WOW! (Monty Buckley post game)

11,766 Views | 85 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by stu
calumnus
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Jeff82 said:

SFCityBear said:

Jeff82 said:

The problem was Gardner, who couldn't defend at the point and was a master of the high dribble which got him picked clean fairly regularly.

I kid you not, I saw him play one game, turned to my father and said "That kid is going to be a problem." It was obvious that Gardner and his father thought he was a better player than he was.

We didn't get good until Gardner left (along with Bozeman) and Anwar McQueen went to the point. In truth, Braun's first team (96-97, I think) would have gone to the Final Four had Ed Gray not broken his ankle against Washington State, That team had all the pieces.
Yes, and if Tyrone Wallace and Jabari Bird had not gotten hurt, there are many here who said Cal might have reached the Final Four in 2016. Going back further, if Darrall Imhoff does not get the flu, maybe Cal wins the NCAA Final in 1960. Injuries or illnesses are really critical, more so in modern times, because they occur more frequently now than ever before.
As for 1960, it didn't help that we had another death struggle against Oscar R. and Cincinnati in the semis, whereas tOSU had a cakewalk against NYU.

It's possible the 2016 team could have gone deep without the injuries. In the tournament, Cuonzo's lack of a structured offense would have been less of a problem than in the regular season, because defense and athleticism predominate. Had we really gone to the Final Four, Martin would have gotten the huge contract here, and maybe he would still be here.


Yeah, Martin did take a far less talented Tennessee team to the Sweet 16 and it is not like he was good then and forgot offense when he got to Cal. Some really bad luck that year, especially the injuries, but the national publicized sexual harassment scandal announced the day before leaving for the Tournament was unbelievably horrible on the part of our administration. They could not have done worse if they were trying to sabotage the program.
wifeisafurd
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Glory days well they'll pass you by
Glory days in the wink of a young girl's eye
Glory days, glory days
93Bear
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Civil Bear said:

stu said:

According to Sports Reference, Monty Buckley did not miss half of any season. Games played:
24 in 1991-92
28 in 1992-93
29 in 1993-94
27 in 1994-95
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/monty-buckley-1.html

Yikes, I stand corrected. My misremembering of the suspension makes me think I may be wrong about the bookbag incident as well. My apologies for the post and all prior posts on the matter, especially to Monty.
I certainly don't want to perpetuate any rumors that are untrue, but I was a student at the time and remember the same thing Civil Bear alluded to about a backpack.
bearister
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GoCal80 said:




Quite a bit of talent we had back in the day:

Monty Buckley, Randy Duck, Tremaine Fowlkes, Jelani Gardner, Tony Gonzalez, Alfred Grigsby, Ryan Jamison, Sean Marks, Anwar McQueen, K. J. Roberts, Michael Stewart, Jason Kidd




*What ya figure the differential would be between the amount of times Lars was doubled teamed vs Ryan. For starters, Ryan wasn't doubled teamed even once. Plus Ryan had far more skilled teammates than Lars.
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dimitrig
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93Bear said:

Civil Bear said:

stu said:

According to Sports Reference, Monty Buckley did not miss half of any season. Games played:
24 in 1991-92
28 in 1992-93
29 in 1993-94
27 in 1994-95
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/monty-buckley-1.html

Yikes, I stand corrected. My misremembering of the suspension makes me think I may be wrong about the bookbag incident as well. My apologies for the post and all prior posts on the matter, especially to Monty.
I certainly don't want to perpetuate any rumors that are untrue, but I was a student at the time and remember the same thing Civil Bear alluded to about a backpack.


Might be true, but a long suspension certainly didn't happen.

GMP
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SFCityBear said:

calumnus said:

ducky23 said:

Big C said:

stu said:

Not sure I'd recognize Jerrod Haase.

LOL, Monte Buckly and KJ Roberts wouldn't recognize Jerrod Haase these days.


Bobby Hurley looks exactly the same. He hasn't aged a bit.

All the former players need to write a joint letter to knowlton basically telling him there was once a time that cal basketball was great and that he is single handily ruining the legacy they worked so hard to build.

