In 40 years i have never tuned out before

9,895 Views | 105 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by BC Calfan
KoreAmBear
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bluesaxe said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I wonder if someone could explain to Mr. Knowlton that basketball should be a revenue sport and that it is, in fact, a revenue sport at a great number of schools. Perhaps people just assume that an AD would know something that obvious. The revelation might just shock him into action.
Whoever explains this to him, please also share with him that there is thing called the NCAA tournament in March.
BearlyCareAnymore
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BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I feel for you, but you have done the right thing. It is a painful process, but you've done the right thing. Haven't seen a game in 3 years. Barely saw any in the couple years before. Life without Cal sports is bliss. You are in a dysfunctional relationship. When you fully end it and put your energy and time into more positive pursuits, you will be a much happier person.

They are right. Basketball is a non-revenue sport for Cal. Cal doesn't make any money on it. Cal will never make money on it. Made money with Jason Kidd, but even if Cal could get those days back (it can't), circumstances have changed. Winning will not cure anything. The people that spent money in those days are dying off. Students don't care. Young alums don't care. Under 50's don't care. And they won't care even if we win. Therefore, Cal doesn't care, and one could argue they shouldn't. The community has spoken or rather has remained silent while Rome burned.

Cal basketball serves two purposes. Simply fielding a team enables Cal to stay in the Pac12 and collect the conference payout. Pretending to care to the right people, namely senile octogenarians with a lot of money keeps a few big checks rolling in. What happened to you was you don't give enough for them to care to lie to you. Hiring Wyking Jones and paying him beans made the strategy obvious. Too obvious. Mark Fox is here and is drastically overpaid because Fox was at least someone the octogenarians had heard of, and the salary makes it look like we may care. Cal thinks the extra money for Fox over Jones pays for itself by bamboozling a few poor old fools into keeping the checks coming.

I feel bad for players who have to be led to slaughter game in and game out so that Cal can get a few extra dollars, but I don't need to participate in the abuse.
eastcoastcal
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BearlyCareAnymore said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I feel for you, but you have done the right thing. It is a painful process, but you've done the right thing. Haven't seen a game in 3 years. Barely saw any in the couple years before. Life without Cal sports is bliss. You are in a dysfunctional relationship. When you fully end it and put your energy and time into more positive pursuits, you will be a much happier person.

They are right. Basketball is a non-revenue sport for Cal. Cal doesn't make any money on it. Cal will never make money on it. Made money with Jason Kidd, but even if Cal could get those days back (it can't), circumstances have changed. Winning will not cure anything. The people that spent money in those days are dying off. Students don't care. Young alums don't care. Under 50's don't care. And they won't care even if we win. Therefore, Cal doesn't care, and one could argue they shouldn't. The community has spoken or rather has remained silent while Rome burned.

Cal basketball serves two purposes. Simply fielding a team enables Cal to stay in the Pac12 and collect the conference payout. Pretending to care to the right people, namely senile octogenarians with a lot of money keeps a few big checks rolling in. What happened to you was you don't give enough for them to care to lie to you. Hiring Wyking Jones and paying him beans made the strategy obvious. Too obvious. Mark Fox is here and is drastically overpaid because Fox was at least someone the octogenarians had heard of, and the salary makes it look like we may care. Cal thinks the extra money for Fox over Jones pays for itself by bamboozling a few poor old fools into keeping the checks coming.

I feel bad for players who have to be led to slaughter game in and game out so that Cal can get a few extra dollars, but I don't need to participate in the abuse.

Hey, you're Oaktownbear! On a different thread, pretty recently, people pointed out your on-the-money take about the Fox hire back when it initially happened. Great to see you back even though sorry to hear you're not engaged with the program anymore. Would you tune in again if Fox's replacement is a quality hire?
Golden One
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BeachedBear said:




JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports.
If Knowlton is focused on football, we're even more screwed than I originally thought.
calumnus
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KoreAmBear said:

bluesaxe said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I wonder if someone could explain to Mr. Knowlton that basketball should be a revenue sport and that it is, in fact, a revenue sport at a great number of schools. Perhaps people just assume that an AD would know something that obvious. The revelation might just shock him into action.
Whoever explains this to him, please also share with him that there is thing called the NCAA tournament in March.


He said he placed weight on Fox being "better prepared" for his interview after a year of being unemployed and prepped by his search firm than DeCuire was the Monday after returning from taking his team to the NCAA Tournament with no time to prepare.
Big C
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BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.

Wow, so the department's money is being spent on people to run interference on some of our few remaining knowledgeable and passionate fans, so that the Athletic Director can avoid talking to them. Wonderful. I'm filled with hope.
KoreAmBear
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calumnus said:

KoreAmBear said:

bluesaxe said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I wonder if someone could explain to Mr. Knowlton that basketball should be a revenue sport and that it is, in fact, a revenue sport at a great number of schools. Perhaps people just assume that an AD would know something that obvious. The revelation might just shock him into action.
Whoever explains this to him, please also share with him that there is thing called the NCAA tournament in March.


He said he placed weight on Fox being "better prepared" for his interview after a year of being unemployed and prepped by his search firm than DeCuire was the Monday after returning from taking his team to the NCAA Tournament with no time to prepare.
The interview should not be give so much weight anyway. Just do your DD and see the body of work. To base a high level D1 athletics coach employment decision on a 30 minute interview is just so dense.

Remember Wyking's first presser -- if you recall, we were gushing about how passionate he was, talking about going full 40 minutes of hell like the old Arkansas days. I distinctly remember someone say "how that's how you do a presser" lol.

Then when the actual season begin we realized having Don Coleman do that wasn't exactly Nolan Richardson's Arkansas full court press.

For a guy that comes from the culture of the AFA where you would think they are obsessed with details, this guy seems to blow off any kind of due diligence.

RayofLight
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BearlyCareAnymore said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I feel for you, but you have done the right thing. It is a painful process, but you've done the right thing. Haven't seen a game in 3 years. Barely saw any in the couple years before. Life without Cal sports is bliss. You are in a dysfunctional relationship. When you fully end it and put your energy and time into more positive pursuits, you will be a much happier person.

They are right. Basketball is a non-revenue sport for Cal. Cal doesn't make any money on it. Cal will never make money on it. Made money with Jason Kidd, but even if Cal could get those days back (it can't), circumstances have changed. Winning will not cure anything. The people that spent money in those days are dying off. Students don't care. Young alums don't care. Under 50's don't care. And they won't care even if we win. Therefore, Cal doesn't care, and one could argue they shouldn't. The community has spoken or rather has remained silent while Rome burned.

Cal basketball serves two purposes. Simply fielding a team enables Cal to stay in the Pac12 and collect the conference payout. Pretending to care to the right people, namely senile octogenarians with a lot of money keeps a few big checks rolling in. What happened to you was you don't give enough for them to care to lie to you. Hiring Wyking Jones and paying him beans made the strategy obvious. Too obvious. Mark Fox is here and is drastically overpaid because Fox was at least someone the octogenarians had heard of, and the salary makes it look like we may care. Cal thinks the extra money for Fox over Jones pays for itself by bamboozling a few poor old fools into keeping the checks coming.

I feel bad for players who have to be led to slaughter game in and game out so that Cal can get a few extra dollars, but I don't need to participate in the abuse.

People will not come to basketball if it continues to be paid programming with a side of sports, if students are not prioritized as a central part of the experience, and if big donors are all that matter. I don't blame Knowlton for this though, that has been the behavior of the Athletic Department for the past 10 years, he is just continuing that trend.

One can fix it, if they want to.
Spreading light and goodness,
Over all the West.
BearlyCareAnymore
How long do you want to ignore this user?
eastcoastcal said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I feel for you, but you have done the right thing. It is a painful process, but you've done the right thing. Haven't seen a game in 3 years. Barely saw any in the couple years before. Life without Cal sports is bliss. You are in a dysfunctional relationship. When you fully end it and put your energy and time into more positive pursuits, you will be a much happier person.

They are right. Basketball is a non-revenue sport for Cal. Cal doesn't make any money on it. Cal will never make money on it. Made money with Jason Kidd, but even if Cal could get those days back (it can't), circumstances have changed. Winning will not cure anything. The people that spent money in those days are dying off. Students don't care. Young alums don't care. Under 50's don't care. And they won't care even if we win. Therefore, Cal doesn't care, and one could argue they shouldn't. The community has spoken or rather has remained silent while Rome burned.

Cal basketball serves two purposes. Simply fielding a team enables Cal to stay in the Pac12 and collect the conference payout. Pretending to care to the right people, namely senile octogenarians with a lot of money keeps a few big checks rolling in. What happened to you was you don't give enough for them to care to lie to you. Hiring Wyking Jones and paying him beans made the strategy obvious. Too obvious. Mark Fox is here and is drastically overpaid because Fox was at least someone the octogenarians had heard of, and the salary makes it look like we may care. Cal thinks the extra money for Fox over Jones pays for itself by bamboozling a few poor old fools into keeping the checks coming.

I feel bad for players who have to be led to slaughter game in and game out so that Cal can get a few extra dollars, but I don't need to participate in the abuse.

Hey, you're Oaktownbear! On a different thread, pretty recently, people pointed out your on-the-money take about the Fox hire back when it initially happened. Great to see you back even though sorry to hear you're not engaged with the program anymore. Would you tune in again if Fox's replacement is a quality hire?
Correction. I was OaktownBear. That dude is gone. That dude started going to football games when he was 5 and showed up 4 hours before game time with a bunch of class reading to pass the time in his first game freshman year to make sure he got the exact seat in the rooting section he had always wanted. Love that dude. He has passed on.

