4thGenCal said:

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Big C said:

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Regarding any possible firing of Fox in-season, I thought there might be a 10% chance that he would be let go after the non-conference games. Then Sunday's Beaver game was so bad, I thought there might be a 5% chance that he would be gone yesterday or today (wait, have they maybe announced a press conference?). At this point, I guess they wait until the week of the Pac 12 Tournament or the next workday after we are eliminated.

The important thing to note, though, is that a competent AD is free to be laying the groundwork for this over the next six weeks, even as the season plays out...
- gather the necessary funding
- contact trusted advisors to consult with as to who to hire
- hate to say the words "search firm", but sometimes they can identify candidates that Cal people aren't aware of
- start to develop a short list

If you keyed in on my words "a competent AD" above, hey, what can I say, but it looks like our current guy will get a second chance to show what he can do on this.

---

The issue is likely the $3.15M+ buyout total needed, assuming a April 1 termination. Are there enough passionate alums who will front the necessary monies? Remember there are competing areas of greatly needed NIL funds, Caliber funding, Excellence Club funding, Grid Club funding and supporting Olympic sports w/in the Cal Athletic programs. And those areas of donations/giving do not factor in the large funds needed for the Practice Facility. The sad state is that apathy is settling in and until a few wealthy passionate alums, who truly care about a winning program agree to step up - its far easier and to slog thru another dismal season. Not agreeing with the kick the can down the road, but the AD can likely say that another year means a lower buyout and does not detract funding from other needed areas. Its not a slam dunk that a termination occurs after the season.

---

Thanks for the info, even though it's disheartening. In 40+ years of being a Cal fan, I have never seen a football or basketball coach survive something like this, but maybe this could be yet another "famous first" in my Cal fandom.

I've attended over 500 Cal Basketball games. I always thought of myself as a "lifer", but if things don't change, how could I possibly keep coming? I am one of the least anti-Fox people around: I see a professional coach who is in one of those situations that just isn't working out (granted, a lot of it his own doing). He's frustrated, too, and is letting that frustration show... to his further detriment. I don't hate the man, but things have cratered.

4thGenCal said:

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Big C said:

---

Regarding any possible firing of Fox in-season, I thought there might be a 10% chance that he would be let go after the non-conference games. Then Sunday's Beaver game was so bad, I thought there might be a 5% chance that he would be gone yesterday or today (wait, have they maybe announced a press conference?). At this point, I guess they wait until the week of the Pac 12 Tournament or the next workday after we are eliminated.

The important thing to note, though, is that a competent AD is free to be laying the groundwork for this over the next six weeks, even as the season plays out...
- gather the necessary funding
- contact trusted advisors to consult with as to who to hire
- hate to say the words "search firm", but sometimes they can identify candidates that Cal people aren't aware of
- start to develop a short list

If you keyed in on my words "a competent AD" above, hey, what can I say, but it looks like our current guy will get a second chance to show what he can do on this.

---

The issue is likely the $3.15M+ buyout total needed, assuming a April 1 termination. Are there enough passionate alums who will front the necessary monies? Remember there are competing areas of greatly needed NIL funds, Caliber funding, Excellence Club funding, Grid Club funding and supporting Olympic sports w/in the Cal Athletic programs. And those areas of donations/giving do not factor in the large funds needed for the Practice Facility. The sad state is that apathy is settling in and until a few wealthy passionate alums, who truly care about a winning program agree to step up - its far easier and to slog thru another dismal season. Not agreeing with the kick the can down the road, but the AD can likely say that another year means a lower buyout and does not detract funding from other needed areas. Its not a slam dunk that a termination occurs after the season.

---

So if Knowlton worked for me, I'd be having a 'hard' discussion around:

1. When did JK recognize that he is vastly overpaying FOX (or if he didn't, why not)? This should have happened in months 12 and 24.
2. Once he did recognize it, what has he done to rectify the situation. This should have been done in months 13 and 25.
3. Why, why, why is there an extension?
4. What's the contingency plan?

I mean this is management 101 - they actually TEACH this stuff in the Air Force. This is simply gross incompetence.

4thGenCal said:

---

Big C said:

---

Regarding any possible firing of Fox in-season, I thought there might be a 10% chance that he would be let go after the non-conference games. Then Sunday's Beaver game was so bad, I thought there might be a 5% chance that he would be gone yesterday or today (wait, have they maybe announced a press conference?). At this point, I guess they wait until the week of the Pac 12 Tournament or the next workday after we are eliminated.

The important thing to note, though, is that a competent AD is free to be laying the groundwork for this over the next six weeks, even as the season plays out...
- gather the necessary funding
- contact trusted advisors to consult with as to who to hire
- hate to say the words "search firm", but sometimes they can identify candidates that Cal people aren't aware of
- start to develop a short list

If you keyed in on my words "a competent AD" above, hey, what can I say, but it looks like our current guy will get a second chance to show what he can do on this.

---

The issue is likely the $3.15M+ buyout total needed, assuming a April 1 termination. Are there enough passionate alums who will front the necessary monies? Remember there are competing areas of greatly needed NIL funds, Caliber funding, Excellence Club funding, Grid Club funding and supporting Olympic sports w/in the Cal Athletic programs. And those areas of donations/giving do not factor in the large funds needed for the Practice Facility. The sad state is that apathy is settling in and until a few wealthy passionate alums, who truly care about a winning program agree to step up - its far easier and to slog thru another dismal season. Not agreeing with the kick the can down the road, but the AD can likely say that another year means a lower buyout and does not detract funding from other needed areas. Its not a slam dunk that a termination occurs after the season.

---

I think "slogging through another dismal season" is putting it kindly.

This is unprecedented bad and it will probably get worse next season. I'm expecting mass player defections. No one's gonna stick around for this shi*show. Fox may be in a position where he has 8 open scholarships.

BC Calfan said:

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4thGenCal said:

---

Big C said:

---

Regarding any possible firing of Fox in-season, I thought there might be a 10% chance that he would be let go after the non-conference games. Then Sunday's Beaver game was so bad, I thought there might be a 5% chance that he would be gone yesterday or today (wait, have they maybe announced a press conference?). At this point, I guess they wait until the week of the Pac 12 Tournament or the next workday after we are eliminated.

The important thing to note, though, is that a competent AD is free to be laying the groundwork for this over the next six weeks, even as the season plays out...
- gather the necessary funding
- contact trusted advisors to consult with as to who to hire
- hate to say the words "search firm", but sometimes they can identify candidates that Cal people aren't aware of
- start to develop a short list

If you keyed in on my words "a competent AD" above, hey, what can I say, but it looks like our current guy will get a second chance to show what he can do on this.

---

The issue is likely the $3.15M+ buyout total needed, assuming a April 1 termination. Are there enough passionate alums who will front the necessary monies? Remember there are competing areas of greatly needed NIL funds, Caliber funding, Excellence Club funding, Grid Club funding and supporting Olympic sports w/in the Cal Athletic programs. And those areas of donations/giving do not factor in the large funds needed for the Practice Facility. The sad state is that apathy is settling in and until a few wealthy passionate alums, who truly care about a winning program agree to step up - its far easier and to slog thru another dismal season. Not agreeing with the kick the can down the road, but the AD can likely say that another year means a lower buyout and does not detract funding from other needed areas. Its not a slam dunk that a termination occurs after the season.

---

I think "slogging through another dismal season" is putting it kindly.

This is unprecedented bad and it will probably get worse next season. I'm expecting mass player defections. No one's gonna stick around for this shi*show. Fox may be in a position where he has 8 open scholarships.

---

God no....with the recruiting acumen that has been displayed by Fox (from now on I'm referring to him as MFer) we will be in deeper doo-doo than we are now....MFer has got to go, sooner than later....