It's still unclear to me if knowlton really understands what he's doing to cal basketball


Knowlton is a know-nothing. He is a hockey guy. He knows nothing about the revenue sports and probably thinks Cal basketball is just like Air Force basketball where he also sat smiling through 3 years of single digit win seasons doing nothing because, Air Force.
Pickin' cherries. You might have written "single digit CONFERENCE win seasons", to be more accurate. In the 43 years that Air Force has been playing conference basketball, in the WAC or MWC, there have been only 3 Air Force teams to register "double-digit" winning conference seasons.

Overall, Air Force's BB teams under Knowlton's AD tenure won 5, 4, and 6 conference games, averaging 5 wins per year. And in those 43 years, there have been 27 AF teams who racked up fewer than 5 conference wins in a season.

Overall, in the Knowlton era, Air Force won 14, 12, and 12 games in 2016, 2017, and 2018, respectively. In the last 43 seasons, there are only 6 Air Force teams who have won 14 games or more, and only 12 Air Force teams who have won 12 games or more.

Air Force obviously is not a premier college basketball program, or even an average one, with very little success to show for all its years of trying to compete in the sport. There have been a few good players: NBA Coach Greg Popopvich was a star playing for Air Force, and Tom Schneeberger played on the US Olympic team in 1978, and another player made it to the D League and is playing pro in France.

Military Academies are very handicapped when it comes to recruiting. There are height and weight restrictions. The maximum height for a cadet applicant is 6'-8". Entrance requirements are stiffer than Cal's, though Cal's acceptance rate is 11%, Air Force's 10%. A cadet also needs to be nominated by a senator or congressman, I believe. Graduates have been restricted from delaying their military service to turn pro after graduation. In 2019 President Trump issued an order to the Defense Department to rescind this requirement and allow cadets to delay service to play pro ball, but in 2021, the DOD denied a Navy cadet his request to delay service to play pro, and I heard that the DOD is being asked to write new rules rescinding the Trump order.

Knowlton had one of the best records of Air Force ADs as to basketball, and I suspect there was no pressure on him to do more than any AD prior to him. He had a very full plate. Did you know that every single cadet must take PE classes every semester? And did you know every single cadet is required to play a team sport? Either NCAA sports, Club teams, or Intramural teams. Isn't that all voluntary at Cal?

I think Cal hired him to concentrate more on the non-revenue sports, and maybe de-emphasize the revenue sports. Since the latter part of the Waldorf era, with the recruiting scandals, there has been a tug of war between those who want to emphasize academics and those who want to emphasize sports. Throw in Title IX, and the withdrawal of State funding, and you have big problems for any AD. Knowlton is just a pawn in the game, in my opinion. The power to change direction lays with Christ or those above her, the Regents, the Legislature, and the Governor.











You're right. Knowlton is excellent and so is the Cal basketball program.
SFCityBear
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Jeff82 said:

SFCityBear said:

Jeff82 said:

The problem was Gardner, who couldn't defend at the point and was a master of the high dribble which got him picked clean fairly regularly.

I kid you not, I saw him play one game, turned to my father and said "That kid is going to be a problem." It was obvious that Gardner and his father thought he was a better player than he was.

We didn't get good until Gardner left (along with Bozeman) and Anwar McQueen went to the point. In truth, Braun's first team (96-97, I think) would have gone to the Final Four had Ed Gray not broken his ankle against Washington State, That team had all the pieces.
Yes, and if Tyrone Wallace and Jabari Bird had not gotten hurt, there are many here who said Cal might have reached the Final Four in 2016. Going back further, if Darrall Imhoff does not get the flu, maybe Cal wins the NCAA Final in 1960. Injuries or illnesses are really critical, more so in modern times, because they occur more frequently now than ever before.
As for 1960, it didn't help that we had another death struggle against Oscar R. and Cincinnati in the semis, whereas tOSU had a cakewalk against NYU.

It's possible the 2016 team could have gone deep without the injuries. In the tournament, Cuonzo's lack of a structured offense would have been less of a problem than in the regular season, because defense and athleticism predominate. Had we really gone to the Final Four, Martin would have gotten the huge contract here, and maybe he would still be here.
I was focusing on the injury aspect you mentioned, but you are right about the rest of it. I went to both games of the Final Four in 1960. The Semi Final with Cal against The Big O and Cincinnati was a really hard fought game that went to the wire. Ohio State had 5 starters who went on to play in the NBA, with two of them, Lucas and Havlicek becoming top 50 players ever, and Hall of Famers. NYU had one fine player, Tom "Satch" Sanders. In those days, I think nearly all of Cal's games in the NCAA and in the conference were always played on back-to-back nights, Friday and Saturday, with 6 days to rest between series, so if a player had fatigue, illness or injury in the first game, he had less chance to recover and become healthy for the second game the next night, and that affected the play and results.
SFCityBear
bearister
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SFCityBear said:

…The power to change direction lays with Christ….