I very occasionally pop in here to see how some of my ol' mates are doing because the state of things is that I care more about the community here than the underlying reason it came together. I will say east - I've seen your posts on occasion and I feel for you a little bit because you are 30 years too late here. Wish I could give you what I had - which was not necessarily winning but was a great experience. Then again, you still get to be part of a great school and a great community - just one that doesn't value sports like you. My advice to you would be to have a blast, win or lose.

Cal won't do what is necessary to bring me back, and you won't want them to. (yet. Give it 20 years). And that is to play schools who prioritize football and basketball in a similar fashion. People here are so wrapped up in national relevance that they miss that we aren't relevant in Berkeley. Games are no fun and nobody goes or cares. It's no fun to watch sports teams that have zero chance of ever competing over the course of a season. Nor is it fun to go to games that have been stripped of all tradition and fun because people thought that the payoff for allowing that was that we could be in a better position to compete.

And they won't make a quality hire as you want and even if they did, they won't provide the institutional support for that coach to succeed. I'm not bitter about that. I got to have the college experience I wanted, and I won't judge those that came after me for not wanting the same things I did. What I am bitter about is the disgraceful mismanagement that leads to the absolute gross negligence of extending Fox and Knowlton on the terms they did. (Wilcox's extension is merely negligence). As far as I'm concerned the coach next year should be Fox and it should be until his buyout expires. No one should pay one penny to bail them out of that decision. Fox should stay until they can fire him without any buyout. Nor will it make a difference. Cal's days as a basketball high major are done. Hell, this year if they dropped down to mid major, they'd still be winless. Cal should pay coaching salaries commensurate with being the mid major that it wants to be and quit the charade.
southseasbear
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BearlyCareAnymore said:

eastcoastcal said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I feel for you, but you have done the right thing. It is a painful process, but you've done the right thing. Haven't seen a game in 3 years. Barely saw any in the couple years before. Life without Cal sports is bliss. You are in a dysfunctional relationship. When you fully end it and put your energy and time into more positive pursuits, you will be a much happier person.

They are right. Basketball is a non-revenue sport for Cal. Cal doesn't make any money on it. Cal will never make money on it. Made money with Jason Kidd, but even if Cal could get those days back (it can't), circumstances have changed. Winning will not cure anything. The people that spent money in those days are dying off. Students don't care. Young alums don't care. Under 50's don't care. And they won't care even if we win. Therefore, Cal doesn't care, and one could argue they shouldn't. The community has spoken or rather has remained silent while Rome burned.

Cal basketball serves two purposes. Simply fielding a team enables Cal to stay in the Pac12 and collect the conference payout. Pretending to care to the right people, namely senile octogenarians with a lot of money keeps a few big checks rolling in. What happened to you was you don't give enough for them to care to lie to you. Hiring Wyking Jones and paying him beans made the strategy obvious. Too obvious. Mark Fox is here and is drastically overpaid because Fox was at least someone the octogenarians had heard of, and the salary makes it look like we may care. Cal thinks the extra money for Fox over Jones pays for itself by bamboozling a few poor old fools into keeping the checks coming.

I feel bad for players who have to be led to slaughter game in and game out so that Cal can get a few extra dollars, but I don't need to participate in the abuse.

Hey, you're Oaktownbear! On a different thread, pretty recently, people pointed out your on-the-money take about the Fox hire back when it initially happened. Great to see you back even though sorry to hear you're not engaged with the program anymore. Would you tune in again if Fox's replacement is a quality hire?
Correction. I was OaktownBear. That dude is gone. That dude started going to football games when he was 5 and showed up 4 hours before game time with a bunch of class reading to pass the time in his first game freshman year to make sure he got the exact seat in the rooting section he had always wanted. Love that dude. He has passed on.

I very occasionally pop in here to see how some of my ol' mates are doing because the state of things is that I care more about the community here than the underlying reason it came together. I will say east - I've seen your posts on occasion and I feel for you a little bit because you are 30 years too late here. Wish I could give you what I had - which was not necessarily winning but was a great experience. Then again, you still get to be part of a great school and a great community - just one that doesn't value sports like you. My advice to you would be to have a blast, win or lose.

Cal won't do what is necessary to bring me back, and you won't want them to. (yet. Give it 20 years). And that is to play schools who prioritize football and basketball in a similar fashion. People here are so wrapped up in national relevance that they miss that we aren't relevant in Berkeley. Games are no fun and nobody goes or cares. It's no fun to watch sports teams that have zero chance of ever competing over the course of a season. Nor is it fun to go to games that have been stripped of all tradition and fun because people thought that the payoff for allowing that was that we could be in a better position to compete.

And they won't make a quality hire as you want and even if they did, they won't provide the institutional support for that coach to succeed. I'm not bitter about that. I got to have the college experience I wanted, and I won't judge those that came after me for not wanting the same things I did. What I am bitter about is the disgraceful mismanagement that leads to the absolute gross negligence of extending Fox and Knowlton on the terms they did. (Wilcox's extension is merely negligence). As far as I'm concerned the coach next year should be Fox and it should be until his buyout expires. No one should pay one penny to bail them out of that decision. Fox should stay until they can fire him without any buyout. Nor will it make a difference. Cal's days as a basketball high major are done. Hell, this year if they dropped down to mid major, they'd still be winless. Cal should pay coaching salaries commensurate with being the mid major that it wants to be and quit the charade.
Excellent post which explains why I refuse to make any donation to the alma mater as long as they continue to squander the revenue they make.
Fire Knowlton!
Fire Fox!
Put Wilcox in a hot seat!
KoreAmBear
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Is that really you OTB? Well, I am just glad to hear from you in any capacity. Hope you are doing well, despite what's going on with Cal sports. I think we decided long ago it's probably healthier not to make Cal sports such a big deal in any respect (despite me still posting on BI). Really, there's a lot of life out there outside of Cal sports, which is really a good thing. Thank you Mr. Knowlton for driving that home!
Econ141
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southseasbear said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

eastcoastcal said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I feel for you, but you have done the right thing. It is a painful process, but you've done the right thing. Haven't seen a game in 3 years. Barely saw any in the couple years before. Life without Cal sports is bliss. You are in a dysfunctional relationship. When you fully end it and put your energy and time into more positive pursuits, you will be a much happier person.

They are right. Basketball is a non-revenue sport for Cal. Cal doesn't make any money on it. Cal will never make money on it. Made money with Jason Kidd, but even if Cal could get those days back (it can't), circumstances have changed. Winning will not cure anything. The people that spent money in those days are dying off. Students don't care. Young alums don't care. Under 50's don't care. And they won't care even if we win. Therefore, Cal doesn't care, and one could argue they shouldn't. The community has spoken or rather has remained silent while Rome burned.

Cal basketball serves two purposes. Simply fielding a team enables Cal to stay in the Pac12 and collect the conference payout. Pretending to care to the right people, namely senile octogenarians with a lot of money keeps a few big checks rolling in. What happened to you was you don't give enough for them to care to lie to you. Hiring Wyking Jones and paying him beans made the strategy obvious. Too obvious. Mark Fox is here and is drastically overpaid because Fox was at least someone the octogenarians had heard of, and the salary makes it look like we may care. Cal thinks the extra money for Fox over Jones pays for itself by bamboozling a few poor old fools into keeping the checks coming.

I feel bad for players who have to be led to slaughter game in and game out so that Cal can get a few extra dollars, but I don't need to participate in the abuse.

Hey, you're Oaktownbear! On a different thread, pretty recently, people pointed out your on-the-money take about the Fox hire back when it initially happened. Great to see you back even though sorry to hear you're not engaged with the program anymore. Would you tune in again if Fox's replacement is a quality hire?
Correction. I was OaktownBear. That dude is gone. That dude started going to football games when he was 5 and showed up 4 hours before game time with a bunch of class reading to pass the time in his first game freshman year to make sure he got the exact seat in the rooting section he had always wanted. Love that dude. He has passed on.

I very occasionally pop in here to see how some of my ol' mates are doing because the state of things is that I care more about the community here than the underlying reason it came together. I will say east - I've seen your posts on occasion and I feel for you a little bit because you are 30 years too late here. Wish I could give you what I had - which was not necessarily winning but was a great experience. Then again, you still get to be part of a great school and a great community - just one that doesn't value sports like you. My advice to you would be to have a blast, win or lose.

Cal won't do what is necessary to bring me back, and you won't want them to. (yet. Give it 20 years). And that is to play schools who prioritize football and basketball in a similar fashion. People here are so wrapped up in national relevance that they miss that we aren't relevant in Berkeley. Games are no fun and nobody goes or cares. It's no fun to watch sports teams that have zero chance of ever competing over the course of a season. Nor is it fun to go to games that have been stripped of all tradition and fun because people thought that the payoff for allowing that was that we could be in a better position to compete.

And they won't make a quality hire as you want and even if they did, they won't provide the institutional support for that coach to succeed. I'm not bitter about that. I got to have the college experience I wanted, and I won't judge those that came after me for not wanting the same things I did. What I am bitter about is the disgraceful mismanagement that leads to the absolute gross negligence of extending Fox and Knowlton on the terms they did. (Wilcox's extension is merely negligence). As far as I'm concerned the coach next year should be Fox and it should be until his buyout expires. No one should pay one penny to bail them out of that decision. Fox should stay until they can fire him without any buyout. Nor will it make a difference. Cal's days as a basketball high major are done. Hell, this year if they dropped down to mid major, they'd still be winless. Cal should pay coaching salaries commensurate with being the mid major that it wants to be and quit the charade.
Excellent post which explains why I refuse to make any donation to the alma mater as long as they continue to squander the revenue they make.


Yes well said. When we got wyking, I though - you get what you pay for. Now I realize we don't even get what we pay for. UCSD coach gets 85000/year and beat us.
Big C
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KoreAmBear said:

Is that really you OTB? Well, I am just glad to hear from you in any capacity. Hope you are doing well, despite what's going on with Cal sports. I think we decided long ago it's probably healthier not to make Cal sports such a big deal in any respect (despite me still posting on BI). Really, there's a lot of life out there outside of Cal sports, which is really a good thing. Thank you Mr. Knowlton for driving that home!

