosphere less exciting for a winless team. Maybe, just give them a pass and focus your efforts elsewhere?
TheFiatLux
How long do you want to ignore this user?
eastcoastcal said:

So annoying how it's configured. Just about pushed 75% of the students up to the side behind the band. Then the seating coordinator came and moved all the students sitting closer to the court in all the empty seats and told us to move up to the top of the stadium since it's not technically student section. There were about 4 adults total sitting in the section. Brutal
Gawd, I just hate stuff like that. Are you saying they ended up moving all these students shown in this picture?

Also, I'm sort of shocked at how many students were there...

calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
eastcoastcal said:

So annoying how it's configured. Just about pushed 75% of the students up to the side behind the band. Then the seating coordinator came and moved all the students sitting closer to the court in all the empty seats and told us to move up to the top of the stadium since it's not technically student section. There were about 4 adults total sitting in the section. Brutal


Fire Knowlton
eastcoastcal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TheFiatLux said:

eastcoastcal said:

So annoying how it's configured. Just about pushed 75% of the students up to the side behind the band. Then the seating coordinator came and moved all the students sitting closer to the court in all the empty seats and told us to move up to the top of the stadium since it's not technically student section. There were about 4 adults total sitting in the section. Brutal
Gawd, I just hate stuff like that. Are you saying they ended up moving all these students shown in this picture?

Also, I'm sort of shocked at how many students were there...


Yes, your picture actually perfectly encapsulates many who were asked to move-- all the people to the left and down were asked to go allllll the way up to the top. Mind you, there were virtually no adults in the section. I think I counted maybe mid single digits. It was all virtually empty.

I mean I'd understand if the students were taking away seats of paying adults but putting the loudest & most vocal contingent behind the band, on the side that cameras won't show, and all the way at the top where mics won't pick anything up? The department's seating coordinator who came over to move us said "Great you all came out but we gotta keep you to the assigned section". Why??
RayofLight
How long do you want to ignore this user?
eastcoastcal said:

TheFiatLux said:

eastcoastcal said:

So annoying how it's configured. Just about pushed 75% of the students up to the side behind the band. Then the seating coordinator came and moved all the students sitting closer to the court in all the empty seats and told us to move up to the top of the stadium since it's not technically student section. There were about 4 adults total sitting in the section. Brutal
Gawd, I just hate stuff like that. Are you saying they ended up moving all these students shown in this picture?

Also, I'm sort of shocked at how many students were there...


Yes, your picture actually perfectly encapsulates many who were asked to move-- all the people to the left and down were asked to go allllll the way up to the top. Mind you, there were virtually no adults in the section. I think I counted maybe mid single digits. It was all virtually empty.

I mean I'd understand if the students were taking away seats of paying adults but putting the loudest & most vocal contingent behind the band, on the side that cameras won't show, and all the way at the top where mics won't pick anything up? The department's seating coordinator who came over to move us said "Great you all came out but we gotta keep you to the assigned section". Why??
It also beggars the question why the Cal Band would be pushed beyond the rail. Historically, they sat at midcourt, and after the Haas renovation, they either sat along the sidelines facing the visiting bench or sat on along the baseline directly behind the basket. They are routinely the loudest and most numerous attendants to the games, and they keep getting pushed further and further away from the court because of the courtside seats. The movement of the Band started under Barbour and Williams, but under Knowlton they have been thrown even higher.

It's beyond insane.
Spreading light and goodness,
Over all the West.
eastcoastcal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RayofLight said:

eastcoastcal said:

TheFiatLux said:

eastcoastcal said:

So annoying how it's configured. Just about pushed 75% of the students up to the side behind the band. Then the seating coordinator came and moved all the students sitting closer to the court in all the empty seats and told us to move up to the top of the stadium since it's not technically student section. There were about 4 adults total sitting in the section. Brutal
Gawd, I just hate stuff like that. Are you saying they ended up moving all these students shown in this picture?

Also, I'm sort of shocked at how many students were there...


Yes, your picture actually perfectly encapsulates many who were asked to move-- all the people to the left and down were asked to go allllll the way up to the top. Mind you, there were virtually no adults in the section. I think I counted maybe mid single digits. It was all virtually empty.

