How Desirable is the HC Job?

4,842 Views | 52 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by oski003
wifeisafurd
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sluggo said:

wifeisafurd said:

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.
This is silly. A mid-major head coach or top assistant can get a salary raise of 4x to 8x or more. That would be enough. But Cal has many advantages along with some disadvantages. The biggest disadvantage is that after years of poor recruiting the team has little talent. But that could change quickly with a dynamic recruiter, and the transfer rules allow quick rebuilds.

I think NIL could flow once a coach gave hope. And Cal will give its new coach time, lots and lots of time.

What seems silly is thinking changing nothing about the hiring process or the program will result in different outcomes. Add the complications of no money to pay or retain good players, the bottom basement coach really has no chance.
calumnus
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wifeisafurd said:

sluggo said:

wifeisafurd said:

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.
This is silly. A mid-major head coach or top assistant can get a salary raise of 4x to 8x or more. That would be enough. But Cal has many advantages along with some disadvantages. The biggest disadvantage is that after years of poor recruiting the team has little talent. But that could change quickly with a dynamic recruiter, and the transfer rules allow quick rebuilds.

I think NIL could flow once a coach gave hope. And Cal will give its new coach time, lots and lots of time.

What seems silly is thinking changing nothing about the hiring process or the program will result in different outcomes.


The hiring process absolutely needs to be different this time. No one wants Knowlton to be the sole decision maker, relying on a search firm, two interviews and a decision in less than a week,

Pressure needs to be placed on Knowlton to bring in people that both know something about basketball and care about the program, because he clearly fails on both counts.
Grigsby
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College basketball is much much easier to turn around than CFB.

The main problem is that Cal has Mr. Magoo as AD, and they need someone who has vision, stones, and will be given autonomy.

There a lot of strong coaching candidates that would want to be at Cal, but only if they have the right AD.

The job is a lame duck position until the AD and Crhist are given the boot. The AD is stealing at this point.
calumnus
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Grigsby said:

College basketball is much much easier to turn around than CFB.

The main problem is that Cal has Mr. Magoo as AD, and they need someone who has vision, stones, and will be given autonomy.

There a lot of strong coaching candidates that would want to be at Cal, but only if they have the right AD.

The job is a lame duck position until the AD and Crhist are given the boot. The AD is stealing at this point.



I agree with everything except one point: Who wouldn't want to work for a goob like Knowlton? Have a boss who raises your salary by $1 million a year despite your screw ups and finishing at the bottom? Giving everybody automatic raises and extensions? People under your care, and their parents, complain that you have been abusive and violated rules and laws and he tells them to get lost and gives you a big raise and new 5 year contract? A boss that pays you $millions while holding you to no discernible standard? I think that would be attractive to a lot of coaches relative to the ADs around the country that have fired far better coaches than the ones we have.

The ONLY problem is Knowlton is incompetent at picking a good coach.

89Bear
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calumnus said:

89Bear said:

calumnus said:

89Bear said:

wifeisafurd said:

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.
This is a good summary. For a coach with options, I think they pass this place up.
Monty was a different and unique guy.


Yet, St. Mary's and USF have nationally relevant teams. Who at St. Mary's do you think could not be admitted to Cal? We pay more than they do. We have more fans than they do.

When we last had an opening, Jason Kidd said the Cal job is the only college job he would want.

The above list is just excuse making for Fox and Knowlton. Crazy that Knowlton is even now part of the list.

Hilarious that some people think that Jason Kidd could have been here as a head coach!!!
Yep, I can see him at RSF coaching up the players after finding out Haas is booked.
So close to the NBA experience...
I hear Tom Brady was sooo close to coming too!!


Right? Or that Deion Sanders would coach at Jackson State? Impossible. Have you seen THEIR faculties? With all the money the state of Mississippi has and throws at HBCUS? Especially their athletics programs?

And Sanders isn't even an alum.

Cal didn't even have Haas when Kidd went to Cal. Cal was good enough for him as a player, you think he doesn't know what our facilities are like?