4thGenCal said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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4thGenCal said:

---

Big C said:

---

Regarding any possible firing of Fox in-season, I thought there might be a 10% chance that he would be let go after the non-conference games. Then Sunday's Beaver game was so bad, I thought there might be a 5% chance that he would be gone yesterday or today (wait, have they maybe announced a press conference?). At this point, I guess they wait until the week of the Pac 12 Tournament or the next workday after we are eliminated.

The important thing to note, though, is that a competent AD is free to be laying the groundwork for this over the next six weeks, even as the season plays out...
- gather the necessary funding
- contact trusted advisors to consult with as to who to hire
- hate to say the words "search firm", but sometimes they can identify candidates that Cal people aren't aware of
- start to develop a short list

If you keyed in on my words "a competent AD" above, hey, what can I say, but it looks like our current guy will get a second chance to show what he can do on this.

---

The issue is likely the $3.15M+ buyout total needed, assuming a April 1 termination. Are there enough passionate alums who will front the necessary monies? Remember there are competing areas of greatly needed NIL funds, Caliber funding, Excellence Club funding, Grid Club funding and supporting Olympic sports w/in the Cal Athletic programs. And those areas of donations/giving do not factor in the large funds needed for the Practice Facility. The sad state is that apathy is settling in and until a few wealthy passionate alums, who truly care about a winning program agree to step up - its far easier and to slog thru another dismal season. Not agreeing with the kick the can down the road, but the AD can likely say that another year means a lower buyout and does not detract funding from other needed areas. Its not a slam dunk that a termination occurs after the season.

---

Understood, however my message to JK would be that the $1.5M delta between firing after this season vs keeping for another season can probably be semi-recouped (perhaps not fully) by the difference in attendance. I am willing to bet that many of the remaining people who show up to games this season will not return to Haas for another season of Fox (I think I am one of them, and I'm a student!) versus the uptick in attendance that a new coach with a higher ceiling might provide.

Outside the fiscal aspect, what does it say about us as a program and school that we can have the worst season in our history (we would need 8 wins, aka 5 more in order to not have the worst win % in Cal history) and one of the worst seasons ever for a power conference team, and keep the coach for the next year after 4 miserable years? I think we'd be the laughingstock of the country, and rightfully so.

I just think it would be a total embarrassment if Fox is coaching next year, and probably the worst half-decade collapse in all of college sports, going from a 4 seed in the tournament to 6 years of miserable results and a program that can't even find the funds to buyout it's basement-dwelling coach.

That would be my thought process to Knowlton

---

Agreed and hopefully the termination decision is made, but its based on firm money commitments from those that are willing to pay for the buyout. And frankly if one key donor - leverages his potential big donation (practice facility or another area) on keeping Fox for one more season, that could also be a reason to delay the firing. Nothing has

---

The fact that there could be any big donor to Cal who would in any way want to keep Fox on, to the point that they would make keeping Fox a requirement for their donation, is so mind-boggling that I can not believe it is even remotely possible. Any competent Athletic Director could make a presentation or make the case why Fox should have been fired at several points throughout his tenure and could also make the case that it would be the height of AD malpractice to keep Fox on, and I would hope be able to tell said donor to go pound sand if that's the condition for the donation. It is 100% clear to me that Knowlton will do no such thing.

I can't believe the question implies "if" not "when".

calumnus said:

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CalLifer said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

eastcoastcal said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

Big C said:

---

Regarding any possible firing of Fox in-season, I thought there might be a 10% chance that he would be let go after the non-conference games. Then Sunday's Beaver game was so bad, I thought there might be a 5% chance that he would be gone yesterday or today (wait, have they maybe announced a press conference?). At this point, I guess they wait until the week of the Pac 12 Tournament or the next workday after we are eliminated.

The important thing to note, though, is that a competent AD is free to be laying the groundwork for this over the next six weeks, even as the season plays out...
- gather the necessary funding
- contact trusted advisors to consult with as to who to hire
- hate to say the words "search firm", but sometimes they can identify candidates that Cal people aren't aware of
- start to develop a short list

If you keyed in on my words "a competent AD" above, hey, what can I say, but it looks like our current guy will get a second chance to show what he can do on this.

---

The issue is likely the $3.15M+ buyout total needed, assuming a April 1 termination. Are there enough passionate alums who will front the necessary monies? Remember there are competing areas of greatly needed NIL funds, Caliber funding, Excellence Club funding, Grid Club funding and supporting Olympic sports w/in the Cal Athletic programs. And those areas of donations/giving do not factor in the large funds needed for the Practice Facility. The sad state is that apathy is settling in and until a few wealthy passionate alums, who truly care about a winning program agree to step up - its far easier and to slog thru another dismal season. Not agreeing with the kick the can down the road, but the AD can likely say that another year means a lower buyout and does not detract funding from other needed areas. Its not a slam dunk that a termination occurs after the season.

---

Understood, however my message to JK would be that the $1.5M delta between firing after this season vs keeping for another season can probably be semi-recouped (perhaps not fully) by the difference in attendance. I am willing to bet that many of the remaining people who show up to games this season will not return to Haas for another season of Fox (I think I am one of them, and I'm a student!) versus the uptick in attendance that a new coach with a higher ceiling might provide.

Outside the fiscal aspect, what does it say about us as a program and school that we can have the worst season in our history (we would need 8 wins, aka 5 more in order to not have the worst win % in Cal history) and one of the worst seasons ever for a power conference team, and keep the coach for the next year after 4 miserable years? I think we'd be the laughingstock of the country, and rightfully so.

I just think it would be a total embarrassment if Fox is coaching next year, and probably the worst half-decade collapse in all of college sports, going from a 4 seed in the tournament to 6 years of miserable results and a program that can't even find the funds to buyout it's basement-dwelling coach.

That would be my thought process to Knowlton

---

Agreed and hopefully the termination decision is made, but its based on firm money commitments from those that are willing to pay for the buyout. And frankly if one key donor - leverages his potential big donation (practice facility or another area) on keeping Fox for one more season, that could also be a reason to delay the firing. Nothing has

---

The fact that there could be any big donor to Cal who would in any way want to keep Fox on, to the point that they would make keeping Fox a requirement for their donation, is so mind-boggling that I can not believe it is even remotely possible. Any competent Athletic Director could make a presentation or make the case why Fox should have been fired at several points throughout his tenure and could also make the case that it would be the height of AD malpractice to keep Fox on, and I would hope be able to tell said donor to go pound sand if that's the condition for the donation. It is 100% clear to me that Knowlton will do no such thing.

---

Clearly one of our problems is some of our big donors and insiders become personally attached to bad coaches.

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On some level, I can understand an attachment to coaches who have had some success and then falter (like Tedford, or Braun to some extent). But being attached to a coach that has been an abject failure for his entire tenure at Cal (and was fired from his previous job and out of work!) so thoroughly boggles the mind as to be unbelievable.

First, a big reason we think we need a lot of money to fire Fox is Knowlton gave him an extension after a last place finish where we set a Cal record for PAC-12 losses. So if anyone should be fired "for cause" it is Knowlton.

The huge contract for McKeever after receiving complaints of abuse but not investigating is similar fiscal mismanagement in addition to his actions/inactions violating other university policies and state and federal laws.

The 6 year extension for Wilcox was also mismanagement, but we have to hope that works out.

Christ's 8 year contract to Knowlton may have been based on a fraudulent representation that he had been offered the Northwestern AD job.

However, we can still afford to fire Fox without any donor money as long as we replace him with a young up and coming coach at just over $1 million a year.