Something tells me you took those Jesus Super Bowl ads way too seriously.
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calumnus
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GMP said:

SFCityBear said:

calumnus said:

ducky23 said:

Big C said:

stu said:

Not sure I'd recognize Jerrod Haase.

LOL, Monte Buckly and KJ Roberts wouldn't recognize Jerrod Haase these days.


Bobby Hurley looks exactly the same. He hasn't aged a bit.

All the former players need to write a joint letter to knowlton basically telling him there was once a time that cal basketball was great and that he is single handily ruining the legacy they worked so hard to build.

It's still unclear to me if knowlton really understands what he's doing to cal basketball


Knowlton is a know-nothing. He is a hockey guy. He knows nothing about the revenue sports and probably thinks Cal basketball is just like Air Force basketball where he also sat smiling through 3 years of single digit win seasons doing nothing because, Air Force.
Pickin' cherries. You might have written "single digit CONFERENCE win seasons", to be more accurate. In the 43 years that Air Force has been playing conference basketball, in the WAC or MWC, there have been only 3 Air Force teams to register "double-digit" winning conference seasons.

Overall, Air Force's BB teams under Knowlton's AD tenure won 5, 4, and 6 conference games, averaging 5 wins per year. And in those 43 years, there have been 27 AF teams who racked up fewer than 5 conference wins in a season.

Overall, in the Knowlton era, Air Force won 14, 12, and 12 games in 2016, 2017, and 2018, respectively. In the last 43 seasons, there are only 6 Air Force teams who have won 14 games or more, and only 12 Air Force teams who have won 12 games or more.

Air Force obviously is not a premier college basketball program, or even an average one, with very little success to show for all its years of trying to compete in the sport. There have been a few good players: NBA Coach Greg Popopvich was a star playing for Air Force, and Tom Schneeberger played on the US Olympic team in 1978, and another player made it to the D League and is playing pro in France.

Military Academies are very handicapped when it comes to recruiting. There are height and weight restrictions. The maximum height for a cadet applicant is 6'-8". Entrance requirements are stiffer than Cal's, though Cal's acceptance rate is 11%, Air Force's 10%. A cadet also needs to be nominated by a senator or congressman, I believe. Graduates have been restricted from delaying their military service to turn pro after graduation. In 2019 President Trump issued an order to the Defense Department to rescind this requirement and allow cadets to delay service to play pro ball, but in 2021, the DOD denied a Navy cadet his request to delay service to play pro, and I heard that the DOD is being asked to write new rules rescinding the Trump order.

Knowlton had one of the best records of Air Force ADs as to basketball, and I suspect there was no pressure on him to do more than any AD prior to him. He had a very full plate. Did you know that every single cadet must take PE classes every semester? And did you know every single cadet is required to play a team sport? Either NCAA sports, Club teams, or Intramural teams. Isn't that all voluntary at Cal?

I think Cal hired him to concentrate more on the non-revenue sports, and maybe de-emphasize the revenue sports. Since the latter part of the Waldorf era, with the recruiting scandals, there has been a tug of war between those who want to emphasize academics and those who want to emphasize sports. Throw in Title IX, and the withdrawal of State funding, and you have big problems for any AD. Knowlton is just a pawn in the game, in my opinion. The power to change direction lays with Christ or those above her, the Regents, the Legislature, and the Governor.











You're right. Knowlton is excellent and so is the Cal basketball program.

It is tiresome.

And in his efforts to defend Knowlton (who did not hire or fire a basketball coach at Air Force) and refute my post he actually supported what I was saying: that Air Force is a place that losing in basketball is expected, there is no pressure to win, and Knowlton seems to have ignorantly thought Cal was the same.
bluesaxe
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SFCityBear said:

calumnus said:

ducky23 said:

Big C said:

stu said:

Not sure I'd recognize Jerrod Haase.

LOL, Monte Buckly and KJ Roberts wouldn't recognize Jerrod Haase these days.


Bobby Hurley looks exactly the same. He hasn't aged a bit.