I mean I'd understand if the students were taking away seats of paying adults but putting the loudest & most vocal contingent behind the band, on the side that cameras won't show, and all the way at the top where mics won't pick anything up? The department's seating coordinator who came over to move us said "Great you all came out but we gotta keep you to the assigned section". Why??
It also beggars the question why the Cal Band would be pushed beyond the rail. Historically, they sat at midcourt, and after the Haas renovation, they either sat along the sidelines facing the visiting bench or sat on along the baseline directly behind the basket. They are routinely the loudest and most numerous attendants to the games, and they keep getting pushed further and further away from the court because of the courtside seats. The movement of the Band started under Barbour and Williams, but under Knowlton they have been thrown even higher.

It's beyond insane.
I didn't even know that, thanks for the explanation-- they are absolutely the loudest and consistently rowdy group. I really wonder why it is then that they are placed behind the rail...
TheFiatLux
How long do you want to ignore this user?
eastcoastcal said:

RayofLight said:

eastcoastcal said:

TheFiatLux said:

eastcoastcal said:

So annoying how it's configured. Just about pushed 75% of the students up to the side behind the band. Then the seating coordinator came and moved all the students sitting closer to the court in all the empty seats and told us to move up to the top of the stadium since it's not technically student section. There were about 4 adults total sitting in the section. Brutal
Gawd, I just hate stuff like that. Are you saying they ended up moving all these students shown in this picture?

Also, I'm sort of shocked at how many students were there...


Yes, your picture actually perfectly encapsulates many who were asked to move-- all the people to the left and down were asked to go allllll the way up to the top. Mind you, there were virtually no adults in the section. I think I counted maybe mid single digits. It was all virtually empty.

I mean I'd understand if the students were taking away seats of paying adults but putting the loudest & most vocal contingent behind the band, on the side that cameras won't show, and all the way at the top where mics won't pick anything up? The department's seating coordinator who came over to move us said "Great you all came out but we gotta keep you to the assigned section". Why??
It also beggars the question why the Cal Band would be pushed beyond the rail. Historically, they sat at midcourt, and after the Haas renovation, they either sat along the sidelines facing the visiting bench or sat on along the baseline directly behind the basket. They are routinely the loudest and most numerous attendants to the games, and they keep getting pushed further and further away from the court because of the courtside seats. The movement of the Band started under Barbour and Williams, but under Knowlton they have been thrown even higher.

It's beyond insane.
I didn't even know that, thanks for the explanation-- they are absolutely the loudest and consistently rowdy group. I really wonder why it is then that they are placed behind the rail...
I can tell you why... it's because a few years ago the few people who actually sit along the baseline complained about the band being too loud. Imagine the complete lack of awareness and self centeredness it takes to complain about being at a college basketball game and the band being too loud... and the complete ineptitude of the department to then respond.
Big C
How long do you want to ignore this user?

Stupid bean counters and marketing people want to preserve the "integrity" of the valuable seats behind each basket and the courtside seats. This situation is emblematic of everything bad about the gameday experience at Cal Football and Basketball games lately. They may eventually kill the goose that laid the golden egg, i.e. permanently kill our fanbase ("Cal people", their friends and families).
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TheFiatLux said:

eastcoastcal said:

RayofLight said:

eastcoastcal said:

TheFiatLux said:

eastcoastcal said:

So annoying how it's configured. Just about pushed 75% of the students up to the side behind the band. Then the seating coordinator came and moved all the students sitting closer to the court in all the empty seats and told us to move up to the top of the stadium since it's not technically student section. There were about 4 adults total sitting in the section. Brutal
Gawd, I just hate stuff like that. Are you saying they ended up moving all these students shown in this picture?

Also, I'm sort of shocked at how many students were there...


Yes, your picture actually perfectly encapsulates many who were asked to move-- all the people to the left and down were asked to go allllll the way up to the top. Mind you, there were virtually no adults in the section. I think I counted maybe mid single digits. It was all virtually empty.