4thGenCal said:

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CalLifer said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

eastcoastcal said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

Big C said:

---

Regarding any possible firing of Fox in-season, I thought there might be a 10% chance that he would be let go after the non-conference games. Then Sunday's Beaver game was so bad, I thought there might be a 5% chance that he would be gone yesterday or today (wait, have they maybe announced a press conference?). At this point, I guess they wait until the week of the Pac 12 Tournament or the next workday after we are eliminated.

The important thing to note, though, is that a competent AD is free to be laying the groundwork for this over the next six weeks, even as the season plays out...
- gather the necessary funding
- contact trusted advisors to consult with as to who to hire
- hate to say the words "search firm", but sometimes they can identify candidates that Cal people aren't aware of
- start to develop a short list

If you keyed in on my words "a competent AD" above, hey, what can I say, but it looks like our current guy will get a second chance to show what he can do on this.

---

The issue is likely the $3.15M+ buyout total needed, assuming a April 1 termination. Are there enough passionate alums who will front the necessary monies? Remember there are competing areas of greatly needed NIL funds, Caliber funding, Excellence Club funding, Grid Club funding and supporting Olympic sports w/in the Cal Athletic programs. And those areas of donations/giving do not factor in the large funds needed for the Practice Facility. The sad state is that apathy is settling in and until a few wealthy passionate alums, who truly care about a winning program agree to step up - its far easier and to slog thru another dismal season. Not agreeing with the kick the can down the road, but the AD can likely say that another year means a lower buyout and does not detract funding from other needed areas. Its not a slam dunk that a termination occurs after the season.

---

Understood, however my message to JK would be that the $1.5M delta between firing after this season vs keeping for another season can probably be semi-recouped (perhaps not fully) by the difference in attendance. I am willing to bet that many of the remaining people who show up to games this season will not return to Haas for another season of Fox (I think I am one of them, and I'm a student!) versus the uptick in attendance that a new coach with a higher ceiling might provide.

Outside the fiscal aspect, what does it say about us as a program and school that we can have the worst season in our history (we would need 8 wins, aka 5 more in order to not have the worst win % in Cal history) and one of the worst seasons ever for a power conference team, and keep the coach for the next year after 4 miserable years? I think we'd be the laughingstock of the country, and rightfully so.

I just think it would be a total embarrassment if Fox is coaching next year, and probably the worst half-decade collapse in all of college sports, going from a 4 seed in the tournament to 6 years of miserable results and a program that can't even find the funds to buyout it's basement-dwelling coach.

That would be my thought process to Knowlton

---

Agreed and hopefully the termination decision is made, but its based on firm money commitments from those that are willing to pay for the buyout. And frankly if one key donor - leverages his potential big donation (practice facility or another area) on keeping Fox for one more season, that could also be a reason to delay the firing. Nothing has

---

The fact that there could be any big donor to Cal who would in any way want to keep Fox on, to the point that they would make keeping Fox a requirement for their donation, is so mind-boggling that I can not believe it is even remotely possible. Any competent Athletic Director could make a presentation or make the case why Fox should have been fired at several points throughout his tenure and could also make the case that it would be the height of AD malpractice to keep Fox on, and I would hope be able to tell said donor to go pound sand if that's the condition for the donation. It is 100% clear to me that Knowlton will do no such thing.

---

Agreed - The team under this HC/staff has gotten progressively worse (if that was originally thought possible) over the past 4 seasons. Its very likely that the HC has a litany of rationale explanations for the very poor and on going record to a key donor. And when a "persuasive" background is laid out (likely some valid points to attempt to cover up the obvious failings) the target key person can be swayed toward support. Separately the AD strongly believes and regardless of the opinions we have of him, that there are legit obstacles the Hoops HC faces at Cal.
The "excuses" brought up are: Deficient weight training areas (both in size and separated to indoor and outdoor) improved nutrition program needed, virtually no charter flights for away games (all other conf teams have this set up nearly in full capacity), no practice facility, challenging admission policies. And now above all factors is the key need for significant NIL $ - which needs far greater funds raised, than the generous recent efforts to aid the existing players. These are legit and key areas that Cal has not to this point effectively addressed and it is a clear recruiting hurdle. Its simply going to take the caring wealthy alums to have for certain, the $3.1M+ funds ready to buy out the HC. Thus that objection of not having the funds necessary to buy out the HC, is not there for the AD.

---

Yet all those conditions existed at Cal 7 years ago and we went undefeated at home and earned a 4 seed to the NCAA tournament and finished ranked.

St. Mary's has the 7th best team in the country according to Ken Pom. They do not have more resources than Cal.

We simply have an AD and a HC who horrible at their jobs but are masters at excuse making.

4thGenCal said:

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CalLifer said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

eastcoastcal said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

Big C said:

---

Regarding any possible firing of Fox in-season, I thought there might be a 10% chance that he would be let go after the non-conference games. Then Sunday's Beaver game was so bad, I thought there might be a 5% chance that he would be gone yesterday or today (wait, have they maybe announced a press conference?). At this point, I guess they wait until the week of the Pac 12 Tournament or the next workday after we are eliminated.

The important thing to note, though, is that a competent AD is free to be laying the groundwork for this over the next six weeks, even as the season plays out...
- gather the necessary funding
- contact trusted advisors to consult with as to who to hire
- hate to say the words "search firm", but sometimes they can identify candidates that Cal people aren't aware of
- start to develop a short list

If you keyed in on my words "a competent AD" above, hey, what can I say, but it looks like our current guy will get a second chance to show what he can do on this.

---

The issue is likely the $3.15M+ buyout total needed, assuming a April 1 termination. Are there enough passionate alums who will front the necessary monies? Remember there are competing areas of greatly needed NIL funds, Caliber funding, Excellence Club funding, Grid Club funding and supporting Olympic sports w/in the Cal Athletic programs. And those areas of donations/giving do not factor in the large funds needed for the Practice Facility. The sad state is that apathy is settling in and until a few wealthy passionate alums, who truly care about a winning program agree to step up - its far easier and to slog thru another dismal season. Not agreeing with the kick the can down the road, but the AD can likely say that another year means a lower buyout and does not detract funding from other needed areas. Its not a slam dunk that a termination occurs after the season.

---

Understood, however my message to JK would be that the $1.5M delta between firing after this season vs keeping for another season can probably be semi-recouped (perhaps not fully) by the difference in attendance. I am willing to bet that many of the remaining people who show up to games this season will not return to Haas for another season of Fox (I think I am one of them, and I'm a student!) versus the uptick in attendance that a new coach with a higher ceiling might provide.

Outside the fiscal aspect, what does it say about us as a program and school that we can have the worst season in our history (we would need 8 wins, aka 5 more in order to not have the worst win % in Cal history) and one of the worst seasons ever for a power conference team, and keep the coach for the next year after 4 miserable years? I think we'd be the laughingstock of the country, and rightfully so.

I just think it would be a total embarrassment if Fox is coaching next year, and probably the worst half-decade collapse in all of college sports, going from a 4 seed in the tournament to 6 years of miserable results and a program that can't even find the funds to buyout it's basement-dwelling coach.

That would be my thought process to Knowlton

---

Agreed and hopefully the termination decision is made, but its based on firm money commitments from those that are willing to pay for the buyout. And frankly if one key donor - leverages his potential big donation (practice facility or another area) on keeping Fox for one more season, that could also be a reason to delay the firing. Nothing has

---

The fact that there could be any big donor to Cal who would in any way want to keep Fox on, to the point that they would make keeping Fox a requirement for their donation, is so mind-boggling that I can not believe it is even remotely possible. Any competent Athletic Director could make a presentation or make the case why Fox should have been fired at several points throughout his tenure and could also make the case that it would be the height of AD malpractice to keep Fox on, and I would hope be able to tell said donor to go pound sand if that's the condition for the donation. It is 100% clear to me that Knowlton will do no such thing.