Most people love their alma maters, Kidd said Cal is the only college job he would take. Why call him a liar?
Why hate on your alma mater (assuming you went to Cal)?
You are brilliant. One of the most impressive minds our world has seen. Because I questioned the Cal basketball program, one of the least supported in the conference, you have gathered that I must not have gone to Cal. Absolutely incredible thinking!!!!
calumnus
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89Bear said:

calumnus said:

89Bear said:

calumnus said:

89Bear said:

wifeisafurd said:

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.
This is a good summary. For a coach with options, I think they pass this place up.
Monty was a different and unique guy.


Yet, St. Mary's and USF have nationally relevant teams. Who at St. Mary's do you think could not be admitted to Cal? We pay more than they do. We have more fans than they do.

When we last had an opening, Jason Kidd said the Cal job is the only college job he would want.

The above list is just excuse making for Fox and Knowlton. Crazy that Knowlton is even now part of the list.

Hilarious that some people think that Jason Kidd could have been here as a head coach!!!
Yep, I can see him at RSF coaching up the players after finding out Haas is booked.
So close to the NBA experience...
I hear Tom Brady was sooo close to coming too!!


Right? Or that Deion Sanders would coach at Jackson State? Impossible. Have you seen THEIR faculties? With all the money the state of Mississippi has and throws at HBCUS? Especially their athletics programs?

And Sanders isn't even an alum.

Cal didn't even have Haas when Kidd went to Cal. Cal was good enough for him as a player, you think he doesn't know what our facilities are like?

Most people love their alma maters, Kidd said Cal is the only college job he would take. Why call him a liar?
Why hate on your alma mater (assuming you went to Cal)?
You are brilliant. One of the most impressive minds our world has seen. Because I questioned the Cal basketball program, one of the least supported in the conference, you have gathered that I must not have gone to Cal. Absolutely incredible thinking!!!!


You seem to know little about the program you are trashing. If you were smart, knowledgeable and loved Cal, of course I would naturally assume you went to Cal.

However, addressing your post: least supported currently because we have a terrible coach and we are losing every game. However just 6 years ago we had 3 McDonald's All Americans, we were undefeated at home, earned a 4 seed and finished ranked while averaging 10,000 a game in attendance.

Look at the thread here about Lamond Murray (who went to Cal, FYI), Cal alums care about the program.

Jason Kidd cares about the program. I have little doubt that if he had been offered the job when we last had an opening, he would have taken it as he indicated he would. He was unemployed and ended up taking an assistant job. The idea that could have happened is not "hilarious." Nor is the fact that Tom Brady came very close to transferring to Cal. Did you know Aaron Rodgers and Marshawn Lynch both went to Cal? They were even teammates?
Big C
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Hypothetical:

Let's say the finalists are Joe Pasternack and Shantay Legans...

Would Knowlton go with Pasternack because he felt more comfortable with him? Or Legans, because he wants to answer critics (including his boss, this time) who say he always picks the guy he feels more comfortable with?
calumnus
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Big C said:


Hypothetical:

Let's say the finalists are Joe Pasternack and Shantay Legans...

Would Knowlton go with Pasternack because he felt more comfortable with him? Or Legans, because he wants to answer critics (including his boss, this time) who say he always picks the guy he feels more comfortable with?


He probably goes with the guy the big donors line up to support. He plays it safe, which is what he thought he was doing with Fox. He will not put himself out on a limb, he will want support on this hire.
sluggo
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wifeisafurd said:

sluggo said:

wifeisafurd said:

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.
This is silly. A mid-major head coach or top assistant can get a salary raise of 4x to 8x or more. That would be enough. But Cal has many advantages along with some disadvantages. The biggest disadvantage is that after years of poor recruiting the team has little talent. But that could change quickly with a dynamic recruiter, and the transfer rules allow quick rebuilds.

I think NIL could flow once a coach gave hope. And Cal will give its new coach time, lots and lots of time.

What seems silly is thinking changing nothing about the hiring process or the program will result in different outcomes. Add the complications of no money to pay or retain good players, the bottom basement coach really has no chance.
The hiring process is risky for sure given the incompetence of the person who would likely be running it. But a coach who was good at ANY aspect of head coaching (recruiting, player development, in game coaching) would result in better outcomes. There is nothing given about this season's disaster. I don't expect national championships, but I do expect general competence.
BearlyCareAnymore
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calumnus said:

Big C said:


Hypothetical:

Let's say the finalists are Joe Pasternack and Shantay Legans...