I mean I'd understand if the students were taking away seats of paying adults but putting the loudest & most vocal contingent behind the band, on the side that cameras won't show, and all the way at the top where mics won't pick anything up? The department's seating coordinator who came over to move us said "Great you all came out but we gotta keep you to the assigned section". Why??
It also beggars the question why the Cal Band would be pushed beyond the rail. Historically, they sat at midcourt, and after the Haas renovation, they either sat along the sidelines facing the visiting bench or sat on along the baseline directly behind the basket. They are routinely the loudest and most numerous attendants to the games, and they keep getting pushed further and further away from the court because of the courtside seats. The movement of the Band started under Barbour and Williams, but under Knowlton they have been thrown even higher.

It's beyond insane.
I didn't even know that, thanks for the explanation-- they are absolutely the loudest and consistently rowdy group. I really wonder why it is then that they are placed behind the rail...
I can tell you why... it's because a few years ago the few people who actually sit along the baseline complained about the band being too loud. Imagine the complete lack of awareness and self centeredness it takes to complain about being at a college basketball game and the band being too loud... and the complete ineptitude of the department to then respond.


Exactly. Instead of, "I'm sorry, we would be happy to move you to section __ where you not be so close to the band," they instead move the entire band?
RayofLight
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calumnus said:

TheFiatLux said:

eastcoastcal said:

RayofLight said:

eastcoastcal said:

TheFiatLux said:

eastcoastcal said:

So annoying how it's configured. Just about pushed 75% of the students up to the side behind the band. Then the seating coordinator came and moved all the students sitting closer to the court in all the empty seats and told us to move up to the top of the stadium since it's not technically student section. There were about 4 adults total sitting in the section. Brutal
Gawd, I just hate stuff like that. Are you saying they ended up moving all these students shown in this picture?

Also, I'm sort of shocked at how many students were there...


Yes, your picture actually perfectly encapsulates many who were asked to move-- all the people to the left and down were asked to go allllll the way up to the top. Mind you, there were virtually no adults in the section. I think I counted maybe mid single digits. It was all virtually empty.

I mean I'd understand if the students were taking away seats of paying adults but putting the loudest & most vocal contingent behind the band, on the side that cameras won't show, and all the way at the top where mics won't pick anything up? The department's seating coordinator who came over to move us said "Great you all came out but we gotta keep you to the assigned section". Why??
It also beggars the question why the Cal Band would be pushed beyond the rail. Historically, they sat at midcourt, and after the Haas renovation, they either sat along the sidelines facing the visiting bench or sat on along the baseline directly behind the basket. They are routinely the loudest and most numerous attendants to the games, and they keep getting pushed further and further away from the court because of the courtside seats. The movement of the Band started under Barbour and Williams, but under Knowlton they have been thrown even higher.

It's beyond insane.
I didn't even know that, thanks for the explanation-- they are absolutely the loudest and consistently rowdy group. I really wonder why it is then that they are placed behind the rail...
I can tell you why... it's because a few years ago the few people who actually sit along the baseline complained about the band being too loud. Imagine the complete lack of awareness and self centeredness it takes to complain about being at a college basketball game and the band being too loud... and the complete ineptitude of the department to then respond.


Exactly. Instead of, "I'm sorry, we would be happy to move you to section __ where you not be so close to the band," they instead move the entire band?


A Band that was rated as being worth a 10 point advantage by none other than Pete Newell.

I mean, it's not like the basketball and volleyball teams could have used an extra 10 points in their games in any games the past 4 years.
Spreading light and goodness,
Over all the West.
cal83dls79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
eastcoastcal said:

So annoying how it's configured. Just about pushed 75% of the students up to the side behind the band. Then the seating coordinator came and moved all the students sitting closer to the court in all the empty seats and told us to move up to the top of the stadium since it's not technically student section. There were about 4 adults total sitting in the section. Brutal
r u f'n kidding me? How pathetic. I had been going to games for years and wanted to upgrade but was denied. Go to my baseline seat and see tons of better seats vacant. That was it for me. Gave up my season tickets and bought tix at 1/3 price on stub hub or scalpers in better spots….well until I couldn't stomach what I was seeing on the court. I was there in the early 80's in Harmon which rocked and saw many huge games in Haas after graduating. Would always love it when the football team would show up. We'd try to pick out the players and coaches. Hell, even Dykes came to a few games. Tedford went to many as well.
oskidunker
How long do you want to ignore this user?
People pay $2000.00 each for those seats. By allowing them to be poached, you devalue the cost of the seats. I thought the ushers did a good job . If you want a free for all, I wont buy these seats
Go Bears!
TheFiatLux
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oskidunker said:

People pay $2000.00 each for those seats. By allowing them to be poached, you devalue the cost of the seats. I thought the ushers did a good job . If you want a free for all, I wont buy these seats
You're kidding, right? We're not talking about the seats on the court. We're talking about the seats in the lower stands. Doesn't really matter because in the stands are on the court,, nobody pays $2K for those seats, as evidenced by, you know, nobody sitting in those seats. Those seats are now lame give-aways that desperate sales people and development try and use to entice people (good luck with that). What devalues those seats is the product on the court.

With all due respect, if you think the ushers did a good job, you're part of the problem ruining Cal basketball.
cal83dls79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oskidunker said:

People pay $2000.00 each for those seats. By allowing them to be poached, you devalue the cost of the seats. I thought the ushers did a good job . If you want a free for all, I wont buy these seats
I think he's saying these were all empty and rather than being obscured by the band he moves down? I think the value of those seats is really a function of the performance on the court and not the sticker price. I think it's great that he's a student actually showing up in light of the futility of it all. I mean who here hasn't been to Haas or Harmon and moved down a few rows or so when it's you and 2000 other people in there? As a student that was part of the challenge and fun.
oskidunker
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TheFiatLux said:

oskidunker said:

People pay $2000.00 each for those seats. By allowing them to be poached, you devalue the cost of the seats. I thought the ushers did a good job . If you want a free for all, I wont buy these seats
You're kidding, right? We're not talking about the seats on the court. We're talking about the seats in the lower stands. Doesn't really matter because in the stands are on the court,, nobody pays $2K for those seats, as evidenced by, you know, nobody sitting in those seats. Those seats are now lame give-aways that desperate sales people and development try and use to entice people (good luck with that). What devalues those seats is the product on the court.

With all due respect, if you think the ushers did a good job, you're part of the problem ruining Cal basketball.
Then maybe I should stop paying that price. Yes, that is the price for seats right above the bench in section 17. The price for a season ticket is $750.00;plus a required $1200.00:Per seat donation. Where I sit in one of the first 5 rows about half the section was full of season ticket holders. Students tried to sit in the vacant seats and were removed. If you can sit there for free why should I pay the ransom?..

Yes, the ushers did a good job. If you want to sit there then pay what it costs because there is no open seating in the reserved sections.

An idea. If you want to poach seats sit higher up because they watch the lower rows very carefully

Another idea. Get there before the game actually starts. The area under the basket. was empty five minutes before tip off.
Go Bears!
dimitrig
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oskidunker said:

TheFiatLux said:

oskidunker said:

People pay $2000.00 each for those seats. By allowing them to be poached, you devalue the cost of the seats. I thought the ushers did a good job . If you want a free for all, I wont buy these seats
You're kidding, right? We're not talking about the seats on the court. We're talking about the seats in the lower stands. Doesn't really matter because in the stands are on the court,, nobody pays $2K for those seats, as evidenced by, you know, nobody sitting in those seats. Those seats are now lame give-aways that desperate sales people and development try and use to entice people (good luck with that). What devalues those seats is the product on the court.

With all due respect, if you think the ushers did a good job, you're part of the problem ruining Cal basketball.
Then maybe I should stop paying that price. Yes, that is the price for seats right above the bench in section 17. The price for a season ticket is $750.00;plus a required $1200.00:Per seat donation. Where I sit in one of the first 5 rows about half the section was full of season ticket holders. Students tried to sit in the vacant seats and were removed. If you can sit there for free why should I pay the ransom?..

Yes, the ushers did a good job. If you want to sit there then pay what it costs because there is no open seating in the reserved sections.

An idea. If you want to poach seats sit higher up because they watch the lower rows very carefully

Another idea. Get there before the game actually starts. The area under the basket. was empty five minutes before tip off.