---

Agreed - The team under this HC/staff has gotten progressively worse (if that was originally thought possible) over the past 4 seasons. Its very likely that the HC has a litany of rationale explanations for the very poor and on going record to a key donor. And when a "persuasive" background is laid out (likely some valid points to attempt to cover up the obvious failings) the target key person can be swayed toward support. Separately the AD strongly believes and regardless of the opinions we have of him, that there are legit obstacles the Hoops HC faces at Cal.
The "excuses" brought up are: Deficient weight training areas (both in size and separated to indoor and outdoor) improved nutrition program needed, virtually no charter flights for away games (all other conf teams have this set up nearly in full capacity), no practice facility, challenging admission policies. And now above all factors is the key need for significant NIL $ - which needs far greater funds raised, than the generous recent efforts to aid the existing players. These are legit and key areas that Cal has not to this point effectively addressed and it is a clear recruiting hurdle. Its simply going to take the caring wealthy alums to have for certain, the $3.1M+ funds ready to buy out the HC. Thus that objection of not having the funds necessary to buy out the HC, is not there for the AD.

---

I thought that I had been depressed before about the state of Cal men's basketball, but this may be the most depressing thing I've read yet. The fact that there is a donor out there who would believe anything that could in any way excuse the last four years of awful performance... I just can't believe that is real.

And again, that we have an AD who has so little understanding of revenue sports that he would allow things to get to this state... again, I can't believe it is real.

Cal sports... making the completely unimagineable real!

4thGenCal said:

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CalLifer said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

eastcoastcal said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

Big C said:

---

Regarding any possible firing of Fox in-season, I thought there might be a 10% chance that he would be let go after the non-conference games. Then Sunday's Beaver game was so bad, I thought there might be a 5% chance that he would be gone yesterday or today (wait, have they maybe announced a press conference?). At this point, I guess they wait until the week of the Pac 12 Tournament or the next workday after we are eliminated.

The important thing to note, though, is that a competent AD is free to be laying the groundwork for this over the next six weeks, even as the season plays out...
- gather the necessary funding
- contact trusted advisors to consult with as to who to hire
- hate to say the words "search firm", but sometimes they can identify candidates that Cal people aren't aware of
- start to develop a short list

If you keyed in on my words "a competent AD" above, hey, what can I say, but it looks like our current guy will get a second chance to show what he can do on this.

---

The issue is likely the $3.15M+ buyout total needed, assuming a April 1 termination. Are there enough passionate alums who will front the necessary monies? Remember there are competing areas of greatly needed NIL funds, Caliber funding, Excellence Club funding, Grid Club funding and supporting Olympic sports w/in the Cal Athletic programs. And those areas of donations/giving do not factor in the large funds needed for the Practice Facility. The sad state is that apathy is settling in and until a few wealthy passionate alums, who truly care about a winning program agree to step up - its far easier and to slog thru another dismal season. Not agreeing with the kick the can down the road, but the AD can likely say that another year means a lower buyout and does not detract funding from other needed areas. Its not a slam dunk that a termination occurs after the season.

---

Understood, however my message to JK would be that the $1.5M delta between firing after this season vs keeping for another season can probably be semi-recouped (perhaps not fully) by the difference in attendance. I am willing to bet that many of the remaining people who show up to games this season will not return to Haas for another season of Fox (I think I am one of them, and I'm a student!) versus the uptick in attendance that a new coach with a higher ceiling might provide.

Outside the fiscal aspect, what does it say about us as a program and school that we can have the worst season in our history (we would need 8 wins, aka 5 more in order to not have the worst win % in Cal history) and one of the worst seasons ever for a power conference team, and keep the coach for the next year after 4 miserable years? I think we'd be the laughingstock of the country, and rightfully so.

I just think it would be a total embarrassment if Fox is coaching next year, and probably the worst half-decade collapse in all of college sports, going from a 4 seed in the tournament to 6 years of miserable results and a program that can't even find the funds to buyout it's basement-dwelling coach.

That would be my thought process to Knowlton

---

Agreed and hopefully the termination decision is made, but its based on firm money commitments from those that are willing to pay for the buyout. And frankly if one key donor - leverages his potential big donation (practice facility or another area) on keeping Fox for one more season, that could also be a reason to delay the firing. Nothing has

---

The fact that there could be any big donor to Cal who would in any way want to keep Fox on, to the point that they would make keeping Fox a requirement for their donation, is so mind-boggling that I can not believe it is even remotely possible. Any competent Athletic Director could make a presentation or make the case why Fox should have been fired at several points throughout his tenure and could also make the case that it would be the height of AD malpractice to keep Fox on, and I would hope be able to tell said donor to go pound sand if that's the condition for the donation. It is 100% clear to me that Knowlton will do no such thing.

---

Agreed - The team under this HC/staff has gotten progressively worse (if that was originally thought possible) over the past 4 seasons. Its very likely that the HC has a litany of rationale explanations for the very poor and on going record to a key donor. And when a "persuasive" background is laid out (likely some valid points to attempt to cover up the obvious failings) the target key person can be swayed toward support. Separately the AD strongly believes and regardless of the opinions we have of him, that there are legit obstacles the Hoops HC faces at Cal.
The "excuses" brought up are: Deficient weight training areas (both in size and separated to indoor and outdoor) improved nutrition program needed, virtually no charter flights for away games (all other conf teams have this set up nearly in full capacity), no practice facility, challenging admission policies. And now above all factors is the key need for significant NIL $ - which needs far greater funds raised, than the generous recent efforts to aid the existing players. These are legit and key areas that Cal has not to this point effectively addressed and it is a clear recruiting hurdle. Its simply going to take the caring wealthy alums to have for certain, the $3.1M+ funds ready to buy out the HC. Thus that objection of not having the funds necessary to buy out the HC, is not there for the AD.

---

Isn't it up to the AD to fix problems rather than just be aware of them? If charter flights are a problem, what has he done to fix the problem? He has been AD for almost 5 years. His accomplishments are few.

I can understand impediments to being national champion. But what are the impediments to beating UC Davis and UCSD, because what you named are not.

CalLifer said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

CalLifer said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

eastcoastcal said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

Big C said:

---

Regarding any possible firing of Fox in-season, I thought there might be a 10% chance that he would be let go after the non-conference games. Then Sunday's Beaver game was so bad, I thought there might be a 5% chance that he would be gone yesterday or today (wait, have they maybe announced a press conference?). At this point, I guess they wait until the week of the Pac 12 Tournament or the next workday after we are eliminated.

The important thing to note, though, is that a competent AD is free to be laying the groundwork for this over the next six weeks, even as the season plays out...
- gather the necessary funding
- contact trusted advisors to consult with as to who to hire
- hate to say the words "search firm", but sometimes they can identify candidates that Cal people aren't aware of
- start to develop a short list

If you keyed in on my words "a competent AD" above, hey, what can I say, but it looks like our current guy will get a second chance to show what he can do on this.

---

The issue is likely the $3.15M+ buyout total needed, assuming a April 1 termination. Are there enough passionate alums who will front the necessary monies? Remember there are competing areas of greatly needed NIL funds, Caliber funding, Excellence Club funding, Grid Club funding and supporting Olympic sports w/in the Cal Athletic programs. And those areas of donations/giving do not factor in the large funds needed for the Practice Facility. The sad state is that apathy is settling in and until a few wealthy passionate alums, who truly care about a winning program agree to step up - its far easier and to slog thru another dismal season. Not agreeing with the kick the can down the road, but the AD can likely say that another year means a lower buyout and does not detract funding from other needed areas. Its not a slam dunk that a termination occurs after the season.