My God, it is him. I'm kind of feeling the blues creep in right now... Is it selfish of me to be jealous when I learn that someone else has found salvation?
TheFiatLux
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BearlyCareAnymore said:

eastcoastcal said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I feel for you, but you have done the right thing. It is a painful process, but you've done the right thing. Haven't seen a game in 3 years. Barely saw any in the couple years before. Life without Cal sports is bliss. You are in a dysfunctional relationship. When you fully end it and put your energy and time into more positive pursuits, you will be a much happier person.

They are right. Basketball is a non-revenue sport for Cal. Cal doesn't make any money on it. Cal will never make money on it. Made money with Jason Kidd, but even if Cal could get those days back (it can't), circumstances have changed. Winning will not cure anything. The people that spent money in those days are dying off. Students don't care. Young alums don't care. Under 50's don't care. And they won't care even if we win. Therefore, Cal doesn't care, and one could argue they shouldn't. The community has spoken or rather has remained silent while Rome burned.

Cal basketball serves two purposes. Simply fielding a team enables Cal to stay in the Pac12 and collect the conference payout. Pretending to care to the right people, namely senile octogenarians with a lot of money keeps a few big checks rolling in. What happened to you was you don't give enough for them to care to lie to you. Hiring Wyking Jones and paying him beans made the strategy obvious. Too obvious. Mark Fox is here and is drastically overpaid because Fox was at least someone the octogenarians had heard of, and the salary makes it look like we may care. Cal thinks the extra money for Fox over Jones pays for itself by bamboozling a few poor old fools into keeping the checks coming.

I feel bad for players who have to be led to slaughter game in and game out so that Cal can get a few extra dollars, but I don't need to participate in the abuse.

Hey, you're Oaktownbear! On a different thread, pretty recently, people pointed out your on-the-money take about the Fox hire back when it initially happened. Great to see you back even though sorry to hear you're not engaged with the program anymore. Would you tune in again if Fox's replacement is a quality hire?
Correction. I was OaktownBear. That dude is gone. That dude started going to football games when he was 5 and showed up 4 hours before game time with a bunch of class reading to pass the time in his first game freshman year to make sure he got the exact seat in the rooting section he had always wanted. Love that dude. He has passed on.

I very occasionally pop in here to see how some of my ol' mates are doing because the state of things is that I care more about the community here than the underlying reason it came together. I will say east - I've seen your posts on occasion and I feel for you a little bit because you are 30 years too late here. Wish I could give you what I had - which was not necessarily winning but was a great experience. Then again, you still get to be part of a great school and a great community - just one that doesn't value sports like you. My advice to you would be to have a blast, win or lose.

Cal won't do what is necessary to bring me back, and you won't want them to. (yet. Give it 20 years). And that is to play schools who prioritize football and basketball in a similar fashion. People here are so wrapped up in national relevance that they miss that we aren't relevant in Berkeley. Games are no fun and nobody goes or cares. It's no fun to watch sports teams that have zero chance of ever competing over the course of a season. Nor is it fun to go to games that have been stripped of all tradition and fun because people thought that the payoff for allowing that was that we could be in a better position to compete.

And they won't make a quality hire as you want and even if they did, they won't provide the institutional support for that coach to succeed. I'm not bitter about that. I got to have the college experience I wanted, and I won't judge those that came after me for not wanting the same things I did. What I am bitter about is the disgraceful mismanagement that leads to the absolute gross negligence of extending Fox and Knowlton on the terms they did. (Wilcox's extension is merely negligence). As far as I'm concerned the coach next year should be Fox and it should be until his buyout expires. No one should pay one penny to bail them out of that decision. Fox should stay until they can fire him without any buyout. Nor will it make a difference. Cal's days as a basketball high major are done. Hell, this year if they dropped down to mid major, they'd still be winless. Cal should pay coaching salaries commensurate with being the mid major that it wants to be and quit the charade.

There you are!!!! Tell the story about how you first met me (but I didn't meet you!)

I've sort of drifted to where you are now, but not quite so far. A few things:

Re hoops, it was only a few years ago we won every game at home and averaged over 10,000+ people a game. It was absolutely a revenue sports and has been for a while. There's no reason we can't get back to that. While not world beaters, up until Jones and the Fox debacle, we've been relatively relevant on the national scene for the better part of 30 years. Again, not world beaters, but certainly a part of the conversation going all the way back to when you and I were barely shaving. Think about that. That's a good run. I'd argue what we're experiencing now in hoops with the disastrous Fox situation is the anomaly, not us reverting back to the mean.

Also, while we all loved Harmon, I don't agree that Haas ruined or really even took down too much the gameday experience. When Haas has over 10,000 people it rocks. It looks great on TV (especially from the floor baseline shots). What screwed us is when they decided to completely destroy the student section. I've said this before, but not only did they remove 1/3 of the section so they could put in seat backs, they took out 1/2 of the remaining rows for ADA classification so they could free up the other ADA seats to sell... oh so clever (not). And also those awful entrances to the stupid east side club. So the east side student section now has only 1/3 the students in it that it used to.

For football, well I don't know. Can we replicate the Tedford years? Is an eight year stretch every few decades enough? It's hard to argue that football wasn't FUN from 2003 - 2010ish. Again, we had a four-year stretch where we averaged over 64K people a game. Over a 5 game stretch from 2006 UCLA through 2007 Tennessee we sold out 4 of those game... in the old 72,000 seat place. Even Dykes first year we were still getting big crowds. We're playing in a 1/2 Billion dollar facility. It's hard to argue we didn't commit resources.

You and I are cut from the same cloth when it comes to growing up with Cal. I made so many friends (including a life long best friend) waiting in line for hours to get into Harmon. It's hard for students of the last 25 years to believe this, but we used to do cheers at football games 1/2 hour before the game even started... I'd be warming up the crowd there were already so many students there. Times change. Some things are better, some were better.

But, like you, my interest level has cratered. Not only do I not care about hoops right now, when I do bother to think about it, it makes me clench in anger. Unlike you, I don't think it's actually that hard to fix. Like you, I just don't think we have the people in place to do it.

BeachedBear
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BearlyCareAnymore said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I feel for you, but you have done the right thing. It is a painful process, but you've done the right thing. Haven't seen a game in 3 years. Barely saw any in the couple years before. Life without Cal sports is bliss. You are in a dysfunctional relationship. When you fully end it and put your energy and time into more positive pursuits, you will be a much happier person.

They are right. Basketball is a non-revenue sport for Cal. Cal doesn't make any money on it. Cal will never make money on it. Made money with Jason Kidd, but even if Cal could get those days back (it can't), circumstances have changed. Winning will not cure anything. The people that spent money in those days are dying off. Students don't care. Young alums don't care. Under 50's don't care. And they won't care even if we win. Therefore, Cal doesn't care, and one could argue they shouldn't. The community has spoken or rather has remained silent while Rome burned.

Cal basketball serves two purposes. Simply fielding a team enables Cal to stay in the Pac12 and collect the conference payout. Pretending to care to the right people, namely senile octogenarians with a lot of money keeps a few big checks rolling in. What happened to you was you don't give enough for them to care to lie to you. Hiring Wyking Jones and paying him beans made the strategy obvious. Too obvious. Mark Fox is here and is drastically overpaid because Fox was at least someone the octogenarians had heard of, and the salary makes it look like we may care. Cal thinks the extra money for Fox over Jones pays for itself by bamboozling a few poor old fools into keeping the checks coming.

I feel bad for players who have to be led to slaughter game in and game out so that Cal can get a few extra dollars, but I don't need to participate in the abuse.

Thanks for checking back in BCA (fka OTB). Your dysfunctional relationship analogy is soooo spot on. I'm on BI for ****s and giggles - but saving money and time and angst breaking from Cal dysfunction. Over the last 20 years (especially last 10), the real telling thing for me was the inability to cajole friends (and former Cal fans) to even come watch a game with me - since the experience had become sooooo bad. They remember when it was about having fun at the experience. Sure, a bit of that is aging out - but the real stinger is watching the students and young alumni missing out on what we had.
oskidunker
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I care and will be there Wednesday. That being said, there is no way I will attend the Arizona game. No chance and 90% will be obnoxious Arizona fans
Go Bears!
bearister
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Now we (and Furd) are getting trashed in the Axios SF daily email:

"College basketball season is underway, and if you want to catch a game, look no further than our very own University of San Francisco men's team.

Catch up quick: Last year, USF made its first March Madness appearance since 1998, and the Dons are off to a strong start this season with a 6-1 record.

The intrigue: Whether USF reaches the NCAA tournament again, especially after the team's former head coach Todd Golden left to take the University of Florida job.

Meanwhile, Stanford and Cal men's basketball fans might consider hopping on the USF bandwagon since both teams are looking pretty stale this year.
If you do go to a game, here's how to fake it as true fan:

Top players: Khalil Shabazz, No. 0, is USF's top scorer so far this season, averaging 15 points per game. He considered entering the NBA draft or transferring to another school after last year, but ultimately decided to stay for his senior season.

Tyrell Roberts, No. 1, transferred from Washington State and is now the team's second leading scorer.

The lingo: Technically, USF plays at the War Memorial Gymnasium, but it's better known as "The Hilltop" since it's situated at the top of Lone Mountain.

Their mascot, a "don," is a reference to Spanish nobility.

Bill Russell connection: The late, great Bill Russell played college ball at USF, where he helped the Dons capture NCAA titles in 1955 and 1956.