Would Knowlton go with Pasternack because he felt more comfortable with him? Or Legans, because he wants to answer critics (including his boss, this time) who say he always picks the guy he feels more comfortable with?


He probably goes with the guy the big donors line up to support. He plays it safe, which is what he thought he was doing with Fox. He will not put himself out on a limb, he will want support on this hire.
Why does Knowlton need to play it safe? He has a big fat contract that basically can last him until retirement. He got that contract with the administration knowing full well how he was doing in revenue sports. I think you guys need to get with the program that Cal LIKES WHAT HE IS DOING. I don't think he has any risk at all in this hire. And if he gets fired, so what? Cal has him set up. If he had a brain, he'd try and get himself fired and go off fishing.

Or do you guys actually think he cares that you guys hate him?
oskidunker
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We could higher Pasternak as head coach, Francis as assistant and Kevin Ollie as director of player personnel.we would then have Kickla , Fran and Ollie . I doubt anyone gets this, maybe sfcity….
Go Bears!
stu
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BearlyCareAnymore said:

Why does Knowlton need to play it safe? He has a big fat contract that basically can last him until retirement. He got that contract with the administration knowing full well how he was doing in revenue sports. I think you guys need to get with the program that Cal LIKES WHAT HE IS DOING. I don't think he has any risk at all in this hire. And if he gets fired, so what? Cal has him set up. If he had a brain, he'd try and get himself fired and go off fishing.

Or do you guys actually think he cares that you guys hate him?
He probably relishes being hated and the haters have no power over him.
Grigsby
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calumnus said:

Grigsby said:

College basketball is much much easier to turn around than CFB.

The main problem is that Cal has Mr. Magoo as AD, and they need someone who has vision, stones, and will be given autonomy.

There a lot of strong coaching candidates that would want to be at Cal, but only if they have the right AD.

The job is a lame duck position until the AD and Crhist are given the boot. The AD is stealing at this point.



I agree with everything except one point: Who wouldn't want to work for a goob like Knowlton? Have a boss who raises your salary by $1 million a year despite your screw ups and finishing at the bottom? Giving everybody automatic raises and extensions? People under your care, and their parents, complain that you have been abusive and violated rules and laws and he tells them to get lost and gives you a big raise and new 5 year contract? A boss that pays you $millions while holding you to no discernible standard? I think that would be attractive to a lot of coaches relative to the ADs around the country that have fired far better coaches than the ones we have.

The ONLY problem is Knowlton is incompetent at picking a good coach.



No top coach wants to work for an idiot. Look at the massive failures all around Cal Athletics in terms of a complete lack of attention to detail. How many snafus have occurred with tickets. Look at the piss poor concessions for football, which includes terrible catering for high end clients.

A boss that can't be honest and be critical when appropriate when necessary is useless.

Remember that this is competitive sports not a desk job. Tens of millions to hundreds of millions are at stake.

Cal has fundamental issues with all aspects and it isn't run the way that top organizations are run.

If you want top results you need leaders who are willing to dig in and fix all the problems and damn everyone's egos. Cal needs a disruptor AD who isn't going tolerate substandard customer service and who will show the ingenuity to address issues like low attendance and develop a tribal culture around the sports programs.


calumnus
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Grigsby said:

calumnus said:

Grigsby said:

College basketball is much much easier to turn around than CFB.

The main problem is that Cal has Mr. Magoo as AD, and they need someone who has vision, stones, and will be given autonomy.

There a lot of strong coaching candidates that would want to be at Cal, but only if they have the right AD.

The job is a lame duck position until the AD and Crhist are given the boot. The AD is stealing at this point.



I agree with everything except one point: Who wouldn't want to work for a goob like Knowlton? Have a boss who raises your salary by $1 million a year despite your screw ups and finishing at the bottom? Giving everybody automatic raises and extensions? People under your care, and their parents, complain that you have been abusive and violated rules and laws and he tells them to get lost and gives you a big raise and new 5 year contract? A boss that pays you $millions while holding you to no discernible standard? I think that would be attractive to a lot of coaches relative to the ADs around the country that have fired far better coaches than the ones we have.

The ONLY problem is Knowlton is incompetent at picking a good coach.



No top coach wants to work for an idiot. Look at the massive failures all around Cal Athletics in terms of a complete lack of attention to detail. How many snafus have occurred with tickets. Look at the piss poor concessions for football, which includes terrible catering for high end clients.