---

Understood, however my message to JK would be that the $1.5M delta between firing after this season vs keeping for another season can probably be semi-recouped (perhaps not fully) by the difference in attendance. I am willing to bet that many of the remaining people who show up to games this season will not return to Haas for another season of Fox (I think I am one of them, and I'm a student!) versus the uptick in attendance that a new coach with a higher ceiling might provide.

Outside the fiscal aspect, what does it say about us as a program and school that we can have the worst season in our history (we would need 8 wins, aka 5 more in order to not have the worst win % in Cal history) and one of the worst seasons ever for a power conference team, and keep the coach for the next year after 4 miserable years? I think we'd be the laughingstock of the country, and rightfully so.

I just think it would be a total embarrassment if Fox is coaching next year, and probably the worst half-decade collapse in all of college sports, going from a 4 seed in the tournament to 6 years of miserable results and a program that can't even find the funds to buyout it's basement-dwelling coach.

That would be my thought process to Knowlton

---

Agreed and hopefully the termination decision is made, but its based on firm money commitments from those that are willing to pay for the buyout. And frankly if one key donor - leverages his potential big donation (practice facility or another area) on keeping Fox for one more season, that could also be a reason to delay the firing. Nothing has

---

The fact that there could be any big donor to Cal who would in any way want to keep Fox on, to the point that they would make keeping Fox a requirement for their donation, is so mind-boggling that I can not believe it is even remotely possible. Any competent Athletic Director could make a presentation or make the case why Fox should have been fired at several points throughout his tenure and could also make the case that it would be the height of AD malpractice to keep Fox on, and I would hope be able to tell said donor to go pound sand if that's the condition for the donation. It is 100% clear to me that Knowlton will do no such thing.

---

Agreed - The team under this HC/staff has gotten progressively worse (if that was originally thought possible) over the past 4 seasons. Its very likely that the HC has a litany of rationale explanations for the very poor and on going record to a key donor. And when a "persuasive" background is laid out (likely some valid points to attempt to cover up the obvious failings) the target key person can be swayed toward support. Separately the AD strongly believes and regardless of the opinions we have of him, that there are legit obstacles the Hoops HC faces at Cal.
The "excuses" brought up are: Deficient weight training areas (both in size and separated to indoor and outdoor) improved nutrition program needed, virtually no charter flights for away games (all other conf teams have this set up nearly in full capacity), no practice facility, challenging admission policies. And now above all factors is the key need for significant NIL $ - which needs far greater funds raised, than the generous recent efforts to aid the existing players. These are legit and key areas that Cal has not to this point effectively addressed and it is a clear recruiting hurdle. Its simply going to take the caring wealthy alums to have for certain, the $3.1M+ funds ready to buy out the HC. Thus that objection of not having the funds necessary to buy out the HC, is not there for the AD.

---

I thought that I had been depressed before about the state of Cal men's basketball, but this may be the most depressing thing I've read yet. The fact that there is a donor out there who would believe anything that could in any way excuse the last four years of awful performance... I just can't believe that is real.

And again, that we have an AD who has so little understanding of revenue sports that he would allow things to get to this state... again, I can't believe it is real.

Cal sports... making the completely unimagineable real!

---

Cal hired Wyking Jones AND Mark Fox. Nothing else can surprise me after those two decisions.

sluggo said:

---

CalLifer said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

CalLifer said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

eastcoastcal said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

Big C said:

---

Regarding any possible firing of Fox in-season, I thought there might be a 10% chance that he would be let go after the non-conference games. Then Sunday's Beaver game was so bad, I thought there might be a 5% chance that he would be gone yesterday or today (wait, have they maybe announced a press conference?). At this point, I guess they wait until the week of the Pac 12 Tournament or the next workday after we are eliminated.

The important thing to note, though, is that a competent AD is free to be laying the groundwork for this over the next six weeks, even as the season plays out...
- gather the necessary funding
- contact trusted advisors to consult with as to who to hire
- hate to say the words "search firm", but sometimes they can identify candidates that Cal people aren't aware of
- start to develop a short list

If you keyed in on my words "a competent AD" above, hey, what can I say, but it looks like our current guy will get a second chance to show what he can do on this.

---

The issue is likely the $3.15M+ buyout total needed, assuming a April 1 termination. Are there enough passionate alums who will front the necessary monies? Remember there are competing areas of greatly needed NIL funds, Caliber funding, Excellence Club funding, Grid Club funding and supporting Olympic sports w/in the Cal Athletic programs. And those areas of donations/giving do not factor in the large funds needed for the Practice Facility. The sad state is that apathy is settling in and until a few wealthy passionate alums, who truly care about a winning program agree to step up - its far easier and to slog thru another dismal season. Not agreeing with the kick the can down the road, but the AD can likely say that another year means a lower buyout and does not detract funding from other needed areas. Its not a slam dunk that a termination occurs after the season.

---

Understood, however my message to JK would be that the $1.5M delta between firing after this season vs keeping for another season can probably be semi-recouped (perhaps not fully) by the difference in attendance. I am willing to bet that many of the remaining people who show up to games this season will not return to Haas for another season of Fox (I think I am one of them, and I'm a student!) versus the uptick in attendance that a new coach with a higher ceiling might provide.

Outside the fiscal aspect, what does it say about us as a program and school that we can have the worst season in our history (we would need 8 wins, aka 5 more in order to not have the worst win % in Cal history) and one of the worst seasons ever for a power conference team, and keep the coach for the next year after 4 miserable years? I think we'd be the laughingstock of the country, and rightfully so.

I just think it would be a total embarrassment if Fox is coaching next year, and probably the worst half-decade collapse in all of college sports, going from a 4 seed in the tournament to 6 years of miserable results and a program that can't even find the funds to buyout it's basement-dwelling coach.

That would be my thought process to Knowlton

---

Agreed and hopefully the termination decision is made, but its based on firm money commitments from those that are willing to pay for the buyout. And frankly if one key donor - leverages his potential big donation (practice facility or another area) on keeping Fox for one more season, that could also be a reason to delay the firing. Nothing has

---

The fact that there could be any big donor to Cal who would in any way want to keep Fox on, to the point that they would make keeping Fox a requirement for their donation, is so mind-boggling that I can not believe it is even remotely possible. Any competent Athletic Director could make a presentation or make the case why Fox should have been fired at several points throughout his tenure and could also make the case that it would be the height of AD malpractice to keep Fox on, and I would hope be able to tell said donor to go pound sand if that's the condition for the donation. It is 100% clear to me that Knowlton will do no such thing.

---

Agreed - The team under this HC/staff has gotten progressively worse (if that was originally thought possible) over the past 4 seasons. Its very likely that the HC has a litany of rationale explanations for the very poor and on going record to a key donor. And when a "persuasive" background is laid out (likely some valid points to attempt to cover up the obvious failings) the target key person can be swayed toward support. Separately the AD strongly believes and regardless of the opinions we have of him, that there are legit obstacles the Hoops HC faces at Cal.
The "excuses" brought up are: Deficient weight training areas (both in size and separated to indoor and outdoor) improved nutrition program needed, virtually no charter flights for away games (all other conf teams have this set up nearly in full capacity), no practice facility, challenging admission policies. And now above all factors is the key need for significant NIL $ - which needs far greater funds raised, than the generous recent efforts to aid the existing players. These are legit and key areas that Cal has not to this point effectively addressed and it is a clear recruiting hurdle. Its simply going to take the caring wealthy alums to have for certain, the $3.1M+ funds ready to buy out the HC. Thus that objection of not having the funds necessary to buy out the HC, is not there for the AD.