But the 11-time NBA champion had a strained relationship with his alma mater that wasn't resolved before he died in July."
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
stu
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It's still possible to watch exciting, well played, and often winning Cal basketball. Just come to a women's game.

Right now they're 5 and 1, having lost only to top-ten Notre Dame on the road by 11. Solid talent, depth, experience, and coaching.
BearlyCareAnymore
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TheFiatLux said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

eastcoastcal said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I feel for you, but you have done the right thing. It is a painful process, but you've done the right thing. Haven't seen a game in 3 years. Barely saw any in the couple years before. Life without Cal sports is bliss. You are in a dysfunctional relationship. When you fully end it and put your energy and time into more positive pursuits, you will be a much happier person.

They are right. Basketball is a non-revenue sport for Cal. Cal doesn't make any money on it. Cal will never make money on it. Made money with Jason Kidd, but even if Cal could get those days back (it can't), circumstances have changed. Winning will not cure anything. The people that spent money in those days are dying off. Students don't care. Young alums don't care. Under 50's don't care. And they won't care even if we win. Therefore, Cal doesn't care, and one could argue they shouldn't. The community has spoken or rather has remained silent while Rome burned.

Cal basketball serves two purposes. Simply fielding a team enables Cal to stay in the Pac12 and collect the conference payout. Pretending to care to the right people, namely senile octogenarians with a lot of money keeps a few big checks rolling in. What happened to you was you don't give enough for them to care to lie to you. Hiring Wyking Jones and paying him beans made the strategy obvious. Too obvious. Mark Fox is here and is drastically overpaid because Fox was at least someone the octogenarians had heard of, and the salary makes it look like we may care. Cal thinks the extra money for Fox over Jones pays for itself by bamboozling a few poor old fools into keeping the checks coming.

I feel bad for players who have to be led to slaughter game in and game out so that Cal can get a few extra dollars, but I don't need to participate in the abuse.

Hey, you're Oaktownbear! On a different thread, pretty recently, people pointed out your on-the-money take about the Fox hire back when it initially happened. Great to see you back even though sorry to hear you're not engaged with the program anymore. Would you tune in again if Fox's replacement is a quality hire?
Correction. I was OaktownBear. That dude is gone. That dude started going to football games when he was 5 and showed up 4 hours before game time with a bunch of class reading to pass the time in his first game freshman year to make sure he got the exact seat in the rooting section he had always wanted. Love that dude. He has passed on.

I very occasionally pop in here to see how some of my ol' mates are doing because the state of things is that I care more about the community here than the underlying reason it came together. I will say east - I've seen your posts on occasion and I feel for you a little bit because you are 30 years too late here. Wish I could give you what I had - which was not necessarily winning but was a great experience. Then again, you still get to be part of a great school and a great community - just one that doesn't value sports like you. My advice to you would be to have a blast, win or lose.

Cal won't do what is necessary to bring me back, and you won't want them to. (yet. Give it 20 years). And that is to play schools who prioritize football and basketball in a similar fashion. People here are so wrapped up in national relevance that they miss that we aren't relevant in Berkeley. Games are no fun and nobody goes or cares. It's no fun to watch sports teams that have zero chance of ever competing over the course of a season. Nor is it fun to go to games that have been stripped of all tradition and fun because people thought that the payoff for allowing that was that we could be in a better position to compete.

And they won't make a quality hire as you want and even if they did, they won't provide the institutional support for that coach to succeed. I'm not bitter about that. I got to have the college experience I wanted, and I won't judge those that came after me for not wanting the same things I did. What I am bitter about is the disgraceful mismanagement that leads to the absolute gross negligence of extending Fox and Knowlton on the terms they did. (Wilcox's extension is merely negligence). As far as I'm concerned the coach next year should be Fox and it should be until his buyout expires. No one should pay one penny to bail them out of that decision. Fox should stay until they can fire him without any buyout. Nor will it make a difference. Cal's days as a basketball high major are done. Hell, this year if they dropped down to mid major, they'd still be winless. Cal should pay coaching salaries commensurate with being the mid major that it wants to be and quit the charade.

There you are!!!! Tell the story about how you first met me (but I didn't meet you!)

I've sort of drifted to where you are now, but not quite so far. A few things:

Re hoops, it was only a few years ago we won every game at home and averaged over 10,000+ people a game. It was absolutely a revenue sports and has been for a while. There's no reason we can't get back to that. While not world beaters, up until Jones and the Fox debacle, we've been relatively relevant on the national scene for the better part of 30 years. Again, not world beaters, but certainly a part of the conversation going all the way back to when you and I were barely shaving. Think about that. That's a good run. I'd argue what we're experiencing now in hoops with the disastrous Fox situation is the anomaly, not us reverting back to the mean.

Also, while we all loved Harmon, I don't agree that Haas ruined or really even took down too much the gameday experience. When Haas has over 10,000 people it rocks. It looks great on TV (especially from the floor baseline shots). What screwed us is when they decided to completely destroy the student section. I've said this before, but not only did they remove 1/3 of the section so they could put in seat backs, they took out 1/2 of the remaining rows for ADA classification so they could free up the other ADA seats to sell... oh so clever (not). And also those awful entrances to the stupid east side club. So the east side student section now has only 1/3 the students in it that it used to.

For football, well I don't know. Can we replicate the Tedford years? Is an eight year stretch every few decades enough? It's hard to argue that football wasn't FUN from 2003 - 2010ish. Again, we had a four-year stretch where we averaged over 64K people a game. Over a 5 game stretch from 2006 UCLA through 2007 Tennessee we sold out 4 of those game... in the old 72,000 seat place. Even Dykes first year we were still getting big crowds. We're playing in a 1/2 Billion dollar facility. It's hard to argue we didn't commit resources.

You and I are cut from the same cloth when it comes to growing up with Cal. I made so many friends (including a life long best friend) waiting in line for hours to get into Harmon. It's hard for students of the last 25 years to believe this, but we used to do cheers at football games 1/2 hour before the game even started... I'd be warming up the crowd there were already so many students there. Times change. Some things are better, some were better.

But, like you, my interest level has cratered. Not only do I not care about hoops right now, when I do bother to think about it, it makes me clench in anger. Unlike you, I don't think it's actually that hard to fix. Like you, I just don't think we have the people in place to do it.


Good to hear from you, Ken. You are one of the people I have felt for in particular given how much you have put into the program. I've seen some of your posts as I've popped in and out. I think you and I are pretty close in our positions about where Cal is. I think we depart in where we can go (or are likely to).

First, let's be clear. Cal massively mismanages its athletic department. Nothing I'm going to say is meant to excuse that. The Fox regime was predictable and a drastic overpay.

I would agree with all of your arguments if it were 2012. I fought my whole life against the notion that Cal can't compete. I believe we could have competed. I actually think there was a moment where we almost got over the hump in football and created a sustaining program. It's not that I've changed my mind about that. It is that I believe circumstances have changed.

The first point that overarches the whole thing. To people who say that winning solves everything. In college, winning programs don't make money because they win. They win because they have money. (See Oregon and Phil Knight) If Alabama loses, their fans dump money into the program. If Cal loses, the much smaller fan base they have leaves. The Cal community, the school, the students, the alums have never prioritized football and basketball to the extent many other schools do, and that disparity is only getting worse. Cal sports have to break even or come darned close to it, and quite simply we are fighting against a group of schools that make a ton of cash and an even larger group that will chuck a ton of cash at a loss to compete in sports. In the old days, NCAA restrictions kept things not even, but in the ballpark of even. Donors could only chuck money at facilities. Those restrictions are largely gone and we simply do not have the fan numbers, fan loyalty, or donor dollars to compete in what is basically now an unfettered marketplace.

New headwind #1 Interest in college sports is cratering in a lot of places, but especially the west. Forget Cal. Attendance at UCLA football games is half what it was less than 10 years ago and is significantly down this year even with more success than they have had in years. No one on campus cares about it. Their storied basketball program maintains a following, but their athletic department is in deep financial trouble. Cal has been slammed by the same trends.

"New" headwind #2 Students are different. Students at elite colleges, and frankly at a lot of less elite colleges, spend less time on social activities than in the past. With the expense, a lot of kids are trying to get out as quickly as they can, some coming in with a pile of AP credits and trying to graduate early. They are competing with their classmates for graduate school, internships, and jobs. They aren't reliving Animal House. Now, if you are Michigan, where THE social activity in the fall is football, you are fine. If you are Cal, you ain't. The interest level has cratered among students, but that has been happening for a long time and you don't have young alumni interest either.

New headwind #3 NIL. I can't believe people didn't see this coming. We don't have the alumni money to compete in this area. Those that think we can are just in fantasy land. No cavalry is coming. Yes, I know. We have alums with tons of money. That isn't the question. We don't have alums willing to spend that money on this. Winning will not create that base. If those rich alums cared, they'd be buying the best basketball team they can right now. Bottom line is that there are probably at least 50 schools that offer a better deal to revenue athletes right now. Even when Cal increases its commitment, it is always a day late and a dollar short.

New headwind #4 Player mobility. Quite simply, players don't have the school allegiance they used to and the new rules make it easy to change programs. We need to re-recruit anyone who excels every year, and again, there are probably at least 50 schools that offer a better deal to revenue athletes right now.

Predictable headwind #5 the big sports donors are aging out and they aren't being replaced. A lot of the big donors remember the days when Cal was a sports power, and frankly, that group is starting to look like a WWII reunion. Big donors who experienced basketball championships and a Rose Bowl at Cal were 70 in the height of Tedford are approaching mid 80's now. This is a huge problem Cal has known about for a long time but has not made significant progress in. On top of that, a lot of our donors prefer to donate to non-revenue sports.

These aren't things that we can just do something about. We are who we are. College Prep in Oakland is not going to compete with De La Salle in football. That is due to priorities, not resources. If most of the Cal community woke up tomorrow deciding that football and basketball are top priority, we would kick ass. It's not going to happen.