A boss that can't be honest and be critical when appropriate when necessary is useless.

Remember that this is competitive sports not a desk job. Tens of millions to hundreds of millions are at stake.

Cal has fundamental issues with all aspects and it isn't run the way that top organizations are run.

If you want top results you need leaders who are willing to dig in and fix all the problems and damn everyone's egos. Cal needs a disruptor AD who isn't going tolerate substandard customer service and who will show the ingenuity to address issues like low attendance and develop a tribal culture around the sports programs.





Fire Knowlton
wifeisafurd
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calumnus said:

Grigsby said:

calumnus said:

Grigsby said:

College basketball is much much easier to turn around than CFB.

The main problem is that Cal has Mr. Magoo as AD, and they need someone who has vision, stones, and will be given autonomy.

There a lot of strong coaching candidates that would want to be at Cal, but only if they have the right AD.

The job is a lame duck position until the AD and Crhist are given the boot. The AD is stealing at this point.



I agree with everything except one point: Who wouldn't want to work for a goob like Knowlton? Have a boss who raises your salary by $1 million a year despite your screw ups and finishing at the bottom? Giving everybody automatic raises and extensions? People under your care, and their parents, complain that you have been abusive and violated rules and laws and he tells them to get lost and gives you a big raise and new 5 year contract? A boss that pays you $millions while holding you to no discernible standard? I think that would be attractive to a lot of coaches relative to the ADs around the country that have fired far better coaches than the ones we have.

The ONLY problem is Knowlton is incompetent at picking a good coach.



No top coach wants to work for an idiot. Look at the massive failures all around Cal Athletics in terms of a complete lack of attention to detail. How many snafus have occurred with tickets. Look at the piss poor concessions for football, which includes terrible catering for high end clients.

A boss that can't be honest and be critical when appropriate when necessary is useless.

Remember that this is competitive sports not a desk job. Tens of millions to hundreds of millions are at stake.

Cal has fundamental issues with all aspects and it isn't run the way that top organizations are run.

If you want top results you need leaders who are willing to dig in and fix all the problems and damn everyone's egos. Cal needs a disruptor AD who isn't going tolerate substandard customer service and who will show the ingenuity to address issues like low attendance and develop a tribal culture around the sports programs.





Fire Knowlton
MBB could be retrievable with some fundamental changes in AD staffing and mindset, and also fundamental changes to the program, particularly with respect to funding and NIL. But you are ignoring the present reality. It is not simply fire this coach and have Knowlton replace him. Absent the McKeever investigation allowing Cal to threaten termination for cause, I'm not seeing JK moving on. This also is a timing issue, unless someone can tell me when the investigation is ending.
BeachedBear
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wifeisafurd said:

calumnus said:

Grigsby said:

calumnus said:

Grigsby said:

College basketball is much much easier to turn around than CFB.

The main problem is that Cal has Mr. Magoo as AD, and they need someone who has vision, stones, and will be given autonomy.

There a lot of strong coaching candidates that would want to be at Cal, but only if they have the right AD.

The job is a lame duck position until the AD and Crhist are given the boot. The AD is stealing at this point.



I agree with everything except one point: Who wouldn't want to work for a goob like Knowlton? Have a boss who raises your salary by $1 million a year despite your screw ups and finishing at the bottom? Giving everybody automatic raises and extensions? People under your care, and their parents, complain that you have been abusive and violated rules and laws and he tells them to get lost and gives you a big raise and new 5 year contract? A boss that pays you $millions while holding you to no discernible standard? I think that would be attractive to a lot of coaches relative to the ADs around the country that have fired far better coaches than the ones we have.

The ONLY problem is Knowlton is incompetent at picking a good coach.



No top coach wants to work for an idiot. Look at the massive failures all around Cal Athletics in terms of a complete lack of attention to detail. How many snafus have occurred with tickets. Look at the piss poor concessions for football, which includes terrible catering for high end clients.

A boss that can't be honest and be critical when appropriate when necessary is useless.

Remember that this is competitive sports not a desk job. Tens of millions to hundreds of millions are at stake.

Cal has fundamental issues with all aspects and it isn't run the way that top organizations are run.