---

I thought that I had been depressed before about the state of Cal men's basketball, but this may be the most depressing thing I've read yet. The fact that there is a donor out there who would believe anything that could in any way excuse the last four years of awful performance... I just can't believe that is real.

And again, that we have an AD who has so little understanding of revenue sports that he would allow things to get to this state... again, I can't believe it is real.

Cal sports... making the completely unimagineable real!

---

Cal hired Wyking Jones AND Mark Fox. Nothing else can surprise me after those two decisions.

---

Jones was a first time head coach and like Wilcox made rookie mistakes but was fired after only two years. He did assemble a good young team. Fox was a known entity, has no learning curve, is paid twice as much producing increasingly worse results as he drained the team of even the talent Wyking brought in but instead of getting fired got extended and the excuse makers are rallying around him as he delivers what will be the worst season in Cal history.

calumnus said:

---

sluggo said:

---

CalLifer said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

CalLifer said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

eastcoastcal said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

Big C said:

---

Regarding any possible firing of Fox in-season, I thought there might be a 10% chance that he would be let go after the non-conference games. Then Sunday's Beaver game was so bad, I thought there might be a 5% chance that he would be gone yesterday or today (wait, have they maybe announced a press conference?). At this point, I guess they wait until the week of the Pac 12 Tournament or the next workday after we are eliminated.

The important thing to note, though, is that a competent AD is free to be laying the groundwork for this over the next six weeks, even as the season plays out...
- gather the necessary funding
- contact trusted advisors to consult with as to who to hire
- hate to say the words "search firm", but sometimes they can identify candidates that Cal people aren't aware of
- start to develop a short list

If you keyed in on my words "a competent AD" above, hey, what can I say, but it looks like our current guy will get a second chance to show what he can do on this.

---

The issue is likely the $3.15M+ buyout total needed, assuming a April 1 termination. Are there enough passionate alums who will front the necessary monies? Remember there are competing areas of greatly needed NIL funds, Caliber funding, Excellence Club funding, Grid Club funding and supporting Olympic sports w/in the Cal Athletic programs. And those areas of donations/giving do not factor in the large funds needed for the Practice Facility. The sad state is that apathy is settling in and until a few wealthy passionate alums, who truly care about a winning program agree to step up - its far easier and to slog thru another dismal season. Not agreeing with the kick the can down the road, but the AD can likely say that another year means a lower buyout and does not detract funding from other needed areas. Its not a slam dunk that a termination occurs after the season.

---

Understood, however my message to JK would be that the $1.5M delta between firing after this season vs keeping for another season can probably be semi-recouped (perhaps not fully) by the difference in attendance. I am willing to bet that many of the remaining people who show up to games this season will not return to Haas for another season of Fox (I think I am one of them, and I'm a student!) versus the uptick in attendance that a new coach with a higher ceiling might provide.

Outside the fiscal aspect, what does it say about us as a program and school that we can have the worst season in our history (we would need 8 wins, aka 5 more in order to not have the worst win % in Cal history) and one of the worst seasons ever for a power conference team, and keep the coach for the next year after 4 miserable years? I think we'd be the laughingstock of the country, and rightfully so.

I just think it would be a total embarrassment if Fox is coaching next year, and probably the worst half-decade collapse in all of college sports, going from a 4 seed in the tournament to 6 years of miserable results and a program that can't even find the funds to buyout it's basement-dwelling coach.

That would be my thought process to Knowlton

---

Agreed and hopefully the termination decision is made, but its based on firm money commitments from those that are willing to pay for the buyout. And frankly if one key donor - leverages his potential big donation (practice facility or another area) on keeping Fox for one more season, that could also be a reason to delay the firing. Nothing has

---

The fact that there could be any big donor to Cal who would in any way want to keep Fox on, to the point that they would make keeping Fox a requirement for their donation, is so mind-boggling that I can not believe it is even remotely possible. Any competent Athletic Director could make a presentation or make the case why Fox should have been fired at several points throughout his tenure and could also make the case that it would be the height of AD malpractice to keep Fox on, and I would hope be able to tell said donor to go pound sand if that's the condition for the donation. It is 100% clear to me that Knowlton will do no such thing.

---

Agreed - The team under this HC/staff has gotten progressively worse (if that was originally thought possible) over the past 4 seasons. Its very likely that the HC has a litany of rationale explanations for the very poor and on going record to a key donor. And when a "persuasive" background is laid out (likely some valid points to attempt to cover up the obvious failings) the target key person can be swayed toward support. Separately the AD strongly believes and regardless of the opinions we have of him, that there are legit obstacles the Hoops HC faces at Cal.
The "excuses" brought up are: Deficient weight training areas (both in size and separated to indoor and outdoor) improved nutrition program needed, virtually no charter flights for away games (all other conf teams have this set up nearly in full capacity), no practice facility, challenging admission policies. And now above all factors is the key need for significant NIL $ - which needs far greater funds raised, than the generous recent efforts to aid the existing players. These are legit and key areas that Cal has not to this point effectively addressed and it is a clear recruiting hurdle. Its simply going to take the caring wealthy alums to have for certain, the $3.1M+ funds ready to buy out the HC. Thus that objection of not having the funds necessary to buy out the HC, is not there for the AD.

---

I thought that I had been depressed before about the state of Cal men's basketball, but this may be the most depressing thing I've read yet. The fact that there is a donor out there who would believe anything that could in any way excuse the last four years of awful performance... I just can't believe that is real.

And again, that we have an AD who has so little understanding of revenue sports that he would allow things to get to this state... again, I can't believe it is real.

Cal sports... making the completely unimagineable real!

---

Cal hired Wyking Jones AND Mark Fox. Nothing else can surprise me after those two decisions.

---

Jones was a first time head coach and like Wilcox made rookie mistakes but was fired after only two years. He did assemble a good young team. Fox was a known entity, has no learning curve, is paid twice as much producing increasingly worse results as he drained the team of even the talent Wyking brought in but instead of getting fired got extended and the excuse makers are rallying around him as he delivers what will be the worst season in Cal history.

---

Jones did not assemble a good team. He assembled some talent. The team was dreadful. I thought it was a mistake to hire him because he had not been a significant assistant. Fox was a mistake because he was a known quantity, as you knew more than any of the rest of us. I just looked at his record and history and was dismayed.

sluggo said:

---

calumnus said:

---

sluggo said:

---

CalLifer said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

CalLifer said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

eastcoastcal said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

Big C said:

---

Regarding any possible firing of Fox in-season, I thought there might be a 10% chance that he would be let go after the non-conference games. Then Sunday's Beaver game was so bad, I thought there might be a 5% chance that he would be gone yesterday or today (wait, have they maybe announced a press conference?). At this point, I guess they wait until the week of the Pac 12 Tournament or the next workday after we are eliminated.

The important thing to note, though, is that a competent AD is free to be laying the groundwork for this over the next six weeks, even as the season plays out...
- gather the necessary funding
- contact trusted advisors to consult with as to who to hire
- hate to say the words "search firm", but sometimes they can identify candidates that Cal people aren't aware of
- start to develop a short list

If you keyed in on my words "a competent AD" above, hey, what can I say, but it looks like our current guy will get a second chance to show what he can do on this.

---

The issue is likely the $3.15M+ buyout total needed, assuming a April 1 termination. Are there enough passionate alums who will front the necessary monies? Remember there are competing areas of greatly needed NIL funds, Caliber funding, Excellence Club funding, Grid Club funding and supporting Olympic sports w/in the Cal Athletic programs. And those areas of donations/giving do not factor in the large funds needed for the Practice Facility. The sad state is that apathy is settling in and until a few wealthy passionate alums, who truly care about a winning program agree to step up - its far easier and to slog thru another dismal season. Not agreeing with the kick the can down the road, but the AD can likely say that another year means a lower buyout and does not detract funding from other needed areas. Its not a slam dunk that a termination occurs after the season.