Look, the Cal administration has been telling us this with their actions for a while now, and they are starting to tell us this in actual words, especially with respect to NIL. I stand by my assertion that they are doing the minimum necessary to keep the old donors on the hook as long as they can. In the end, the Pac-12 is in for a big pay cut, and our donor base and fan base is shrinking in a way that winning will not solve. The money is drying up and sooner or later things are going to change.

As for the fan base, look at this place. Guys that were here for 15 or 20 years are gone. A lot who are still around are here to complain. There was a long line of less interested fans than I am who jumped before I ever would have. If they lost me, they are doomed. If they lost Ken Montgomery, geez, is anyone left? There are so many former posters I could never imagined jumping ship. Frankly, I think most that are left are there out of habit.

For me, football and basketball have made the full transition to being an overpaid Triple A league. Paying top dollar for bad football and basketball doesn't interest me. And I will tell you that doing college visits with my kids and further research afterward was an eye opener. Many of them do care about sports and students do attend with a lot of school spirit. They just don't care that they aren't "nationally relevant". Personally, if I have a choice between playing UC Davis and maybe winning while getting rid of all the baggage the dollars bring with them, or fielding a body bag program who we send out to get their asses handed to them by Oregon, so we can fund field hockey, I choose playing Davis. Believe me, I would love a third option, but I don't see it.

SJSU used to have body bag games against Nebraska to fund their football program. We have whole body bag sports to fund the rest of the athletic department. I can't argue with the financial strategy, but I don't have to be a part of it.
BearlyCareAnymore
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TheFiatLux said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

eastcoastcal said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I feel for you, but you have done the right thing. It is a painful process, but you've done the right thing. Haven't seen a game in 3 years. Barely saw any in the couple years before. Life without Cal sports is bliss. You are in a dysfunctional relationship. When you fully end it and put your energy and time into more positive pursuits, you will be a much happier person.

They are right. Basketball is a non-revenue sport for Cal. Cal doesn't make any money on it. Cal will never make money on it. Made money with Jason Kidd, but even if Cal could get those days back (it can't), circumstances have changed. Winning will not cure anything. The people that spent money in those days are dying off. Students don't care. Young alums don't care. Under 50's don't care. And they won't care even if we win. Therefore, Cal doesn't care, and one could argue they shouldn't. The community has spoken or rather has remained silent while Rome burned.

Cal basketball serves two purposes. Simply fielding a team enables Cal to stay in the Pac12 and collect the conference payout. Pretending to care to the right people, namely senile octogenarians with a lot of money keeps a few big checks rolling in. What happened to you was you don't give enough for them to care to lie to you. Hiring Wyking Jones and paying him beans made the strategy obvious. Too obvious. Mark Fox is here and is drastically overpaid because Fox was at least someone the octogenarians had heard of, and the salary makes it look like we may care. Cal thinks the extra money for Fox over Jones pays for itself by bamboozling a few poor old fools into keeping the checks coming.

I feel bad for players who have to be led to slaughter game in and game out so that Cal can get a few extra dollars, but I don't need to participate in the abuse.

Hey, you're Oaktownbear! On a different thread, pretty recently, people pointed out your on-the-money take about the Fox hire back when it initially happened. Great to see you back even though sorry to hear you're not engaged with the program anymore. Would you tune in again if Fox's replacement is a quality hire?
Correction. I was OaktownBear. That dude is gone. That dude started going to football games when he was 5 and showed up 4 hours before game time with a bunch of class reading to pass the time in his first game freshman year to make sure he got the exact seat in the rooting section he had always wanted. Love that dude. He has passed on.

I very occasionally pop in here to see how some of my ol' mates are doing because the state of things is that I care more about the community here than the underlying reason it came together. I will say east - I've seen your posts on occasion and I feel for you a little bit because you are 30 years too late here. Wish I could give you what I had - which was not necessarily winning but was a great experience. Then again, you still get to be part of a great school and a great community - just one that doesn't value sports like you. My advice to you would be to have a blast, win or lose.

Cal won't do what is necessary to bring me back, and you won't want them to. (yet. Give it 20 years). And that is to play schools who prioritize football and basketball in a similar fashion. People here are so wrapped up in national relevance that they miss that we aren't relevant in Berkeley. Games are no fun and nobody goes or cares. It's no fun to watch sports teams that have zero chance of ever competing over the course of a season. Nor is it fun to go to games that have been stripped of all tradition and fun because people thought that the payoff for allowing that was that we could be in a better position to compete.

And they won't make a quality hire as you want and even if they did, they won't provide the institutional support for that coach to succeed. I'm not bitter about that. I got to have the college experience I wanted, and I won't judge those that came after me for not wanting the same things I did. What I am bitter about is the disgraceful mismanagement that leads to the absolute gross negligence of extending Fox and Knowlton on the terms they did. (Wilcox's extension is merely negligence). As far as I'm concerned the coach next year should be Fox and it should be until his buyout expires. No one should pay one penny to bail them out of that decision. Fox should stay until they can fire him without any buyout. Nor will it make a difference. Cal's days as a basketball high major are done. Hell, this year if they dropped down to mid major, they'd still be winless. Cal should pay coaching salaries commensurate with being the mid major that it wants to be and quit the charade.
Some specific comments:

There you are!!!! Tell the story about how you first met me (but I didn't meet you!)

I've sort of drifted to where you are now, but not quite so far. A few things:

Re hoops, it was only a few years ago we won every game at home and averaged over 10,000+ people a game. It was absolutely a revenue sports and has been for a while. There's no reason we can't get back to that. While not world beaters, up until Jones and the Fox debacle, we've been relatively relevant on the national scene for the better part of 30 years. Again, not world beaters, but certainly a part of the conversation going all the way back to when you and I were barely shaving. Think about that. That's a good run. I'd argue what we're experiencing now in hoops with the disastrous Fox situation is the anomaly, not us reverting back to the mean.

I don't see what is going on now as reverting to the mean. Our mean used to be better. I see it as the new normal. Well, Wilcox is the new normal. Fox is ridiculous.

But as for basketball being a revenue sport, of course it is. I was being flip. But that isn't the point. The revenue in basketball comes from fielding a team, not in winning. The money comes from its share of the conference payout and the overall endorsement contracts. The marginal increase in actually winning is not there. The revenue from excess ticket sales from winning just doesn't drive the bus and pretty much will get eaten up by paying the coaches salaries needed to win. You can see the numbers in ticket revenue from winning and losing year to year. It doesn't go up that much. Largely, I would speculate, because those excess tickets are to cheap seats. Chairbacks always have been a charity, costing way more than market rate and being much less elastic than the rafters. So when I say basketball isn't a revenue sport for Cal, I mean investing in winning does not pay off. Maybe it did 30 years ago before the TV money was so huge and tied to the conference, but it just doesn't now. I'm basing that on looking at ticket revenue numbers that Cal reports on its balance sheets


Also, while we all loved Harmon, I don't agree that Haas ruined or really even took down too much the gameday experience. When Haas has over 10,000 people it rocks. It looks great on TV (especially from the floor baseline shots). What screwed us is when they decided to completely destroy the student section. I've said this before, but not only did they remove 1/3 of the section so they could put in seat backs, they took out 1/2 of the remaining rows for ADA classification so they could free up the other ADA seats to sell... oh so clever (not). And also those awful entrances to the stupid east side club. So the east side student section now has only 1/3 the students in it that it used to.

My cryptic comment was not about Haas. We needed to upgrade Harmon and of course we were going to lose something there, but Haas was still great. I was actually talking about similar things to what you mentioned, but across both basketball and football. Overmanaging the seating, jerking the students around, choosing everything that they thought could bring in a short term buck over anything that was tradition or kept Cal a quirky, fun experience. In our day, the athletic department made up in part for its total incompetence by combining it with complete inattention. At least that way, games were organically fun. Then they found they could make some money and the games felt more like being fitted for a straight jacket, chained to your seat, and forced to watch ads while they picked your pocket. Once the incompetents started paying attention to the game experience, they actively screwed it up.

For football, well I don't know. Can we replicate the Tedford years? Is an eight year stretch every few decades enough? It's hard to argue that football wasn't FUN from 2003 - 2010ish. Again, we had a four-year stretch where we averaged over 64K people a game. Over a 5 game stretch from 2006 UCLA through 2007 Tennessee we sold out 4 of those game... in the old 72,000 seat place. Even Dykes first year we were still getting big crowds. We're playing in a 1/2 Billion dollar facility. It's hard to argue we didn't commit resources.

I know how the crowds were under Tedford. I know what they used to be in basketball. Things have changed so much since then and our losing and mismanagement are obscuring the headwinds Cal faces. And so you understand where I'm coming from, I think Stanford is likely in a similar situation. And I will argue we didn't commit half a billion in resources. First of all, remember when the stadium project was being debated? They claimed it wasn't going to cost the university anything. It was supposed to be entirely funded by donations, basically a PSL scheme, and creative financing. The donations weren't what they claimed, the PSL scheme was as successful as the Raiders, and the creative financing turned out to be only slightly better than taking the donor money to Vegas. Oh, we spent the resources. Not sure we intentionally committed them. But even if we did commit those resources, we immediately followed up with making our players take buses and deciding that paying an assistant coach that had the future of our program in his hands was not worth it. (we'll never know, but that might have been the tipping point decision for football )

You and I are cut from the same cloth when it comes to growing up with Cal. I made so many friends (including a life long best friend) waiting in line for hours to get into Harmon. It's hard for students of the last 25 years to believe this, but we used to do cheers at football games 1/2 hour before the game even started... I'd be warming up the crowd there were already so many students there. Times change. Some things are better, some were better.