When I was a student the student section would fill up for big games and we had to sit way up high. We would move down to empty seats. Sometimes the ticket holders would show up late (even after half time) and make us move. We had no problem with that and no one seemed to have a huge problem with it. I think you are barking up the wrong tree here.
BearlyCareAnymore
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oskidunker said:

People pay $2000.00 each for those seats. By allowing them to be poached, you devalue the cost of the seats. I thought the ushers did a good job . If you want a free for all, I wont buy these seats
This is not a professional sports team. If someone is paying that much for those seats because they think that is what they are worth, they are a complete idiot. The only way you pay that much for those seats is if you are trying to do something good for Cal (which I appreciate). I think a more realistic way to look at it is that you are giving Cal a $2000 donation and it comes with a free seat. It really shouldn't matter to you what the guy next to you paid. You can look at it as charity. Or you can look at it as paying for a seat guarantee. Nobody who "sneaks" into those seats was going to pay full fare for them, but chose to game the system by buying a cheaper seat and moving.

It is better for the team and for the program for those seats to be full. I would argue that for most people who pay $2000 (those that aren't asshats), their experience would be dramatically improved by sitting in a vibrant section with a lot of fans cheering. But the biggest problem with it being a charity is that for most of the people contributing, it is like a PBS tote bag. They want it because they are entitled to it, but they don't use it.

If I paid for expensive Warriors tickets, they better make sure people sit in their seats because it is a professional organization who sells a product. People don't donate to the Warriors, nor should they. Cal basketball seats at that level are clearly not a product being sold at market value. I would never buy them as such because it makes zero sense. They are a charitable endeavor. I don't buy them because that is not where I choose to distribute my charity. But if I did, I think it would be counterproductive for me to hurt the cause by trying to enforce rights (that really aren't even rights I have). And, by the way, you really would stop buying those tickets? Because I don't think you would. I mean, you are drastically overpaying for seats to support a program and that support has literally accomplished nothing in terms of wins. And the thing that would kill the deal for you is the ushers turning their back while some Cal fans sit next to you without paying. I just don't think so.

If someone is being charitable, I thank them for their charity and kindly ask that they extend their charity a tiny bit for the good of the program and enjoy their seat while not worrying about whether the guy next to them rooting on the team paid the same amount for his seat. If someone is paying what they think the seat is worht, I guess I thank them for being an easy mark.

By the way, even in a free market situation, whether it is theater, professional sports, whatever, if the event isn't going to sell out, as it gets closer to the event date, tickets are discounted in order to move them. When I go to an A's game, I'm almost always sitting near someone that paid a lot more for their seat. In fact, at MLB games, you can go in with your cheap ticket and upgrade on the MLB app to much better seats (and for the A's, that is a fraction of the cost)

TheFiatLux
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oskidunker said:

TheFiatLux said:

oskidunker said:

People pay $2000.00 each for those seats. By allowing them to be poached, you devalue the cost of the seats. I thought the ushers did a good job . If you want a free for all, I wont buy these seats
You're kidding, right? We're not talking about the seats on the court. We're talking about the seats in the lower stands. Doesn't really matter because in the stands are on the court,, nobody pays $2K for those seats, as evidenced by, you know, nobody sitting in those seats. Those seats are now lame give-aways that desperate sales people and development try and use to entice people (good luck with that). What devalues those seats is the product on the court.

With all due respect, if you think the ushers did a good job, you're part of the problem ruining Cal basketball.
Then maybe I should stop paying that price. Yes, that is the price for seats right above the bench in section 17. The price for a season ticket is $750.00;plus a required $1200.00:Per seat donation. Where I sit in one of the first 5 rows about half the section was full of season ticket holders. Students tried to sit in the vacant seats and were removed. If you can sit there for free why should I pay the ransom?..

Yes, the ushers did a good job. If you want to sit there then pay what it costs because there is no open seating in the reserved sections.

An idea. If you want to poach seats sit higher up because they watch the lower rows very carefully

Another idea. Get there before the game actually starts. The area under the basket. was empty five minutes before tip off.
Hey, I'm sorry... misunderstanding... we're talking about two different sets of seats. We were talking about the seats behind the baseline, not behind the benches. (see photo).