---

Understood, however my message to JK would be that the $1.5M delta between firing after this season vs keeping for another season can probably be semi-recouped (perhaps not fully) by the difference in attendance. I am willing to bet that many of the remaining people who show up to games this season will not return to Haas for another season of Fox (I think I am one of them, and I'm a student!) versus the uptick in attendance that a new coach with a higher ceiling might provide.

Outside the fiscal aspect, what does it say about us as a program and school that we can have the worst season in our history (we would need 8 wins, aka 5 more in order to not have the worst win % in Cal history) and one of the worst seasons ever for a power conference team, and keep the coach for the next year after 4 miserable years? I think we'd be the laughingstock of the country, and rightfully so.

I just think it would be a total embarrassment if Fox is coaching next year, and probably the worst half-decade collapse in all of college sports, going from a 4 seed in the tournament to 6 years of miserable results and a program that can't even find the funds to buyout it's basement-dwelling coach.

That would be my thought process to Knowlton

---

Agreed and hopefully the termination decision is made, but its based on firm money commitments from those that are willing to pay for the buyout. And frankly if one key donor - leverages his potential big donation (practice facility or another area) on keeping Fox for one more season, that could also be a reason to delay the firing. Nothing has

---

The fact that there could be any big donor to Cal who would in any way want to keep Fox on, to the point that they would make keeping Fox a requirement for their donation, is so mind-boggling that I can not believe it is even remotely possible. Any competent Athletic Director could make a presentation or make the case why Fox should have been fired at several points throughout his tenure and could also make the case that it would be the height of AD malpractice to keep Fox on, and I would hope be able to tell said donor to go pound sand if that's the condition for the donation. It is 100% clear to me that Knowlton will do no such thing.

---

Agreed - The team under this HC/staff has gotten progressively worse (if that was originally thought possible) over the past 4 seasons. Its very likely that the HC has a litany of rationale explanations for the very poor and on going record to a key donor. And when a "persuasive" background is laid out (likely some valid points to attempt to cover up the obvious failings) the target key person can be swayed toward support. Separately the AD strongly believes and regardless of the opinions we have of him, that there are legit obstacles the Hoops HC faces at Cal.
The "excuses" brought up are: Deficient weight training areas (both in size and separated to indoor and outdoor) improved nutrition program needed, virtually no charter flights for away games (all other conf teams have this set up nearly in full capacity), no practice facility, challenging admission policies. And now above all factors is the key need for significant NIL $ - which needs far greater funds raised, than the generous recent efforts to aid the existing players. These are legit and key areas that Cal has not to this point effectively addressed and it is a clear recruiting hurdle. Its simply going to take the caring wealthy alums to have for certain, the $3.1M+ funds ready to buy out the HC. Thus that objection of not having the funds necessary to buy out the HC, is not there for the AD.

---

I thought that I had been depressed before about the state of Cal men's basketball, but this may be the most depressing thing I've read yet. The fact that there is a donor out there who would believe anything that could in any way excuse the last four years of awful performance... I just can't believe that is real.

And again, that we have an AD who has so little understanding of revenue sports that he would allow things to get to this state... again, I can't believe it is real.

Cal sports... making the completely unimagineable real!

---

Cal hired Wyking Jones AND Mark Fox. Nothing else can surprise me after those two decisions.

---

Jones was a first time head coach and like Wilcox made rookie mistakes but was fired after only two years. He did assemble a good young team. Fox was a known entity, has no learning curve, is paid twice as much producing increasingly worse results as he drained the team of even the talent Wyking brought in but instead of getting fired got extended and the excuse makers are rallying around him as he delivers what will be the worst season in Cal history.

---

Jones did not assemble a good team. He assembled some talent. The team was dreadful. I thought it was a mistake to hire him because he had not been a significant assistant. Fox was a mistake because he was a known quantity, as you knew more than any of the rest of us. I just looked at his record and history and was dismayed.

---

What I mean is that the core future starting five: Vanover, Kelly, Sueing, Bradley, Paris (Grant as sixth man) was a good young "collection of players" (ie a "team") that was just poorly coached (including not seeing that those 5 were the best players). With good coaching they are a top team in the PAC-12 as juniors and seniors (not including future additions). Fox does not get a pass for driving them all off. If he is fired now, the team he leaves behind will be far less talented than the team he inherited.

I thibk McKeever had clearly benefited from protection from key donors.

stu said:

---

Is(are) there some major donor(s) who have a strong affinity for Knowlton, Fox, and McKeever?

---

My sense is that, up until about a year and a half ago, the major donors were largely pleased with Knowlton. But at that point, football got worse instead of getting better. And basketball, we know... Then there was McKeeverGate. Then there is our conference situation. Then we started football last fall w/o yell leaders, etc. Hard to find many positives in the past 18 mos.

Big C said:

---

stu said:

---

Is(are) there some major donor(s) who have a strong affinity for Knowlton, Fox, and McKeever?

---

My sense is that, up until about a year and a half ago, the major donors were largely pleased with Knowlton. But at that point, football got worse instead of getting better. And basketball, we know... Then there was McKeeverGate. Then there is our conference situation. Then we started football last fall w/o yell leaders, etc. Hard to find many positives in the past 18 mos.

---

Yes, if you take this board as an indicator, a little over a year ago most were celebrating Knowlton extending Wilcox 5 years because he interviewed/possibly offered at Oregon. Those of us who said it was idiocy to extend Wilcox without seeing if he can turn it around in 2022 were a distinct minority. A year ago people were arguing Musgrave was good, but Garbers was bad and we would be finally great with Plummer.

Similarly, a year ago people here were still arguing thst Williams, Cuonzo and Jones were the cause of our current problems in men's basketball. Every single player that left the program since Fox was hired explained as leaving for some reason other than the head coach. Some people bought the COVID excuse for our record conference losses. The AD blamed the City of Berkeley and found a ready audience.
The "you can't win at Cal" trope was resurrected. People are stil talking about the need for a $130 million practice facility despite there being a lot of basketball courts on campus, our winning recently with the current facilities and our being well into the NIL era.

Insiders still claim Christ "is the best Chancellor for athletics in Cal history" despite her principle role in athletics being to hire a good AD and instead she hired the worst AD I have ever seen, gave him a ridiculous $1.3 million salary and then an 8 year contract extension.

So yeah, part of what makes the current era so dangerous is we have big donors buying what Christ and Knowlton are slinging when they are clearly clueless. That Knowlton is trying to solicit donations to fix the problem he created is not surprising. The latest news that a big donor is making his donation for the practice facility contingent on retaining Fox is stunning. Unless that is just more disinformation coming from the AD office….

If I've learned anything in my Cal fandom, it's that there will always be donors willing to fork over huge sums of money to get rid of bad coaches so that bad AD's can hire the next bad coach.

Empty seats are what get coaches at Cal fired, not wins and losses.

calumnus said:

---

Big C said:

---

stu said:

---

Is(are) there some major donor(s) who have a strong affinity for Knowlton, Fox, and McKeever?

---

My sense is that, up until about a year and a half ago, the major donors were largely pleased with Knowlton. But at that point, football got worse instead of getting better. And basketball, we know... Then there was McKeeverGate. Then there is our conference situation. Then we started football last fall w/o yell leaders, etc. Hard to find many positives in the past 18 mos.

---

Yes, if you take this board as an indicator, a little over a year ago most were celebrating Knowlton extending Wilcox 5 years because he interviewed/possibly offered at Oregon. Those of us who said it was idiocy to extend Wilcox without seeing if he can turn it around in 2022 were a distinct minority. A year ago people were arguing Musgrave was good, but Garbers was bad and we would be finally great with Plummer.