But, like you, my interest level has cratered. Not only do I not care about hoops right now, when I do bother to think about it, it makes me clench in anger. Unlike you, I don't think it's actually that hard to fix. Like you, I just don't think we have the people in place to do it.


BearlyCareAnymore
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I have been to women's basketball games, and it is much closer to the atmosphere that used to be men's basketball if they could just get more fans to the games.
Chapman_is_Gone
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stu said:

It's still possible to watch exciting, well played, and often winning Cal basketball. Just come to a women's game.

Right now they're 5 and 1, having lost only to top-ten Notre Dame on the road by 11. Solid talent, depth, experience, and coaching.

There's no need to try to recruit for women's basketball. All of us, as huge sports fans, have given it a fair shot over the years. Some like women's basketball. Some, like me, would rather do just about anything else than go to a women's basketball game.
calumnus
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bearister said:

Now we (and Furd) are getting trashed in the Axios SF daily email:

"College basketball season is underway, and if you want to catch a game, look no further than our very own University of San Francisco men's team.

Catch up quick: Last year, USF made its first March Madness appearance since 1998, and the Dons are off to a strong start this season with a 6-1 record.

The intrigue: Whether USF reaches the NCAA tournament again, especially after the team's former head coach Todd Golden left to take the University of Florida job.

Meanwhile, Stanford and Cal men's basketball fans might consider hopping on the USF bandwagon since both teams are looking pretty stale this year.
If you do go to a game, here's how to fake it as true fan:

Top players: Khalil Shabazz, No. 0, is USF's top scorer so far this season, averaging 15 points per game. He considered entering the NBA draft or transferring to another school after last year, but ultimately decided to stay for his senior season.

Tyrell Roberts, No. 1, transferred from Washington State and is now the team's second leading scorer.

The lingo: Technically, USF plays at the War Memorial Gymnasium, but it's better known as "The Hilltop" since it's situated at the top of Lone Mountain.

Their mascot, a "don," is a reference to Spanish nobility.

Bill Russell connection: The late, great Bill Russell played college ball at USF, where he helped the Dons capture NCAA titles in 1955 and 1956.

But the 11-time NBA champion had a strained relationship with his alma mater that wasn't resolved before he died in July."


Reports that the University of San Francisco has a good team (Top 20 in Ken Pom) must be fake news. They have no dedicated practice facility other than the gym they play in. And according to Fox News and Newsmax, San Francisco is a cease-pool with feces everywhere, only homeless drug addicts live there now.

And USF went to the NCAA Tournament last year? Impossible, no team could succeed with looney-liberal City of San Francisco's implementation of California's COVID policies. They must be confused with the USF in South Florida, because it would be easier to win in Berkeley than San Francisco and I'm assured it is impossible to win in Berkeley.
Cal8285
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BearlyCareAnymore said:

TheFiatLux said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

eastcoastcal said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I feel for you, but you have done the right thing. It is a painful process, but you've done the right thing. Haven't seen a game in 3 years. Barely saw any in the couple years before. Life without Cal sports is bliss. You are in a dysfunctional relationship. When you fully end it and put your energy and time into more positive pursuits, you will be a much happier person.

They are right. Basketball is a non-revenue sport for Cal. Cal doesn't make any money on it. Cal will never make money on it. Made money with Jason Kidd, but even if Cal could get those days back (it can't), circumstances have changed. Winning will not cure anything. The people that spent money in those days are dying off. Students don't care. Young alums don't care. Under 50's don't care. And they won't care even if we win. Therefore, Cal doesn't care, and one could argue they shouldn't. The community has spoken or rather has remained silent while Rome burned.

Cal basketball serves two purposes. Simply fielding a team enables Cal to stay in the Pac12 and collect the conference payout. Pretending to care to the right people, namely senile octogenarians with a lot of money keeps a few big checks rolling in. What happened to you was you don't give enough for them to care to lie to you. Hiring Wyking Jones and paying him beans made the strategy obvious. Too obvious. Mark Fox is here and is drastically overpaid because Fox was at least someone the octogenarians had heard of, and the salary makes it look like we may care. Cal thinks the extra money for Fox over Jones pays for itself by bamboozling a few poor old fools into keeping the checks coming.

I feel bad for players who have to be led to slaughter game in and game out so that Cal can get a few extra dollars, but I don't need to participate in the abuse.

Hey, you're Oaktownbear! On a different thread, pretty recently, people pointed out your on-the-money take about the Fox hire back when it initially happened. Great to see you back even though sorry to hear you're not engaged with the program anymore. Would you tune in again if Fox's replacement is a quality hire?
Correction. I was OaktownBear. That dude is gone. That dude started going to football games when he was 5 and showed up 4 hours before game time with a bunch of class reading to pass the time in his first game freshman year to make sure he got the exact seat in the rooting section he had always wanted. Love that dude. He has passed on.

I very occasionally pop in here to see how some of my ol' mates are doing because the state of things is that I care more about the community here than the underlying reason it came together. I will say east - I've seen your posts on occasion and I feel for you a little bit because you are 30 years too late here. Wish I could give you what I had - which was not necessarily winning but was a great experience. Then again, you still get to be part of a great school and a great community - just one that doesn't value sports like you. My advice to you would be to have a blast, win or lose.

Cal won't do what is necessary to bring me back, and you won't want them to. (yet. Give it 20 years). And that is to play schools who prioritize football and basketball in a similar fashion. People here are so wrapped up in national relevance that they miss that we aren't relevant in Berkeley. Games are no fun and nobody goes or cares. It's no fun to watch sports teams that have zero chance of ever competing over the course of a season. Nor is it fun to go to games that have been stripped of all tradition and fun because people thought that the payoff for allowing that was that we could be in a better position to compete.

And they won't make a quality hire as you want and even if they did, they won't provide the institutional support for that coach to succeed. I'm not bitter about that. I got to have the college experience I wanted, and I won't judge those that came after me for not wanting the same things I did. What I am bitter about is the disgraceful mismanagement that leads to the absolute gross negligence of extending Fox and Knowlton on the terms they did. (Wilcox's extension is merely negligence). As far as I'm concerned the coach next year should be Fox and it should be until his buyout expires. No one should pay one penny to bail them out of that decision. Fox should stay until they can fire him without any buyout. Nor will it make a difference. Cal's days as a basketball high major are done. Hell, this year if they dropped down to mid major, they'd still be winless. Cal should pay coaching salaries commensurate with being the mid major that it wants to be and quit the charade.

There you are!!!! Tell the story about how you first met me (but I didn't meet you!)

I've sort of drifted to where you are now, but not quite so far. A few things:

Re hoops, it was only a few years ago we won every game at home and averaged over 10,000+ people a game. It was absolutely a revenue sports and has been for a while. There's no reason we can't get back to that. While not world beaters, up until Jones and the Fox debacle, we've been relatively relevant on the national scene for the better part of 30 years. Again, not world beaters, but certainly a part of the conversation going all the way back to when you and I were barely shaving. Think about that. That's a good run. I'd argue what we're experiencing now in hoops with the disastrous Fox situation is the anomaly, not us reverting back to the mean.

Also, while we all loved Harmon, I don't agree that Haas ruined or really even took down too much the gameday experience. When Haas has over 10,000 people it rocks. It looks great on TV (especially from the floor baseline shots). What screwed us is when they decided to completely destroy the student section. I've said this before, but not only did they remove 1/3 of the section so they could put in seat backs, they took out 1/2 of the remaining rows for ADA classification so they could free up the other ADA seats to sell... oh so clever (not). And also those awful entrances to the stupid east side club. So the east side student section now has only 1/3 the students in it that it used to.

For football, well I don't know. Can we replicate the Tedford years? Is an eight year stretch every few decades enough? It's hard to argue that football wasn't FUN from 2003 - 2010ish. Again, we had a four-year stretch where we averaged over 64K people a game. Over a 5 game stretch from 2006 UCLA through 2007 Tennessee we sold out 4 of those game... in the old 72,000 seat place. Even Dykes first year we were still getting big crowds. We're playing in a 1/2 Billion dollar facility. It's hard to argue we didn't commit resources.

You and I are cut from the same cloth when it comes to growing up with Cal. I made so many friends (including a life long best friend) waiting in line for hours to get into Harmon. It's hard for students of the last 25 years to believe this, but we used to do cheers at football games 1/2 hour before the game even started... I'd be warming up the crowd there were already so many students there. Times change. Some things are better, some were better.

But, like you, my interest level has cratered. Not only do I not care about hoops right now, when I do bother to think about it, it makes me clench in anger. Unlike you, I don't think it's actually that hard to fix. Like you, I just don't think we have the people in place to do it.


Good to hear from you, Ken. You are one of the people I have felt for in particular given how much you have put into the program. I've seen some of your posts as I've popped in and out. I think you and I are pretty close in our positions about where Cal is. I think we depart in where we can go (or are likely to).

First, let's be clear. Cal massively mismanages its athletic department. Nothing I'm going to say is meant to excuse that. The Fox regime was predictable and a drastic overpay.

I would agree with all of your arguments if it were 2012. I fought my whole life against the notion that Cal can't compete. I believe we could have competed. I actually think there was a moment where we almost got over the hump in football and created a sustaining program. It's not that I've changed my mind about that. It is that I believe circumstances have changed.

The first point that overarches the whole thing. To people who say that winning solves everything. In college, winning programs don't make money because they win. They win because they have money. (See Oregon and Phil Knight) If Alabama loses, their fans dump money into the program. If Cal loses, the much smaller fan base they have leaves. The Cal community, the school, the students, the alums have never prioritized football and basketball to the extent many other schools do, and that disparity is only getting worse. Cal sports have to break even or come darned close to it, and quite simply we are fighting against a group of schools that make a ton of cash and an even larger group that will chuck a ton of cash at a loss to compete in sports. In the old days, NCAA restrictions kept things not even, but in the ballpark of even. Donors could only chuck money at facilities. Those restrictions are largely gone and we simply do not have the fan numbers, fan loyalty, or donor dollars to compete in what is basically now an unfettered marketplace.