All the former players need to write a joint letter to knowlton basically telling him there was once a time that cal basketball was great and that he is single handily ruining the legacy they worked so hard to build.

It's still unclear to me if knowlton really understands what he's doing to cal basketball


Knowlton is a know-nothing. He is a hockey guy. He knows nothing about the revenue sports and probably thinks Cal basketball is just like Air Force basketball where he also sat smiling through 3 years of single digit win seasons doing nothing because, Air Force.
Pickin' cherries. You might have written "single digit CONFERENCE win seasons", to be more accurate. In the 43 years that Air Force has been playing conference basketball, in the WAC or MWC, there have been only 3 Air Force teams to register "double-digit" winning conference seasons.

Overall, Air Force's BB teams under Knowlton's AD tenure won 5, 4, and 6 conference games, averaging 5 wins per year. And in those 43 years, there have been 27 AF teams who racked up fewer than 5 conference wins in a season.

Overall, in the Knowlton era, Air Force won 14, 12, and 12 games in 2016, 2017, and 2018, respectively. In the last 43 seasons, there are only 6 Air Force teams who have won 14 games or more, and only 12 Air Force teams who have won 12 games or more.

Air Force obviously is not a premier college basketball program, or even an average one, with very little success to show for all its years of trying to compete in the sport. There have been a few good players: NBA Coach Greg Popopvich was a star playing for Air Force, and Tom Schneeberger played on the US Olympic team in 1978, and another player made it to the D League and is playing pro in France.

Military Academies are very handicapped when it comes to recruiting. There are height and weight restrictions. The maximum height for a cadet applicant is 6'-8". Entrance requirements are stiffer than Cal's, though Cal's acceptance rate is 11%, Air Force's 10%. A cadet also needs to be nominated by a senator or congressman, I believe. Graduates have been restricted from delaying their military service to turn pro after graduation. In 2019 President Trump issued an order to the Defense Department to rescind this requirement and allow cadets to delay service to play pro ball, but in 2021, the DOD denied a Navy cadet his request to delay service to play pro, and I heard that the DOD is being asked to write new rules rescinding the Trump order.

Knowlton had one of the best records of Air Force ADs as to basketball, and I suspect there was no pressure on him to do more than any AD prior to him. He had a very full plate. Did you know that every single cadet must take PE classes every semester? And did you know every single cadet is required to play a team sport? Either NCAA sports, Club teams, or Intramural teams. Isn't that all voluntary at Cal?

I think Cal hired him to concentrate more on the non-revenue sports, and maybe de-emphasize the revenue sports. Since the latter part of the Waldorf era, with the recruiting scandals, there has been a tug of war between those who want to emphasize academics and those who want to emphasize sports. Throw in Title IX, and the withdrawal of State funding, and you have big problems for any AD. Knowlton is just a pawn in the game, in my opinion. The power to change direction lays with Christ or those above her, the Regents, the Legislature, and the Governor.









"Overall, Air Force's BB teams under Knowlton's AD tenure won 5, 4, and 6 conference games, averaging 5 wins per year." So with all those hurdles they won more conference games in those years than Cal will this year.

David Robinson played for Navy. Navy has two 6'10" players and a 6'9" player on the roster this year. Air Force has a 6'10" player and a 6'9" player. Army has a 6'10" player and two 6'9" players. Methinks you are wrong about the height limitations.

Knowlton is an abysmal AD. The best AD in AF history is not qualified to be an AD at this institution. He ignored the McKeever situation, hired absolutely the wrong basketball coach, failed to acknowledge that mistake and compounded it horribly by extending a failure. Pawn in the game my ass.
bluesaxe
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SFCityBear said:

Jeff82 said:

The problem was Gardner, who couldn't defend at the point and was a master of the high dribble which got him picked clean fairly regularly.

I kid you not, I saw him play one game, turned to my father and said "That kid is going to be a problem." It was obvious that Gardner and his father thought he was a better player than he was.