Similarly, a year ago people here were still arguing thst Williams, Cuonzo and Jones were the cause of our current problems in men's basketball. Every single player that left the program since Fox was hired explained as leaving for some reason other than the head coach. Some people bought the COVID excuse for our record conference losses. The "you can't win at Cal" trope was resurrected. People are stil talking about the need for a $130 million practice facility despite there being a lot of basketball courts on campus, our winning recently with the current facilities and our being well into the NIL era.

Insiders still claim Christ "is the best Chancellor for athletics in Cal history" despite her principle role in athletics being to hire a good AD and instead she hired the worst AD I have ever seen, gave him a ridiculous $1.3 million salary and then an 8 year contract extension.

So yeah, part of what makes the current era so dangerous is we have big donors buying what Christ and Knowlton are slinging when they are clearly clueless. That Knowlton is trying to solicit donations to fix the problem he created is not surprising. The latest news that a big donor is making his donation for the practice facility contingent on retaining Fox is stunning. Unless that is just more disinformation coming from the AD office….

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To be fair I think there was a possibility - based upon the progess Fox showed in the last 1/3 of the first year that he COULD teach. The last 2 though have proven that either he lost the ability to connect with people or that Matt covered up a lot of the flaws. This year should have underscored his ineptitude.

I am not convinced that someone is protecting Fox. Maybe. Sounds like AD disinformation.

kinda cherry picking aren't we?

yeah, there are some posters who agree with each thing you listed

but how many and what proportion are we talking about?

i'm often in bewilderment when there are people who argue so hard against a very minority opinion

and I doubt there is even one or two posters who agree with everything you listed

calumnus said:

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Big C said:

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stu said:

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Is(are) there some major donor(s) who have a strong affinity for Knowlton, Fox, and McKeever?

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My sense is that, up until about a year and a half ago, the major donors were largely pleased with Knowlton. But at that point, football got worse instead of getting better. And basketball, we know... Then there was McKeeverGate. Then there is our conference situation. Then we started football last fall w/o yell leaders, etc. Hard to find many positives in the past 18 mos.

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Yes, if you take this board as an indicator, a little over a year ago most were celebrating Knowlton extending Wilcox 5 years because he interviewed/possibly offered at Oregon. Those of us who said it was idiocy to extend Wilcox without seeing if he can turn it around in 2022 were a distinct minority. A year ago people were arguing Musgrave was good, but Garbers was bad and we would be finally great with Plummer.

Similarly, a year ago people here were still arguing thst Williams, Cuonzo and Jones were the cause of our current problems in men's basketball. Every single player that left the program since Fox was hired explained as leaving for some reason other than the head coach. Some people bought the COVID excuse for our record conference losses. The AD blamed the City of Berkeley and found a ready audience.
The "you can't win at Cal" trope was resurrected. People are stil talking about the need for a $130 million practice facility despite there being a lot of basketball courts on campus, our winning recently with the current facilities and our being well into the NIL era.

Insiders still claim Christ "is the best Chancellor for athletics in Cal history" despite her principle role in athletics being to hire a good AD and instead she hired the worst AD I have ever seen, gave him a ridiculous $1.3 million salary and then an 8 year contract extension.

So yeah, part of what makes the current era so dangerous is we have big donors buying what Christ and Knowlton are slinging when they are clearly clueless. That Knowlton is trying to solicit donations to fix the problem he created is not surprising. The latest news that a big donor is making his donation for the practice facility contingent on retaining Fox is stunning. Unless that is just more disinformation coming from the AD office….

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Knowlton's best trick was to come in right after Mike Williams. Hey, this guy can-and-will actually talk with people... he's amazing! That bought him a couple of years right there.

socaltownie said:

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calumnus said:

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Big C said:

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stu said:

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Is(are) there some major donor(s) who have a strong affinity for Knowlton, Fox, and McKeever?

---

My sense is that, up until about a year and a half ago, the major donors were largely pleased with Knowlton. But at that point, football got worse instead of getting better. And basketball, we know... Then there was McKeeverGate. Then there is our conference situation. Then we started football last fall w/o yell leaders, etc. Hard to find many positives in the past 18 mos.

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Yes, if you take this board as an indicator, a little over a year ago most were celebrating Knowlton extending Wilcox 5 years because he interviewed/possibly offered at Oregon. Those of us who said it was idiocy to extend Wilcox without seeing if he can turn it around in 2022 were a distinct minority. A year ago people were arguing Musgrave was good, but Garbers was bad and we would be finally great with Plummer.

Similarly, a year ago people here were still arguing thst Williams, Cuonzo and Jones were the cause of our current problems in men's basketball. Every single player that left the program since Fox was hired explained as leaving for some reason other than the head coach. Some people bought the COVID excuse for our record conference losses. The "you can't win at Cal" trope was resurrected. People are stil talking about the need for a $130 million practice facility despite there being a lot of basketball courts on campus, our winning recently with the current facilities and our being well into the NIL era.

Insiders still claim Christ "is the best Chancellor for athletics in Cal history" despite her principle role in athletics being to hire a good AD and instead she hired the worst AD I have ever seen, gave him a ridiculous $1.3 million salary and then an 8 year contract extension.

So yeah, part of what makes the current era so dangerous is we have big donors buying what Christ and Knowlton are slinging when they are clearly clueless. That Knowlton is trying to solicit donations to fix the problem he created is not surprising. The latest news that a big donor is making his donation for the practice facility contingent on retaining Fox is stunning. Unless that is just more disinformation coming from the AD office….

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To be fair I think there was a possibility - based upon the progess Fox showed in the last 1/3 of the first year that he COULD teach. The last 2 though have proven that either he lost the ability to connect with people or that Matt covered up a lot of the flaws. This year should have underscored his ineptitude.

I am not convinced that someone is protecting Fox. Maybe. Sounds like AD disinformation.

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Fox is so horrible, BOTH in terms of winning and in terms of being a good leader for Cal student athletes that I have big trouble imagining someone making a donation contingent on retaining Fox, disinformation seems much more likely.

I still think there is a possibility that Fox can teach some. In terms of fundamentals, the team had great improvement over Jones in that first year, and frankly, is still better in terms of fundamentals.

But I don't think Fox lost the ability to connect with student-athletes, because you can't lose what you never had. I think he knows how to connect with a middle age military guy like Knowlton, but not high school or college basketball players - unfortunately, Knowlton said the former was a big factor in hiring Fox, and said nothing about the latter being a factor. That first meeting with players when Fox was hired showed he didn't know how to connect. And that inability has caused the program to go deep into a Foxhole, and we can only climb out of with a new coach.

As HoopDreams pointed out, calumnus is cherry picking when it comes to this board, a year ago I'm not sure anybody thought Fox could ever get Cal out of the bottom half of the Pac. Cuonzo did cause problems, but not so many that a good coach couldn't get us out fairly quick, the Williams/Jones debacle was horrible, but again, not so bad that a good coach couldn't get us out fairly quick. Even the Foxhole is survivable, except that I think the "board consensus" is a) we're worried Fox won't be gone after this year, and b) we have no faith that Knowlton can pick a decent successor even if he does FireFox.

There was a clear board consensus when Fox was hired that it was a bad idea, even those who were ok with it weren't in love with it, but plenty saw it as a huge Knowlton fail, and the view of Knowlton since then has only gotten worse.

I'm not well in touch with the donor community, but I don't think the problem is that the donor community is buying what Christ and Knowlton are selling, because my sense is that, with the possible exception of some very small numbers, I don't think they are buying what Knowlton is selling.