New headwind #1 Interest in college sports is cratering in a lot of places, but especially the west. Forget Cal. Attendance at UCLA football games is half what it was less than 10 years ago and is significantly down this year even with more success than they have had in years. No one on campus cares about it. Their storied basketball program maintains a following, but their athletic department is in deep financial trouble. Cal has been slammed by the same trends.

"New" headwind #2 Students are different. Students at elite colleges, and frankly at a lot of less elite colleges, spend less time on social activities than in the past. With the expense, a lot of kids are trying to get out as quickly as they can, some coming in with a pile of AP credits and trying to graduate early. They are competing with their classmates for graduate school, internships, and jobs. They aren't reliving Animal House. Now, if you are Michigan, where THE social activity in the fall is football, you are fine. If you are Cal, you ain't. The interest level has cratered among students, but that has been happening for a long time and you don't have young alumni interest either.

New headwind #3 NIL. I can't believe people didn't see this coming. We don't have the alumni money to compete in this area. Those that think we can are just in fantasy land. No cavalry is coming. Yes, I know. We have alums with tons of money. That isn't the question. We don't have alums willing to spend that money on this. Winning will not create that base. If those rich alums cared, they'd be buying the best basketball team they can right now. Bottom line is that there are probably at least 50 schools that offer a better deal to revenue athletes right now. Even when Cal increases its commitment, it is always a day late and a dollar short.

New headwind #4 Player mobility. Quite simply, players don't have the school allegiance they used to and the new rules make it easy to change programs. We need to re-recruit anyone who excels every year, and again, there are probably at least 50 schools that offer a better deal to revenue athletes right now.

Predictable headwind #5 the big sports donors are aging out and they aren't being replaced. A lot of the big donors remember the days when Cal was a sports power, and frankly, that group is starting to look like a WWII reunion. Big donors who experienced basketball championships and a Rose Bowl at Cal were 70 in the height of Tedford are approaching mid 80's now. This is a huge problem Cal has known about for a long time but has not made significant progress in. On top of that, a lot of our donors prefer to donate to non-revenue sports.

These aren't things that we can just do something about. We are who we are. College Prep in Oakland is not going to compete with De La Salle in football. That is due to priorities, not resources. If most of the Cal community woke up tomorrow deciding that football and basketball are top priority, we would kick ass. It's not going to happen.

Look, the Cal administration has been telling us this with their actions for a while now, and they are starting to tell us this in actual words, especially with respect to NIL. I stand by my assertion that they are doing the minimum necessary to keep the old donors on the hook as long as they can. In the end, the Pac-12 is in for a big pay cut, and our donor base and fan base is shrinking in a way that winning will not solve. The money is drying up and sooner or later things are going to change.

As for the fan base, look at this place. Guys that were here for 15 or 20 years are gone. A lot who are still around are here to complain. There was a long line of less interested fans than I am who jumped before I ever would have. If they lost me, they are doomed. If they lost Ken Montgomery, geez, is anyone left? There are so many former posters I could never imagined jumping ship. Frankly, I think most that are left are there out of habit.

For me, football and basketball have made the full transition to being an overpaid Triple A league. Paying top dollar for bad football and basketball doesn't interest me. And I will tell you that doing college visits with my kids and further research afterward was an eye opener. Many of them do care about sports and students do attend with a lot of school spirit. They just don't care that they aren't "nationally relevant". Personally, if I have a choice between playing UC Davis and maybe winning while getting rid of all the baggage the dollars bring with them, or fielding a body bag program who we send out to get their asses handed to them by Oregon, so we can fund field hockey, I choose playing Davis. Believe me, I would love a third option, but I don't see it.

SJSU used to have body bag games against Nebraska to fund their football program. We have whole body bag sports to fund the rest of the athletic department. I can't argue with the financial strategy, but I don't have to be a part of it.
Minor disagreement with an earlier post, Wilcox's lengthy extension with full buyout was gross negligence, Fox's one year extension (based on all Cal coaches getting a one year COVID extension) was mere negligence.

Hiring Fox in the first place? Closer to gross negligence, EVEN IF he had been able to make the program a consistent 7-10 place finisher instead of bringing the program to where it is vying for the worst major conference team in history. But the horrible decision that was the hire of Fox is a topic that has been discussed to death, starting back in 2019 when he was hired (and you participated in the discussions).

It is a bad sign when those like blungld or me have bailed. 44 years of going to games, and I'm done for now, after attending only 3 games last year, with only worse to come this year, it was time to give up tickets. I thought maybe I'd still go to 4-6 games by buying really cheap secondary market tickets, but after watching the team lose to creampuffs on TV, I'm pretty sure I can't stomach attending any games.

While I can't say I think Fox should stay until they can fire him without a buyout, in some ways, I might be worse than you. I feel indifferent about the whole thing. Remember, the opposite of love isn't hate, it is indifference. Fox stays to oversee the worst 2 or 3 year stretch in major conference history? Fine. Fox gets bought out? Fine. I'm too numb about basketball right now to care one way or the other.

I haven't given up on attending football yet, even if I think the Wilcox extension was gross negligence, but uncertainty lies ahead.

Going forward, the headwinds you mention may seriously impact what I do regarding Cal sports in my old age. You failed to mention one other headwind whose outcome is uncertain, conference realignment. This may or may not force Cal into a position where football and MBB are not going to pretend to compete with the big boys. Forget about overpaid Triple A league, it will be Double A at best (although maybe we transition to not overpaid). Realignment combined with the other headwinds may be the final nail in the coffin of Cal sports as we knew it.

If so, there may be benefits. I enjoyed the four years I spent in the late 2010's watching a lot of Division III football, it had a lot of the things that I miss about Cal football from the old days. Ah, when TV doesn't control game times and TV doesn't cause endless commercials, when the stadium atmosphere isn't all about generating revenue but rather capturing the spirit of college athletics, when the students are playing sports for fun and not professional training or money, it can be quite enjoyable. If Cal football and men's basketball ends up with that kind of atmosphere, who knows, maybe I'll enjoy it into my 80's and 90's.
stu
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Chapman_is_Gone said:

There's no need to try to recruit for women's basketball. All of us, as huge sports fans, have given it a fair shot over the years. Some like women's basketball. Some, like me, would rather do just about anything else than go to a women's basketball game.
That's fine with me. I'm not trying to tell anyone what their preferences should be.
stu
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BearlyCareAnymore said:

...
For me, football and basketball have made the full transition to being an overpaid Triple A league. Paying top dollar for bad football and basketball doesn't interest me. And I will tell you that doing college visits with my kids and further research afterward was an eye opener. Many of them do care about sports and students do attend with a lot of school spirit. They just don't care that they aren't "nationally relevant". Personally, if I have a choice between playing UC Davis and maybe winning while getting rid of all the baggage the dollars bring with them, or fielding a body bag program who we send out to get their asses handed to them by Oregon, so we can fund field hockey, I choose playing Davis. Believe me, I would love a third option, but I don't see it.
...
I can't agree more. I'd much rather have an Ivy (or all UC) experience than stay in a national competition to see who can raise the most money.
bearsandgiants
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stu said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

...
For me, football and basketball have made the full transition to being an overpaid Triple A league. Paying top dollar for bad football and basketball doesn't interest me. And I will tell you that doing college visits with my kids and further research afterward was an eye opener. Many of them do care about sports and students do attend with a lot of school spirit. They just don't care that they aren't "nationally relevant". Personally, if I have a choice between playing UC Davis and maybe winning while getting rid of all the baggage the dollars bring with them, or fielding a body bag program who we send out to get their asses handed to them by Oregon, so we can fund field hockey, I choose playing Davis. Believe me, I would love a third option, but I don't see it.
...
I can't agree more. I'd much rather have an Ivy (or all UC) experience than stay in a national competition to see who can raise the most money.
Basketball, maybe, but we have a huge stadium that needs to be filled, and an empty stadium experience isn't worth the drive. Ivy league college football games are less exciting than high school games. Nobody goes. Nobody cares. We can't let that happen to football. Hoops is different. You can put together a decent team and get a decent crowd with a small budget, a decent coach, and scrappy players. St. Mary's is a great example.
polarbear
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>>>There's no need to try to recruit for women's basketball. All of us, as huge sports fans, have given it a fair shot over the years. Some like women's basketball. Some, like me, would rather do just about anything else than go to a women's basketball game.
I am one who does like WBB very much! I went to a lot of our WBB games back before Covid when we had Ashley Walker and then Layshia Clarendon. Many games were very exciting rooting for the home team, and it was a heartbreak then a thrill following Layshia's class go through their years with all the troubles they had on and off the court to have a "Disney sports movie" season ending with the final four. I remember Senior day vs OSU that year they had a phenominal comeback to win with the crowd going wild! That being said there does need to be more parity in WBB so its not FURD every year.
bearister
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The expansion of Harmon/Haas to 12,000 capacity was a major forward thinking fail. 7500 would have been fine.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
southseasbear
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bearsandgiants said:

stu said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

...
For me, football and basketball have made the full transition to being an overpaid Triple A league. Paying top dollar for bad football and basketball doesn't interest me. And I will tell you that doing college visits with my kids and further research afterward was an eye opener. Many of them do care about sports and students do attend with a lot of school spirit. They just don't care that they aren't "nationally relevant". Personally, if I have a choice between playing UC Davis and maybe winning while getting rid of all the baggage the dollars bring with them, or fielding a body bag program who we send out to get their asses handed to them by Oregon, so we can fund field hockey, I choose playing Davis. Believe me, I would love a third option, but I don't see it.
...
I can't agree more. I'd much rather have an Ivy (or all UC) experience than stay in a national competition to see who can raise the most money.
Basketball, maybe, but we have a huge stadium that needs to be filled, and an empty stadium experience isn't worth the drive. Ivy league college football games are less exciting than high school games. Nobody goes. Nobody cares. We can't let that happen to football. Hoops is different. You can put together a decent team and get a decent crowd with a small budget, a decent coach, and scrappy players. St. Mary's is a great example.
I know a lot of people who attended Ivy League schools. Some are colleagues, some are clients, some are our personal doctors. Not one of them attended football games. The sole exception is a former boss who played nose guard for Brown. Even he said students did not attend games.
Fire Knowlton!
Fire Fox!
Put Wilcox in a hot seat!
HoopDreams
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i think they should have increased to 10k with a small number of boxes

but the biggest fails were the changes made to the student section which FiatLux explained.