We didn't get good until Gardner left (along with Bozeman) and Anwar McQueen went to the point. In truth, Braun's first team (96-97, I think) would have gone to the Final Four had Ed Gray not broken his ankle against Washington State, That team had all the pieces.
Yes, and if Tyrone Wallace and Jabari Bird had not gotten hurt, there are many here who said Cal might have reached the Final Four in 2016. Going back further, if Darrall Imhoff does not get the flu, maybe Cal wins the NCAA Final in 1960. Injuries or illnesses are really critical, more so in modern times, because they occur more frequently now than ever before.
That '97 was better coached and way more experienced, barely lost to N.C. without Gray and the next game would have been against another low seed. There's a much, much better chance that team made it than 2016. 2016 might have made it to the second weekend but then someone would have had a week to prepare to stop that lame offense we ran.
dimitrig
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bearister said:

SFCityBear said:

…The power to change direction lays with Christ….



Something tells me you took those Jesus Super Bowl ads way too seriously.



bluesaxe
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calumnus said:




Yeah, Martin did take a far less talented Tennessee team to the Sweet 16 and it is not like he was good then and forgot offense when he got to Cal. Some really bad luck that year, especially the injuries, but the national publicized sexual harassment scandal announced the day before leaving for the Tournament was unbelievably horrible on the part of our administration. They could not have done worse if they were trying to sabotage the program.
That Tennessee team got by solely on defense and one guy on offense. Martin was so bright offensively that he took Kingsley Okoroh, a huge and not all that mobile man who couldn't shoot outside of five feet, and had him play the high post in a two post offense with Ivan Rabb, a smaller much more mobile man who could shoot the midrange effectively in the low post. And as dumb as that was by itself, it also meant that Ty Jerome, a very effective driver, rarely had any room to do what he was best at. Same with Jaylen Brown, who was best at cutting and taking passes on the way to the hoop but almost never got them.

Yes, that was a terrible week for things going wrong but Martin never was even a decent offensive coach. Four NBA players including the No. 3 pick in the draft and we came in third in conference. Cal was No. 179 in effective field goal percentage that season, and 172 in adjusted offensive efficiency according to KenPom. The year before with much less talent they were 63 in adjusted offensive efficiency under Montgomery. And they were better in adjusted defensive efficiency under Monty his last year as well.
smh
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"He ignored the McKeever situation, hired absolutely the wrong basketball coach, failed to acknowledge that mistake and compounded it horribly by extending a failure"
SFCityBear
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GMP said:

SFCityBear said:

calumnus said:

ducky23 said:

Big C said:

stu said:

Not sure I'd recognize Jerrod Haase.

LOL, Monte Buckly and KJ Roberts wouldn't recognize Jerrod Haase these days.


Bobby Hurley looks exactly the same. He hasn't aged a bit.

All the former players need to write a joint letter to knowlton basically telling him there was once a time that cal basketball was great and that he is single handily ruining the legacy they worked so hard to build.

It's still unclear to me if knowlton really understands what he's doing to cal basketball


Knowlton is a know-nothing. He is a hockey guy. He knows nothing about the revenue sports and probably thinks Cal basketball is just like Air Force basketball where he also sat smiling through 3 years of single digit win seasons doing nothing because, Air Force.
Pickin' cherries. You might have written "single digit CONFERENCE win seasons", to be more accurate. In the 43 years that Air Force has been playing conference basketball, in the WAC or MWC, there have been only 3 Air Force teams to register "double-digit" winning conference seasons.

Overall, Air Force's BB teams under Knowlton's AD tenure won 5, 4, and 6 conference games, averaging 5 wins per year. And in those 43 years, there have been 27 AF teams who racked up fewer than 5 conference wins in a season.

Overall, in the Knowlton era, Air Force won 14, 12, and 12 games in 2016, 2017, and 2018, respectively. In the last 43 seasons, there are only 6 Air Force teams who have won 14 games or more, and only 12 Air Force teams who have won 12 games or more.

Air Force obviously is not a premier college basketball program, or even an average one, with very little success to show for all its years of trying to compete in the sport. There have been a few good players: NBA Coach Greg Popopvich was a star playing for Air Force, and Tom Schneeberger played on the US Olympic team in 1978, and another player made it to the D League and is playing pro in France.

Military Academies are very handicapped when it comes to recruiting. There are height and weight restrictions. The maximum height for a cadet applicant is 6'-8". Entrance requirements are stiffer than Cal's, though Cal's acceptance rate is 11%, Air Force's 10%. A cadet also needs to be nominated by a senator or congressman, I believe. Graduates have been restricted from delaying their military service to turn pro after graduation. In 2019 President Trump issued an order to the Defense Department to rescind this requirement and allow cadets to delay service to play pro ball, but in 2021, the DOD denied a Navy cadet his request to delay service to play pro, and I heard that the DOD is being asked to write new rules rescinding the Trump order.