I'll tell you a story though... years ago a friend of mine moved down to first row seats right behind the scorer's table. The owner of the seats arrived and very nicely said to him "Hey, I know these aren't your seats, but you can stay, I just need you to move over because I have a friend joining me." The friend was Rickey Henderson. The owner of the seat was Wally Haas. I'm pretty sure one way or other he paid a lot for those seats. If he could be gracious and let someone stay in an otherwise empty seat, well we all can, don't you think?
blungld
How long do you want to ignore this user?
To continue the original thread, I can't believe I have actually stopped watching Cal basketball. It's not even a choice. I just sorta stopped caring and don't check the schedule or make plans around watching every game. It's such an odd feeling after not missing any games for decades.

During the SC game I remembered that Cal was playing. I opened the ESPN app, saw we were already down by 10 and that the last play was a "missed layup." I shook my head, closed the app, and never checked back in on the game or was tempted to turn it on and watch. How many diehards like me has Cal lost from total mismanagement and disregard for the program (and fans)?


Cal8285
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Saying it's not a choice, you just stopped caring, sort of echoes what I said earlier in this thread in response to the poster formerly known as Oaktown Bear.

I said in that post, "While I can't say I think Fox should stay until they can fire him without a buyout, in some ways, I might be worse than you. I feel indifferent about the whole thing. Remember, the opposite of love isn't hate, it is indifference. Fox stays to oversee the worst 2 or 3 year stretch in major conference history? Fine. Fox gets bought out? Fine. I'm too numb about basketball right now to care one way or the other."

Like you, it wasn't a choice not to care, it just happened. I just became too numb to care. It almost didn't feel like a choice when I didn't renew season tickets for this year after 44 years. I only went 3 times last year because I didn't care. I already didn't care, and it would have taken some affirmative action to renew, so I just didn't do it. I guess it was a choice not to waste money on something I wouldn't use and that I don't care about anymore. I thought I would still attend SOME games this season, but I find I just don't care. There is plenty of time left, but it still seems unlikely I'll get to the point where I care enough to go.

The only reason I watched the SC game on TV was because I enjoyed the comedy show that was Bill Walton (with occasional comedy from Roxy Bernstein). I usually find it distracts from the basketball game and is annoying, but I found that when I don't care about the basketball game, it is entertaining (although it was annoying when Walton talked about how great Mark Fox is). I didn't watch a second of the Arizona game, and didn't even quite remember what game time was.

In the end, you've summed it up pretty well. I find it hard to believe that I don't care anymore, but I really don't care anymore. Even if I'm watching, I don't care if we win or lose. Historically bad losing might help get rid of Fox earlier, but as I stated, I don't care. Win, lose, it just doesn't matter.

As you say, it is a very odd feeling, after so many decades of unconditional love for Cal basketball, I feel the opposite of love, I am indifferent.
BearlyCareAnymore
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cal8285 said:

Saying it's not a choice, you just stopped caring, sort of echoes what I said earlier in this thread in response to the poster formerly known as Oaktown Bear.

I said in that post, "While I can't say I think Fox should stay until they can fire him without a buyout, in some ways, I might be worse than you. I feel indifferent about the whole thing. Remember, the opposite of love isn't hate, it is indifference. Fox stays to oversee the worst 2 or 3 year stretch in major conference history? Fine. Fox gets bought out? Fine. I'm too numb about basketball right now to care one way or the other."

Like you, it wasn't a choice not to care, it just happened. I just became too numb to care. It almost didn't feel like a choice when I didn't renew season tickets for this year after 44 years. I only went 3 times last year because I didn't care. I already didn't care, and it would have taken some affirmative action to renew, so I just didn't do it. I guess it was a choice not to waste money on something I wouldn't use and that I don't care about anymore. I thought I would still attend SOME games this season, but I find I just don't care. There is plenty of time left, but it still seems unlikely I'll get to the point where I care enough to go.

The only reason I watched the SC game on TV was because I enjoyed the comedy show that was Bill Walton (with occasional comedy from Roxy Bernstein). I usually find it distracts from the basketball game and is annoying, but I found that when I don't care about the basketball game, it is entertaining (although it was annoying when Walton talked about how great Mark Fox is). I didn't watch a second of the Arizona game, and didn't even quite remember what game time was.