now the best thing they can do is restore as much of the student section as possible

bearister said:

The expansion of Harmon/Haas to 12,000 capacity was a major forward thinking fail. 7500 would have been fine.
HearstMining
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bearister said:

The expansion of Harmon/Haas to 12,000 capacity was a major forward thinking fail. 7500 would have been fine.
As somebody who went to Cal games during the late 1960s - 1970s and except for UCLA, never had a problem getting a seat, I remember being surprised when they announced the size of the expansion. Still, it's academic at this point since today they wouldn't come close to filling the old Harmon.
stu
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bearsandgiants said:

stu said:

I can't agree more. I'd much rather have an Ivy (or all UC) experience than stay in a national competition to see who can raise the most money.
Basketball, maybe, but we have a huge stadium that needs to be filled, and an empty stadium experience isn't worth the drive. Ivy league college football games are less exciting than high school games. Nobody goes. Nobody cares. We can't let that happen to football. Hoops is different. You can put together a decent team and get a decent crowd with a small budget, a decent coach, and scrappy players. St. Mary's is a great example.
St. Mary's no longer plays football and they're doing fine.

Can we afford to field a competitive football team in a diminished Pac-n conference? And if not will anyone come to our huge stadium to see us get our butts kicked every week? I just don't know if the current environment will allow any return on investment in football. Knowlton seems to think it does but he's been wrong before ...
bearister
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Alternate CMS use:



*But only with approval of the board of the Panoramic Hill Homeowers Association, naturally.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
bluesaxe
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BearlyCareAnymore said:

eastcoastcal said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

blungld said:

Since I started being a Cal fan in 1982 I have not missed a Cal football or basketball game live or broadcast (sometimes on delay). That's a lot of games. And a lot of commitment. I did not watch the last 2 Cal MBB games. And worse. I didn't even check the schedule to know I missed them or the results until another day to know we had lost.

If I am any kind of litmus, the program has destroyed all the good will slowly built at the end of Kutchen and through Lou with KJ, Butler, Washington, LT, Javius, Sears, etc. The "upgrade" to Harmon killed a lot of traditions and adversely effected the fan base, but that is nothing to the destruction that these past few years have wrought. It's criminal the disregard to the traditions and supporters and donors and athletes who built Cal into an upper echelon PAC team that has now fallen to the conference doormat.
I actually recorded the game so I could watch an early holiday movie with my daughter. Then I didn't even watch the recording. I'll probably erase it before watching.

I'm frustrated but can deal with losing. But after Knowlton's staff explained to me TWO YEARS AGO that I'm not a significant enough booster and that JK wants to de-emphasize MBB - apparently because he feels it distracts him from revenue Football and championship caliber sports. Well - that just destroyed my hope.

They actually said that?!? Isn't that supposed to be the proverbial "quiet part that isn't said out loud"?

What other college AD is on record as saying they want to de-emphasize Men's Basketball? Or even thinks that. Good God...
It was his staffer(s), NOT JK. Since being hired, JK has come to our football tailgate on numerous occasions - just for a few minutes of glad handing. The first time we met - I gave him a polite but very clear earful about Wyking Jones (who was still our coach). The next time, he had one of his staffers intercept me and chat with me about MBB before I could confront him again. While the chat covered disappointment in the program, most of it was about how hard Jim was working and how busy he was recovering from his 'listening tour'. After Jones was replaced, the same staffer shared with me their thoughts on the Jones program and lots of positive vibes about FOX. At that point, I believe Covid was impacting our attendance and tailgates and I had no further personal interaction with staffers (who I believe are no longer on staff). At the end of FOX season 2, I told my 'rep' (not sure what they are called these days, used to be bearbackers and gold team - they turnover frequently), that I wouldn't renew my Sec 2 Chairbacks and annual donation if FOX was retained for year 3. At a minimum, I needed assurances that a search/review was underway. I volunteered to help and provided a list of dozens of names for them to start vetting (including Golden at USF - just go watch a couple games and practices and compare).

There were two or three phone calls around this and then very little since then.

Those few exchanges at the end is where the rep shared three things:

1. I was one of many disgruntled MBB supporters who were leaving. A lot of 'I understand'. Absolutely zero "what would make you stay" - probably because I made it very clear already.

2. Not a lot of positive feelings among JK staff or reps. No Cal spirit. Very bureaucratic. Felt like working at a call center. JK was not focused on MBB, but Football and the successful non-revenue sports. JK didn't understand why MBB fans weren't like the other non-revenue fan groups and that they seemed to distract him from his primary duties. THIS POINT WAS THE END FOR ME.

3. The departing rep actually left me my tickets because no one was willing to buy them. They were subsequently removed from my account before conference play that season.

AGAIN - this was from the last rep I was interacting with (who was very unhappy with working for Cal AD). JK intentionally stopped interacting with me after the Jones discussion in his first year. I'm sure he doesn't recall my name and always brought a staffer to run interference with me.
I feel for you, but you have done the right thing. It is a painful process, but you've done the right thing. Haven't seen a game in 3 years. Barely saw any in the couple years before. Life without Cal sports is bliss. You are in a dysfunctional relationship. When you fully end it and put your energy and time into more positive pursuits, you will be a much happier person.

They are right. Basketball is a non-revenue sport for Cal. Cal doesn't make any money on it. Cal will never make money on it. Made money with Jason Kidd, but even if Cal could get those days back (it can't), circumstances have changed. Winning will not cure anything. The people that spent money in those days are dying off. Students don't care. Young alums don't care. Under 50's don't care. And they won't care even if we win. Therefore, Cal doesn't care, and one could argue they shouldn't. The community has spoken or rather has remained silent while Rome burned.

Cal basketball serves two purposes. Simply fielding a team enables Cal to stay in the Pac12 and collect the conference payout. Pretending to care to the right people, namely senile octogenarians with a lot of money keeps a few big checks rolling in. What happened to you was you don't give enough for them to care to lie to you. Hiring Wyking Jones and paying him beans made the strategy obvious. Too obvious. Mark Fox is here and is drastically overpaid because Fox was at least someone the octogenarians had heard of, and the salary makes it look like we may care. Cal thinks the extra money for Fox over Jones pays for itself by bamboozling a few poor old fools into keeping the checks coming.

I feel bad for players who have to be led to slaughter game in and game out so that Cal can get a few extra dollars, but I don't need to participate in the abuse.

Hey, you're Oaktownbear! On a different thread, pretty recently, people pointed out your on-the-money take about the Fox hire back when it initially happened. Great to see you back even though sorry to hear you're not engaged with the program anymore. Would you tune in again if Fox's replacement is a quality hire?
Correction. I was OaktownBear. That dude is gone. That dude started going to football games when he was 5 and showed up 4 hours before game time with a bunch of class reading to pass the time in his first game freshman year to make sure he got the exact seat in the rooting section he had always wanted. Love that dude. He has passed on.

I very occasionally pop in here to see how some of my ol' mates are doing because the state of things is that I care more about the community here than the underlying reason it came together. I will say east - I've seen your posts on occasion and I feel for you a little bit because you are 30 years too late here. Wish I could give you what I had - which was not necessarily winning but was a great experience. Then again, you still get to be part of a great school and a great community - just one that doesn't value sports like you. My advice to you would be to have a blast, win or lose.

Cal won't do what is necessary to bring me back, and you won't want them to. (yet. Give it 20 years). And that is to play schools who prioritize football and basketball in a similar fashion. People here are so wrapped up in national relevance that they miss that we aren't relevant in Berkeley. Games are no fun and nobody goes or cares. It's no fun to watch sports teams that have zero chance of ever competing over the course of a season. Nor is it fun to go to games that have been stripped of all tradition and fun because people thought that the payoff for allowing that was that we could be in a better position to compete.

And they won't make a quality hire as you want and even if they did, they won't provide the institutional support for that coach to succeed. I'm not bitter about that. I got to have the college experience I wanted, and I won't judge those that came after me for not wanting the same things I did. What I am bitter about is the disgraceful mismanagement that leads to the absolute gross negligence of extending Fox and Knowlton on the terms they did. (Wilcox's extension is merely negligence). As far as I'm concerned the coach next year should be Fox and it should be until his buyout expires. No one should pay one penny to bail them out of that decision. Fox should stay until they can fire him without any buyout. Nor will it make a difference. Cal's days as a basketball high major are done. Hell, this year if they dropped down to mid major, they'd still be winless. Cal should pay coaching salaries commensurate with being the mid major that it wants to be and quit the charade.
Damn. I thought I was down on things. I am not much of a football guy so I can't comment on Wilcox, but it wasn't that long ago that Cal hoops had enthusiastic crowds and a 4 seed, and that could happen again if the AD didn't have his head up his butt. But if the alternative is to resign ourselves to a lesser role in that universe, to hell with mid-major. Just join the Patriot League.
 
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