If you want top results you need leaders who are willing to dig in and fix all the problems and damn everyone's egos. Cal needs a disruptor AD who isn't going tolerate substandard customer service and who will show the ingenuity to address issues like low attendance and develop a tribal culture around the sports programs.





Fire Knowlton
MBB could be retrievable with some fundamental changes in AD staffing and mindset, and also fundamental changes to the program, particularly with respect to funding and NIL. But you are ignoring the present reality. It is not simply fire this coach and have Knowlton replace him. Absent the McKeever investigation allowing Cal to threaten termination for cause, I'm not seeing JK moving on. This also is a timing issue, unless someone can tell me when the investigation is ending.
Agreed. First, the 'institution' must want to succeed and have a vision. And that mean some level of support from management (Regents, etc), employees (including academics), students, alumni, community, fans, etc.

Then, the leadership (Chancellor and Athletic Director) need to support that vision of success.

The reality is I don't see these first steps in place. In fact, other than a dwindling fan base and some enthusiastic donors/alumni, the 'institution' seems indifferent at best.

if the above were to change - getting the program back on track is by no means insurmountable. However, the window to go from rebuilding to start over is rapidly closing.
bluesaxe
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wifeisafurd said:



MBB could be retrievable with some fundamental changes in AD staffing and mindset, and also fundamental changes to the program, particularly with respect to funding and NIL. But you are ignoring the present reality. It is not simply fire this coach and have Knowlton replace him. Absent the McKeever investigation allowing Cal to threaten termination for cause, I'm not seeing JK moving on. This also is a timing issue, unless someone can tell me when the investigation is ending.
That investigation was to last "up to six months," so of course it's lasted longer than six months with no end in sight.
oski003
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calumnus said:

89Bear said:

calumnus said:

89Bear said:

calumnus said:

89Bear said:

wifeisafurd said:

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.
This is a good summary. For a coach with options, I think they pass this place up.
Monty was a different and unique guy.


Yet, St. Mary's and USF have nationally relevant teams. Who at St. Mary's do you think could not be admitted to Cal? We pay more than they do. We have more fans than they do.

When we last had an opening, Jason Kidd said the Cal job is the only college job he would want.

The above list is just excuse making for Fox and Knowlton. Crazy that Knowlton is even now part of the list.

Hilarious that some people think that Jason Kidd could have been here as a head coach!!!
Yep, I can see him at RSF coaching up the players after finding out Haas is booked.
So close to the NBA experience...
I hear Tom Brady was sooo close to coming too!!


Right? Or that Deion Sanders would coach at Jackson State? Impossible. Have you seen THEIR faculties? With all the money the state of Mississippi has and throws at HBCUS? Especially their athletics programs?

And Sanders isn't even an alum.

Cal didn't even have Haas when Kidd went to Cal. Cal was good enough for him as a player, you think he doesn't know what our facilities are like?

Most people love their alma maters, Kidd said Cal is the only college job he would take. Why call him a liar?
Why hate on your alma mater (assuming you went to Cal)?
You are brilliant. One of the most impressive minds our world has seen. Because I questioned the Cal basketball program, one of the least supported in the conference, you have gathered that I must not have gone to Cal. Absolutely incredible thinking!!!!


You seem to know little about the program you are trashing. If you were smart, knowledgeable and loved Cal, of course I would naturally assume you went to Cal.

However, addressing your post: least supported currently because we have a terrible coach and we are losing every game. However just 6 years ago we had 3 McDonald's All Americans, we were undefeated at home, earned a 4 seed and finished ranked while averaging 10,000 a game in attendance.

Look at the thread here about Lamond Murray (who went to Cal, FYI), Cal alums care about the program.

Jason Kidd cares about the program. I have little doubt that if he had been offered the job when we last had an opening, he would have taken it as he indicated he would. He was unemployed and ended up taking an assistant job. The idea that could have happened is not "hilarious." Nor is the fact that Tom Brady came very close to transferring to Cal. Did you know Aaron Rodgers and Marshawn Lynch both went to Cal? They were even teammates?


The admin handicapped that team, and then they lost in the first round of the ncaas. One player from that team also recently penned an opinion piece about how academic inflexibility at Cal made it difficult for him to succeed at basketball and academics. Cal sucks right now for revenue sports.
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