In the end, you've summed it up pretty well. I find it hard to believe that I don't care anymore, but I really don't care anymore. Even if I'm watching, I don't care if we win or lose. Historically bad losing might help get rid of Fox earlier, but as I stated, I don't care. Win, lose, it just doesn't matter.

As you say, it is a very odd feeling, after so many decades of unconditional love for Cal basketball, I feel the opposite of love, I am indifferent.
No, I'm still worse. For awhile I was where you guys were. I didn't make a choice. Just woke up one day and realized I had missed games and didn't notice. But I'm beyond that now. I'm not the hate you are thinking of. I'm not mad at Fox, Wilcox or Knowlton anymore. I truly don't care. I'm not mad at the failure. At this point I think Wyking Jones is the best hire in quite a while because he was the cheapest. When I stopped not caring is when they extended everybody. Wilcox and Knowlton's contracts are insane. And I'm not mad that we are stuck with them. I'm mad that we are stuck with their salaries. And then I think back to the stadium renovation and how much debt we put the university in and then didn't invest to make sure that generated the revenue to pay for itself, and I'm fuming. Cal simply cannot be trusted to run a revenue program anymore. I firmly believe within the next 5 years, between NIL and the conference going in the toilet, Cal is going to lose their shirts on this. I think people have their heads deep in the sand if they think this is a matter of "Oh, let's just hire Jeff Tedford Jr. and then we'll win and they everyone will pay lots of money to attend games and rich alums who have ignored us will spend like Alabama and in the meantime I'll start pulling golden egg laying pink fluffy unicorns out of my butt to solve everything".

I'm not mad at losing. I'm mad at hurting the university. If I was magically made AD right now, my first call would be to Mark Fox. You ain't getting fired and you ain't getting extended. You will finish your contract and go. If you don't want to stay under those circumstances, by all means go now. no buyout. I'm going to replace you with a coach who earns no more than 10% higher than UC Davis' coach. Next is Wilcox. There will be no more extensions. You finish your contract. At that point I'll see where we are and think about offering you a contract equal to UC Davis + 10%. Do with that what you will. If you want to go, go. Then I'd call Stanford and say you guys must know you need to decide to go all in on NIL or get out. If its the latter, let's you and me call the Ivy League and see what they say. Otherwise, Hello UC Davis, Sac State and Portland State. At least we might be able to entertain our spectators with some winable games.

There are two ways to mitigate your losses. One is to increase revenue. The other is to cut expenses. I know longer trust Cal to be able to do the former.
Cal8285
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Well, BCA fka OTB, at least you are able to be mad. Maybe you aren't mad about losing, you're mad about hurting the university. With respect to the basketball program's effect on the university, I'm not even mad about that, and I'm currently indifferent about it going forward. Based on your posts, I'm definitely more indifferent than you. Whether that is worse than you is for others to judge.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "the university." Students, alums, faculty, administration, the campus? A combination thereof? Only some of those pieces? Are you mad about hurting the university because it is really owned by the people of the State of California and you're one of us?

Regardless of what "the university" is, in terms of how basketball affects "the university," you care. Right now, I don't.

"There are two ways to mitigate your losses. One is to increase revenue. The other is to cut expenses. I know longer trust Cal to be able to do the former." I'm not sure why you would have ever trusted Cal to be able to do either. I'm with you when you don't trust Cal to be able to increase revenue, I can't say "I no longer trust Cal" because that would imply that at some point I did trust Cal to be able to increase revenue. I'm not with you if you trust Cal to be able to cut expenses. Cal has made some efforts to do so in the recent past, and pretty well failed.
stu
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearlyCareAnymore said:

There are two ways to mitigate your losses. One is to increase revenue. The other is to cut expenses. I know longer trust Cal to be able to do the former.
I assume the biggest loss is the football stadium renovation. If we'd known that UCLA and USC would be leaving the conference maybe we wouldn't have done that. But we did and the money is gone. The remaining question is whether any further investment in football will produce any net gain. I don't know.

Regarding basketball, I like your idea of a lower coaching salary. I'd prefer a low-base, high-incentive contract with one of the incentives being attendance.