Knowlton had one of the best records of Air Force ADs as to basketball, and I suspect there was no pressure on him to do more than any AD prior to him. He had a very full plate. Did you know that every single cadet must take PE classes every semester? And did you know every single cadet is required to play a team sport? Either NCAA sports, Club teams, or Intramural teams. Isn't that all voluntary at Cal?

I think Cal hired him to concentrate more on the non-revenue sports, and maybe de-emphasize the revenue sports. Since the latter part of the Waldorf era, with the recruiting scandals, there has been a tug of war between those who want to emphasize academics and those who want to emphasize sports. Throw in Title IX, and the withdrawal of State funding, and you have big problems for any AD. Knowlton is just a pawn in the game, in my opinion. The power to change direction lays with Christ or those above her, the Regents, the Legislature, and the Governor.











You're right. Knowlton is excellent and so is the Cal basketball program.
Not really. I was just thinking with Knowlton, as with Fox, what's the point? Both already have made bad enough records to get fired, so why add misstatements or distortions of their records to your case? Which is what this poster does over and over. Doesn't that weaken or make it seem like the case against either one is not strong enough to stand alone on its own? I guess it is just after writing so many hundreds, and maybe more, words for four long years, to make cases against these two men, it has to be frustrating for him if not even one them is fired. I understand that. I find it all offensive, but maybe worse, it is ineffective. The AD is a person who has the authority to fire the main guy we want removed, so why offend him by personally attacking him? Why go about it like this, with the constant bi*****ing and whining, attacking this guy in a public forum. Get creative about it. Figure out how to get an appointment with him. If UrsaMajor were still here, he used to have lunch regularly with the Chancellor, and it could be done through her. You need to cozy up to either one, and see them face to face. Express your point of view. Find out what their reasons are for keeping Fox around. Convince them, sell them. If that doesn't work, swamp the Ad's office with snail mail, and his residential mail as well Tie up his e-mail with messages, tie up his phone (get a hacker to get his number) Failing that, you can try the Buckley approach, get in his face, but not just one guy, get a group together. If you can't get a bunch of Cal grads together to take action, then you not a true Cal activist. Posting whines on the BI forum is not the way to do this. I'd guess neither one of the objects of the poster's ire even read these forums. He and all of you have a good case, so just organize, plan, and take action. I had a boss once who told me there are two kinds of people in this world: There are those who do the work, and those who criticize the ones who do the work. The critics. So don't be critics, you and the poster, all the posters. Get together and take some action.
SFCityBear
stu
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Quote:

Not really. I was just thinking with Knowlton, as with Fox, what's the point? Both already have made bad enough records to get fired, so why add misstatements or distortions of their records to your case? Which is what this poster does over and over. Doesn't that weaken or make it seem like the case against either one is not strong enough to stand alone on its own? I guess it is just after writing so many hundreds, and maybe more, words for four long years, to make cases against these two men, it has to be frustrating for him if not even one them is fired. I understand that. I find it all offensive, but maybe worse, it is ineffective. The AD is a person who has the authority to fire the main guy we want removed, so why offend him by personally attacking him? Why go about it like this, with the constant bi*****ing and whining, attacking this guy in a public forum. Get creative about it. Figure out how to get an appointment with him. If UrsaMajor were still here, he used to have lunch regularly with the Chancellor, and it could be done through her. You need to cozy up to either one, and see them face to face. Express your point of view. Find out what their reasons are for keeping Fox around. Convince them, sell them. If that doesn't work, swamp the Ad's office with snail mail, and his residential mail as well Tie up his e-mail with messages, tie up his phone (get a hacker to get his number) Failing that, you can try the Buckley approach, get in his face, but not just one guy, get a group together. If you can't get a bunch of Cal grads together to take action, then you not a true Cal activist. Posting whines on the BI forum is not the way to do this. I'd guess neither one of the objects of the poster's ire even read these forums. He and all of you have a good case, so just organize, plan, and take action. I had a boss once who told me there are two kinds of people in this world: There are those who do the work, and those who criticize the ones who do the work. The critics. So don't be critics, you and the poster, all the posters. Get together and take some action.
Wow SFCB, I didn't know you were an activist! And ahead of your time - weren't you finished before Mario Savio?
 
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