A related item which many have mentioned is improving the gameday experience. I'd start with more students sitting closer to the court and restoring traditions. Some of those students may get inspired and grow into lifetime fans and donors. I don't think Knowlton's rush the riffraff to the rafters approach makes any sense here.
HearstMining
How long do you want to ignore this user?
stu said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

There are two ways to mitigate your losses. One is to increase revenue. The other is to cut expenses. I know longer trust Cal to be able to do the former.
I assume the biggest loss is the football stadium renovation. If we'd known that UCLA and USC would be leaving the conference maybe we wouldn't have done that. But we did and the money is gone. The remaining question is whether any further investment in football will produce any net gain. I don't know.

Regarding basketball, I like your idea of a lower coaching salary. I'd prefer a low-base, high-incentive contract with one of the incentives being attendance.

A related item which many have mentioned is improving the gameday experience. I'd start with more students sitting closer to the court and restoring traditions. Some of those students may get inspired and grow into lifetime fans and donors. I don't think Knowlton's rush the riffraff to the rafters approach makes any sense here.

Part of what fries my @ss is that Fox makes little, if any effort to improve attendance. I remember crusty old Monty talking up the impact of a big crowd - especially the students. He didn't go off on long sermons, but he'd stick in a sentence or two during interviews. I was out of state when Campanelli was here, but I recall reading that he also made an effort to improve attendance. Has Fox said or done anything?
stu
How long do you want to ignore this user?
This is Berkeley! What we need is a list of demands, a strike, maybe a sit-in. Imagine hundreds of fans inside Haas puking in their brown paper bags (better without eye holes) and thousands outside chanting Hell No, We Won't Go and distributing copies of the Basketball Manifesto. A BI poll would help prioritize our demands.
oskidunker
How long do you want to ignore this user?
stu said:

This is Berkeley! What we need is a list of demands, a strike, maybe a sit-in. Imagine hundreds of fans inside Haas puking in their brown paper bags (better without eye holes) and thousands outside chanting Hell No, We Won't Go and distributing copies of the Basketball Manifesto. A BI poll would help prioritize our demands.
Many did that to get rid of Jones.
The energy may not be there again considering what we might get as a new coach wont make any difference.
Go Bears!
BearlyCareAnymore
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oskidunker said:

stu said:

This is Berkeley! What we need is a list of demands, a strike, maybe a sit-in. Imagine hundreds of fans inside Haas puking in their brown paper bags (better without eye holes) and thousands outside chanting Hell No, We Won't Go and distributing copies of the Basketball Manifesto. A BI poll would help prioritize our demands.
Many did that to get rid of Jones.
The energy may not be there again considering what we might get as a new coach wont make any difference.
Thing is, Jones probably would have kept some of the better players who subsequently left. He MIGHT have done better. And we would have saved about $5.5M. So, yeah. Hard to say we ended up better off. I know Jones has won the same number of games for Cal this year as Fox and we aren't paying him anything.
BearlyCareAnymore
How long do you want to ignore this user?
HearstMining said:

stu said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

There are two ways to mitigate your losses. One is to increase revenue. The other is to cut expenses. I know longer trust Cal to be able to do the former.
I assume the biggest loss is the football stadium renovation. If we'd known that UCLA and USC would be leaving the conference maybe we wouldn't have done that. But we did and the money is gone. The remaining question is whether any further investment in football will produce any net gain. I don't know.

Regarding basketball, I like your idea of a lower coaching salary. I'd prefer a low-base, high-incentive contract with one of the incentives being attendance.

A related item which many have mentioned is improving the gameday experience. I'd start with more students sitting closer to the court and restoring traditions. Some of those students may get inspired and grow into lifetime fans and donors. I don't think Knowlton's rush the riffraff to the rafters approach makes any sense here.

Part of what fries my @ss is that Fox makes little, if any effort to improve attendance. I remember crusty old Monty talking up the impact of a big crowd - especially the students. He didn't go off on long sermons, but he'd stick in a sentence or two during interviews. I was out of state when Campanelli was here, but I recall reading that he also made an effort to improve attendance. Has Fox said or done anything?
For all the criticisms you could make of Campanelli, and there are a lot of those, he came in hard with we are beating UCLA and we are turning this program around and we don't play in a gym we play in an arena, etc.. The students loved Lou for a good while...until they didn't.
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.